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whiteflame
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@Earth
And let’s be clear: I’m not buying the GP is scum argument, not this DP. Pointing out that he chose his target poorly won’t change that. This DP is almost certainly coming down to you or That2 getting lynched, and the longer you delay responding to my questions, the more I’m favoring you.
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@Greyparrot
If you thought WF was a doc, why'd you cop him?
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@whiteflame
And what are your questions?
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@Earth
Here.
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@whiteflame
Where were you during the entirety of DP1 after That2 claimed vanilla?
There? I didn't really care for That2's vanilla claim. I expected as much.

Also, for someone who has a vanilla claim, you were awfully silent during the entire exchange regarding vanillas and That2’s choice to claim in response to RM. Why didn’t you say anything? If you were being cagey about claiming, you would have called That2 out on her choice to claim because it literally did just as much harm as yours would have. If you weren’t actually cagey about it, why didn’t you full claim when you were put under pressure? You clearly didn’t feel that claiming your conspiracy was a problem, so why keep your vanilla claim secret?
I claimed because there was some pressure, but didn't see the need for a full claim.
whiteflame
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@Earth
I asked why you didn't choose to sus That2 at any point over the course of DP1. You didn't like her claim? That makes some sense, given that you've claimed vanilla. What makes a lot less sense is why you only decided to VTL her now, and why the entirety of your sussing of her in DP1 that I can find is this, a post where you barely indicated that you were interested in a VTL, wouldn't commit to it, and didn't explain why you felt that way. Nothing has changed in that reasoning between the last DP and this one, yet this is the first time you've explained any of your reasons for sussing her. Why did you wait, especially since you had information that was relevant to the decision that none of us could possibly have known? Hell, you started off this DP with a VTL on That2. Why didn't you explain your reasoning and out your role then instead of requiring that Pie push you for a role claim?

I'm having a hard time deciding whether all of this is scummy or just anti-town, but your cagey responses to my questions aren't helping your case.

Barney
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@whiteflame
Getting caught up while in line for coffee.

Thanks for saving me! Would have been awkward to replace someone and die that fast.
Barney
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Caught up. Thanks for not making that painful.

This post feels off:

Kinda getting me as scum vibes when I try too hard.
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@Barney
@ILikePie5
Yeah, I know you both have pointed out this post and I get similar vibes from it. The issue I have here is that both Earth and That2 have come off as pretty scummy in this DP. Earth has been evasive, several times just straight up deciding not to answer pertinent questions about his behavior (note as well that he has been online at least once since my last post and has not responded), and That2 has taken the exact opposite tack of being way too detailed and specific in her responses in a way that we've never seen her do before.

Seems pretty obvious at this stage that the vote is between the two of them, it's mainly just a matter of which we choose. We've got time to think this over and I want to take it, given that it's MYLO. It's possible that I'm just agonizing over which of two scum is the better lynch today, but I don't want to take any chances. I do find it odd that Earth put an early vote down on That2 if they are a scum team, though I am having trouble remembering if he has a history of bussing.

Anyway, I'll come back to this tomorrow.
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@whiteflame
Yeah, we’ve got until Saturday. 
That2User
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@Barney
This post feels off:

Kinda getting me as scum vibes when I try too hard.
Pie's accusing me point blank of things I didn't do, I'm defending myself, fearing Pie who is P0E mafia will push a lynch on me when I'm town vanilla with things that I didn't do, I have to disprove them with posts

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@ILikePie5
If you wanted to play a pressure based claim, why did you claim so early? You had like virtually zero votes on you. You agreed to claim when there was sufficient pressure per my strategy. The fact that you claimed right after RMs Vanillaizer claim and him saying there has to be vanillas is very scummy.

Even if you are vanilla, you shouldn’t have claimed, because it gives scum the opportunity to POE the PRs in the game. More of your inexperience, which just solidifies my claim.

What did my vanilla claim P0E PRs? All we had was Vanillaizer and my vanilla claim, 5/7 unclaimed barely P0Es anything- I didn't reveal any PRs, PRs revealed themselves, I even said to WF don't claim, how is this on me? How is me claiming when I did very scummy? I was confirming RM's belief in vanilla's, I believed going with RM's ask in claiming vanilla would help town so I did, why you going against me when I did what I believed was good to do?

But again, you claimed with zero pressure. Just because someone asks you to claim, doesn’t mean you should. This also shows how much you were buddying RM as I pointed out earlier. You claimed eagerly with zero thought. More inexperience.
I claimed with thought, concluding it was a good move going in with RM's plan, tho I was close to holding back, why do you think I didn't give it any thought?

You were following the game the entire time. The only reason you switched was because RM asked you to switch to me. More buddying of RM. Why? 

I hammered Supa because I am a firm believer in information, as I have maintained in all my games. He also seemed super defeatist towards the end and I always had my doubts. If you recall, I mentioned that Supa’s tunneling seems off. Towards the end he because defeatist too.

It’s rather odd that you’re calling me out when you voted Supa for more information as well.
I switched to you because I believed in RM's plan, I didn't buddy RM, I genuinely thought he was onto something DP1, it's likely that you mafia w/ Earth, RM was even right about Supa being innocent. It is true we both voted Supa to get info, I'm specifically calling you out since you said I suddenly switched my vote to Supa when I didn't, I voted to get an info flip out of Supa, you hammering Supa made it impossible to get an info flip out of you like what RM was vying to do last min

At least you admit it. But it’s still very weird
Yes, it is, I semi thought I did, must've failed to follow up

That2User
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@ILikePie5
Also, did y’all notice that That2 brought all the receipts with her? I have never seen her do that, ever, especially in all the Town roles she’s been in.

This just screams scum
I haven't done this with any meta I played, usually I'm elusive af, this indicates nothing, only a new play style, feel I have to when you using me as a scapegoat, fearing you will push to lynch me when saying untrue things, I had to defend myself, disproving you with proof


That2User
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@ILikePie5
But targeting RM/Barney would’ve ensure that you’d be safe. You could argue that I would never have shot my bestie RM.

You couldn’t hit WF because he basically outted Doctor and could possibly self-protect. 

Also, you have yet to answer why Earth would bus me instead of the other way around
I could hit WF, the self protect doesn't matter, that'd be a risk I'd be willing to take, especially if I believed he'd protect RM
It wouldn't ensure I'm safe, I didn't even hit Rm and I'm not safe
Idk why, Earth is inexperienced in your eyes right? Maybe that's why

Look, Ik I look scummy af in your eyes, but I'm engaging with you, I'm not falling off/going dark as I usually do, Ik my play is questionable/new, why am I playing so against my meta now? I'm playing this way to defend myself, I don't want town to fall to mislynching vanilla town
That2User
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@whiteflame
Yeah, I know you both have pointed out this post and I get similar vibes from it. The issue I have here is that both Earth and That2 have come off as pretty scummy in this DP. Earth has been evasive, several times just straight up deciding not to answer pertinent questions about his behavior (note as well that he has been online at least once since my last post and has not responded), and That2 has taken the exact opposite tack of being way too detailed and specific in her responses in a way that we've never seen her do before.

Seems pretty obvious at this stage that the vote is between the two of them, it's mainly just a matter of which we choose. We've got time to think this over and I want to take it, given that it's MYLO. It's possible that I'm just agonizing over which of two scum is the better lynch today, but I don't want to take any chances. I do find it odd that Earth put an early vote down on That2 if they are a scum team, though I am having trouble remembering if he has a history of bussing.

Anyway, I'll come back to this tomorrow.
Take all the time you need, I hope you save me...
That2User
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@Earth
but something struck me DP1.
What struck you?
Earth
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@whiteflame
Take all the time you need, I hope you save me...
This is not town behavior.
That2User
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@whiteflame
That leaves That2, Earth and Pie. My strongest scumread on that group is Earth, given that he's been rather evasive in his responses to me and started a wagon on That2 with almost no reasoning. Still deciding who the likely scum partner is, but unless he starts being quite a bit clearer in his reasoning, Earth will be my VTL after I get home.
Earth failed to give sufficient reasoning why he voted me randomly, Earth is your VTL
Unvote
VTL Earth
That2User
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@Earth
This is not town behavior.
You voting me randomly without reason isn't town behavior
You being elusive to why you voted me isn't town behavior
You failed to give reason why you randomly voted me to WF, why don't you say why?
Tell me, why did you vote me? 
This is town behavior, I'm hoping WF saves me so town doesn't fall to mafia
Earth
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@That2User
No, this is definitely scummy behavior. You sheeping WF is not town lmao.
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Official Vote Count
That2 (1/4) - Earth
Earth (1/4) - That2
Earth
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I am going to be 100% honest and say that if you don't buy into my theory that That2 is scum even just a little after saying "save me" when I am the only person voting her, then I will not respond to your posts at all. It will only waste time.
That2User
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@Earth
No, this is definitely scummy behavior. You sheeping WF is not town lmao.
You being elusive af is not town behavior, you failed to say why you voted me, me questioning you why is sheeping? WF is the most town in my eyes and what's he's asking you about voting me makes sense, WF is asking why you voted me why tf would I not ask the same question?  Why don't you say why you voted me?
That2User
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@Earth
I am going to be 100% honest and say that if you don't buy into my theory that That2 is scum even just a little after saying "save me" when I am the only person voting her, then I will not respond to your posts at all. It will only waste time.
... 
WF said the vote will be between you and me, why wouldn't I? 
That2User
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@Earth
@whiteflame
Earth randomly votes me
WF asks why, I ask why
Earth fails to explain why to WF
Earth fails to explain why to me
Earth says I'm sheeping WF by asking why he voted me
WF says the vote is coming down to me/Earth
I ask WF to save me
Earth says I'm scummy in asking to be saved

How does any of this make sense?
whiteflame
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@Earth
@That2User
Seriously, it's like you're both trying to look sus.

From That2, the "save me" post isn't necessarily scummy, but it's a weird thing to say and seems like an effort to buddy me a bit. In isolation, I might ignore it, but That2 has also been trying to use the fact that she didn't want me to claim as a basis for not sussing her. By that logic, since Pie was the person arguing against mass claiming for almost the entirety of DP1, I shouldn't be sussing him, yet I know that one of the two of you has to be scum. I'm still torn on whether your choice to claim was just sheeping RM in the moment because he demanded it or you acting opportunistically in response to his goading by claiming vanilla after he said that he could confirm the existence of at least one vanilla player.

I will say, though, that what stands out to me more is Earth. He has posted three times, once tagging me, since my last post yesterday. Every post is an attempt to draw attention away from himself instead of explaining his own behavior. I don't view That2's attempts to get Earth to explain his behavior, much of which was directly applicable to That2, as sheeping. Posts like this also stand out, since Earth is essentially saying that he doesn't feel he has to justify his read on That2 prior to the "save me" post and that he feels no need whatsoever to defend himself. Ending with "It will only waste time" is also BS. We've got nothing but time at the moment. We have no reason whatsoever to decide who to lynch early in this DP. The rest of us presumably agree that the choice is simple: That2 or Earth? Yet, Earth himself doesn't seem to recognize that he's one half of that consideration. I briefly looked back through his behaviors in other games when he was town and scum, respectively, and he tends to engage in deflection far more often as scum. He may not always give explanations for why he susses someone, but I can't recall a time where he did anything like this where he just doesn't vote because he doesn't believe there's enough support behind it. Never stopped him before, so why now?

I'm willing to consider changing my vote later, but for now, VTL Earth.
ILikePie5
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@Earth
Honestly we should at least think about how Grey copped a doc claim and not like That2 or me.
I disagree.
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@Earth
There? I didn't really care for That2's vanilla claim. I expected as much.
What do you mean you “expected” as much. Why couldn’t she have been a PR?

I claimed because there was some pressure, but didn't see the need for a full claim.
I thought you signed up for my strategy of not claiming character. Obviously you shouldn’t have full claimed.
ILikePie5
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@whiteflame
Yeah, I know you both have pointed out this post and I get similar vibes from it. The issue I have here is that both Earth and That2 have come off as pretty scummy in this DP.
I agree. Both are scummy. I think both of them are scum, but I’m just more confident that That2 is scum. If one is scum and one isn’t then I think That2 is more likely to be scum just based on DP1 and now DP2 behavior. That just could be bias though because Earth didn’t do much DP1 so there are less points to analyze.

Earth has been evasive, several times just straight up deciding not to answer pertinent questions about his behavior (note as well that he has been online at least once since my last post and has not responded), and That2 has taken the exact opposite tack of being way too detailed and specific in her responses in a way that we've never seen her do before.
Ya, I also don’t think That2 has ever been scum in any game before (don’t quote me on this). It’s a dramatic shift compared to her play as town in every game. 

Seems pretty obvious at this stage that the vote is between the two of them, it's mainly just a matter of which we choose.
I agree, the vote is between the two today.

We've got time to think this over and I want to take it, given that it's MYLO. It's possible that I'm just agonizing over which of two scum is the better lynch today, but I don't want to take any chances.
I agree. I am holding off my vote until there’s a consensus in the off chance scum quickhammer.

I do find it odd that Earth put an early vote down on That2 if they are a scum team, though I am having trouble remembering if he has a history of bussing.
What strikes me as odd is that That2 accused Earth of  bussing me over a single phrase that I hammered Supa. So it’s clear bussing is something That2 has on her mind. 

She has yet to answer why I wouldn’t bus Earth cause I’m the stronger player. With this it’s clear that That2 has a bus in mind with respect to Earth

I think this solidifies my idea that both are scum. It could be that one person has far better PRs compared to the other.


Greyparrot
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it's possible earth and that2 are hard bussing each other.