Why the Christian Bible must be interpreted

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@Stephen

God didn't speak in English, so it's an interpretation, which you quote from to paradoxically prove interpretation invalid.
I see. So all the Bibles ever written in English are invalid, pointless , redundant and have no value whatsoever?

BrotherS.Acolyte, if you had ever listened you would have heard it was my argument that interpretations are valid.

It is BrotherD.CultLeader and yourself who claim not, the very reason your scriptures and interpretations are of no value.

You disprove yourselves CultBrothers.

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#33

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10.04.2023 06:14PM

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@zedvictor4

Just as Bro D can be ignored, so can your guidelines.
But the fact that Bro D can stimulate a response is of some significance.
The forum is an open discussion platform and therefore in the interests of freedom of speech and expression we must tolerate unwanted intrusions into our minds.
Like I said, if you think Bro D's comments are absolutely unworthy, then ignore.
Ignorance is Bliss Tim.

I acknowledge my guidelines are not rules, but it helps me to identify who truly is worth conversing with.

While if it were simply BrotherD.CultLeader and myself, I would ignore him, but he has been deterring others from my productive conversations on DebateArt. For this reason, by announcing a clear and irrefutable post of his core beliefs in the light of logic, others will find his words worthless and no longer be repelled by his repugnant indoctrinated cult atmosphere of paradoxical self-refutation.

#34

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10.04.2023 06:44PM

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@Best.Korea

You are feeding a troll who will do nothing but insult you.
He is not interested in honest debate, nor in any kind of productive conversation.
All he is interested in is writing a wall of insults in a repeating structure to provoke people, and he will never admit that he is wrong.

Well stated.

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#35

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@Stephen

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9932/posts/411454

BrotherS.Acolyte, you are a glutton for humiliation. As I thought, you have nothing left to defend, and therefore you attack others; how pathetic can you get.

Just take a moment to realize you are done, your beliefs have been debunked. You have no more left to quote, and nothing left to claim.

You, BrotherS.Acolyte, have nothing left to follow, but your paradox.

Respond if you need me to repeat myself.

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#36

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@Athias

While if it were simply BrotherD.CultLeader and myself, I would ignore him, but he has been deterring others from my productive conversations on DebateArt. For this reason, by announcing a clear and irrefutable post of his core beliefs in the light of logic, others will find his words worthless and no longer be repelled by his repugnant indoctrinated cult atmosphere of paradoxical self-refutation.

#37

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10.04.2023 06:57PM

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@Critical-Tim

There is no valid interpretation of God's direct words, they are exactly as God intended, literal.

Your claim is paradoxical, self-contradictory, and illogical. Don't try to escape this claim and muddle up the water by simply quoting many scriptures without context or a point to make, as you have done till now.

Athias #16:

You'll find out soon enough, if you haven't already, that their arguments relentlessly consist of quotes taken out of context, and syntactic literalism.

As noble as your pursuit is, honest discourse, or at least the intention to carry one out, must be reciprocated. And it's been my experience that reciprocation is void in discourse with members Stephen and Mr.Brother.D.Thomas. Only you can determine how much more of your energy you willing to let sink in an obviously regressive back-and-forth.

#38

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@Critical-Tim

Tradesecret wrote @Critical-Tim: I am not a fan of the KJV

Tradesecret also wrote:

The Bible is a primary source for me.#28

TheBible is clear from my point of view.#51

I am comfortable with our English bible translators and their attempts to convey the right balance as they understand it.#39

I hear god's word primarily through scripture whether it's being read or preached Ihave never had a personal communication from God without theScriptures being involved #36

The authors in the bible are pretty clear about what they want to communicate.#62

Every word of God remains flawless#49

Well, I for one, do not believe that the bible is ambiguous at all. It is clear. Crystal clear in fact.#55

In my view, the Bible is the best source for understanding the reason for the existence of the Sabbath. #38

My view is that the bible is written by fallible men but that it is also breathed out by an infallible God. Like Jesus - it is both divine and human. The infallible God used fallible men to write his word to us - using their fallible tools and minds but nevertheless speaking the mind and word of God.
Hence the bible is both infallible and inerrant.  It is divine and totally perfect. It is its own measuring tool - making it inerrant. #9

The Bible is a book that reflects life in all of its glory.  It does not hide the messiness of life. It is a very real book and sometimes hard book. I think that adds to its character and integrity. I cannot say I hate discussing any passage - because from my perspective all of it is relevant and useful.#3

Itis more correct that the Bible is used by God as a tool to bring about change in us. Its main goal is to proclaim theglory of God, yet, it also has other goals which ought not bedismissed. #2

"I am no fan of the KJV bible" he says. I see. Ok.

Stephen wrote : And the Reverend Tradesecret adds this beauty:

I have never believed in religion. Religion ought to be abolished from my point of view.#52

THIS! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from the person that also claims to be paid by Universities to teach and tutor on religious matters to hundreds of university students, which must include BIBLE (written in ENGLISH) study in one form or another. Is a Chaplain to his countries Armed Forces and is also a Pastor#20 that preaches to a congregation of over "300 worshipers" every Sunday.

Yes, indeed all of this contradictory BS from the contradictory Reverend clown that also tells us:

God moved in me and I was compelled to believe and now I am totally sold on him. It was not an experience - it was simply that he moved and I responded. And then the Spirit of God worked in my heart.#50

Idid not choose God. He chose me. TheGod of the Bible chose me to be his #31

I did not choose my religion. God chose me. I did not have the capacity or the ability to reject him. He outsmarted me. And now I am sold on him. #48

But s/he says "religion should be banned" and that he is "no fan of the KJV bible"!

you are a glutton for humiliation

If anyone has been humiliated on this rather interesting thread it is the Reverend Tradesecret and by his own hand. So lets keep it civil. I haven't insulted you.

God didn't speak in English, so it's an interpretation, which you quote from to paradoxically prove interpretation invalid.

I see. So all the Bibles ever written in English are invalid, pointless , redundant and have no value whatsoever?
if you had ever listened you would have heard it was my argument that interpretations are valid.

I see. So why even mention the language that god didn't speak in?

OK. Can you tell me what language "god" did speak in, when he spoke to Adam, Eve and Abram all those years ago in Mesopotamia?

your beliefs have been debunked.

Have they? Which ones and debunked by whom?

how pathetic can you get.

Lets keep it civil. I haven't insulted or attacked you.

#39

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9913/posts/411081

10.04.2023 09:35PM

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@Stephen

@Critical-Tim

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Critical_Tim, who is on record in calling Jesus a LIAR as God because of His literal words, and is vying to be as Bible Stupid as Miss Tradesecret, and was obviously sent to this Religion Forum from Satan himself to disrupt Jesus’ true literal words within the scriptures, and now calls Peter a LIAR, and as explicitly shown, wants to be this Religion Forum's funny comedian because of his Devil Speak in reinterpreting Jesus' LITERAL words that are laughter at its best, and now is the "king of ungodly circular reasoning," and a RUNAWAY from Jesus' direct LITERAL words within the scriptures that I posed to him!

Oh my, not only are you a comedian in trying to reinterpret the DIRECT LITERAL WORDS of Jesus inspired verses, but now you are the king of ungodly circular reasoning! When will your talents ever stop? LOL!

Lets relive your first comedy act on this Religion Forum in my post #33 below, shall we? Of course, where your outlandish comedy routine to said verse started to make the TRUE Christians laugh wholeheartedly as shown herewith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-CqFh7xvDQ

THE JESUS PASSAGE CRITICAL-TIM CHERRY-PICKED: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

THE COMEDIC RESPONSE BY CRITICAL-TIM TO SAID PASSAGE ABOVE:

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9913/posts/411084

“I researched the verse to verify your words:

This is a verse from the Gospel of Luke, where Jesus is teaching about the cost of being his disciple. He says: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple."

This verse may seem shocking or confusing at first, but the key to understanding this verse is to realize that Jesus is using a figure of speech called hyperbole. Hyperbole is when you exaggerate something to make a point or emphasize a contrast. For example, if you say “I’m so hungry I could eat a horse”, you don’t literally mean that you want to eat a horse. You are just expressing how hungry you are………..”

OMG, ROFLOL!!!!!!!! …………Give me a minute to compose myself ………”cough” ………… uhhhhhhh …………., deep breath ……… okay, after reading your superfluous comedy in your statement above with YOUR SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION of said passage away from its LITERAL WORDS, I had to again get a Kleenex to wipe the tears of laughter from my eyes!!!

Critical-Tim, you are truly a Comedy Guru when it comes to trying to reinterpret scripture away from its obvious LITERAL meaning!

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE LIKE "CRITICAL-TIM” THAT WANTS TO STEP FORTH AND INSIDIOUSLY TRY TO REINTERPRET LITERAL SPOKEN WORDS OF JESUS, THAT CAN MAKE US LAUGH EVEN HARDER? LOL!

.

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#40

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@Stephen

BrotherS.Acolyte, have nothing left to follow but your paradox.

Cited: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9932/posts/411441

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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas

BrotherD.CultLeader, it is as I said: Don't try to escape this claim and muddle up the water by simply quoting many scriptures without context or a point to make, as you have done till now. You are out of rope, as it all comes down to this simple point: you contradict yourself.

Simply put, you cannot claim all interpretations are invalid and base the source of your claim on that very interpretation.

Cited: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9932/posts/411441

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#42

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@Athias

I don't plan on this going on until they agree, after all, they will never admit to logic. I just wanted to make a fully comprehensive post that I can provide a link to in the future when he tries to disrupt my discussions. He will never accept rationality, but the people I converse with will find his case laughable and disregard his words, continuing our conversation, and that is all that matters. Therefore, I no longer need to discuss with him.

I'd like to start another topic now that this one has finished. Perhaps you have some interesting philosophy suggestions?

#43

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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE LIKE "CRITICAL-TIM”

Well Brother D. I am still waiting for "Critical -Tim" to tell us why the bible "Must be interpreted"? As in the title for his own thread.

Critical -Tim wrote: Why the Christian Bible must be interpreted.

Instead, he appears to be attempting to drag me into an ongoing spat he has with yourself and before I had even made a post on this thread. I have only asked a question or two and he has resorted to calling me "pathetic" for no reason that I can think of?

Also I find very odd that he has told me that " all of my beliefs have been debunked"#35 . This is strange considering he has only been a member here for 5 months and of his 24 threads has only contributed three threads in the religion forum with only a single one of those dedicated to Christianity; this thread.

One could be forgiven if they thought "Critical - Tim" had been here for years. I mean, has he read all of my 200 threads in the religion forum?

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE LIKE "CRITICAL-TIM”

There could well be, Brother D.

#44

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@Critical-Tim

All your beliefs have been debunked.

Have they? Which ones and debunked by whom?

how pathetic can you get.

Lets keep it civil. I haven't insulted or attacked you.

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9932/posts/411441

10.04.2023 10:34PM

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@Stephen

@Critical-Tim

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Critical_Tim, who is on record in calling Jesus a LIAR as God because of His literal words, and is vying to be as Bible Stupid as Miss Tradesecret, and was obviously sent to this Religion Forum from Satan himself to disrupt Jesus’ true literal words within the scriptures, and now calls Peter a LIAR, and as explicitly shown, wants to be this Religion Forum's funny comedian because of his Devil Speak in reinterpreting Jesus' LITERAL words that are laughter at its best, and now is the "king of ungodly circular reasoning," and a RUNAWAY from Jesus' direct LITERAL words within the scriptures that I posed to him!

Oh, oh, in your feeble post #35 AGAIN, you are trying so hard to come up with coherent excuses to blatantly RUN AWAY FROM MY FOLLOWING POSTS TO YOU that you cannot even come close to addressing in the links below!!!!:

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9913/posts/411420
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9913/posts/411421

I GOT IT! It is very obvious that you went to Miss Tradesecrets school of: "How to RUN AWAY from LITERAL disturbing Bible passages!"

Through my clandestine secret connections, shhhhhhh ...., I found this information on Miss Tradesecrets class above where she gives instructions to her equally dumbfounded pseudo-christians like you in how to RUN AWAY from LITERAL Bible passages that you can't answer like you've done with me in this thread alone! LOL!

MISS TRADESECRET'S SCHOOL OF HOW TO RUN AWAY FROM DISTURBING LITERAL BIBLE PASSAGES:

Hello, my name is Miss Tradesecret, and I want to teach you how to run away from those damn disturbing bible LITERAL FACTS and do it with ease.
Are you embarrassed like I am by Atheists and TRUE Christians like Brother D. Thomas knowing more about the Bible than we will ever learn in our lifetime? Well, fret no more, I will teach you how to run away from these people and still have a modicum of respect to your fellow Christian that is as inept of the Bible as we are!

No more embarrassments!
No more making up child-like excuses!
No more making yourself look like a Bible fool anymore!
No more posting non sequiturs and circular reasoning in trying to run away when we can’t address a disturbing Bible literal narrative or verse!

1. You’ll learn how to change topics at will in the middle of a thread to try and save face!
2. You’ll learn to use apologetics and hermeneutics to spin doctor disturbing LITERAL passages away!
3. You will learn to blame the Atheist or fellow pseudo-christian for not interpreting the bible correctly, no matter what division of the faith they represent!
4. You will be taught all about “red herrings” and “non sequiturs” when the going gets tough!
5. Although being silent shows weakness, you will learn that Proverbs 17:28 is your best friend! “Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent, and discerning if they hold their tongues.”
6. You will learn that it is better just to STFU if an Atheist or TRUE Christian like Brother D. Thomas is owning you on a particular literal biblical proposition! (This one is my favorite)

Contact me directly here on this forum through message for pricing, availability, and class times on Skype so you too will save what face you have left here on DEBATEART Religion Forum!

Remember, our theme song is "Runaway" by Del Shannon, praise!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSWMJxbxj7c

Miss Tradesecret

.

#46

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@Critical-Tim

All your beliefs have been debunked.

Have they? Which ones and debunked by whom?

Cited debunk: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9932/posts/411441

There is no debunking of my beliefs cited there I'm afraid, Critical-Tim. Just by you stating that "all my beliefs have been debunked" without proof or evidence is not debunking my beliefs. Could you offer an example. I would be very interested to see one.

It appears to me that it is you that is not interested in any type of serious discussion. I have asked you questions in relation to your own comments and you have simply avoided them ever single time. Why is that?

how pathetic can you get.

Lets keep it civil. I haven't insulted or attacked you.

#47

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10.04.2023 11:03PM

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@n8nrgim

@Critical-Tim

n8nrgim wrote ; it's obvious the bible needs interpreted
Critical-Tim wrote; I agree, but it is[....................] Stephen that insist otherwise.

Can you show me where have I done that?

#48

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10.04.2023 11:54PM

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@Stephen

.

Stephen,

WOW, the dummy of the Bible Critical-Tim is sure getting known for his bad mouthing members! As we know, that is the ploy of truly Bible Stupid pseudo-christians like Critical-Tim because it is supposed to take the limelight off of his outright Bible Stupidity in a "look over here notion!" LOL! What's new in this respect? NOTHING!

Critical-Tim is up to 9 RUN AWAY GRADE SCHOOL RESPONSES towards not being able to address my godly posts to him, and in his own thread that he made just for me! Isn't that cute of him? :) Remember, the record for RUN AWAY RESPONSES in a thread, is 12 made by the #1 Bible Fool Miss Tradesecret, therefore, Critical-Tim has only 4 more to go to beat her out of this prestigious situation here at DEBATEART Religion Forum!

.

#49

Sidewalker

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Sidewalker

10.05.2023 01:08AM

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The Bible is a book that includes history and prophecy,poetry and love songs, allegories and parables, none of which is conducive anykind of "literal" translation.

Language is a cultural phenomenon and because cultures are so different,individual languages classify things and ideas very differently. Everything wehave that talks about what Jesus actually said was originally written in KoineGreek decades later, even if we had the original texts written by the Gospelwriters, which we don’t, they would only be a rough translation of Aramaic intoKoine Greek. Different languages usedifferent words, syntax and grammatical structures and therefore there is nosuch thing as a “literal” or “word for word” translation from one language toanother, especially when you translate Aramaic to Koine Greek because they arevery different languages with very different sets of words, grammaticalstructures and syntax. The point being that every language has rules and therules are very different in Aramaic, Koine Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and English,which is a rough approximation of the journey that had to be taken to arrive atan English translation of the Bible.

Aramaic is a rich, poetic language that utilizes a web ofconstellated meanings to represent ideas. Jesus "spoke as no man hadspoken before", and he spoke as "One who knows". The language heused was polyphonic, poetic, and profoundly imaginative. He used his words toinspire and initiate, to involve the listener and to transmit complex ideasthrough imagery. He taught the truth of the Kingdom mainly in parables, whichis an "invitational" form of speech that stimulates the imaginationand needs to be completed in the mind and heart of the listener. The spokenlanguage of Jesus was originally meant to resonate on many different levels tobring about a synthesis of mind, heart, and soul. This is why Jesus wasinviting His listeners to seek the “Kingdom within”, it is why he spoke of hisFather’s house having “many mansions”, and it is why he used rich imagery andmetaphors when he spoke.

The strictly modern and very Western idea of the precisionof words and our desire for exact, literal interpretations of language wouldhave been a completely foreign concept to Jesus and the idea of having hiswords put into written form and taken literally could not have even been aconsideration to him. The point beingthat we cannot confuse the words and the language with the reality and truththat they were intended to represent symbolically.

The simple fact is, there is no such thing as a “literal”translation of the Bible, any contention that there is a "literal" translation is an ignorant, meaningless statement.

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#50

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@Stephen

Are you not a member of the cult? https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9913/posts/411304

My citation not only concisely proves that not only are all Bibles interpretations of God's words without a God given dictionary, but also that believing in the interpreted Bible as evidence that all interpretations are invalid is paradoxical. We cannot continue without this fact acknowledged.

Interpretations are valid, or the Bible isn't: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9932/posts/411441

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#51

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@Stephen

In regard to your comment that my remark of you being pathetic is inappropriate. My impression was that, following my presentation of a definitive proof concerning the logical paradox, your subsequent comment seemed more like an extended inquiry from an uninvolved party member. It appeared as though you were attempting to divert the conversation, potentially with the intention of causing harm to others' reputations, before eventually acknowledging the dismantling of the cult's logic. Instead of addressing my logical points or concluding the discussion, it seemed like you were letting go of your defense and resorting to a kind of lashing out, which I saw as appropriately labeled as a pathetic action, assuming you read the comment, disagree, and wanted to unproductively criticize a disengaged member.

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#52

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@Stephen

I will be straightforward with you.

I don't like having negative conversations with anyone and try to never offend anyone.

I believe that every perspective adds light to help in gaining comprehension.

I cannot tolerate chaos like that of BrotherD.CultLeader who speaks logical paradoxes and disrespects my productive fellow members.

This chaos creates a disharmony that I and others cannot ignore.

If we can agree on common logic and mutual respect, I will answer any questions; but if we cannot agree that it has been proven that an only literal interpretation of the Bible is a logical paradox, then we have nothing more to discuss.

#53

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@Critical-Tim

I'm not certain what Bro D's core beliefs are.

Though they seemingly have an operating strategy.

if you have identified them as not worthy, then that should be the mental battle won.

But if you continue to fret about their presence then their strategy is winning.

You see:

Repugnant indoctrinated cult atmosphere of paradoxical self-refutation.

That's inside your head and therefore self-defeating.

Whereas I just inwardly smile.

#54

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10.05.2023 07:56AM

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@Critical-Tim

#50

Are you not a member of the cult?

Not unless you are suggesting atheism is now a cult. I would have thought that in my case I would be deemed a heretic, considering that I believe much of the bible and that all of it's characters there- in existed. I simply do not believe the bible in the state it has come down and preached to us over the millennia. I believe that there is another story below the surface.; which is simply my own opinion. Are you denying me an opinion, Critical -Tim?

My citation not only concisely proves that not only are all Bibles interpretations of God's words without a God given dictionary, but also that believing in the interpreted Bible as evidence that all interpretations are invalid is paradoxical. We cannot continue without this fact acknowledged.
interpretations are valid, or the Bible isn't:

Well that is your opinion and may be worth exploring. It would be better than simply calling me "pathetic" for simply posing question that have arisen from your own comments and accusations directed at me personally, don't you think?

#51

In regard to your comment that my remark of you being pathetic is inappropriate.

Indeed it was. You had no grounds for that insult whatsoever. What was pathetic about asking you what language you believe god spoke in considering that it was you that claimed god didn't speak English? It was you that introduced language - "god's language" - into this thread - your own thread. It wasn't me, was it?

My impression was that, following my presentation of a definitive proof concerning the logical paradox, your subsequent comment seemed more like an extended inquiry from an uninvolved party member.

I am going to assume that by stating "an uninvolved party member" you are referring to the Reverend Tradsecret- please correct me if I am wrong.

If this is the case then you would be wrong to say he is "uninvolved" in this thread. In fact he was the second person to respond to you at post #4 and at some length too, in which he clearly states to you directly that - "I am not a fan of the KJV". Of course I had shown that his comment not to be truthful and I did so here at post #27.

It's all very well you getting annoyed with me and insulting me on behalf of others, but I presented evidence that shows the Reverend Tradesecret to be a contradictory lying clown at the best of times -if not all the time. Are you telling me that I shouldn't call out lies and contradictions when they arise?

It appeared as though you were attempting to divert the conversation, potentially with the intention of causing harm to others' reputations,[.......]lashing out [.....] wanted to unproductively criticize a disengaged member.

Well you were totally wrong. I knew perfectly well that you had been lied to and sought to correct it. If any good came from it , it is that you know what you are up against when engaging a compulsive liar and contradictory clown such as the Reverend Tradesecret.

#52

I don't like having negative conversations with anyone and try to never offend anyone.

Can you give me and example where it is that I have engaged YOU negatively?

I believe that every perspective adds light to help in gaining comprehension.

I agree. But you are the one that has weighed into me with nothing but "negativity" simply for posing questions to you that have arisen from your own statements and comment.

And lets not forget it is you that has claimed "all my beliefs have been debunked" . without even reading what it is I have had to say in the past with over some 200 threads in the religion forum alone. This doesn't appear to be you wanting to "gain comprehension", or "perspective" or adding any of "the light" that you seem to be seeking, does it, Critical- Tim? No, in my case you have simply dismissed out of hand without even reading what my own "perspective is or has been.

I cannot tolerate chaos like that of BrotherD.CultLeader who speaks logical paradoxes and disrespects my productive fellow members.
This chaos creates a disharmony that I and others cannot ignore.

So you are now discussing the Brother, Why?

The Brother is what he is. I am not his keeper nor am I his "acolyte". And he can handle his own corner from a biblical perspective and does it with excellence in my opinion. And speaking from my perspective I have found him to truthful and honest from my own experience and he will admit when he is wrong and is not embarrassed to admit that he cannot answer a question when he can't. Ans what is more impotent to me, he perfectly understand that the bible does hold mind-numbing " axioms".

If we can agree on common logic and mutual respect, I will answer any questions. ....logical paradox.

I have no problems with that. But lets not forget, I haven't disrespected you at all in the first place.

So. To me and from my own studies there are clearly parts of the bible to be taken literally and others that clearly not, in my own opinion, Do you agree?

OK , before we go back to my earlier questions, could you give me your definition "common logic" please?

And what is your "other" religion as per your profile?

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@Stephen

Like there were Norse Warriors who invaded the British isles.

But I don't suppose That Odin and Thor were watching over them.

But of course I can't prove that.

Just in case, watch out for blokes with long blond hair carrying hammers.

Apart from that, I think that us and the Norse have moved on.

Well, there's been a few fish related skirmishes.

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@Critical-Tim

Can I ask what you mean by "interpreted"?

It means wildly different things for us Christians depending on the tradition you're in.

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@Best.Korea

Its actually a common troll tactic

SHUT UP TROLL 😂 (sarcasm)

Topic's author

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@Stephen

Are you not a member of the cult?
Not unless you are suggesting atheism is now a cult. I would have thought that in my case I would be deemed a heretic, considering that I believe much of the bible and that all of it's characters there- in existed. I simply do not believe the bible in the state it has come down and preached to us over the millennia. I believe that there is another story below the surface.; which is simply my own opinion. Are you denying me an opinion, Critical -Tim?

Only if it's an illogical paradox that is made to stir up chaos so I cannot have productive conversations with other members, such as BrotherD.CultLeader, who has made not one appropriate comment and remained of topic: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9913-everything-about-buddhism

My citation not only concisely proves that not only are all Bibles interpretations of God's words without a God given dictionary, but also that believing in the interpreted Bible as evidence that all interpretations are invalid is paradoxical. We cannot continue without this fact acknowledged.
interpretations are valid, or the Bible isn't:
Well that is your opinion and may be worth exploring. It would be better than simply calling me "pathetic" for simply posing question that have arisen from your own comments and accusations directed at me personally, don't you think?

It is not my opinion that I'm correct in pointing out the paradox, it simply is. Pathetic was not because you believe in the paradox, but because you ignored acknowledging it and went on the offensive. I acknowledge you claim your comment was justified as pointing the flaw in another, but I say one who's stance has been discredited hasn't the right to do so. I used the word accurate to the definition: arousing pity, especially through vulnerability or sadness.

In regard to your comment that my remark of you being pathetic is inappropriate.
Indeed it was. You had no grounds for that insult whatsoever. What was pathetic about asking you what language you believe god spoke in considering that it was you that claimed god didn't speak English? It was you that introduced language - "god's language" - into this thread - your own thread. It wasn't me, was it?

It doesn't matter what language he speaks only that it is not the one written in the Bible believed to be the only valid interpretation. Though, since you insist for reasons that escape me, the main three languages are Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek.

My impression was that, following my presentation of a definitive proof concerning the logical paradox, your subsequent comment seemed more like an extended inquiry from an uninvolved party member.
I am going to assume that by stating "an uninvolved party member" you are referring to the Reverend Tradsecret- please correct me if I am wrong.
If this is the case then you would be wrong to say he is "uninvolved" in this thread. In fact he was the second person to respond to you at post #4 and at some length too, in which he clearly states to you directly that - "I am not a fan of the KJV". Of course I had shown that his comment not to be truthful and I did so here at post #27.
It's all very well you getting annoyed with me and insulting me on behalf of others, but I presented evidence that shows the Reverend Tradesecret to be a contradictory lying clown at the best of times -if not all the time. Are you telling me that I shouldn't call out lies and contradictions when they arise?

Everyone has their due time in the spotlight, it was your turn.

It appeared as though you were attempting to divert the conversation, potentially with the intention of causing harm to others' reputations,[.......]lashing out [.....] wanted to unproductively criticize a disengaged member.

Well you were totally wrong. I knew perfectly well that you had been lied to and sought to correct it. If any good came from it, it is that you know what you are up against when engaging a compulsive liar and contradictory clown such as the Reverend Tradesecret. #52

I have had almost no discussions with Tradesecret due to the interjections by BrotherD.CultLeader.

I don't like having negative conversations with anyone and try to never offend anyone.
Can you give me an example where it is that I have engaged YOU negatively?

It was the moment you chose to ignore sound reasoning: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9913/posts/411304

I believe that every perspective adds light to help in gaining comprehension.
I agree. But you are the one that has weighed into me with nothing but "negativity" simply for posing questions to you that have arisen from your own statements and comment. And lets not forget it is you that has claimed "all my beliefs have been debunked" . without even reading what it is I have had to say in the past with over some 200 threads in the religion forum alone. This doesn't appear to be you wanting to "gain comprehension", or "perspective" or adding any of "the light" that you seem to be seeking, does it, Critical- Tim? No, in my case you have simply dismissed out of hand without even reading what my own "perspective is or has been.

I you agree with BrotherD.CultLeader, as in the above link, then the foundation of only literal interpretations has been debunked.

I cannot tolerate chaos like that of BrotherD.CultLeader who speaks logical paradoxes and disrespects my productive fellow members.
This chaos creates a disharmony that I and others cannot ignore.
So you are now discussing the Brother, Why?
The Brother is what he is. I am not his keeper nor am I his "acolyte". And he can handle his own corner from a biblical perspective and does it with excellence in my opinion. And speaking from my perspective I have found him to truthful and honest from my own experience and he will admit when he is wrong and is not embarrassed to admit that he cannot answer a question when he can't. Ans what is more impotent to me, he perfectly understand that the bible does hold mind-numbing " axioms".

This is where our discussion ends because even now you cannot see his claims are a logical paradox: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9932/posts/411441

I would take more time to explain, but I know with everyone else agreeing with the post that I have made my point clear.

If we can agree on common logic and mutual respect, I will answer any questions. ....logical paradox.
I have no problems with that. But lets not forget, I haven't disrespected you at all in the first place.
So. To me and from my own studies there are clearly parts of the bible to be taken literally and others that clearly not, in my own opinion, Do you agree?
OK , before we go back to my earlier questions, could you give me your definition "common logic" please?
And what is your "other" religion as per your profile?

You disrespected me when you associated yourself with BrotherD.CultLeader and claimed there was no logical paradox. Debate members are to treat each other as rational and logical members, you have acted as if I have no brain by claiming there is no logical paradox. It's you and BrotherD.CultLeader against the world.

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