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Click this link to create your own version of DEBATEART.COM (well, the forum section at least).
YOU CAN SET THE AGENDA.
YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT THE RULES ARE.
YOU CAN DECIDE WHO TO INVITE AND WHO TO IGNORE.
IT'S THE EASIEST THING YOU'VE EVER DONE IN YOUR LIFE.
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@Athias
That means your premise must demonstrate independence from one's mind
SOLVE ET COAGULA
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@ebuc
Yeah.
But what's it like to be a brain in a vat.
When the body is no longer transmitting telemetry.
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@RationalMadman
Yes.
They're called, "system status feedback and monitoring loops".
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@ebuc
imagine your body is a robot.
imagine your robot-body is remote controlled by a brain in a vat.
your "reality" is the robot-body and robot-body interactions with other robot-bodies remotely controlled by other brains in other vats.
what's it like to be a brain in a vat?
well,
it's difficult to describe.
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@zedvictor4
At the end of the proverbial day, there is One World and One People....All full of expectancy, and all feeling let down and blaming others.
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@ebuc
3} is black market irrelevant to the above?
99% of the "black market" is controlled by the same people who control the USD$.
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@ebuc
2} does you above apply to other messages of exchange ex bitcoin etc,
bitcoin is generated by a perfectly TRANSPARENT AND procrustean calculation.
USD$ is generated ad-hoc by an opaque cabal of self-interested individuals.
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@ebuc
1} that control varies fro 20 differrent nations?..ergo no global control,
about 80% of global trade is denominated in USD$.
the remaining 20% is fractionalized, greatly diminishing the "power" of those nations.
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@zedvictor4
Are there actually controllers, or is everyone a part of a system.
it's a matter of scale.
is it more logical to "blame" the homeless and or the immigrants for "the problems of society"?
or is it more logical to "blame" the people who monopolize "legitimate" use of bullets and prisons?
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@Benjamin
According to quantum mechanics, no two particles can occupy the same quanta (read: space). Since there is a finite and not an infinite amount of space in your brain, there is in fact a finite potential for memory, since information can't be stored without particles to record it. However, this theoretical limit is not important in practice. Your brain basically sorts out the important information and forget the non-important information. Your brain would also collapse into a black whole if you started to approach the quantum density limit.
Well stated.
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@ebuc
Is it "control", I think of it more of global 'function' of trade.
YES. THOSE WHO ARE "AUTHORIZED" TO PRINT MONEY HAVE CONTROL.
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@zedvictor4
Think about it.....Money is a make believe system of global control.
Well stated.
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@Benjamin
These questions sure are thought-provoking. If anyone has an opinion, please explain to me what "I" is and how you answer these questions regarding its nature.
The Classical Problem of Identity.
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@fauxlaw
According to the laws of thermodynamics.
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@fauxlaw
Did I not say in my #28 "...so, they, too, are on that path of wish > hope > plan > execute > fail > revise plan > succeed > revise plan > improve > revise plan > achieve a perfect light?"
The "choice" to continue to gather and process information is not the same as "choosing" to "do something you have no concept of".
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@fauxlaw
your memory is estimated to be roughly 2.4 petabytes.Yes, but is that the max potential volume, or merely current state? I suspect the latter, since I am still learning and creating memory.
There is a "hard" upper-limit.
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@fauxlaw
Those who cannot, by some flaw in the mortal construct of reproduction, and will not have children in mortality, if they prove obedient to God, becoming gods themselves, will have perfect bodies in the resurrection,
Ok, so, is your "god" a boy or a girl?
And, do you need BOTH a boy "god" and a girl "god" to make sweet sweet love in order to make new baby "gods"?
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@fauxlaw
So, your (eternal) mind is not yet "eternal", but at some point in the future will be "frozen"?Does this mean you will no longer be able to learn anything?No, my mind is in progress within an eternal existence, a progression that is, itself, eternal. Eternal, being of its own nature, would indicate that knowledge, and the ability to acquire it, is also eternal.
Are you suggesting that your "mind" is constantly changing?
Wouldn't this mean your "identity" is constantly changing?
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@fauxlaw
Bearing children in heaven seems pointless.Perpetuation. I believe that as man is, God once was, and that as God is, man may become, and that this sets up just two generations that are exemplary of infinite generations wherein gods beget men, men become gods, and so on. eternally.
So, heaven babies would be more like baby gods and less like human babies?
Sort of like a cosmic terrarium?
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@fauxlaw
I am free [I do not have restrictions to achieve] and I will to make my plans happen as planned. Thus, free will allows my ambition, planning and execution;
You do have SOME restrictions.
Some of them are purely physical.
For example, your memory is estimated to be roughly 2.4 petabytes.
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@fauxlaw
By that logic, were I Thomas Edison, I therefore cannot conceive of a light bulb, let alone invent it.
#1 Thomas Edison did NOT invent the light bulb.
More than 150 years ago, inventors began working on a bright idea that would have a dramatic impact on how we use energy in our homes and offices. This invention changed the way we design buildings, increased the length of the average workday and jumpstarted new businesses. It also led to new energy breakthroughs -- from power plants and electric transmission lines to home appliances and electric motors.
Like all great inventions, the light bulb can’t be credited to one inventor. It was a series of small improvements on the ideas of previous inventors that have led to the light bulbs we use in our homes today.
Long before Thomas Edison patented -- first in 1879 and then a year later in 1880 -- and began commercializing his incandescent light bulb, British inventors were demonstrating that electric light was possible with the arc lamp. In 1835, the first constant electric light was demonstrated, and for the next 40 years, scientists around the world worked on the incandescent lamp, tinkering with the filament (the part of the bulb that produces light when heated by an electrical current) and the bulb’s atmosphere (whether air is vacuumed out of the bulb or it is filled with an inert gas to prevent the filament from oxidizing and burning out). These early bulbs had extremely short lifespans, were too expensive to produce or used too much energy. [LINK]
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@fauxlaw
Strictly as a comparison of solipsism to the idea that God is everything, I suppose there is that suggestion,
Perhaps "your mind" (or should i say, "my mind") is merely a shard (fraction) of the one-true "god mind".
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@fauxlaw
C: The conclusion of your syllogism, therefore, the entire syllogism, therefore, as most tend to do, fails.
Your critique is begging for a rigorous definition of "free" and "will" and "free-will".
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@fauxlaw
P2 fails because one has an array of choices not necessarily ever embarked upon and experienced before. I have the choice to begin smoking; something I have never done before; totally lacking that choice and experience.
Your experiences have INFLUENCED your knowledge of concepts such as "smoking".
Without your experiences, you would have no KNOWLEDGE.
And you cannot INTENTIONALLY (willfully) "choose" something you have no concept of.
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@fauxlaw
P1 fails because one can choose to not change one's future, i.e., choose to not choose; to remain static.
Impossible. Can you choose to stop your heart-beat? Can you stop the rotation of the planet?
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@Benjamin
Unless there is some inherent randomness in how the present affects the future
Hypothetical "randomness" violates "free-will".
In a perfectly deterministic framework, what exactly is your "will" "free" from?
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@fauxlaw
I'M NOT SURE "GENETIC INTENT" IS AN ACCURATE CHARACTERIZATION.As defined by admittedly generational sequences of DNA in a single mortal human lifetime, yes, it is accurate enough, allowing for its potential to mutate [by gradual telomeric degradation, among other effects] with each cellular generation, which, according to some biologists, in the human species, are completely re-generated every 7 years. Whatever your mortal life duration will be, divided by seven, is the number of times you will have become a new person, biologically, long-term memory notwithstanding.
Yeah, also, not every human is "destined" to become a breeder.
And yet, strangely, they're still considered human.
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@fauxlaw
HAVE YOU EVER CHANGED YOUR (ETERNAL) MIND?In it's current, mortal 'containment" phase, when I am not yet aware of all things, of course I have. many times, in fact.
So, your (eternal) mind is not yet "eternal", but at some point in the future will be "frozen"?
Does this mean you will no longer be able to learn anything?
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@fauxlaw
HOW MANY BABIES DO YOU HAVE WHEN YOU'RE IN HEAVEN?I don't know. Not there, yet.
Bearing children in heaven seems pointless.
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@fauxlaw
Do you think that perhaps the idea that everything is god might be compatible with solipsism?
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@fauxlaw
This also accounts for the fact that the intent of genetic pairing of m/f gametes is strictly a male or female zygote. Intent is not the same as actual outcome. Meiosis can result in a gamete mutation affecting the resulting zygote from either meiotic sperm or ovum, but this is, after all, mutation, and not genetic intent.
I'M NOT SURE "GENETIC INTENT" IS AN ACCURATE CHARACTERIZATION.
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@fauxlaw
I disagree. The mind, which I equate to the spirit, is an eternal form that preceded neurology, or, in fact, any physical and mortal property whatsoever.
HAVE YOU EVER CHANGED YOUR (ETERNAL) MIND?
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@fauxlaw
Just another point on which we disagree. It's allowed. However, since I am convinced the spirit is the part of us that continues beyond death and ultimately is resurrected into a new, perfect, and eternal physical body to which the spirit [whereas, for now, death is just the last enemy] is permanently fused, never to separate again, I prefer my version of the hereafter.
HOW MANY BABIES DO YOU HAVE WHEN YOU'RE IN HEAVEN?
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@Benjamin
Of course, there are 7 billion versions of human DNA. However, there are only two human genders.
IF YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF REPLICATION, ARE YOU NOT CONSIDERED HUMAN?
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@fauxlaw
and it does not take long for the delusional solipsists to go after God, the creation, the universe, etc,
Are you familiar with "Ethica Ordine Geometrico Demonstrata"?
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@fauxlaw
Who cares if the cosmos is "eternal" or "temporary"?
Please explain how this relates to "solipsism".
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@fauxlaw
In this specific metaphor are you comparing (as opposed to contrasting) the concept of "solipsism" to the concept of "door"?
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@Athias
it's simpler to assume that which could have and should have been done after the fact.
everyone thinks they're a genius in a bull market.
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@Sum1hugme
Epistemology is what the boards of our house are made of. What is outside our house is noumenon.
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@zedvictor4
Solipsism is self defeating anyway.
Please explain.
Because to transfer such data relies upon experiences that exceed the self.
Data can only be transferred WITHIN a system.
Are you perhaps familiar with Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorems? [LINK]
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@secularmerlin
There is no "solution" for soft solipsism. We cannot verify the "realness" of reality without presuming that it is. It really doesn't matter however because even if this is all illusory we can still learn the rules and optimize our experience.
Well stated.
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@fauxlaw
A door, when closed is not; it is a wall. When open, it is not, either. It is an opening in the wall, thus, the empty space is not a door. That's solipsism.
Are you suggesting that a "movable wall" and or an "intermittent opening in a wall" are not "valid concepts"?
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@Athias
No. You haven't substantiated that time is outside of your thoughts. How is your perception of time any less constructed than your awareness of your conception?
Well stated.
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@Sum1hugme
It seems to me that a necessary precondition of thought is time within which to have that thought. It can't be the other way around.
A "necessary precondition" is not the same as "external".
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