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@Tarik
Why are you arguing as if I’m equating the two to one another, I’m not. Although you could make an exception if both parties agree to the middle ground.
(IFF) you agree with me (THEN) we are not in disagreement
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@Tarik
Yes, but I didn’t say that’s the same as common ground.
Middle ground is a dangerous logical fallacy.
Common ground is an inescapable necessity.
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@Tarik
If you truly believed this you wouldn’t continue to engage in this banter.
The first trial,
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@Athias
And, if the vaccine prevents neither its contraction nor its spread, why is it being recommended even to those who are at low risk of dying from it?
Yep.
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@Athias
Also, does it seem strange that they recommend the "vaccine", even for people who have ALREADY HAD A CONFIRMED INFECTION OF COVID19?
Why would you need a jab to stimulate the production of antibodies for a disease you've already recovered from?
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@Athias
This is not true for the Covid-19 vaccine, mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. That immune response, which produces antibodies, is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus enters our bodies.And this is not concerning? Tell me: how does an mRNA vaccine "teach" a cell?
Nice.
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@Tarik
No it’s not, let’s say your dealing with a lunatic whose goal is to kill 100 people are you willing to be transigent in regards to your views and say he meet you halfway with 50?
MIDDLE GROUND ≠ COMMON GROUND
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@Tarik
which is what I was alluding to when I said it’s self refuting.
Can you perhaps offer some suggestion that would make it "less wrong"?
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@Greyparrot
And it's already known from Darwin's studies that species need stressors to learn and grow and evolve. The reason why humans became smarter than chimps is because the chimps kicked humans out of the forest.
I highly recommend every episode of "Mind Field".
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@Athias
What if your grandparents made a contract with a bunch of people to give them a bunch of land they could presumably hunt and farm on (so they could stay alive) and then changed the deal and gave them much less land than they had promised and also polluted the water supply and killed off the animals.You didn't do any of this.But you know, hypothetically, what if your grandparents did this.Does the passage of time magically make "wrong" things "normal"?How could they have changed the deal if they made a contract, at least unknowingly to the other party? The stipulations should have been made known to each party involved before the deal was final. That is, if the other party did not want less land and a polluted water supply, then they could've opted out.
Once you give up your WEAPONS, you are at the MERCY of the side with an ARMY.
THE QUESTION IS, "WHAT RESPONSIBILITY DO GRANDCHILDREN HAVE FOR THE CRIMES (think "deathcamps" & "slaughter") OF THEIR GRANDPARENTS?"
(A) 0%
(B) 5%
(C) 6%
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@Lemming
Let's say there's a kid, and their mother gives him 2 pieces of candy, while telling him to give 1 of the pieces of candy to their other sibling in another room.The first child eats both pieces of candy.The stealing his siblings candy was an evil necessary to satisfy his sweet tooth and greed.Or let's say there's a child at their blind parents death bed, and the parent asks if their other child who happens to be mute is there as well.The child who is there 'lies and says yes they are.Parent dies happy.The lie was an evil necessary to satisfy the childs desire to make his parent's death happier by thinking their other mute child was there as well.
Are you suggesting that every action and every thought is technically "necessary"?
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@ebuc
Charles Blow in his new book "the devil you know: A black power manifesto" This guy is thinking generations ahead of others.
Thanks for the link.
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@Greyparrot
In a few thousand years, MAYBE fit Humans can be selected to exist in a Utopian world. The current genes will NOT allow it though. Not without an extinction event as shown with the mice experiment.Good video though about how genes change over a million years.
Try 10 days,
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@Greyparrot
Consider this experiment in a Utopian society void of any meaningful purpose for life.
Consider this "experiment",
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@fauxlaw
According to whom? Your sock puppet?
Please challenge my axioms and or point out a specific logical error and or provide a counter-factual.
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@secularmerlin
If you don't want to call that then please provide an alternative term.
every single conversation ever.
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@Tarik
Just because some sports star or movie star or rock star is "popular" doesn't mean that it's my personal favorite.No but if your of the belief that EVERYBODY should be in AGREEMENT in regards to this stars popularity then it’s hypocritical to say that when in the next breath you DISAGREE with them. You see it’s not the DISAGREEMENT that’s the hypocrisy it’s the fact that you preached AGREEMENT and went against just that.
I only need to agree with YOU.
(IFF) I am speaking with YOU (THEN) I only need to agree with YOU
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@oromagi
You can't have socialism or communism without a strong democracy in place
Well stated.
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@fauxlaw
Why should I dare not mention Taosim? A little testy, yeah?
Taoism can't be used to "explain" anything.
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@Tarik
The problem is contradiction on his part, like how are you gonna argue in favor of agreeing on terms right after rejecting the dictionary that has many terms people agree on (hence why there usage is so popular).
I'm not sure that's a "contradiction".
Just because some sports star or movie star or rock star is "popular" doesn't mean that it's my personal favorite.
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@Tarik
Doesn’t change the fact that you contradicted yourself with your statement.
The two people then examine the tables and if there's a structural problem with one of the legs, they point out the problem and give the other a chance to modify or repair the flaws.
If a leg is fundamentally flawed it must be removed from that table.
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@Greyparrot
There is no such thing as "private property" in the united states.Only for the ultra-rich.Peons like you and me are fucked.
This sounds eerily familiar.
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@TheUnderdog
Taxation is Theft, just like someone stealing your money
You don't "own" money.
It's a medium of exchange based purely on debt.
The taxes you're so mad about are necessary in order to keep the currency from inflating out of control.
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@Greyparrot
The "protest" was funded by elite farmholders exploiting loopholes in the law that give no property rights to their competition. California is riddled with laws that have exemptions instead of universal property rights. The elites in California have the strongest property rights of all. Why do you think they are there?Why do you think the Middle -Class with no access to equal property rights are fleeing California?
There is no such thing as "private property" in the united states.
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@Athias
Ok, I like where you're going with this.Would you perhaps say, INACTION IS NEVER IMMORAL?Yes, I would.
Well, we appear to be on the same side of this at the moment.
Now, purely hypothetically,
What if your grandparents made a contract with a bunch of people to give them a bunch of land they could presumably hunt and farm on (so they could stay alive) and then changed the deal and gave them much less land than they had promised and also polluted the water supply and killed off the animals.
You didn't do any of this.
But you know, hypothetically, what if your grandparents did this.
Does the passage of time magically make "wrong" things "normal"?
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@Greyparrot
Do you understand the definition of "peasant" is basically "NOT-a-land-owner"?So it was a Marxist revolt?
French Revolution: 1789
Karl Heinrich Marx: 1818
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@Greyparrot
Modern Marxism.If you are labeled "rich" by a Marxist government, you have no property rights.
Do you understand that "your property" can be seized at any time and for any reason?
And for all the barking about "that's not legal" they then explain exactly how it IS legal.
It's all great when corporations get special legislation to protect them from liability for killing people downstream.
But when unions stage a protest that lasts for a day at some random farm, that's a WAY BIGGER PROBLEM!!!
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@Greyparrot
Did French peasants seize the property of the rich?Or were they just protecting their own land and own property?
Do you understand the definition of "peasant" is basically "NOT-a-land-owner"?
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@TheUnderdog
Fourms have to be open for everyone to speak their minds. If something objectionable gets said on the fourm, the site is not in trouble.
You don't seem to understand how SECTION230 works.
As it currently stands, public postings can be arbitrarily moderated by hosts.
SECTION230 protects the host from liability.
SECTION230 does not protect the posters from moderation.
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@Greyparrot
Firstly, people like Stalin subverted the democratic practices of the Soviet Union to retain power as they believed only they could lead communism to victory.
Secondly, all the revolutionaries completely ignored the part when Marx said Capitalism is essential before evolving to Socialism and then Communism. They tried to bypass the industrial capitalism stage and move straight to communism.
Thirdly, whilst Marx did support violence, it was only allowed through necessity. Marx knew that capitalists would try to subvert the transition to communism in democracy and advocated a violent revolution if necessary.
Blaming the ideas of Marx for the actions of Pol Pot is like blaming the ideas of Jesus Christ for actions of Tomás de Torquemada.
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@Greyparrot
Would you call the French Revolution a "Marxist Uprising"?
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@fauxlaw
"opposites" only "exist" in abstraction.Not according to most Eastern and Western philosophy, with or without quotes. Want to try under the Northerners? Well, in that case, the blues were opposed by the grays...
What's the "opposite" of a dog?
Oh, a dead dog?
No.
Perhaps a dog made of anti-matter?
A dead dog is not the "opposite" of an alive dog.
In the same way that a wooden plank is not the "opposite" of a tree.
The sun is not the "opposite" of the moon.
And don't you dare mention Taoism.
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@Athias
It is a delusion which attempts to diminish the evils perpetrated on select individuals under the guise of a collective benefit. It is as cognitively dissonant as the notion of "the greater good."
You're right.
We need to agree on an explicit definition of "evil" in order to avoid "begging the question".
In the meantime, would you accept, "necessary-unpleasantness"?
I propose,
(IFF) you wish to stay alive and achieve and or maintain some level of physical and emotional comfort (THEN) you may need to prepare yourself to engage in some "necessary-unpleasantness"
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Modern society is based on money which you get from a job. So if you tell people you need to work to survive then yes it is an evil.
Sounds like textbook coercion to me.
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@fauxlaw
What is the opposite of treeReally? Assuming your tree is alive, a dead tree.Mathematics? Formulae whose elements do not equate, like most alleged syllogisms. Come on, is this a serious question? Go find your Tau to teach yin yang. The idea of opposition is so basic, it's a sidewalk trip.
"opposites" only "exist" in abstraction.
There is no "opposite" of a dog.
There is no "opposite" of a tree.
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@Athias
Do you believe it is a "moral good" to let someone starve to death while you have more than you need?One can't "let" someone starve. That presumes that one has a responsibility to the nourishment of others. (I'm fairly certain you know where I can extend the logic of this rationale.) And does one's need really qualify one's claim to a possession or mitigate the theft of that possession? One's need will always be determined by him or herself, not that necessity is necessary to establish a claim.
Ok, I like where you're going with this.
Would you perhaps say, INACTION IS NEVER IMMORAL?
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@Athias
Stealing a loaf of bread because you're starving MIGHT BE a "necessary evil".That's just prioritizing survival. It doesn't mitigate the nature of the action, which is wrong.
Do you believe it is a "moral good" to let someone starve to death while you have more than you need?
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@Tarik
Well the dictionary has terms that consensus agrees on, I guess that’s why there usage is so popular.
A lexicographer polls newspaper editors and book publishers to discover and document the current popular usages of specific words.
Most individuals simply take for granted that their own personal understanding of a word is the correct version.
The truth of the matter is that "the dictionary" only covers "general usage" and does not list all task and or discipline specific lingo and or jargon.
And even beyond these technicalities, I find it imperative to nail down specific word definitions with specific speakers because each person has a somewhat different understanding of each term, based on their personal lived experience, even when both parties are speaking the same language.
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@Athias
I don’t get the distinction between a “necessary evil” and just plain evil.Well stated. "Necessary evil" is nothing more than a cognitively dissonant prose which attempts to justify doing evil.
Stealing a cookie because you're just greedy is NOT a "necessary evil".
Stealing a loaf of bread because you're starving MIGHT BE a "necessary evil".
Primarily the idea of "necessary evil" revolves around the concept of "the noble lie".
For example, in governance theory, just like a general in battle, "saving the lives of the soldiers under your command" is almost NEVER your primary goal.
A king will always be "stuck between a rock and a hard place" because nearly every decision they make will cause SOME to suffer and SOME to profit.
When there is no "perfect win-win" solution apparent, then one must choose from the "less wrong" of available "necessary evils".
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@Greyparrot
Sure, I get that.
What I don't understand is why you think Marx ever endorsed mass murder and the elimination of all money.
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@ebuc
The primary goal of KayKayKay is killing of people of color.
I'm not sure this is strictly "true".
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@Greyparrot
Declaring 1975 “Year Zero” in the country, Pol Pot isolated Kampuchea from the global community. He resettled hundreds of thousands of the country’s city-dwellers in rural farming communes and abolished the country’s currency. He also outlawed the ownership of private property and the practice of religion in the new nation. [**] [**]
Exactly which part of this is "Marxism"?
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@Greyparrot
Pol Pot’s regime also executed thousands of people it had deemed as enemies of the state. Those seen as intellectuals, or potential leaders of a revolutionary movement, were also executed. Legend has it, some were executed for merely appearing to be intellectuals, by wearing glasses or being able to speak a foreign language.
Exactly which part of this is "Marxism"?
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@ILikePie5
aBoLISh cAPiTaliSM
Have fun burning down your own strawman.
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@Greyparrot
there is an immediate consequence to inflation that other countries can avoid for years.
Please explain.
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@Greyparrot
Monetary meritocracy? Sure. May the most stable currency prosper.
Decentralized finance is ANARCHY PRAXIS.
There is NO centralized control, all participants agree to the same TRANSPARENT rules and are treated 100% equally, and enforcement is automatic and PROCRUSTEAN.
In other words, everyone obeys the same rules, nobody gets "special treatment".
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@Athias
If you're getting vaccinated every five years, what has the vaccine accomplished? If it's to bolster one's immune system, then there are alternatives that don't require intravenous introduction of an infection/disease/syndrome.
- The Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines could offer immunity against COVID-19 for up to two to three years. However, they will most likely have to be administered annually. [**]
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@Greyparrot
In a meritocracy void of equitable outcomes, businesses fail.
Do you have any opinions about decentralized financial systems?
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@Greyparrot
Are you suggesting that ZERO "capitalist" businesses have gone out of business for the exact same reasons?
Are you familiar with,
Mondragon
Total number of employees in 2019: 81,507
It is the biggest employee owned company in Spain by number of employees and in terms of revenue, is by far the biggest employee owned company in Europe. The cooperative has 257 companies which employ over 80,000 people and have revenues exceeding 12 billion euros. It is also the tenth biggest Spanish company when turnover is taken into consideration.
Total number of employees in 2019: 81,507
It is the biggest employee owned company in Spain by number of employees and in terms of revenue, is by far the biggest employee owned company in Europe. The cooperative has 257 companies which employ over 80,000 people and have revenues exceeding 12 billion euros. It is also the tenth biggest Spanish company when turnover is taken into consideration.
John Lewis Partnership
Total number of employees in 2019: 83,000
It is the biggest employee owned company in the UK, and owns John Lewis & Partners department stores, its banking and financial services, Waitrose & Partner Supermarkets and other retail activities as well. It is the third biggest company in the UK which is not traded on the stock exchange and the chain appeals to upper middle class and upper class shoppers. The company was established in 1929 and was founded on Oxford Street in London.
Total number of employees in 2019: 83,000
It is the biggest employee owned company in the UK, and owns John Lewis & Partners department stores, its banking and financial services, Waitrose & Partner Supermarkets and other retail activities as well. It is the third biggest company in the UK which is not traded on the stock exchange and the chain appeals to upper middle class and upper class shoppers. The company was established in 1929 and was founded on Oxford Street in London.
Publix Supermarkets
Total number of employees in 2019: 207,000
Topping the list of the 5 largest employee owned companies in the world is Publix Supermarkets, which is based in the USA. The company is 90 years old and is headquartered in Florida. Throughout the decades, the company has continued to be owned by members of the Jenkin family, who were the founders as well as past and present employees of the company too. The company has over 1,200 locations across the US and is the only employee owned company to have more than 200,000 employees. The company is one of the 100 biggest companies in the US regardless of ownership or industry, and is one of the biggest private companies in the US as well, surpassing most of those which are not owned by employees. Publix had revenues of over $38.1 billion in 2019 with a net income exceeding $3 billion. It is one of the very few companies which have been named in Fortune’s 100 Best Companies to Work For every year since its inception 22 years ago in 1998.
Total number of employees in 2019: 207,000
Topping the list of the 5 largest employee owned companies in the world is Publix Supermarkets, which is based in the USA. The company is 90 years old and is headquartered in Florida. Throughout the decades, the company has continued to be owned by members of the Jenkin family, who were the founders as well as past and present employees of the company too. The company has over 1,200 locations across the US and is the only employee owned company to have more than 200,000 employees. The company is one of the 100 biggest companies in the US regardless of ownership or industry, and is one of the biggest private companies in the US as well, surpassing most of those which are not owned by employees. Publix had revenues of over $38.1 billion in 2019 with a net income exceeding $3 billion. It is one of the very few companies which have been named in Fortune’s 100 Best Companies to Work For every year since its inception 22 years ago in 1998.
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