3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

3
4
9

Total posts: 14,582

Posted in:
Evolution offers a better alternative to bible creationism
-->
@RaymondSheen
Macro evolution isn't in accordance with the Bible and has never been observed.
Created:
0
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
But what about the lack of evidence makes reasonable conclusions unreasonable?

there is extremely reliable evidence that shows property similarity is strongly correlated with levels of interaction


claiming otherwise would obviously contradict not only the evidence, but logic itself
Created:
0
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
repeating your proposition does not prove it.

Can you answer why or not?

there is no conceivable example of two fundamentally distinct substances interacting

we can observe interactions

some interactions are strong

these strong interactions are interactions between substances that share MORE properties

some interactions are weak

these weak interactions are interactions between substances that share FEWER properties

we use logic to conclude

that zero shared properties equals zero interaction
Created:
0
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
the two must share a fundamental substrate
You still have not answered why...
if your god was made of neutrons, it would have a lot of trouble detecting humans

you can only interact with things you can detect

you can only detect things which are composed of fundamentally similar substance
Created:
0
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
He is "seperate" in the sense that he is not of the universe.

Does not mean He cannot interact with it.

ok, so not fundamentally separate

your god shares some fundamental similarity with everything it can interact with
Created:
0
Posted in:
Tao - Both good and evil are necessary!
-->
@Best.Korea

There is an old Taoist parable that might better illustrate the flexibility of determining whether any given event in your life is "good" or "bad".



There was a farmer who one day left his stable door ajar and his horse wandered away.

His neighbor notes, "it is a terrible thing that you forgot to secure your stable, for now you have lost your only horse."

The farmer doesn't reply.

A few days later his horse returned with a wild horse.

His neighbor is surprised and exclaims, "it is a wonderful thing that you forgot to secure your stable! Because now you have two horses!"

The farmer doesn't reply.

A week later the farmer's son is training the new horse and is thrown onto a rock and breaks his leg.

The neighbor sympathetically comments, "it is a terrible thing that you forgot to secure your stable, because now your son is lame."

The farmer doesn't reply.

The next year their king declares war and forcibly recruits all of the able bodied young men to fight.

The neighbor chuckles, "it is a wonderful thing that you forgot to secure your stable, because your son, being lame, will not have to face the horrors of battle."

The farmer doesn't reply.
Created:
1
Posted in:
I stand for free speech
-->
@RaymondSheen
I've always thought that not being able to yell FIRE! in a crowded movie theater because idiots who can't think for themselves would panic and kill one another trying to escape the madness was, well, stupid. Hate speach. How stupid. I hate hate speach but that goes without saying. Or is that thinking? It goes without thinking.  
well stated
Created:
1
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
maybe, "spirit" or whatever you want to call it
No. I do not call it a spirit. That has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

We most definitely can observe the order of the particles. That is what I am talking about. In fact, I will argue this "order of the particles" is what makes something what it is.

how can your god be considered "separate" from the material world

if your god can interact with the material world

the two must share a fundamental substrate
Created:
0
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
Ah! Ok! I see where you are going with this.
So, materially speaking, everything is the same. I agree!

But... are they the same thing...formally? Meaning are the different neutrinos, electrons, neutrons, protons, whatever you want to call them, ordered the same way in everything?
they are all made of energy

that is the fundamental similarity that we can observe

different configurations of a fundamental substrate

now, if we hypothesise another layer more fundamental than that

maybe, "spirit" or whatever you want to call it

that we cannot observe scientifically

we can know for certain

that if this "spirit" can interact with observable energy

then energy and "spirit" must share some fundamental substrate
Created:
0
Posted in:
LOGIC
well, matter and antimatter can only interact by annihilating each other - - they both exist in a QUANTIFIABLE sense - - but cannot "interact" in the full range that we normally think - - neutrinos are another example, they only interact extremely weakly with normal matter because they have greatly reduced similarity, but they still interact because they maintain a fundamental similarity - - - "anything" fundamentally dissimilar would be mutually undetectable
Created:
0
Posted in:
Evolution offers a better alternative to bible creationism
-->
@Moozer325
The god thing was simpler, but it wasn’t correct.
i'm not sure plate tectonics proves or disproves the wrath of god
Created:
0
Posted in:
I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
-->
@RaymondSheen
He wrote it in a book. Think of a science book but more accurate. Think of a cave painting or pottery shards and bone fragments, but better. 
does this god of yours have a y chromosome ?

also

how do we know which book is written by the real god(s)

and which book is written by a fake god(s) ?


there are a lot of holy books
Created:
2
Posted in:
I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
-->
@RaymondSheen
We were created in his image.
and we know this how ?
Created:
2
Posted in:
Who in their right mind would want a ceasefire with these animals!?
-->
@baggins
so they were not really taking anything from the Palestinians.
except their farms and homes
Created:
0
Posted in:
I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
-->
@RaymondSheen
Omnivore. Saying that Jehovah God is presented by his word the Bible as omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent or omnibenevolent in the theological sense is like saying an omnivore can eat the space-time continuum and nuclear weapons.  

Omniscient means knowing all in an exaggerated sense. Like Santa knows when you are sleeping. God didn't know what Adam and Eve had done until he asked them, he didn't know what Cain had done until he asked him; he sent three angels to ascertain whether or not reports he heard were accurate and he sent Joshua and the spies out in the land to report on it before they went in. God doesn't know what it is like to experience sin. 

Is he omnipotent in the theologically exaggerated sense? No. God can't lie. God can't die. God can't come to this universe. (1 Kings 8:272 Chronicles 2:6) If he can't do that he certainly isn't omnipresent. And if he destroyed the entire world once, and soon again how can he be omnibenevolent? All the omni's as they are presented, are religious superstitious nonsense. 

i mean, great

if you don't believe in a god that contains all power and all knowledge

that's perfectly fine with me

and if that god happens to be inexplicable



even better
Created:
1
Posted in:
I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
-->
@Moozer325
Ive been atheist for a while now, but I’m just realizing that I haven’t really heard both sides of the argument. No disrespect to Alex O’Connor, but I feel like sometimes the sources I’m getting this stuff from can be a little one-sided, and what better place to hear the other side, than right here?
omniscient omnipotent creator is definitely true

Created:
1
Posted in:
I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
-->
@Tradesecret
The Christian religion - at least the Reformed part of that religion says it is impossible for someone to become a true Christian. For me, that is one of the strongest arguments for the existence of the Christian God. We say that people only become Christians because God reveals himself to them by revelation. Hence, it is impossible to prove his existence. 
i'm not sure how this could be considered a "strong argument" for christianity specifically

the question of "god(s) or not god(s)" is one thing

the question of "why this flavor of religion and not one of the thousands of other religions" is a completely different question
Created:
2
Posted in:
I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
-->
@zedvictor4
I'm also a traditional atheist.

And also willing to be convinced otherwise.

Though I would require hard evidence.

Not myth and legend fantasy magical stuff.

i used to think there was absolutely no way an atheist would ever convert to christianity


but i've had a chance to speak to a few individuals who make this claim


and it essentially boils down to a specific PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

not "an argument" or "evidence"


it's a private epiphany


GNOSIS
Created:
1
Posted in:
I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
-->
@Savant
If you have the patience to watch a 1hr debate and want to see Alex debate someone on his level, I'd recommend his discussion with William Lane Craig on the Kalam cosmological argument.

There are people who absolutely hate Craig, but he's probably as deep as you get into complex apologetics. If you want someone who appeals more to the "common man," I'd recommend John Lennox and his debate with Hitchens.

thanks for the links

i will give these a watch
Created:
2
Posted in:
LOGIC
inexplicable events may be "hypothetically true" but we can't properly describe inexplicable events as "provably true" - - and "provably true" is the only flavor of "true" that counts in logic - - this is obvious when you use the example of mathematics - - - nobody is going to believe an inexplicable equation or mathematical claim unless it is "provably true" - - - - i would consider PSR to be a standard of "provably true"
Created:
1
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@zedvictor4
So for example,  if you wanted to buy something from me priced at £1000, and I demanded payment in pounds sterling, and you only had bitcoin.

How would that work?
just like if i owned corporate stock

i would sell the stock on an exchange

and give you the currency you personally preferred

or

if you accepted the stock

i would give you the stock

and you could exchange it at your leisure
Created:
1
Posted in:
Evolution offers a better alternative to bible creationism
-->
@Moozer325
Honestly, that was a really funny video.

some (if not most) people prefer simple explanations

so, when you say "better alternative"

perhaps you could be slightly more specific
Created:
1
Posted in:
Space-time Is What Exactly?
-->
@Sidewalker
Spacetime has no objective reality
please explain gravitational lensing
Created:
1
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean by "substance"
are you familiar with neutrinos ?
Created:
1
Posted in:
F20M TH3 R1V3R T0 TH3 S3A
-->
@Greyparrot
i have a feeling that you probably want to stay alive and pursue comfort and avoid suffering
Created:
1
Posted in:
LOGIC
The symbol "◻" typically denotes necessity in modal logic, and "¬" denotes negation. So, "◻¬(absolute nothingness)" means "It is necessarily true that absolute nothingness does not exist." If you agree with "¬(absolute nothingness -> something)," it means you believe "It is not true that absolute nothingness implies something."

Created:
1
Posted in:
㊙️ PRINCIPLE OF SUFFICIENT REASON
-->
@Best.Korea
Thus, when people believe in causations they never observed, they might as well believe in santa.
HISTORY = FICTION
Created:
1
Posted in:
Space-time Is What Exactly?
-->
@ebuc
Created:
1
Posted in:
F20M TH3 R1V3R T0 TH3 S3A
-->
@Greyparrot
Sadly, evolution doesn't care about feelings.

great argument, kill everyone
Created:
1
Posted in:
Evolution offers a better alternative to bible creationism
-->
@Moozer325
A quick google told me that “parsimonious” is basically equivalent to Occam’s razor. Correct me if I’m wrong. If that is what you meant, first, how is creationism the simplest explanation? (This is a genuine question, sorry if It came of a sarcastic). Second, if you are right, it’s Occam’s Razor versus tons of scientific evidence, so you tell me who wins. 
Created:
1
Posted in:
F20M TH3 R1V3R T0 TH3 S3A
-->
@Greyparrot
None of the dead Nazis, Romans, Confederates, or baby killing Aztecs will ever appreciate the tears.
we're not worried about the dead ones

we're worried about the rest of us currently alive ones
Created:
1
Posted in:
F20M TH3 R1V3R T0 TH3 S3A
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
So are nazis, sometimes humans need to be bombed.
we only bombed twenty percent of nazi germany
Created:
1
Posted in:
Space-time Is What Exactly?
-->
@ebuc
fabric of spacetime is discussed
Created:
2
Posted in:
Evolution offers a better alternative to bible creationism
-->
@Moozer325
creationism is superior because it is parsimonious
Created:
1
Posted in:
Space-time Is What Exactly?
-->
@ebuc
Created:
1
Posted in:
Who in their right mind would want a ceasefire with these animals!?
-->
@Greyparrot
I just find it weird that the same ultra-educated on US universities are against killing for a select group, and are just fine killing other brown people in the Middle East to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars....
i wonder why nobody protested the iraq war 
Created:
2
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@TheUnderdog
The love of diversity increases with one's distance from it.  I just don't care how white/non white the neighborhood I live in is.  I care more about cheap property that is within driving distance of my job.  If that's in Vermont, then fine.  If it's in East Hartford, then fine.  I don't care.
sure, your personal preferences are not in dispute

we're talking about societal preferences
Created:
1
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
must necessarily be fundamentally comprised of the same substance
Nope.

To say they are the same substance is to say they are the same actual thing.
That is absurd.
two fundamentally distinct substances cannot interact
Created:
1
Posted in:
Debate as if there is no opponent - Tao way of debate
-->
@Best.Korea
Created:
1
Posted in:
㊙️ PRINCIPLE OF SUFFICIENT REASON
I take it the main question here is whether the PSR is true. Or, we can put this ontologically: what is it that would make the PSR true? Or epistemically: what it is that would warrant our knowledge that the PSR is true?

It is Kant, in The Critique of Pure Reason, who famously both makes these sorts of questions explicit and defends some influential reasons to doubt the PSR, or at least doubt the PSR in some relevant contexts.

In answering what I have just called the ontological and epistemic questions, Kant argues that what makes the PSR true/what warrants our knowledge of the PSR is its transcendental ideality. That is, on Kant's view, the PSR is a principle which necessarily governs any rational act of conceptualizing what one experiences, so that it serves as a norm of reasoning or as a basis for producing concepts about nature from our experiences. The positive result of this position is that we have a reason to think that the PSR holds in principle whenever any rational agent is cognizing their experiences, and so holds in principle as a norm or basis of scientific reasoning. The negative result of this position is that, because the PSR is grounded in the necessary conditions of reasoning about experience, it is being misapplied if it is taken as a basis or norm for things beyond our experience. This is to say that, while we can know that the PSR is a principle governing our cognition, we cannot know that it is a principle governing things-in-themselves, or nature as it is independent of our cognition of it. This prohibits its use in metaphysical arguments like the cosmological argument for God, where it is taken as the norm governing a causal series extending beyond our experience to a first cause which lies outside it.

So this sort of position is probably the most famous case of a mitigated skepticism regarding the PSR. But there are of course people who defend the PSR against this kind of criticism, as well as those who defend a broader skepticism regarding it. [[]]

Created:
2
Posted in:
F20M TH3 R1V3R T0 TH3 S3A
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
The international community is concerned with apolitical transference of humanitarian resources, so those don't necessarily count when we're discussing the real true beliefs of either the jews or muslims.
it doesn't matter what they believe

they are still humans
Created:
1
Posted in:
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
-->
@MAV99
well, all things observable and knowable, both directly and indirectly, must necessarily be fundamentally comprised of the same substance, if you're looking for a "god" we can be certain that any "god" is fundamentally comprised of the same substance as everything else - - - because if it wasn't, it would be mutually undetectable
Created:
2
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@TheUnderdog
schools are also becoming more homogeneous
I don't think this is true.

The U.S. student population is more diverse, but schools are still highly segregated [[LINK]]
Created:
1
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@zedvictor4
How is the Bitcoin price calculated.
market value

just like gold

or a corporate stock certificate

or an exchange of foreign currency

or a lobster

or a bushel of wheat

Created:
1
Posted in:
Who in their right mind would want a ceasefire with these animals!?
-->
@Stephen
Created:
1
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@TheUnderdog
but people have a strong tendency to integrate with other nationalities in the US.
schools are also becoming more homogeneous
Created:
1
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@TheUnderdog
If immigrants wanted segregation, then America is the wrong place to move as ethnic neighborhoods are hard to find in the US.
word of the day


also

churches are extremely homogeneous

the average church is 90% homogeneous
Created:
1
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@TheUnderdog
You can get the same services whether you are a Haitian living in a Haitian Neighborhood or in Suburbia.
there once was an immigrant family from france who moved to cincinnati

they specifically chose to move into a neighborhood

near a french bakery

where they happened to know another french family

i'm not sure this is a "bad idea"
Created:
1
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@TheUnderdog
What if the expats living in the US learn English (most do)?  If they didn't know English, then understandable.  But about 50% of immigrants that move to America are fluent in English I think (Chat GPT), and their kids are especially more likely to be fluent in English.  There is a reason why we are a melting pot rather than a mosaic.
sure, but even spanish speaking people tend to gravitate to spanish speaking neighborhoods

it's much easier to relate to people who share traditions and culture

Created:
1
Posted in:
TRIBALISM = GOOD
-->
@TheUnderdog
Integrating doesn't require additional cost.
expect or desire

you skipped over the expect or desire part
Created:
1