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@MAV99
That would mean the thing itself is in your head.
identification of form is a concept
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"I am (believer of non existence of God.) == I am not a (believer of existence of God.)" - -
nope, merely unconvinced - - -
it would be like saying "i am not a bigfoot fan club member" - - -
it contains no explicit claim of bigfoot "non-existence"
nope, merely unconvinced - - -
it would be like saying "i am not a bigfoot fan club member" - - -
it contains no explicit claim of bigfoot "non-existence"
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@Best.Korea
The latter means you have to believe in everything, so its not a good standard.
we all cherry-pick our standards of evidence from topic to topic
atheists and theists
we can't hold theists to uniform standards of evidence
when atheists don't hold uniform standards of evidence
atheism is simply, NOT-A-THEIST
nothing more, nothing less
not an ontological or epistemological claim
in fact
ATHEISM makes no claim at all
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@MAV99
The will is free to reject that desire.
the will can prioritize one desire over another
but must always choose the best option
i always make the best possible choice based on the information at hand
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@MAV99
You cannot say of the form what you say of matter.
form is a concept
data
on the hard drive
in your head
a pattern of energy
the same energy that forms matter
fundamental similarity
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㊙️ THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)
there is no argument required to be unconvinced
are you perhaps unconvinced of the claim that bigfootspacealienslochnessmonster is real ? [presumably you are unconvinced]
do you feel compelled to fabricate an argument defending your (presumed) non-belief in bigfootspacealienslochnessmonster ? [presumably you are not compelled]
are you perhaps "not-an-astronaut" ? [presumably you are not]
are you perhaps "not-a-dinosaur" ? [presumably you are not]
are you perhaps "not-a-hippie" ? [presumably you are not]
do you feel compelled to fabricate an argument defending your lack of self-identifying as one of these labels ? [presumably you are not]
THE CLAIM IS: there is no argument required to be unconvinced
THE CLAIM IS: there is no argument required to be unconvinced
RHETORICAL QUESTIONS ARE EMPLOYED TO ILLUSTRATE THIS POINT
in other words
if you don't feel compelled to explain why you are "not-a-stamp-collector"
then you already understand why it is nonsensical to goad someone into explaining why they call themself an ATHEIST (simply, NOT-A-THEIST)
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@Fallaneze
THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)
there is no argument required to be unconvinced
are you perhaps unconvinced of the claim that bigfootspacealienslochnessmonster is real ? [presumably you are unconvinced]
do you feel compelled to fabricate an argument defending your (presumed) non-belief in bigfootspacealienslochnessmonster ? [presumably you are not compelled]
are you perhaps "not-an-astronaut" ? [presumably you are not]
are you perhaps "not-a-dinosaur" ? [presumably you are not]
are you perhaps "not-a-hippie" ? [presumably you are not]
do you feel compelled to fabricate an argument defending your lack of self-identifying as one of these labels ? [presumably you are not]
THE CLAIM IS: there is no argument required to be unconvinced
RHETORICAL QUESTIONS ARE EMPLOYED TO ILLUSTRATE THIS POINT
in other words
if you don't feel compelled to explain why you are "not-a-stamp-collector"
then you already understand why it is nonsensical to goad someone into explaining why they call themself an ATHEIST (simply, NOT-A-THEIST)
THE CLAIM IS: there is no argument required to be unconvinced
RHETORICAL QUESTIONS ARE EMPLOYED TO ILLUSTRATE THIS POINT
in other words
if you don't feel compelled to explain why you are "not-a-stamp-collector"
then you already understand why it is nonsensical to goad someone into explaining why they call themself an ATHEIST (simply, NOT-A-THEIST)
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@zedvictor4
I'm just trying to understand the benefit of Bitcoin, other than it's novelty value.
transactions cannot be blocked
funds cannot be frozen or confiscated
bitcoin cannot inflate
Who or what controls Bitcoin?
every individual bitcoin holder controls their own bitcoin
it is fully decentralized
there is no "owner" or "corporation" that "calls the shots"
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@MAV99
"Free" in the will means ability to choose regardless of of influence. (or constraints if you want)
your will always serves your desire
will is never free from desire
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@Sidewalker
The self-evident experiential reality of the interaction between the mental and the physical is undeniable, the contrived “interaction problem” is based on denial of the evidence.
body = hardware
mind = software
no magic required
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@MAV99
The design, order, layout by itself is not the same thing as all the wood, glass, stone, metal, etc
you are describing two aspects of the same thing
they are not fundamentally dissimilar
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@Fallaneze
i copied this topic and it currently has 400 comments and 4000 views
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@MAV99
Physical limits exist.mental limits exist.limits to your experiance exist.It does not change the character of ability to choose. Nor does it change the character of undetermined being.
your ability to act is constrained
your ability to think (choose/desire/will) is also constrained
if you are freed from those constraints you are free of constraint
your essential self is comprised of your physical capabilities + experience
if you free yourself from those defining characteristics
you are no longer a "self"
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@MAV99
Bad analogy. You are talking about something representing something else.
is there another way you can try and frame this ?
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@MAV99
1. Lacking constraint to a particular determination2. undetermined being3. ability to make a determination regardless of influence.
in this sense
the only "free" decision you could make
would be unconstrained by your physical capabilities
would be unconstrained by your mental capabilities
and unconstrained by your experience (not contextual)
that sounds about as close to "totally random" as anyone can imagine
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@MAV99
the being of matter and the being of form
matter is the territory
form is the map
the map is not the territory
the two are distinguishable concepts
but they are not fundamentally dissimilar
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@MAV99
My point is to point out the absurdity of the "certitude only by self-observed causation."
the principle of cause-and-effect is demonstrable
the principle of conservation of mass is demonstrable
the principle of human reproduction is demonstrable
therefore
(IFF) you had a mother (THEN) her mother also had a mother
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@MAV99
I think your understanding of will. esp. free will is very lacking.
feel free to present your personally preferred definitions
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@MAV99
We arrive at the existance of those other beings through reason.
can you support this claim ?
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@zedvictor4
And so, will the value of Bitcoin relative to the Dollar never increase or decrease?
bitcoin will never inflate due to overprinting
bitcoin utility stands in stark contrast to the rampant and nearly arbitrary transaction blocking by paypal and credit card companies and state affiliated banks
bitcoin utility stands in stark contrast to the antiquated inaccurate and centralized accounting practices of the stock market
and of course, based on demand, values will naturally move up and values will move down
but if you look at a chart
there is a very clear uptrend
and if you look at an inflation adjusted chart for the value of USD there is a very clear downtrend
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@MAV99
My point was that, if BK is human and was born, BK must have come from a human that was born. To say that you cannot know that is absurd.
Best.Korea is the only individual in this conversation that can know this for certain
from our perspective Best.Korea may simply be a computer program or an alien ghost spirit god
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@MAV99
No. It is simply the determination brought about by my free will.
if your soul is capable of accumulating experience
and has a design with finite capabilities
then you're just pushing back the question
your soul has no free-will
YHWH has no free-will
because YHWH cannot have a will
because a will is defined as goal-seeking-in-service-of-desire
and YHWH is incapable of desire because it is omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent
YHWH is also incapable of goal-seeking because it is omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent
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@MAV99
Being simply means you exist. But that does not mean you exist the same way or as the same thing.
there are things that "exist" as concrete nouns
there are things that "exist" as abstract nouns
the second type is contingent on the first type
qualification for the quality we call "exist" demands fundamental similarity
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@Deb-8-a-bull
IM NOT GOING TO SET IT UP.NOPE.
perfect
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@Stephen
Well doesn't the BIBLE itself speak of "the mysteries"? Jesus himself teaches one thing to his inner circle and "certain other disciples" for the sole reason of keeping others in the dark in order that "seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand".
well stated
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@Tradesecret
So do you reject direct personal experience?I would suggest there is a further qualification to it. It is the direct personal experience to gain a spiritual or mystical knowledge that no one else has the capacity to obtain. Almost priestlike. It's the sort of spiritual knowledge that Stephen has. No one else comes to the same conclusions regarding the Bible but him. No one reading the same scriptures would ordinarily come to same conclusion unless they were led to it by him. He is a priest in that sense.
i don't "reject" GNOSIS
but it is not something that can be "argued" using mundane language
and it is not something that can be analyzed "scientifically"
deep conviction is almost never the result of "reason"
and i think it is misguided (albeit entertaining) to attempt intuitive post hoc rationalization
your reply here is remarkably stellar
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@MAV99
So...how do you know your mother was born? I do not think you observed it.
your mother might be a robot or an alien or some sort of monster or angel
sure
but generally speaking
we have observed human births
it is reasonable for you to believe your mother is human
and demand evidence if someone claims she is not
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@MAV99
If your biology or experianced causes something it cannot wholly inform it because no effect is greater than its cause.
ok, so
no magic
and by "wholly inform" i mean transfer of physical and or mental energy from one state (before interaction) to another state (after interaction)
in other words
when you (or your soul or whatever you consider yourself) decide whether or not you should hit the snooze button on your alarm clock one more time or simply get up
do you believe that decision
is 100% comprised of your (biological capabilities and needs) + (your accumulated values and experiences) ?
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@MAV99
But not being in the same way, hence not fundamentally similar.
yes, fundamentally similar
comprised of detectable energy
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@sadolite
Time : The distance between to occupied areas of space in the universe. Time and distance are different but are related it takes time to travel a distance.
can matter exists in the absence of the higgs field ?
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@ebuc
And I say this again, as I have many in many posts, Gravity and Dark Energy are best catagorised as Meta-physical.
interesting proposal
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@zedvictor4
So Bitcoin is subject to all the same rules as any other currency?
except for the fact that it cannot inflate and transactions cannot be blocked
Therefore, what is the current value of Bitcion in U.S. Dollars?
1 bitcoin = $67,910
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@Tradesecret
As for revelation being gnosis, you are going to have to articulate that further before I engage.
GNOSIS refers to spiritual or mystical knowledge gained through direct personal experience
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@Best.Korea
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@ADreamOfLiberty
among a group of sapients it is objective in the context of that group.
that's called "intersubjective"
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@TheUnderdog
five types of government that require censorship by definition
1. Authoritarianism
2. Totalitarianism
3. Dictatorship
4. Theocracy
5. Military Junta
2. Totalitarianism
3. Dictatorship
4. Theocracy
5. Military Junta
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@TheUnderdog
Socialism = Communism - censorship of conservative hate speech.
censorship is not integral to either definition
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@MAV99
Who says I need to observe them to understand that it is possible? This is a question of reasoning, not evidence.
what mechanism would enable two fundamentally dissimilar substances to interact ?
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@n8nrgim
were any of these NDE subjects brain-dead ?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I don't have a holy book.
how do you distinguish objective-moral-claims from subjective-moral-claims ?
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@MAV99
What is it about "disimilarity" implies two things cannot interact?
similar substances interact proportionally to their similarity
have you ever observed two fundamentally dissimilar substances interacting ?
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@zedvictor4
How is the exchange rate calculated?
market rate
just like currency
just like gold
just like wheat
just like stock
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If there is no objective morality, there is no morality.
does your holy book explain if it is objectively moral for patents to expire after 20 years ?
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@Tradesecret
After all, why would I bother discussing which god is right - if you don't believe any god exists?
tons of "god(s)" "exist"
your argument for "revelation" is simply an argument for GNOSIS
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@TheUnderdog
No; that would be communist (not an exagerration).
i'm not sure a community centered social structure demands censorship
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@MAV99
I am saying there is no reason to think that things that do not have the same fundamental substratum cannot interact.
similar substances interact proportionally to their similarity
by definition, fundamentally dissimilar substances are mutually undetectable
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