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3RU7AL

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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
That would mean the thing itself is in your head.
identification of form is a concept
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㊙️ THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)
"I am (believer of non existence of God.) ==  I am not a (believer of existence of God.)" - - 

nope, merely unconvinced - - - 

it would be like saying "i am not a bigfoot fan club member" - - - 

it contains no explicit claim of bigfoot "non-existence"
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㊙️ THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)
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@Best.Korea
The latter means you have to believe in everything, so its not a good standard.
we all cherry-pick our standards of evidence from topic to topic

atheists and theists

we can't hold theists to uniform standards of evidence

when atheists don't hold uniform standards of evidence


atheism is simply, NOT-A-THEIST


nothing more, nothing less

not an ontological or epistemological claim

in fact

ATHEISM makes no claim at all
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
The will is free to reject that desire.
the will can prioritize one desire over another

but must always choose the best option

i always make the best possible choice based on the information at hand
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
You cannot say of the form what you say of matter.
form is a concept

data

on the hard drive

in your head

a pattern of energy

the same energy that forms matter


fundamental similarity
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㊙️ THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)
㊙️ THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)



there is no argument required to be unconvinced



are you perhaps unconvinced of the claim that bigfootspacealienslochnessmonster is real ? [presumably you are unconvinced]

do you feel compelled to fabricate an argument defending your (presumed) non-belief in bigfootspacealienslochnessmonster ? [presumably you are not compelled]


are you perhaps "not-an-astronaut" ? [presumably you are not]

are you perhaps "not-a-dinosaur" ? [presumably you are not]

are you perhaps "not-a-hippie" ? [presumably you are not]


do you feel compelled to fabricate an argument defending your lack of self-identifying as one of these labels ? [presumably you are not]



THE CLAIM IS: 
there is no argument required to be unconvinced

RHETORICAL QUESTIONS ARE EMPLOYED TO ILLUSTRATE THIS POINT

in other words

if you don't feel compelled to explain why you are "not-a-stamp-collector"

then you already understand why it is nonsensical to goad someone into explaining why they call themself an ATHEIST (simply, NOT-A-THEIST)

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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@Fallaneze
THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM (TSAFA)



there is no argument required to be unconvinced



are you perhaps unconvinced of the claim that bigfootspacealienslochnessmonster is real ? [presumably you are unconvinced]

do you feel compelled to fabricate an argument defending your (presumed) non-belief in bigfootspacealienslochnessmonster ? [presumably you are not compelled]


are you perhaps "not-an-astronaut" ? [presumably you are not]

are you perhaps "not-a-dinosaur" ? [presumably you are not]

are you perhaps "not-a-hippie" ? [presumably you are not]


do you feel compelled to fabricate an argument defending your lack of self-identifying as one of these labels ? [presumably you are not]



THE CLAIM IS: 
there is no argument required to be unconvinced

RHETORICAL QUESTIONS ARE EMPLOYED TO ILLUSTRATE THIS POINT

in other words

if you don't feel compelled to explain why you are "not-a-stamp-collector"

then you already understand why it is nonsensical to goad someone into explaining why they call themself an ATHEIST (simply, NOT-A-THEIST)
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TRIBALISM = GOOD
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@zedvictor4
I'm just trying to understand the benefit of Bitcoin, other than it's novelty value.

transactions cannot be blocked

funds cannot be frozen or confiscated

bitcoin cannot inflate


Who or what controls Bitcoin?

every individual bitcoin holder controls their own bitcoin

it is fully decentralized

there is no "owner" or "corporation" that "calls the shots"
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
"Free" in the will means ability to choose regardless of of influence. (or constraints if you want)
your will always serves your desire

will is never free from desire
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@Sidewalker
The self-evident experiential reality of the interaction between the mental and the physical is undeniable, the contrived “interaction problem” is based on denial of the evidence.
body = hardware

mind = software

no magic required
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
The design, order, layout by itself is not the same thing as all the wood, glass, stone, metal, etc
you are describing two aspects of the same thing

they are not fundamentally dissimilar
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@Fallaneze

i copied this topic and it currently has 400 comments and 4000 views
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
Physical limits exist.
mental limits exist.
limits to your experiance exist.

It does not change the character of ability to choose. Nor does it change the character of undetermined being.
your ability to act is constrained

your ability to think (choose/desire/will) is also constrained

if you are freed from those constraints you are free of constraint

your essential self is comprised of your physical capabilities + experience

if you free yourself from those defining characteristics

you are no longer a "self"
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
Bad analogy. You are talking about something representing something else.
is there another way you can try and frame this ?
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㊙️ PRINCIPLE OF SUFFICIENT REASON
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@MAV99
Yes! I agree!
bingo
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
1. Lacking constraint to a particular determination
2. undetermined being
3. ability to make a determination regardless of influence.
in this sense

the only "free" decision you could make

would be unconstrained by your physical capabilities

would be unconstrained by your mental capabilities

and unconstrained by your experience (not contextual)

that sounds about as close to "totally random" as anyone can imagine
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
the being of matter and the being of form
matter is the territory

form is the map

the map is not the territory

the two are distinguishable concepts

but they are not fundamentally dissimilar
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㊙️ PRINCIPLE OF SUFFICIENT REASON
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@MAV99
My point is to point out the absurdity of the "certitude only by self-observed causation."
the principle of cause-and-effect is demonstrable

the principle of conservation of mass is demonstrable

the principle of human reproduction is demonstrable

therefore

(IFF) you had a mother (THEN) her mother also had a mother
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
I think your understanding of will. esp. free will is very lacking.
feel free to present your personally preferred definitions
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
We arrive at the existance of those other beings through reason.
can you support this claim ?
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TRIBALISM = GOOD
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@zedvictor4
And so, will the value of Bitcoin relative to the Dollar never increase or decrease?
bitcoin will never inflate due to overprinting

bitcoin utility stands in stark contrast to the rampant and nearly arbitrary transaction blocking by paypal and credit card companies and state affiliated banks

bitcoin utility stands in stark contrast to the antiquated inaccurate and centralized accounting practices of the stock market

and of course, based on demand, values will naturally move up and values will move down

but if you look at a chart

there is a very clear uptrend

and if you look at an inflation adjusted chart for the value of USD there is a very clear downtrend
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㊙️ PRINCIPLE OF SUFFICIENT REASON
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@MAV99
My point was that, if BK is human and was born, BK must have come from a human that was born. To say that you cannot know that is absurd.
Best.Korea is the only individual in this conversation that can know this for certain

from our perspective Best.Korea may simply be a computer program or an alien ghost spirit god
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
No. It is simply the determination brought about by my free will.
if your soul is capable of accumulating experience

and has a design with finite capabilities

then you're just pushing back the question

your soul has no free-will

YHWH has no free-will

because YHWH cannot have a will

because a will is defined as goal-seeking-in-service-of-desire

and YHWH is incapable of desire because it is omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent

YHWH is also incapable of goal-seeking because it is omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
Being simply means you exist. But that does not mean you exist the same way or as the same thing.
there are things that "exist" as concrete nouns

there are things that "exist" as abstract nouns

the second type is contingent on the first type

qualification for the quality we call "exist" demands fundamental similarity
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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@Deb-8-a-bull
IM NOT GOING TO SET IT UP. 
NOPE. 
perfect
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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@Stephen
Well doesn't the BIBLE itself speak of "the mysteries"? Jesus himself teaches one thing to his inner circle and "certain other disciples" for the sole reason of keeping others in the dark  in order that "seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand".
well stated
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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@Tradesecret
So do you reject direct personal experience? 

I would suggest there is a further qualification to it. It is the direct personal experience to gain a spiritual or mystical knowledge that no one else has the capacity to obtain.  Almost priestlike.  It's the sort of spiritual knowledge that Stephen has. No one else comes to the same conclusions regarding the Bible but him. No one reading the same scriptures would ordinarily come to same conclusion unless they were led to it by him.  He is a priest in that sense. 
i don't "reject" GNOSIS

but it is not something that can be "argued" using mundane language

and it is not something that can be analyzed "scientifically"

deep conviction is almost never the result of "reason"

and i think it is misguided (albeit entertaining) to attempt intuitive post hoc rationalization

your reply here is remarkably stellar
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㊙️ PRINCIPLE OF SUFFICIENT REASON
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@MAV99
So...how do you know your mother was born? I do not think you observed it.
your mother might be a robot or an alien or some sort of monster or angel

sure

but generally speaking

we have observed human births

it is reasonable for you to believe your mother is human

and demand evidence if someone claims she is not
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I have spent lot of years mainly figuring out what myself and this reality is all about.
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@MAV99
If your biology or experianced causes something it cannot wholly inform it because no effect is greater than its cause.

ok, so

no magic

and by "wholly inform" i mean transfer of physical and or mental energy from one state (before interaction) to another state (after interaction)

in other words

when you (or your soul or whatever you consider yourself) decide whether or not you should hit the snooze button on your alarm clock one more time or simply get up

do you believe that decision

is 100% comprised of your (biological capabilities and needs) + (your accumulated values and experiences) ?
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
But not being in the same way, hence not fundamentally similar.
yes, fundamentally similar

comprised of detectable energy
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TRIBALISM = GOOD
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@ebuc
$19.65 billion is only 0.0016% of $1,226 trillion
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Space-time Is What Exactly?
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@sadolite
Time : The distance between to occupied areas of space in the universe. Time and distance are different but are related it takes time to travel a distance.  
can matter exists in the absence of the higgs field ?
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Space-time Is What Exactly?
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@ebuc
And I say this again, as I have many in many posts, Gravity and Dark Energy are best catagorised as Meta-physical.
interesting proposal
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Space-time Is What Exactly?
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@ebuc
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TRIBALISM = GOOD
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@zedvictor4
So Bitcoin is subject to all the same rules as any other currency?
except for the fact that it cannot inflate and transactions cannot be blocked


Therefore, what is the current value of Bitcion in U.S. Dollars?
1 bitcoin = $67,910

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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@Tradesecret
As for revelation being gnosis, you are going to have to articulate that further before I engage.
GNOSIS refers to spiritual or mystical knowledge gained through direct personal experience
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Capitalism sucks! Socialism (Government planned economy) is the best system!
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@Best.Korea
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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@ADreamOfLiberty
among a group of sapients it is objective in the context of that group.
that's called "intersubjective"
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is there any evidence that humans are more than elaborate flesh robots?
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@n8nrgim
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I stand for free speech
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@TheUnderdog

five types of government that require censorship by definition

1. Authoritarianism
2. Totalitarianism
3. Dictatorship
4. Theocracy
5. Military Junta
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I stand for free speech
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@TheUnderdog
Socialism = Communism - censorship of conservative hate speech.
censorship is not integral to either definition
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
Who says I need to observe them to understand that it is possible? This is a question of reasoning, not evidence.
what mechanism would enable two fundamentally dissimilar substances to interact ?
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is there any evidence that humans are more than elaborate flesh robots?
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@n8nrgim
were any of these NDE subjects brain-dead ?
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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I don't have a holy book.

how do you distinguish objective-moral-claims from subjective-moral-claims ?
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
What is it about "disimilarity" implies two things cannot interact?

similar substances interact proportionally to their similarity


have you ever observed two fundamentally dissimilar substances interacting ?
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TRIBALISM = GOOD
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@zedvictor4
How is the exchange rate calculated?
market rate

just like currency

just like gold

just like wheat

just like stock
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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If there is no objective morality, there is no morality.
does your holy book explain if it is objectively moral for patents to expire after 20 years ?
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I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise
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@Tradesecret
After all, why would I bother discussing which god is right - if you don't believe any god exists? 
tons of "god(s)" "exist"

your argument for "revelation" is simply an argument for GNOSIS
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I stand for free speech
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@TheUnderdog
No; that would be communist (not an exagerration).
i'm not sure a community centered social structure demands censorship
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What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@MAV99
I am saying there is no reason to think that things that do not have the same fundamental substratum cannot interact.
similar substances interact proportionally to their similarity

by definition, fundamentally dissimilar substances are mutually undetectable
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