Total posts: 14,582
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@MAV99
You seem to be saying that an action is caused before it is caused. That is absurd.
well, it can't be caused AFTER it is caused
causes precede causes
that's what we call "cause-and-effect"
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@zedvictor4
Which I see you've valued in dollars.
would you like that in bushels of grain ?
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@zedvictor4
Bitcoin is more like stock?
right, except for stock can be manipulated
stock can be split or reverse-split
shares can be converted from voting shares to non-voting shares
bitcoin is deployed at a steady rate that is cut in half at predictable intervals
and the total will never be more than twenty one million bitcoin
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@MAV99
Universal causality does not mean there can be no free will.
if your actions are caused they are inevitable
the only way to break inevitability is to add randomness
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@MAV99
I still do not think free will has anything to do with prediction.
what percentage of a specific decision is based on information ?
just a rough guess
if you have two flavors of ice cream in your freezer
and they are both unopened
of course, you know what ice cream is because of your experience - - you've accumulated data on the topic
you also know where your freezer is located
and probably a spoon
you can imagine how good you are going to feel while it melts in your mouth
some of this can clearly be traced to the universal chain of cause-and-effect
but how much, what fills the gap between the orchestra of causality and your "choice" ?
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@MAV99
How is it a prediction?
you choose the flavor that you predict will result in a future state of enjoyment that is preferable to the future state of another choice
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@MAV99
Before obviously. What are you trying to get at by that question?
whether it's a short term or long term goal, you're still making a prediction about the future
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@MAV99
I know, here and now, that I have vanilla ice cream and chocolate ice cream in front of me.
do you decide to eat the ice cream before or after you eat the ice cream ?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
When laws can't be understood by an average citizen you're not living in a free country. I declare any law that requires college to be understood to be unconstitutionally vague, obtuse, or esoteric.
CORPUS JURIS CIVILIS
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@Double_R
You don't seem very interested in understanding the law since you keep bringing this up but haven't attempted anythin a single legal argument.
you've specifically and repeatedly stated that you don't want to get into the legal details
all of the cases prosecuted under statutes using the language of "defrauded voters" are cases of ballot tampering
1. The 1876 election in Florida, known as the "Great Fraud of 1876."
2. The 1948 Texas Senate election, where ballot tampering was alleged.
3. The 1982 Illinois gubernatorial election, involving voter fraud and ballot tampering.
4. The 2004 mayoral election in East Chicago, Indiana, marred by ballot tampering.
5. The 2018 North Carolina 9th Congressional District election, which led to a new due to ballot tampering.
6. The 2020 municipal election in Paterson, New Jersey, where ballot tampering was uncovered.
7. The 1960 presidential election in Chicago, with allegations of ballot tampering.
8. The 2000 presidential election in Florida, with the infamous "hanging chads" controversy.
9. The 2013 mayoral election in Troy, New York, involving ballot tampering.
10. The 2016 Brexit referendum in the UK, with concerns raised about ballot tampering.
2. The 1948 Texas Senate election, where ballot tampering was alleged.
3. The 1982 Illinois gubernatorial election, involving voter fraud and ballot tampering.
4. The 2004 mayoral election in East Chicago, Indiana, marred by ballot tampering.
5. The 2018 North Carolina 9th Congressional District election, which led to a new due to ballot tampering.
6. The 2020 municipal election in Paterson, New Jersey, where ballot tampering was uncovered.
7. The 1960 presidential election in Chicago, with allegations of ballot tampering.
8. The 2000 presidential election in Florida, with the infamous "hanging chads" controversy.
9. The 2013 mayoral election in Troy, New York, involving ballot tampering.
10. The 2016 Brexit referendum in the UK, with concerns raised about ballot tampering.
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@Double_R
I don't think newspapers paying for stories so that they could not report them is common practice, but that's just a hunch.
list ten examples of politicians hiding information about an affair during an election
1. John Edwards
2. Gary Hart
3. Bill Clinton
4. Mark Sanford
5. Eliot Spitzer
6. Anthony Weiner
7. Gavin Newsom
8. Jesse Jackson
9. Larry Craig
10. Arnold Schwarzenegger
7. Gavin Newsom
8. Jesse Jackson
9. Larry Craig
10. Arnold Schwarzenegger
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@MAV99
I make a conscious deliberate descision about what I know here and now. It has nothing to do with trying to predict the future.
please provide an example
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@MAV99
You are basically saying here that free will needs a "misunderstanding" to be free because you said "random noise" is a misunderstanding of enviorment/ quantum flux.
you only make a deliberate conscious decision when you are trying to predict the future and you are less than 100% positive
you weigh pros and cons based on your experience and intuition
an omniscient omnipotent creator already knows all futures with 100% certainty and therefore cannot make a deliberate conscious decision
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@Mall
Depends on how you use the word . That's any word.
step one - define terms
step two - build a logical claim with those terms
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@zedvictor4
If I had 100 Sterling and bought X Bitcoin, I would therefore be wealthier?
the key advantage of bitcoin is that it can't be printed on demand
and nobody can block direct transfers
2014 a bitcoin is $500
2023 a bitcoin is $65,000
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@Double_R
Therefore, your original statement that there is no legal precedent for this is irrelevant. That's not an argument against the charges.
right, but the alleged "crime" is COMMON PRACTICE
if killing a story in the middle of an election was rare, or unprecedented, then there might be an argument for it being a "crime"
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@Best.Korea
If person has right to live, by logic you cannot kill him even if it saves 5 people.
bingo
if you flip that trolley switch, you're a murderer
if you do nothing
you're an innocent bystander
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@ADreamOfLiberty
In general, the reason laws exist is to remove discretion from government to minimize tyranny and abuse. Laws are pointless (or worse) to the degree they allow discretion.
well stated
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@MAV99
design + accumulated data + random noise = "ability to choose"
i mean
you can't "make a choice"
if you don't know how to detect "a choice"
so there are some obvious context-sensitive prerequisites
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@MAV99
And what does "random noise" mean?
any misunderstanding of the environment and or quantum flux
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@Double_R
The case is far more complicated than that, but setting that aside... If no prior legal precedent was a valid reason for acquittal then no crime could have ever been charged under our legal system.
your claim is provably false
if a crime is clearly defined in the law
it doesn't matter if there is a legal precedent or not
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@Mall
We can keep going on and on. Bottomline is I can claim a fact that actually is one or anything yet to be proven to be depending on how the word "claim" is used.
it sounds like you're simply proposing definitions
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@MAV99
Or you would not have free will.
design + experience + random noise = your will
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@MAV99
And your point is what?
your actions are the manifest will of the creator
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@Mall
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@Mall
Which all of which translates to what in English?
most of them are approximations of the english word "fact"
but not exact one-to-one translations
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@zedvictor4
Yep, I think that it's fair to assume that currency systems will evolve electronically.Bitcoin is a nominal alternative, though still valued relative to the Dollar.Which is sort of how the system has always worked. Isn't it?
bitcoin trades in nearly every country in the world
rupees, rubles, yen, shillings
not just USD
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@cristo71
This here is what I call a double-edged sword because it makes just as much sense with the terms reversed:
that's the entire point of the question
the answer should be an OBVIOUS "never in a million years"
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@MAV99
I am not quite sure what your point is here. Where are you trying to go with this?
your "soul" is designed by the creator
the creator knows how your "soul" will react in every conceivable situation
the creator also knows what specific data your "soul" will accumulate
and if the creator wanted you to be any different (perhaps happier, smarter, more holy or whatever)
it would have simply used a different "soul" variation
your "soul" is a known quantity to the creator
easily predictable
a foregone conclusion
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@MAV99
That is an exceptionally broad use of the word "experiance"
in the sense that all objects record data
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Apparently they care about due process, proving them more trustworthy than Hamas who has arrested no one for all the raping and murdering.
they're a little preoccupied at the moment
please hold for assistance
your call is very important to us
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Here is the indictment for you to better understand
your link is paywalled
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I am not saying I know that everyone Israel kills is guilty, I am saying you don't know that they're not anymore than I do.
we don't know so we can safely assume all the dead families are pure evil
imagine if all two and a half million hamas terrorists had attacked on october seventh
i guess those idiots missed their chance
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant on Sunday signed administrative detention warrants for five Jewish settlers suspected of taking part in reprisals against Palestinians following the recent slaying of an Israeli teenager in the West Bank.
The arrest warrants were announced in a statement from Honenu, a far-right group providing legal representation to the suspects, which said five settlers were arrested Sunday morning by police in the West Bank.
Yoav Gallant (Hebrew: יוֹאָב גָּלַנְטְ; born 8 November 1958) is an Israeli politician and retired military general. A member of the Knesset for Likud, he has served as Minister of Defense since 2022. He is a former commander of the Southern Command in the Israel Defense Forces.
apparently the west bank police do what the israeli defense minister tells them to do
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@ADreamOfLiberty
There is only one reason the IDF would give for bombing someone, that is that they are a real and present threat. Clearly they are not suffering from general paranoia.
this is the most delusional statement i've read all year
they're guilty BECAUSE they're being bombed
ok
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@ADreamOfLiberty
His body was found a day later, and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said he had been killed in a "terrorist attack".Ah, there we go. Murdering children... again.
one kid goes missing and is later found dead
obviously it was my neighborzzzzzz
because kids don't ever go missing or end up dead for any other reason evar
no point in waiting for the authorities to you know, investigate and make arrests or anything
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@MAV99
"A rock accumulates data and exhibits behavior..." You need to explain that to me. How in the world does a rock exhibit bahavior? What do you mean by that?
a rock was formed somehow
right
different types of rock are identified by how they were formed
how the rock was formed dictates its properties
how the rock was formed dictates its shape size hardness consistency and location
the rock contains information about how it was formed and where it is from
even the geographic location of ancient pottery (and rocks) can be identified by its faint magnetic field
over time
the rock accumulates experiences
changes in temperature
erosion
physical damage
and usually they get smaller and smaller until finally they end up as gravel and then sand or dust
rocks have a life cycle
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@MAV99
What about purpose? Is that in your equation?
we're still talking about function
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@MAV99
One will very quickly fall into absurdities if this is his process of thought.
not absurdities
a rock has a nature and accumulates data and exhibits behavior that is exactly the sum of these things
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@MAV99
To say that because we can see a very general similiarity in functionality imlies that we are talking about the same thing is absurd. Youy might as well say that an axe and a blender are the same thing because they chop and slice. or that "a river and a flood and the ocean and a lake are the same thing because they have flowing water."
i never said it was the same "thing"
i'm saying the same logical principles apply to both
each has a nature presumably engineered by the creator
each accumulates data and produces output that is some combination of its design + accumulated data + some small measure of random noise = 100%
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@MAV99
And no, I still do not think functunionality determines whatness.
i don't care what you call it
i only care about function
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@MAV99
The soul of a person is different from the human mind.
sure, we agree on that
one is quantifiable and the other is not
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Isn't the simplest explanation that they're reacting to the assembly of kill squads?You don't need to assume some form of insanity since a bunch of kill squads is exactly what attacked them on October 7th. You also don't need to explain why this supposed rampant racial hatred that doesn't manifest against arabs within firm Israeli territory (where the arabs that are content with the Israeli state live).
In the Israeli-occupied West Bank, a group of Israeli settlers storm a Palestinian village and, captured on CCTV, a masked man sets fire to a car parked in a garage, under the watch of at least three Israeli soldiers.
The incident was part of a rampage by Israeli settlers that, according to local officials, killed four Palestinians over four days.
The violence was triggered by the disappearance of 14-year-old Binyamin Ahimeir, who went missing on Friday after leaving his settler outpost to herd sheep near the Palestinian village of Mughayir, in the Ramallah area.
His body was found a day later, and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said he had been killed in a "terrorist attack".
Amid the search for the boy, dozens of settlers, some of them armed, raided Mughayir. They burned homes and cars, and killed a 25-year-old man named Jihad Abu Alia with a shot in the chest, according to Palestinian officials. [[LINK]]
ok, so
instead of waiting for the cops to investigate and make an arrest
they just start attacking their neighbors
seems extremely reasonable and civilized
and not racist at all
where are you hearing about "kill squads" in the west bank ?
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@MAV99
That is not really the language I would use. You can say that as long as you understand that The data is not something material.
sure, "souls" store data differently than brains and computers
i don't care exactly how they do it
if they have a nature and they accumulate data
then they are functionally indistinguishable from my description of a human mind
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@zedvictor4
Yep, it would/will be interesting to see how earn, pay and buy systems develop.Though I would suggest that we are all enslaved by need and expectation.
it's developing nicely in el salvador
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Nobody sensible is claiming there aren't combatants in the west bank either. Israel has nothing to gain by bombing true civilians.
if they're not interested in territory
it's probably just good old-fashioned racism
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@Mall
Assigning objective truths as moral values is valid over arguing morality is objective.
are you perhaps familiar with HUME'S GUILLOTINE ?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
They had all that territory. They controlled down to the Suez. They gave it up in the hope of peace.
ok, i guess that means they can kill anybody they wish
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@RaymondSheen
a personal suggestion of an ideological nature
is this suggestion salient to the current discussion ?
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@Savant
there's no clear consensus among philosophers
PRIMAL ETHICS
(1) PROTECT YOURSELF
(2) PROTECT YOUR FAMILY
(3) PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY
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