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@Polytheist-Witch
There is no proof Jesus walked the Earth. Myth is myth. That doesn't make it false. Religious text should not prove anything but transfer information to believers
Sure, maybe, but the point is that EVEN IFF they are treated as historical fact, that does absolutely nothing to support their religious teachings.
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@janesix
Jesus is a mythology, as was Gilgamesh.They are true mythology,as in they are archetypes of the human soul in transmutation.
Sure, maybe, but the point is that EVEN IFF they are treated as historical fact, that does absolutely nothing to support their religious teachings.
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@Ramshutu
The evidence of a worldwide is mostly exactly the same as the evidence for a local flood, Except global.For example:Flood detritus, rocks and sediment, including unsorted layers of dead animals covering the entire globe. Silt, sediment and water bound mineral penetration of all similar ages layers over the entire globe. Historical evidence of every recorded civilization alive at the time being wiped out, with various ancient cities showing evidence of flooding and water damage.
Well stated.
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@ronjs
The area near the "fertile crescent" where the Tigress and Euphrates rivers split, is the historical setting for the adventures of Gilgamesh and the Jewish "Garden of Eden". Being stuck between two rivers would seem to make your villages vulnerable to occasional flooding.
Ok, so when Enki (a.k.a. EA, the god of water, knowledge, and creation) tells Utnapishtim (Noah) to demolish his house and build a boat to save his family from the super top secret scheduled flood, THIS IS HISTORICAL FACT.
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@Polytheist-Witch
In the beginning there was the yawning emptiness of potential power called Ginnungagap whence two regions emerged: First Muspelheim was created in the south, full of fire, light and heat; and then Niflheim in the north, full of arctic waters, mists, and cold. As heat and cold met in Ginnungagap when sparks and smoke from the south and layers of rime poured into it, a living jotunn, Ymir, appeared in the melting ice. Just saying.
Well stated.
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The Jesus was a real, historical human being.
The (historically verifiable) prophecies of the Jewish and Christian scriptures are 100% true.
Neither of these things lend the slightest credibility to either the Jewish or Christian religious beliefs.
In the exact same way,
Gilgamesh was a real, historical human being.
The (historically verifiable) events and prophecies of the Epic of Gilgamesh are 100% true.
Neither of these things lend the slightest credibility to the ancient Sumerian religious beliefs.
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@Polytheist-Witch
If we have the tech to give you prison fix the criminal mind instead.
Do you have any theories about how to do that?
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@oromagi
Yeah, but if the technology to program and experience years of memory without losing actual life existed, the demand would be so high that the tech would be perceived as wasted on fake jail.
I'm not sure it would be "wasted" on fake jail. Let's say a prisoner costs $40,000 per year, 20 years would be, not including inflation, $800,000 - so as long as the "treatment" was less than $800,000 per person (OR) with an estimated 1,506,800 federal inmates that would be $60,272,000,000 dollars per year - so as long as the "treatment" was less expensive than that, in toto, then it would seem to be worth the trouble. Plus, the land that is currently occupied by prisons could be re-purposed for housing or shopping or offices or any number of other tax revenue boosting schemes.
I think you'd like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DnLmuCcKRkIf the tech is expensive, than education, training, therapy, and especially warfare would be prioritized. If the tech is cheap, then entertainment would absorb demand so entirely that it would be hard to get anybody to do much of anything. If people wanted to do crime, they could do it in memory without actual harm.
There would have to be some constraints on the recording mechanism.
In "Strange Days" the recordings can only be made while a special rig is worn on your head, while the activity is actually being experienced (AND) the tapes cannot be copied or edited. These restrictions seem to make the experiences more precious.
However, in "Total Recall" and "Blade Runner", the memories can be fabricated and seem to be a proprietary technology controlled by a single corporation.
In "Ghost in the Shell", the government (or a skilled hacker) seems to have the ability to selectively erase and fabricate memories, but they can't restore original memories (without some sort of backup, presumably).
All of that aside, my main point here is that, if it was easy to give convicted criminals a very authentic 20 year long prison experience instantaneously, would we want to make it "more humane" (splice out all the stabbings) than it currently is, or "more horrific" (splice in extra stabbings) than it currently is? Would you mix multiple experiences to increase the length of stay (so you wouldn't have to wait 20 years to implement your new system)? Would you record one year from 20 different people of different races (one for first year and one for second year and one for third year up to year twenty) and then splice them all together?
I'm sure the psychological impact would be pretty serious, but would it be better or worse than an actual 20 year prison sentence?
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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm not sure how you expect me to understand if you refuse to explain.Not what you said but whatever. And you wonder why anyone would call you racist or bigot.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Right. Who cares if people are guilty or not. Who cares if rapist walk free and innocent people fry. Not you obviously.
If we believe the justice system is broken, we should take steps to repair it.
In the mean time, we should abide by the decisions of our current system of judges and appeals.
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@Vader
Also, this is a good example of Abductive reasoning.My friend is a second wave immigrant, who's mom immigrated and was born in America. He gets a free ride in life and goes to Northwestern and University of Illinois with a 3.75 GPA. You know what is happening to them. They are in fucking jail now.
Abductive reasoning: taking your best shot
Abductive reasoning typically begins with an incomplete set of observations and proceeds to the likeliest possible explanation for the set. Abductive reasoning yields the kind of daily decision-making that does its best with the information at hand, which often is incomplete.[LINK]
Abductive reasoning typically begins with an incomplete set of observations and proceeds to the likeliest possible explanation for the set. Abductive reasoning yields the kind of daily decision-making that does its best with the information at hand, which often is incomplete.[LINK]
Your sample size of one is inconclusive.
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@Vader
I'm still not sure what you are suggesting.Since Illinois is a liberal state, they give more full rides to minorities than to the middle class. Add to the fact Trump is shitting on the middle class
Are you saying that only rich kids should get scholarships?
Are you saying that all kids with high scores should get scholarships?
Are you saying that nobody should get scholarships?
Are you saying that everybody should get scholarships?
Are you saying that scholarships should be assigned randomly?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Wealth discrimination accounts for a large percentage of what is identified as "racial discrimination".so you just select which one you wish to apply? hmm ok I guessidentified as =/= truth or fact in the quote above. did you think O.J. was innocent?
Wealthy minorities are generally treated better by the justice system than low income minorities.
Who cares if OJ was "innocent"? We enjoy presumed innocence until proven guilty.
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@Vader
Northwestern and University of Illinois
So is this some sort of state law, or is it just a policy (to give scholarships to minorities) developed by the universities themselves?
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@Greyparrot
Whites are more likely to hire a private attorney than Latinos or blacks, and therefore receive a less severe sentenceThat's wealth discrimination. Has nothing to do with race. Plenty of wealthy Blacks and plenty of poor whites.
Bingo.
Wealth discrimination accounts for a large percentage of what is identified as "racial discrimination".
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@Polytheist-Witch
No you are not. You enjoy being a racist bigot.
Please explain.
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@Polytheist-Witch
No your not.
I am ever so sorry you feel that way.
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@Greyparrot
Cruel and unusual punishment?
Well, you would be pretty much guaranteed physical safety.
Would you rather get an instant 20 years in the can, or would you prefer to actually spend 20 years in an actual can?
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@Polytheist-Witch
I am ever so sorry you feel that way.Because you are a bigot.
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@Greyparrot
The Bureau of Justice Statistics’ 2011 Police-Public Contact Survey indicates that, nationwide, blacks were 31 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over for a traffic stop. - the missing link - https://nypost.com/2015/03/09/ferguson-fake-out-justice-departments-bogus-report/
So you're reasoning is that because nationwide, there is a 31 percent racial bias in traffic stops, that means there is zero bias in Ferguson?
I'm talking about a one-to-one comparison of crimes and sentences.
This is really a matter of common-sense.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Many students believe that their undocumented status will prevent them from attending college. These students may live in fear of being exposed and deported should they apply. This should not be a concern for potential college students as it is against the law for colleges to report a student's immigration status without their permission.
Additionally, they could perceive college as cost-prohibitive because their status makes them ineligible for federal financial aid.While federal financial aid is not an option, there are many financial aid options including scholarships, grants, and private loans to make college more affordable. Undocumented students who are committed to attending college and who fully comprehend the challenges to come can make their educational dreams a reality.
Sounds good to me, I'm still not sure why you seem to be so angry.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Please explain.If I have to you are one too.
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"Instant Prison". Kinda like "Total Recall", but instead of an exciting vacation adventure you get the memories of 20 years in a state penitentiary.
Just imagine a nice, mild mannered accountant whose been caught embezzling millions of dollars. "Instant Prison" and send him home to his wife and kiddos. WTF do you think might happen? - sounds like a pretty good episode of black mirror to me.
This is also like "strange days" and that episode of TNG where picard gets zapped and lives a "lifetime" on an alien planet.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Please explain.Moron.
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@Greyparrot
Taxes are fine. Free trade works as long as the taxes are fair, like sales tax.
What are your preferred parameters for "free trade" and what enforcement mechanisms do you imagine would be ideal?
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@Vader
My friend is a second wave immigrant, who's mom immigrated and was born in America. He gets a free ride in life and goes to Northwestern and University of Illinois with a 3.75 GPA. You know what is happening to them. They are in fucking jail now.
What specific program granted your friend their "free ride"?
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@Greyparrot
Ok, freedom to "associate" is one thing, but isn't commerce supposed to be taxable?That's very true, which is why a constitutional right granting the freedom to associate without government restrictions is vital.
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@Greyparrot
white people are much less likely to be convicted of a crime and when they are, they get lighter sentences.That's actually false according to Obama's and Eric Holder's DOJ findings after the Ferguson riots.
Holder says using static factors from a criminal’s background could perpetuate racial bias in a system that already delivers 20% longer sentences for young black men than for other offenders. Holder supports assessments that are based on behavioral risk factors that inmates can amend, like drug addiction or negative attitudes about the law. And he supports in-prison programs — or back-end assessments — as long as all convicts, including high-risk ones, get the chance to reduce their prison time.[LINK]
The disproportionate number of arrests, tickets and use of force stemmed from “unlawful bias,” rather than black people committing more crime.[LINK]
Please explain.
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@Greyparrot
Lawyers can't do anything if the laws themselves are the problem.More importantly, Lawyers eliminate power abuses and the typical "might is right" crap you see in Eurotrash nations.
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@Nd24007
I like what you're saying in general, government bad, banks bad.
But how do you propose we protect the hard-working-self-made-rugged-individualist-entrepreneur?
Like in the classic 1971 movie "McCabe and Mrs. Miller"?
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@Vader
Well, on the bright side, white people are much less likely to be convicted of a crime and when they are, they get lighter sentences.
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@Alec
It's not all about the woman. It's also about the fetus that she in most situations chose to conceive. A fetus's life is more valuable then a woman's convenience.
Citizens have personal sovereignty.
An embryo is a foreign invader.
We must deport all foreign invaders.
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The original fighting words doctrine was born out of Chaplinsky v. State of New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942). Chaplinsky, a Jehovah’s Witness, was convicted of disturbing the peace for yelling at a local sheriff, “You are a God damned racketeer” and “a damned Fascist” and for further remarking, “the whole government of Rochester are Fascists or agents of Fascists.” The Supreme Court upheld his conviction, creating a narrow category of speech—“fighting words”—that did not enjoy the protections of the First Amendment. The fighting words doctrine, as originally announced in Chaplinsky, found that two types of speech were not protected—words that by their very utterance inflict injury, and speech that incites an immediate breach of the peace. [LINK]
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@Outplayz
I don't know what would happen to say i prefer death. That is too sure of a statement. It could be something insanely cool. It could be the same ole stuff. It could be horrible... who knows. I just doubt it is insanely good bc if it was, why even be here. If i had to guess it's the same ole, boring, dull or maybe even hellish. That's where i would put my money. I wonder... why do you hate considering it as a possibility?
"If i had to guess it's the same ole, boring, dull or maybe even hellish." - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477139/
In this movie, if someone commits suicide, they go to a place that is just very slightly worse than the last life they had.
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@Plisken
Thank goodness fat people aren't allowed to victimize us. America would be done for
Imagine the horror of living in a society without ad hominems!!!!!!!
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@Greyparrot
Go into a biker bar and start calling people chickie. See what happens.Go into a tranny bar and start calling people dude. See what happens.
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@Greyparrot
It's illegal to call a transgender "Dude"
Let me know when Steven Tyler gets arrested for this.
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@PGA2.0
The Jesus was a real, historical human being.Is this something you are admitting or is there another point you are driving at?The (historically verifiable) prophecies of the Jewish and Christian scriptures are 100% true.If they are what they claim to be (God's revelation) this would logically be the case.Neither of these things lend the slightest credibility to either the Jewish or Christian religious beliefs.I'm not following in relation to what your statements are a reference to from what I have said? They come out of the blue. Please supply the context.
For example,
Gilgamesh was a real, historical human being.
The (historically verifiable) events and prophecies of the Epic of Gilgamesh are 100% true.
Neither of these things lend the slightest credibility to the ancient Sumerian religious beliefs.
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@Greyparrot
Your statement is provably false.You can now be fined for singing this song.
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@Alec
Me calling a trans person by their biologically accurate name is factual not "malicious". It also is almost never harassment, unless I yell at them their original name multiple times or something similar. How are they more vulnerable then the average person?
It's only "factual" if you've seen them without clothes.
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@keithprosser
The electricity of a broken dynamo doesn't go anywhere - it ceases to be.
According to the law of "conservation of energy" - energy cannot be created or destroyed, so it never "ceases to be".
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@Outplayz
@keithprosser
Of course, if you are wrong you won't know you're wrong!
Just because you can't verify something scientifically doesn't make it necessarily false, for example, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m92yvNscIAo
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@PGA2.0
The Jesus was a real, historical human being.
The (historically verifiable) prophecies of the Jewish and Christian scriptures are 100% true.
Neither of these things lend the slightest credibility to either the Jewish or Christian religious beliefs.
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@keithprosser
Right, the fact that these writers were aware of the significance of the prophecies, they were highly motivated to make them fit.But in Mathew we read "They brought the donkey and the colt and placed their cloaks on them for Jesus to sit on." Quite clearly two animals. Not only that but jesus sits on them both - presumbly like some sort of circus act! It seems likely that Matthew didn't identify the poetic aspect and took Zechariah literally. In other words he wasn't a witness but adapted what he found in the old scripture to construct his tale.
Sort of a case of "self-fulfilling prophecy".
However, even if the prophecies were 100% authentic, they do nothing to authenticate the "divinity" of the Jesus.
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@PGA2.0
Again, it does not list any prophecies/predictions except vaguely and that in regards to Groundhog Day. It gives no stats on the 100% accuracy rate that you cited in your previous post. It also describes how he uses the latest weather technology, yet how does he predict things that will happen years, decades, centuries in advance, and how would you verify he could since he lives in our day and age. And how do his predictions tell of the fall of a people or the specifics that would take place before this happened, sometimes hundreds of years before the fact?
You're moving the goal-posts. You only stipulated,
Show me a human/humans who has/have made hundreds of prediction before the facts that have come to pass.
You never said, "inspired by a god" or "years and or centuries in advance" or "100% accuracy".
Really, if you're just going to change you criteria every time I give you an answer, this is going to be a very lolong conversation.
I mean, sea-level rise was predicted "years in advance" and "before it came to pass", does that count?
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@keithprosser
Ok, EVERYBODY CHIME IN, on a scale of zero to 100, how much do you HATE THE BABY JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@disgusted
Save it for the ring.My question was why and you aren't qualified to answer.
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@keithprosser
Are you assuming any credibility to the Abraham legend? There are many reasons to suppose he is no more real than Adam and Eve. Abram translates as 'Exalted Father' and is renamed by YHWH as Abraham ('father of many') (Gen 17:5). The aptness of the names can hardly be accidental!I am very much a 'minimalist' - I think there is practically no reliable history in the pentateuch.
Ah, well, um, I kinda think it's moot.
It turns into a wild-goose-chase (red-herring) if you try to dispute "historical evidence".
I think one of these guys made the point for me, which is, even if the Epic of Gilgamesh is historically accurate and super old, and corroborated by independent sources, that does not mean any of the "miracles" or "amazing feats" or "gods" or anything else described therein is strictly accurate or "true".
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@PGA2.0
Historical evidence of the Jesus is moot.That is your personal opinion and is a result of your worldview bias.
Historical evidence of the Jesus makes it credible the teachings could come or are based on what he said, not that the texts are accurate/true.
There is historical evidence of Siddhartha, does this make Buddhism true?It makes it credible the teachings could come or are based on what he said, not that the texts are accurate/true.Again, the problem with religions is that each one is contrary to the other in some major understanding of God/gods/lack of gods, Thus, logically only one, if you grant any is true to what is.And if there is no ultimate revelation from God what makes your views any truer than any other view, after all, you are a limited, subjective, relative person? In other words, why should I value your personal opinion or preference?
I've never suggested that any of this is merely "my opinion", I have instead, repeatedly harped on logical coherence and epistemological limits.
There is historical evidence of Joseph Smith, does this make Mormonism true?No. The book is contradictory to the Bible in which it recognizes as from God also.
I'm sure the Mormons have a litany of apologists who would gladly explain "the correct interpretation" to you.
There is historical evidence of Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, does this make Scientology true?No, Scientology is a cult that has been exposed by its inconsistencies.
Are you absolutely certain those supposed "inconsistencies" are not simply "incorrect interpretations"?
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@PGA2.0
If that is the case, I have the exact same question. Why did the "YHWH" wait so long to write anything down?Except for the Ten Commandments, what is it you are claiming God wrote down?
The inspired "word of god".
I'm asking why the "YHWH" waited until the bronze age to communicate its message.
I'm asking why the "YHWH" didn't just send down one or more of its "holy hitmen" along with a "talking donkey" to "communicate with" or otherwise "reason with" the leaders of all those supposedly false religions?
Couldn't the "YHWH" have popped little "holy assassins" and "talking donkeys" down to earth in order to "reason with" the misguided followers of Ahura Mazda?Why? Everything needed for salvation had been revealed through His covenant people and by Jesus.
The followers of Ahura Mazda lived centuries before the Jesus was even born. How exactly were they supposed to know about Jesus?
Nothing else needs to be said. You have what is needed for salvation. The teachings of Zoroastrianism is contrary to the Hebrew Bible and the NT. That means something does not ring true somewhere.
The fact that Zoroastrianism is contrary to the Hebrew teachings does nothing to validate or invalidate either the Hebrew teachings or Zoroastrianism.
It also lends some credibility to the idea that Abraham's concept of god and heavenly hosts was very likely shaped by this pre-existing religion.Or their religion by his and those before him, but they corrupted the belief.Based on what? Wouldn't you need some historical basis for this perfectly bald assertion?Once you understand the original you are better able to recognize counterfeits.Based on what? The same that you are basing your assertions of Abraham on, your assumption, but more, the biblical account itself that teaches against gods as anything other than human constructs. The historical basis would be the Scriptures themselves.
You can't use your own scriptures to validate your own scriptures.
You are assuming that these religions are being borrowed from rather than the other way around.
You are assuming that Christianity is being borrowed from, even before it existed in the first place.
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