Total posts: 14,582
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Feudalism is closer to socialism than capitalism. Look it up.
if a corporation (or cartel) owns all land and water and power in an area
they are functionally indistinguishable from a feudal lord
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State socialism is ownership centralized in the hands of the government.
so is state-capitalism
i wonder what the difference is ????
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@whiteflame
I think the most charitable interpretation I can give your argument is that there is room for the Supreme Court to potentially change the standard by which the 14th amendment grants citizenship. Even if you're right and the implementation of the birthright clause has been bastardized and abused, it doesn't change the reality of how it's been enforced up to this point, nor does it change the fact that Kamala Harris was born more than 59 years ago and thus was born into a country where the clause had been enforced that way.It's fine if you don't agree, but your interpretation doesn't change Kamala's legal standing. The absence of a Supreme Court case directly challenging it doesn't serve as support for your case on the constitutionality of the way the birthright clause has been enforced, either. I'm not challenging the merits of your argument because, unless you can somehow get the Supreme Court to take up this case, they're irrelevant, and even if they did, they're over 59 years too late to do so. The Supreme Court isn't going to retroactively deny people the citizenship they were born with.So, while I think there are lots of problems with your argument, it's entirely besides the point because your argument in no way impacts Kamala Harris's status as a US citizen. You can be entirely correct and still her legal standing doesn't change.
well stated
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the topic remains that three real world examples exist where a previously socialist state morphed in a fascist state
more specifically, YOU CLAIM something you've very vaguely defined as "socialist-state" is always 100% of the time prerequisite to the formation of something you've very vaguely defined as "fascist-state"
what are the three examples you personally believe prove your case ?
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what would you call a system of governance that is NOT based on capitalism ?
one example you might not be familiar with is called "state-socialism"
you might think that "monarchy" and or "feudalism" is not based on capitalism, but if you understand that capitalism is a system of ownership
then it becomes obvious that "monarchy" and or "feudalism" is extremely capitalistic
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Well, this restaurant was funded by a large group of people who put up the start up money to open the restaurant. Some in this group were then employed by the restaurant. They were part owners, and the distribution of profits was determined by the group. Some was paid out to workers, some was given to charity, and some was reinvested into the restaurant. Some profit was returned to the investors. Some money was used for a weekly "soup kitchen" for the needy.
what you've described is a hybrid capitalist + socialist enterprise
like nearly every society on planet earth
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Capitalism as a basis for governance is NOT the same as "state capitalism"
ok, what would you call a system of governance that is based on capitalism ?
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A restaurant serves the public. Is it socialist?
where does the funding come from for this restaurant
and where do the profits end up ?
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I never said they were "capitalist" or "socialist". Neither is true.
ok, what is this third category called ?
"monarchy" ?
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State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e., for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, centralized management and wage labor). The definition can also include the state dominance of corporatized government agencies (agencies organized using business-management practices) or of public companies (such as publicly listed corporations) in which the state has controlling shares.[1]
A state-capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts as a single huge corporation, extracting surplus value from the workforce in order to invest it in further production.[2]
(IFF) state-capitalism can be distinguished from non-state-capitalism (THEN) state-socialism can be distinguished from non-state-socialism
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@HistoryBuff
umm, ok. I'm not really sure why you are drawing my attention to post 37 though.
case in point
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@Best.Korea
thanks for the update
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You stated earlier that having public schools is socialism, but you never cited a source that agrees with your "opinion".
please explain how public schools are "capitalist" institutions
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Also economic and social systems cry out as a theory of a particular form of government.
i see, i guess that's why we call "capitalism" a form of government
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@HistoryBuff
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@ADreamOfLiberty
You can't know whether a falsehood will be comfortable unless you know the truth.
that's like saying you can't know whether a bed will be comfortable unless you first try sleeping on a rock
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Also define exactly what a naked assertion is using source material.
" in actuality, most socialist governments have ended up being no more than dictatorships over workers "
a definition does not include claims like, "everyone who says they believe in this idea is a liar"
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"Socialism is not a government. It is a form of ownership" ( 3ru7AL stated this without source)
Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems[1] characterised by social ownership of the means of production,[2] as opposed to private ownership.[3][4][5] It describes the economic, political, and social theories and movements associated with the implementation of such systems.[6] Social ownership can take various forms, including public, community, collective, cooperative,[7][8][9] or employee.[10][11]
SAME SOURCE AS BEFORE
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@TheUnderdog
Corporations; this is why Citizens United should be repealed.
by whom ?
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You said earlier that the CIA did not define "socialist state"The CIA does define "socialist State"....but you will not find that EXACT term used, so YOU must use your reasoning power (?) to extrapolate. ( good luck to all who read what 3ru7al comes back with. )"socialism - a government in which the means of planning, producing, and distributing goods is controlled by a central government that theoretically seeks a more just and equitable distribution of property and labor; in actuality, most socialist governments have ended up being no more than dictatorships over workers by a ruling elite." ( https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/government-type/). [ Emphasis Mine ]
this is less of a functioning definition
and more of a naked assertion
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Maybe it isn't false opinion
perhaps you have a better example of a FALSE opinion ?
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@DavidAZZ
ask yourself three questions
(1) where does your food come from ?
(2) where do the cops get their guns ?
(3) where does your fuel and power come from ?
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#234Much of the "25 point plan" contained socialist ideas.how much of this do you think was simply false promisesand which specifically "socialist" policies were actually implemented ?Check the source.
i'm not going to make YOUR argument for you
if you refuse to present SPECIFICS
i remain unconvinced
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#235Answered and proved.
not even close to "proved"
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#228You statedAccording to the general theory of relativity, the Sun does orbit the Earth. And the Earth orbits the Sun. And they both orbit together around a place in between. And both the Sun and the Earth are orbiting the Moon.In making judgments and calculations about real world conditions, there are certain factors so minor that they can be taken as zero.From the source you cited...."Of course, that is a very ponderous approach, and although the equations will work, in principle, they will be very awkward and tricky. So scientists never use them.Why do we use a system in which the Sun is at rest (or in uniform motion)? Because then the equations are simple, intuitive, and (relatively) easy to solve. That is often the trick in physics: find a coordinate system in which the equations of motion are so simple that you can guess the right answer."Quid est proximum vadum laicorum
none of this supports your claim that it is a FALSE OPINION to say that "the sun revolves around the earth"
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ask yourself three questions
(1) where does your food come from ?
(2) where do the cops get their guns ?
(3) where does your fuel and power come from ?
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@TheUnderdog
You can be anti-inflation while also wanting to tax the globalists more. They aren't mutually exclusive.
where do you think lawmakers get their campaign funds ?
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@DavidAZZ
An uncomfortable truth. A lie will always catch up with you. A truth can help you see life better, regardless of how bad it is.
you will slowly go blind
lose your hearing
become less mobile
weaker and more forgetful
this is inevitable
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@TheUnderdog
you clearly have no idea how money worksWhat relavent information am I missing?
the government and the international banking cartels
CREATE MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR
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If some people who ate hot dogs developed food poisoning, the Public Health department could name the hot dog as a precursor to food poisoning.
ok, so
not all socialist states turn fascist
but all fascist states started out as socialists
do you agree with these two statements ?
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Much of the "25 point plan" contained socialist ideas.
how much of this do you think was simply false promises
and which specifically "socialist" policies were actually implemented ?
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they will be very awkward and tricky
in other words
NOT FALSE
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@cristo71
“Stochastic terrorism” is an academic term designed to curb free speech a la “hate speech” laws and is ripe for abuse. “Incitement to terrorism” already covers what needs to be covered.
well stated
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do you have some examples of "true" opinionsThe earth orbits around the Sun.do you have some examples of "false" opinionsThe Sun orbits around the Earth
According to the general theory of relativity, the Sun does orbit the Earth. And the Earth orbits the Sun. And they both orbit together around a place in between. And both the Sun and the Earth are orbiting the Moon.
General relativity allows the use of any coordinate system. Pick a system in which the center of the Earth is fixed; indeed, it can be a system in which the Earth is not even rotating about its axis. Then you can derive all the equations of motion in this system. In this system, the Sun is moving, not the Earth.
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The NSDAP, or National Socialist German Workers' Party, a far-right political party in Germany led by Adolf Hitler. Despite the name, it was not a socialist party but promoted nationalist and fascist ideologies.Provide a source for this statement.
Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party.
Fact-checked by: The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica
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Also all of #219 was a "dodge" on your part.
sure you SAY you disagree with it
so why are you using it to fabricate an argument ?
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ok, clearly you've decided to abandon any attempt to define "socialist state"Yet another false opinion.I was clearly awaiting YOUR definition. The ones you offered were refuted. Still awaiting a final and concise def.
the claim under consideration is YOUR claim - "socialism is a necessary precursor to fascism"
i disagree, but i am trying to help you steel-man your case
i thought that perhaps you considered any state with a ruling party that uses the term "socialist" in their title or in their constitution to be a "socialist state"
but you said that is not the case
i thought that perhaps after you sung the praises of the cia, that you must subscribe to their definition of "state socialism"
but strangely, cia.gov does not contain a list of "socialist states" and they provide no definition of "state socialism"
i thought that perhaps you considered SOCIALIST STATE equivalent to TOTALITARIANISM
but you said that is also not the case
do you believe that modern china is socialist, communist, or fascist, or some combination ?
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It's hard to tell as you have not articulated any of them very well, but in #203 you opined that I agreed with your definition, even though I clearly stated that I did not.
in #203 i clearly stated "IF YOU AGREE..."
and then i asked repeatedly if you agree with certain specific statements
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The NSDAP, or National Socialist German Workers' Party, a far-right political party in Germany led by Adolf Hitler. Despite the name, it was not a socialist party but promoted nationalist and fascist ideologies.
i get it now
if someone calls themselves a "socialist party" then they qualify in your mind to be a "socialist state" regardless of their policies
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Did you see where I SAID .."using your definition, WITH WHICH I DO NOT AGREE,"
ok, clearly you've decided to abandon any attempt to define "socialist state"
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There exists in the universe opinions some of which are false; some are true.
do you have some examples of "true" opinions
do you have some examples of "false" opinions
and while we're on the topic, which opinion do you believe i hold that is "false" ?
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@WyIted
the authoritarian scale
is not the same
as the policy scale
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@WyIted
According to this definition of right/left which should be the working definition, are you closer to Hitler the statist or Ron Paul the anti statist?
there are more than two data points on the grid
you need 4 data points
have you looked at the political compass ?
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@TheUnderdog
It increases their tax bill
you clearly have no idea how money works
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@WyIted
putin is very clearly right of center
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