3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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Soaking the Rich
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@Athias
In fact, the government doesn't provide a marketable service
do "security services" and "package delivery" qualify as "marketable services" ?
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@Athias
Case in point: it was incumbent upon the Ukrainian residents to flee their homes rather than oppose Russia's invasion.
this is an interesting comparison
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@Athias
Arguing that one is obligated to pay the government taxes is like arguing one is obligated to pay a local mob "protection money."
well stated
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@secularmerlin
IF humans are worth preserving as a species THEN it is worth affording humans basic necessities and human dignity. 
it doesn't appear to follow that ALL humans are worth preserving
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Curious facts about witchcraft that.....
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@Polytheist-Witch
Two whole people, as you continue to pat people who are anti-theists on their back. Don't bother adding insult to injury. Everyone who posts here knows better.
how many examples do you need ?

i consider myself a DEIST GNOSTIC and TAOIST who happens to be UNCONVINCED of the utility of subscribing to any particular THEISTIC (personality based) GOD(S)
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@Athias
would you equate "human dignity" with "self-worth" ?
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Curious facts about witchcraft that.....
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@Deb-8-a-bull
There would have to of been some.. "  off the chart gullibility levels  " 
well stated
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Curious facts about witchcraft that.....
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@Polytheist-Witch
It's sad to think the only way atheists can be content is if theists no longer exist.  Maybe you guys can come up with a way to take us out then you could have a world that you feel you can be happy and free in. It's sad to think that you can't go through your whole day without thinking about the fact that somebody somewhere doesn't think like you. How horrible it must be when you have an immediate family member like a spouse or a child who has any interest in spirituality that you have to look at them and talk to them and have meals with them when they're just disgusting theists. That you sit while you're eating and look at them and think someday you people will no longer exist. But I'm evil and I'm horrible and I'm lower than you. It would be funny if it wasn't probably the scariest thing if people took any time to really sit and think about it.
many atheists are very spiritual

Alan Watts is a good example

Terence McKenna is another good example
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@secularmerlin
No ones existence is guaranteed or justified.
please elaborate

Either we all merit basic necessities and human dignity or none of us do.
perhaps you could format this as some sort of propositional statement or syllogism
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@Athias
I do not conflate "merit basic necessities" with "human dignity."
how do you personally distinguish the one from the other ?
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@secularmerlin
Since you insinuated that some humans (specifically poor ones) deserve to be deprived of basic necessities and therefore life. You have essentially insinuated that some humans are not worth keeping alive. This is a pretty direct way of communicating how you would gauge human worth. 
There exists a master executioner that kills
If we substitute for the master executioner to kill
It is like substituting for the great carpenter to cut
Those who substitute for the great carpenter to cut
It is rare that they do not hurt their own hands
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Curious facts about witchcraft that.....
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@Deb-8-a-bull
You can picture johnny doing a google search in the year 3000.  (  WHAT WHERE PEOPLE LIKE IN THE YEAR 2000 )   

A slight chuckle will occur.   
When they read  .    ( They believed in gods back then ) 
Thus making what we thought of very little importance.
exactly
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Socialism correlates with higher living standards
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@secularmerlin
Capitalism is pro government but pro a certain kind of government. The kind, not to put to fine a point on it, which does not force them to adopt ethical buisness practices or to take responsibility for the health amd safety of its workers but which does shelter corperations and the financial officers of corperations from financial loss and legal consequences. 
exactly
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Define a universe in your own words
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@Reece101
Only the known exists?
"existence" requires empirical verification and or logical necessity (QUANTA)
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Define a universe in your own words
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@secularmerlin
The entirety of my experience and experiential knowledge as limited by human epistemology. I presume and operate under the assumption that this experience represents an actual physical universe which is to the best of my understanding a sparce collection of physical bodies puncuating the vast silent vacuum of turbulent energy fluctuations that is expanding at relativistic speeds. Expanding into what (or if that is even more than a nonsense notion) is unknown not only to me but also to the brightest and best informed minds on the frontiers of cosmological research. 
well stated
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@Bones
asking for someone's ancestry would likewise be, on your worldview, a violation of privacy,
No, simply asking them to self-identify would be polite.

Demanding an answer would be rude.

Why on earth would you care if someone said they were "black" or not ?

Experts on race relations agree that up until very recently, and to some extent even today, white America held to the “one-drop” rule: if you had one drop of black blood in you — any detectable African ancestry at all — you were black. [**]
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@Bones
you probably need to send their dna to ancestry.com before jumping to any conclusions
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Impersonation campaign.
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@Barney
A rule change seems fine, just carefully and concisely worded. I really don't have the energy right now to launch a referendum, but anyone else may.
as far as i can tell, only one member is in favor of changing the rules
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@Athias
or just cash gifts in general?

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@Athias
does a land tax make any sense to you ?
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@Intelligence_06
what I thought this was common knowledge  ;/
Shipwreck and plane crash victims have resorted to cannibalisms with no long-term negative consequences.

Among anthropologists, the Fore people in Papua New Guinea are known for cannibalism. Up until the late 1950s, they ate the bodies of relatives to cleanse their spirits. Thousands of Fore contracted kuru and died ("kuru" actually comes from the Fore word for shaking). But not all of them fell victim to the disease: Over the last 200 years, some Fore have also developed a genetic mutation that protects them from the prions that transmit kuru.

The Fore were adapting to cannibalism — with natural selection possibly playing a role in reducing their susceptibility to disease. Scientists have been trying to study this further, but in recent decades, cannibalism has been declining among the Fore because of changing social mores and laws. If that continues, kuru may be wiped out entirely.

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@Jeff_Goldblum
Rather than income, I'm more interested in taxation based on net worth. That's where the greatest inequality (and revenue) is. Though I don't know if taxation based on net worth is viable.
A land tax is an example of an asset tax.

This model (of taxing assets) seems perfectly viable.
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@Intelligence_06
Doesn’t change the fact it is poisonous and unhealthy. 
citation please
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Define a universe in your own words
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@Reece101
Well you could say he’s wanting to find a greater reality / truth.
good point
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@Reece101
why bother with phaneronism in the first place when it comes to solipsism?
because the phaneron is everything that you KNOW and everything you will ever KNOW

words and philosophical concepts can only exist in the stratum of CONSCIOUS THOUGHT
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Define a universe in your own words
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@Reece101
Does the subconscious equally exist?
it exists as a logical necessity
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@Reece101
Alright, how does phaneronism address the subconscious? Or does it skip it altogether?
the "subconscious" is the apophatic phaneron (NOUMENON)
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Define a universe in your own words
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@Reece101
He finds himself in a box with pre-existent notions, ideas, concepts, etc. Would you consider that a flaw?
No.

But the desire to "escape" the phaneron is somewhat misguided
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Define a universe in your own words
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@Reece101
Does the subconscious exist? 
when you move your arm

can you tell me how many individual muscles you activated ?

can you tell me what percentage of your available energy you utilized ?

most of our activity and even most of our thought processing is NOT "conscious thought"

some call it "intuition"

some call it "common sense"
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@Reece101
What’s this link without context? A way to make cheap shots at me? If only I had the same lack of self-awareness. 
it's a 53 minute short film that explains the phaneron
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Define a universe in your own words
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@Reece101
A phaneron is the existence as it is filtered by the perceptive senses and/or by the reasoning of an entity. A phaneron is merely a perception of what exists. No one knows what exists outside of their own perception. To you, what you see and believe to be true, is true; at least to you.

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Define a universe in your own words
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@Reece101
What is the “self”? Is it just your mind, or is it everything else as well.
PHANERON
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@zedvictor4
there is no clear logical pathway out of SOLIPSISM
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yeah i'm gonna have to block you. You are honestly delusional. I challenged your ESFJ conclusion.
you've proven my point
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@Bones
You are taking the anomaly and applying it to the set. If your standard, being looks, is what determines gender, then 
"looks" determines perception of gender/sex to OTHERS

if someone tells me they are a "woman" then i will call them a "woman"

self-ownership and self-identification is paramount

i will not demand to see their birth-certificate and medical records and naked pictures of them
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@RationalMadman
Self-described CONSERVATIVES are the ones who are more likely to "MISGENDER" someone.
Are you honestly suggesting that LIBERALS are the ones who are more likely to call the cops on someone in a public bathroom for "wearing the wrong clothes" ?
I never remotely suggested it at all, I think you are becoming lost in your bad faith arguments to the point that you're quoting yourself in order to misconstrue what I said.
You suggested exactly that when you challenged my statements regarding "CONSERVATIVES are the ones who are more likely".
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@RationalMadman
Is your point just that you are limited or something? You just said S has the opposite to what you said is 'classic S' ...
Yes, 

and this seems typical of our miscommunications.

Even the best perceptions have limits.

Failure to recognize (your own) perceptual limits results in OVERCONFIDENCE.

These limits are commonly referred to as "epistemological limits".
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@RationalMadman
You haven't replied to over 90% of what I wrote to you in the past few posts,
I skipped over the ad hominem attacks.
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@RationalMadman
Self-described CONSERVATIVES are the ones who are more likely to "MISGENDER" someone.
Are you honestly suggesting that LIBERALS are the ones who are more likely to call the cops on someone in a public bathroom for "wearing the wrong clothes" ?
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@RationalMadman
Let's say I am indeed claiming that these cisgendered women are entitled to be mistaken for men.
Entitled to be harassed and have the cops called on them for NOT committing any crime at all ?

Please explain.

How can you say I am wrong if you do not refer to the fact that they are female or what precise way did you determine that they have always gone by female because a birth-certificate mentions sex, not gender, even though it uses the term 'gender' it is clearly based on the genitalia alone.
I read the report.

They call themselves "female" and a judge agreed with them.
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@RationalMadman
I am curious if you are pushing for they/them pronouns or transition to she/her and he/him pronouns.
I couldn't give less of a shit what pronouns anyone chooses.

It's exactly like people who choose to "go by" their middle name instead of their first name.

There's no way for you to know until they tell you.

A pronoun is a placeholder for someone's name.

People get to choose what they "go by".
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@RationalMadman
So all people who call themselves conservatives are ESFJ and have weak perception of reality? Literally all?
I never said "all".

And an "S" type actually has a very strong perception of reality.

The perception is not "the problem".

The OVERCONFIDENCE is "the problem".

It is important to maintain a constant awareness of and vigilant respect of our epistemological limits.
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@RationalMadman
I'm asking where you draw the idea that she was mistaken as a woman without harming the trans agenda.
I honestly have no idea what you think the "trans agenda" is.

AND,

I also honestly have no idea how you think anything in this conversation "harms" the "trans agenda".

What "harm" is this causing, specifically ?
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@RationalMadman
the problem with that is it doesn't defend trans people.
Please be slightly more specific.
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@RationalMadman
Why didn't you reply to the rest of what I wrote, are you okay with your reading comprehension?
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what you're trying to argue here.

Are you suggesting that these women, who were born women (according to their birth-certificate and drivers license), and have always identified as women, that these women were NOT mistaken for men and harassed for being in a women's public bathroom ?

Do you see the problem here?

Self-described CONSERVATIVES are the ones who are more likely to "MISGENDER" someone.

Self-described CONSERVATIVES don't care about "real-reality" like they keep insisting.

Self-described CONSERVATIVES are consistently OVERCONFIDENT in their personal opinions regarding their perceptions of the world around them.

Classic "S" (ESFJ)
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@RationalMadman
they can spot a man from a woman fairly easily IRL?
Sample.

Bias.
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@RationalMadman
how do we know for sure that the people telling her to get out were mistakenly calling her a him/he?
Read at least one of the articles.

Ask a specific question.
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@RationalMadman
Sure, it's distinct but it's also in the category of self-identifiable aspects that others can say 'no you're not' but if anything MBTI is even more difficult to justify defying the self-identification of as it is psychology and not overt biology, better luck next time though.
MBTI is detectable in the words you use.

Good luck identifying anyone's "biology" over the intarwebz.
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@RationalMadman
many older (and or taller and or overweight and or muscular) women (who are born as women and also identify as women) can be routinely mistaken for men and face repeated harassment in public restrooms
Give us your source.



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@RationalMadman
Also I am curious of something since you cowered out of replying to my quoted solid retorts to your 'self determination' BS, why is it when I self-identify as INTP you get triggered and need to force me to 'admit' to being ESTJ or whatever it is you think I am?
I'm actually quite certain I mentioned how pleased I am that you self-identify as INTP.

I merely pointed out that (from my perspective) your writing has the earmarks of ESTJ (and even this most recent comment of yours exemplifies this).

This would be like me telling someone they appear to have beliefs that are similar to Taoist teachings (even if they don't choose to self-identify as a Taoist).

MBTI is fundamentally distinct from other "self-identification" labels, such as "male" or "female" (which are beyond our epistemological limits, because that information is specifically hidden underneath your clothes and skin).

MBTI is fundamentally distinct from other "self-identification" labels, such as "christian" or "muslim" or "deist" or "gnostic" (which are also beyond our epistemological limits, because sincerity cannot be quantified).
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