Total posts: 14,582
-->
@TheUnderdog
I'm not going to force you to adopt a starving African kid even if it saves their life,
great example
Created:
-->
@oromagi
What coherent moral theory would deny that a man's first obligation is to his children?
the same moral theory that allows a woman to choose whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term
it's the moral theory of voluntarism (anti-coercion) and self-ownership
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Yeah but it doesn't really matter. The fact is that the left will always hate us, it's obvious
Created:
-->
@amandragon01
I know it's possible I'll get run over when I cross the road, doesn't mean I won't cross the road. That something bad may happen isn't necessarily a good reason not to do it.
A tubal pregnancy — the most common type of ectopic pregnancy — happens when a fertilized egg gets stuck on its way to the uterus, often because the fallopian tube is damaged by inflammation or is misshapen.
this is also "possible"
but it clearly doesn't mean "they deserve it and should face the consequences without medical intervention"
Created:
-->
@oromagi
I think they should also be required to either reside with their children as a parent or pay the parents who do reside with their children an additional child minders fee set at minimum wage, at least.
what is your coherent moral theory supporting this claim ?
Created:
-->
@SirAnonymous
In other words, once you remove the massive, overwhelming, near-undeniable advantage of capitalism by "adjusting" for it, capitalism doesn't look as good.
the measure of a nation is the status of its least influential members
Created:
-->
@zedvictor4
But a beginning is unimaginable.
NOUMENON is incomprehensible
Created:
-->
@Athias
Perhaps a simpler resolution is to relieve him of coerced financial responsibility.
funny thing
(IFF) $$$ = SPEECH (THEN) TAXES AND FINES = COMPELLED SPEECH
(IFF) $$$ = SPEECH (THEN) TAXES AND FINES = COMPELLED SPEECH
(IFF) $$$ = SPEECH (THEN) TAXES AND FINES = COMPELLED SPEECH
Created:
-->
@Athias
We all require an explicit protection from government intervention. And it's not a contest over proportionality or even equality. A prospective pregnant female is an individual human being who first and foremost bears a right to herself. This is maintained for all individuals. I'm not going to argue some platitude that the zygote/embryo/fetus isn't human, or even, isn't a "life." I acknowledge that zygotes/embryos/fetuses are human beings. My response is: so what? The alleged "right to life" does not grant any individual to coerce the service of another. Zygotes/embryos/fetuses require their mother's womb for development--no doubt. But that need does not supersede their mother's prerogative.
great point
this isn't (and shouldn't be) about "abortion rights"
it's about "self-ownership"
Created:
-->
@Reece101
Studies show that women with passive personalities, who tend to dress in layers, long pants and sleeves and high necklines, are actually more likely to be raped.
Created:
-->
@Athias
The culpability of the gun's wielder is by default mitigated in part due to my culpability as described before.
perfecto
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Athias
This is the primary point of my inquiry.
can you be slightly more specific ?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Athias
how do you know that the mind and body clearly interact?
well, what we call "matter" certainly leaves us with "memories"
we can presumably detect "matter" with our "minds"
this conversation is phenomenal evidence of this fact
Created:
-->
@Athias
which aren't accurate and serve the purposes of red herrings. If the focus is on the prospective pregnant female's right, then the zygote/embryo/fetus's status as a human being, tumor, or citizen would still remain subordinate to said right.
great point
it's kinda like arguing over whether or not "god" "exists" without both parties first agreeing on a definition of both "god" and "exists"
Created:
-->
@Conservallectual
The example I gave was just to prove my idea in action,
to prove that your idea works, perhaps you should give an example that is actually provably-true
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
Abortions are painful for those that endure them.
and everyone knows that full-term birth is completely painless
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
"When you have people wanting to redistribute the wealth from the few productive members and give to the mass of unproductive members like the Germans did with the Jews, Fascism starts to look appealing. The demonization of the white male is the first step. Next will be boxcars loaded with rich white men sent to re-education centers."
Created:
-->
@Conservallectual
what's an apatheist?
Apatheism ( / ˌæpəˈθiːɪzəm /; a portmanteau of apathy and theism) is the attitude of apathy towards the existence or non-existence of God (s). It is more of an attitude rather than a belief, claim, or belief system. The term was coined by Robert Nash in 2001.
Created:
-->
@Conservallectual
Then you're either an agnostic or a deist.
you forgot apatheist
Created:
-->
@zedvictor4
We also don't really fall under the agnostic umbrella either.
apatheist ?
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
This leads me to be a simulationist.
(IFF) there is any sort of god (THEN) it seems extremely unlikely it has any concern whatsoever for humans
Created:
-->
@RationalMadman
the state itself is obligated to prosecute
prosecutorial discretion allows individual prosecutors to hand-pick cases that they personally believe are most likely to end with a conviction
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
It only guarantees that Congress (and, through the operation of the 14th Amendment, the states) can’t pass a law abridging your freedom of speech. Everything else is at the suffrage of your audiences.
great point
Created:
-->
@TheMorningsStar
i am not suggesting that you, yourself advocate for killing a mother of twelve children because one of them died from an accident
i'm simply pointing out that some very powerful people do advocate for killing a mother of twelve children because one of them died from an accident
Created:
-->
@zedvictor4
I did say the basics.
what do you mean by "basics" ?
Created:
-->
@zedvictor4
ukraine produces 30% of the world's wheat
that's what this whole thing is about
Created:
-->
@CoolApe
South America and Africa are already getting hit pretty bad with fertilizer costs.
great point
Created:
-->
@TheMorningsStar
But let's not use a comparable standard when assessing how miscarriages should be handled in a pro-life society, any loss of a child should be the death penalty!
Created:
-->
@oromagi
the overall assessment of the planet as overpopulated and unsustainable seems hard to deny.
i agree
Created:
-->
@Lemming
Hospitals at any rate,Regarding possible child abuse,I'd say have a duty to ask probing questions, or flag investigators.
should priests and psychologists have a similar obligation ?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
The individual mugged,Or individual born deformed,'Might disagree.
perhaps, but, my lack of motivation (and or zeal) to protect strangers from potential harm does not magically make me morally culpable for that potential harm
in-fact
police officers are NOT legally obligated to respond to calls for assistance and or investigate reported crimes
Created:
-->
@TheMorningsStar
that neglect laws never limit otherwise perfectly legal activities
do you perhaps have some working theory and or some general moral principle that guides your decision making in such cases ?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
If you 'thought 'maybe you saw someone being mugged, should you call the police?
it's more like, "if you thought that maybe someone might get mugged by someone at some unspecified point, should you call the police ?"
and if you're asking me, it would seem to be none of my business (and a complete waste of police investigative resources)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
But it would seem to me a mistake, to put a completely physical man in a woman's prison, or a completely physical woman in a man's prison.
perhaps prisons should be segregated by weight-class ?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
Does the law say anything about pregnant women engaging in "activities that are known to be potentially harmful to the development of the unborn"?
not currently
but (IFF) the unborn are determined to have a "right to life" (THEN) there must be some legal mechanism to enforce the protection of the unborn
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
Think that it's healthier, less dangerous to society, for people to keep in society the position of sex they were born.
ok
but how would you translate this opinion from a legal perspective ?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
Perhaps something similar in the way individuals are deemed flight risks, and prevented from leaving prison,Deemed suicide risks, and prevented from leaving a short term inpatient psych ward,Deemed of unsound mind, and prevented from leaving a hospital.
so, if i happen to hear a woman mention that she thinks she might be pregnant and she plans on continuing to engage in otherwise perfectly legal activities that are known to be potentially harmful to the development of the unborn (including restricted diet and or exercise), i should call the police ?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
I thought you might mean inevitable collapses as happen to populations naturally in course of history or environment,
our current food supply is boosted significantly by petroleum based fertilizers
petroleum based fertilizers are unsustainable
the MIT study that predicts societal collapse by 2040 is not a "conspiracy theory"
Created:
-->
@oromagi
We are fools not to demand substantially increased protections
well stated
Created:
-->
@Lemming
A place similar to a hospital, or a prison, or an asylum, I suppose.
and what do you think would be an ideal selection process ?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lemming
I don't know what you mean?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
But she 'would end up somewhere where she was under watch.
like where ?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
Parents who burn their children with their cigarettes, or break their babies legs for crying, ought not have custody.
non-infant orphans are extremely unlikely to be adopted
the rates of abuse and neglect in the foster-care system are astronomical
and siblings are purposefully and intentionally separated from each other
Created:
-->
@Lemming
@#113On a case by case basis.
give me some kind of "best case" example
that (hopefully) doesn't involve throwing the woman in a jail cell
Created:
-->
@Lemming
But it's 'not the same as executing them.
it's more like if you deported someone who requires access to a dialysis machine
to a place where that access was extremely unlikely and or next to impossible
Created:
-->
@Lemming
Do we also have right, as Washington did, to treat our slaves as we like?
people neglect and abuse their own children and children under their care all the time
how do you propose we "fix" this (without making the "fix" worse than the current situation) ?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
We 'should force women not to drink or smoke while pregnant, in my opinion.
how do you propose we do this ?
Created:
-->
@Lemming
America does not make it a policy, to kill illegal immigrants.
but it does deport them into war-zones
Created:
-->
@Lemming
I don't actually remember 'why he called it a shaky foundation, I'm just assuming.
it's shaky because there is no explicit "right to privacy" in the constitution
Created: