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@Best.Korea
So at least 6 confirmable roles so far.This is good, I guess, but all those roles need to be confirmed by dp3.We can afford 2 mislynches, so if scum is among the non-confirmable roles, it basically means only 3 players are left with non-confirmable role.I know two scum players can claim that they have confirmed each other, which is what we must look out for.Now we just need to hear from Earth about his character.
Remember that role confirmation doesn't necessarily mean affiliation confirmation - in some cases (with Lunatic's role) it probably does, but we can't always be sure of that.
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@Savant
I only survive another day if I am killed at night. So if you lynch me it "confirms" me, sure, but I will also be dead.
Just to double-check: your role doesn't work if you're lynched?
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@Best.Korea
I am Impa. My role is confirmable. Also, I probably will survive if I use it, so I don't see any downside in confirming myself N1 and helping town (I know this looks bad but Moozer phrased the explanation of my role really badly).
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@Barney
Due to the theme split from LotR, I assume it’s the same classic Good v. Evil. Still, we should be open to the possibility that there are any other number of theme splits, such as in LotR, it could be humans driving out the mythical races, or girls against boys, or anything else wherein one trait unites and isolates two characters from the pack.
Honestly, I don't remember the last time that a game was actually solved by a themesplit, and I generally have a pretty good memory for DART games. I think theme analysis is useful both as a basis for locking in softclaims (especially if it's unlikely to give scum too much knowledge of roles), as well as a starting point to analyze interactions and such.
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Yeah, my position is that we should get as much thematic info as possible (since as a narrow theme where justifications are fairly loose, the risk of outing info to scum is reduced), and use it to inform decisions in conjunction with behavior. If the themesplit becomes obvious, great. If it's non-obvious, then we lose little.
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@Savant
I don't really see the contradiction there. It's possible to simultaneously acknowledge that thematic analysis is not the be-all-end-all while also saying there's no reason not to do it.
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I would caution against putting too much stock in thematic analysis btw. After Moozer posted his setup last game, I gave him some advice (as a fellow mod) that a good setup will either give scum fakeclaims or deny town of an obvious themesplit. While it's possible that all six main characters are in the game, I wouldn't be surprised if there's something deeper behind it.
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DP1 always is a struggle for me. Like as scum I can just post off-the-wall reads by abusing my informed minority powers, but as town it feels like we're poking each other around without enough pressure to really generate info.
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We need to hear from Austin and Lunatic. I don't really want to play too deep into thematic analysis because it seems cheap, but whatever.
Not really sure exactly what you mean by this, I said that I'm not one of the six and my role is confirmable.
The part about not playing too deep into thematic analysis makes me a little bit uncomfortable. What benefit does town get from not going for it? Moozer's a newbie mod, theme is going to be relatively obvious, and it's an additional way to gain info.
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I'm fine with that. I think we have a solid start with theme, and even if it doesn't pan out, I don't see the harm of locking in claims this early, especially as Moozer hasn't made his justifications make a lot of sense.
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I think the thematic analysis of the six being town is definitely plausible, but I would caution against relying on that alone - it should be an auxilary factor in addition to behavior, not a justification in and of itself.
I'm going to ask Moozer if he gave fakeclaims for the previous LoTR mafia, that could inform character analysis as well.
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I am not one of the six, but my role is confirmable.
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Savant's suggestion of having the doc heal the granny target is pretty bad but it seems more indicative of newbiness (overreliance on power roles to confirm someone) rather than an attempt for towncred imo. I have a good townlean on Korea.
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Generally DP1 is pretty boring in the beginning, which is why I'm not really that active. I want to let the game play out a bit before giving my reads.
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@Best.Korea
I also buy that Austin is town because he said his role is confirmable.
I'll probably not use it unless I really need to, but when I do use it, it'll be obvious. Not gonna elaborate further on my role any more for now.
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@Savant
I'd disagree there - Granny is historically far more damaging to town than scum when left unclaimed. Why do you think it's not a good claim?
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@Casey_Risk
Good call, that is 100% a SOP role. Just to confirm, any player visiting you will die?
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@Best.Korea
@Savant
My role is confirmable, although there's a fair chance I won't be alive after I use it.
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@Casey_Risk
Standard Operation Procedure [role]. It's basically a role which is so bad for town that it's standard operating procedure to claim it immediately or else you'll look really bad later on. An example of this would be Miller, which is a pro-town role which investigates as guilty to cops.
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@Best.Korea
My character is present for some of the story. I think that applies for pretty much every character except Link tho, right?
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Also just to softclaim a bit, my role is not exactly SOP but it's definitely negative utility. If chaos occurs later on, you know who to blame.
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@Best.Korea
I suggest we all say if our characters are important heroes and main heroes, or are they some non-important heroes.
Not sure what's the criteria for this. Does having a major story arc count?
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@Savant
I see you're still paranoid over last game lol. I don't know anything about the theme, although it looks easy enough to research compared to LoTR.
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@Lunatic
You over estimate me fr lol. But glad I didn’t get too far into any real analysis
Without saying anything I shouldn't, I've been following along closely with your Mafiauniverse game and I think you really do have the capability of that level of effort. Good luck and keep it up there btw :)
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@Lunatic
I was actually going to suggest a mass character in this game, the logic being that 9 people you can almost guarantee most if not all of the fellowship characters were probably used and we could just pick off the most minor characters. Also asa new mod I figured a typical evil/ good split and nothing too complex.
Yeah, that's the problem with a lot of themes with a narrow charlist (I think I saw a DDO game with Death Note and it was a travesty). I think giving scum strong fakeclaims in such cases should be standard practice - theme should be a tool, not a solve in and of itself.
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@ILikePie5
Three protective roles + ungated cop without a roleblocker or strongman is crazy ngl
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I mean, I think the idea was to mix up the roles and characters. Could be wrong.
Easily broken by massclaim. Each person claims their old char/role and their new char/role. Anyone who refuses to claim their new char/role or has a contradictory claim is guilty.
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@Moozer325
Don't worry too much about it, it's good you caught it early before we got too invested. I'll be here for the next game.
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Poor Luna. He's going to make a wallpost analyzing each player's entrances before realizing what happened.
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@Moozer325
Ok here's some advice because you need to solve several problems to get this working:
-Minimize the info of other roles each town member will get
-Minimize knowledge of the mafia roles from former mafia members
-Make alignments in the reroll independent of alignments in this roll
This might be an unsolvable problem actually now that I think about it :(
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@Moozer325
Uh, this is pretty bad. Each person knowing at least one other character and role is a huge advantage for us because it allows the setup to be effectively broken via massclaim.
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Rereading the beginning of the DP, I think it's enough for me to have a fair townread on BK.
In particular:
Well, I hope you will still inform us when there are for example, 5 hours left till end, like mods usually do.It would be unfair if we lose because we lost track of time. - [BEST.KOREA]
Yeah, don’t worry, I’ll do that - [MOOZER]
Maybe I'm reading too much into this (Luna-style mod psyche ftw) but the "don't worry" seems to weakly spew BK as town. Only town players benefit from accurate timekeeping.
This is partially based on my own experience in Battlebots Mafia, where some of my posts in thread inadvertently suggested some players were likely town (e.g. if you reread the final DP you can probably figure out who's town and who's scum solely by paying close attention to the posts).
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@Savant
I'm town reading you for that analysis (hope I don't regret it later). Your gut has been pretty spot-on in D1 of the last two games you played, so if you have a scum read later, I'll strongly consider it.
My style tends to be very intuitive in general (less wallposts, more vibes) but I will always answer any questions regarding my thought process (as an fyi for the future).
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@Savant
I know it's mostly gut, but how are you reading JoeBob and Earth based on 1-2 posts? Do they tend to post more as scum?
Joebob gets very nervous as scum and tries too hard to look town. His post gives me the impression that he feels he has nothing to worry about from not looking town. It's actually the strongest townread I have right now.
Earth, he posted about watching the movie (so he's weakly obligating himself to provide thematic assistance later) and quickly answered WF's question. More of a gut read tho.
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A hero to the goblins? The oppressed minorities, driven out of their home land by the supremacist elves?
All morality is arbitrary anyway :D
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Vibey reads based on entrance. Mostly gut but I'd be happy to explain if asked.
-BK: town
-Savant: slight town
-whiteflame: slight town
-Barney: null
-Joebob: town
-Earth: slight town
-Casey: null
-Luna: null
Worth noting that Luna is very very busy with his MU game (I've been following along and his wim is crazy).
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@whiteflame
@Best.Korea
@Savant
Hi everyone. I was really hammered by school this morning (chem test, math test, had to study for an english test during lunch), so I didn't get a chance to post.
I know a decent amount about the theme. My character is a hero.
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@Moozer325
Generally, starting with an odd number of players (7 or 9) is better because it will lead to a LYLO rather than MYLO situation - the latter favors scum disproportionately and is also not fun for town (because it forces town to NL and give mafia a free NK).
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@Savant
He played in dozens of games on this site a few years ago iirc. But he's less active now in uni.
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@Moozer325
You definitely have a knack for this game. Hope to see you play more in the future
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
Ah ok, somehow missed that :/
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@Lunatic
Apologies for pissing you off. Glad it worked out in the end.
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@whiteflame
Yeah, obviously I wasn't putting in a whole ton of effort by the end since I wasn't actually playing, but you had a fair chance of convincing me. The similarities between Luna's behavior here and in Chess Mafia were just too glaring.
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@ILikePie5
Wait how did NP2 actions get resolved?
JoeBob - Track MoozerVader - Victim JoeBobWhiteflame - RB JoeBob & NK Vader
Joebob should've gotten a result because kills resolve last: i.e:
-whiteflame's roleblock gets redirected to Vader
-Joebob gets a result
-Vader dies
Right?
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Interesting times. In retrospect, never would've gone with my goofy Super Saint gambit if I realized that scum could also use the questions to verify the existence of a role.
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@Savant
Typo, meant Lunatic. Tbh I've never seen Luna so angry before as town (but I don't have much of a reference point anyway for his town games)
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