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@JoeBob
Yeah, 100%. I felt he could have convinced you without it
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LMAOOOO I can't believe I was actually like 80% sure it was whiteflame by the end
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Wait was whiteflame actually scum lol? I thought it was Luna by the end
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@whiteflame
Feel free to hammer. Remember to waive your action tonight.
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Yeah, I think we just lynch Moozer, and then if he flips inno, then whiteflame next. Hopefully Joebob will be alive the next DP with results (since scum already failed to kill him once, it seems they don't have a strongman ability), but no big deal if not.
Sorry Moozer if you're innocent, but this is just the easiest way for town to win. Joebob is 100% clear, I'm clear, Luna's almost certainly clear.
VTL Moozer
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Just a few thoughts on the optimal plan for tonight, assuming we yeet Moozer:
Lunatic protects Joebob
Joebob tracks whiteflame
whiteflame waives (this is the part which took a while to figure out, but I think it's optimal)
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@JoeBob
Waiting for Moozer :/
Although tbh I'm impatient and I think we have this game solved so I'm willing to vote him tonight if other people will.
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@Lunatic
I actually think otherwise, regarding Savant having a veteran on his team. Non-self-protecting Doctor is a very amateurish claim because first, the modifier doesn't exist, and second, Pie almost never uses commonplace roles in his setup. He was also flailing a lot DP1.
The only thing that makes me hesitate is Moozer's role claim. It's very good, maybe a little bit too good. It's a textbook Pie role. I'm just skeptical that Moozer could come up with that himself, but maybe I'm underestimating him a bit.
I don't really give any credence to Pie not putting two newbs on the scum team, I'm pretty sure Pie randomizes roles and affiliations iirc.
Anyway, I guess we're still waiting for Moozer to check in. I'm fine with a lynch if we get to 24 hours left in the DP.
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I guess we're just waiting for Moozer and Luna to check in. Objectively, I think Moozer is a bit scummier than WF for behavioral reasons (lack of consistency in DP2), but I'll wait to hear other's reads on this.
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@Moozer325
Fullclaim your visits on NP1 and NP2 please.
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I think we have this game solved, honestly. I'm clear by my role. Joebob's clear by his role. Luna's clear by hammering a claimed Super Saint. I guess he could've theoretically rolecopped me, but the genuine emotion you could feel bleeding into his posts during DP2 feels like wayyyy too much effort if he knew that he could just hammer me and get it over with.
The question now is what order we lynch whiteflame and Moozer in. Open to suggestions there.
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@JoeBob
Action Failed can mean a variety of things. Generally, it occurs for four main reasons:
-Roleblocker
-Rolestopper
-Commuter
-Ascetic
I am unaware of any other non-exotic role (although Pie is certainly the type to put one in there) that could cause that.
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Alright, so two things to solve. How and why did Vader die, and what happened to Joebob's result?
-So the Victim ability can't redirect kills.
-So Vader must've been directly targeted, unless Luna's role functions as some sort of weird indirect bodyguard
-The pool of "clears" was Luna, Vader, Joebob, and Austin (myself)
-It makes sense they wouldn't kill Austin, since the role is already spent, as well as Joebob, since he was being protected
-Presumably they have no ability to bypass protection.
-Why not kill Luna then?
-That's what I don't get. Oh well...
and to Joebob's result:
-Joebob is confirmed town (I am not hearing otherwise)
-He was either roleblocked, or Moozer is an Ascetic or commuted.
-The former seems more likely, in view of Luna claiming he got roleblocked NP1.
-Why not roleblock Luna and then kill Joebob though?????
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Ok I'm trying to reconstruct night actions.
Joebob: Tracked Moozer (no result)
Vader: Targeted Joebob?
Lunatic: Targeted Joebob
Moozer: Unknown, waiting for claim (I fricking swear if he claims he commuted I'm lynching him on the spot)
Whiteflame: Unknown, waiting for claim
Austin: none
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@Lunatic
If you believe that fullclaiming your role at this point will help town, please do so.
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@Lunatic
??? Not exactly sure what you mean, you might be misinterpreting Vader's role
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Wait I'm really confused. Give me a sec to figure out how this might have happened.
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-Lunatic protects Joebob
-Vader victims Joebob
-Joebob tracks Moozer
-whiteflame VIPs Moozer
-Moozer selects whiteflame
I think this is optimal.
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@JoeBob
Think that's hammer. Last thought before the day ends: Joebob, use your tracker, not your Cop. There are some roles that can affect cop results (Lawyer, Framer, Tailor), but I've never heard of a role that gives fake results to a tracker other than Ninja - which Savant had, and he's dead.
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@Barney
If you are town, you should be putting up some sort of defense.
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I'll put a more detailed case on Barney later if anyone wants to see it. But I think he's going down anyway, if only for being the scummiest player of POE.
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VTL Barney
It's happening sooner or later, whether now, in the next DP, or LYLO. He's showed scummy behavior, has a suspicious and non-confirmable claim (which conveniently covers himself for any tracker reports), and has showed a total unwillingness to defend himself, unlike in Chess Mafia, where his stubborness baited Luna into exploding at WF.
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@Lunatic
Alright, so even if you don't think so right now, we're in a much better position now than we were at the start of the DP.
First, consider the utility of my role. Ironically, me being widely townread at the start of the DP for catching Savant was actually a detriment because it was pretty likely I would just get to MYLO without anyone trying to lynch me (my role stopped working at MYLO, btw).
As such, my choices were to:
1. Let nothing happen
2. Fullclaim my role and let people test (confirming me)
3. Try to bait someone into testing my alleged Super Saint role (confirming me and them)
I was initially going to pick a fight with Barney because he has a noted history of OMGUSing people, but I decided to try and get you to hammer me for that post of yours. While the logic wasn't as bad as I exaggerated, I still felt it was poor reasoning. Following that, I never was fully convinced you were scum, but I figured that at the very least you were at the scummier side of POE.
So this whole affair has brought us two benefits.
First, it's town-confirmed you. CCing Savant got you some towncred, but I wouldn't have put it past you. The pool of suspects is brought down from 4 to 3 (Barney, Moozer, whiteflame), which means that town can actually win just by lynching them in order every day (assuming no shenanigans with Vader, hence why I'm still tryharding a bit).
Second, and more importantly, it's allowed us to gauge the POE members' alignments through their reactions.
-Barney is immediately sus because I somehow went to his top scumread with little explanation, and suggested voting myself and you over two days (convenient...)
-Moozer is somewhat sus because he jumped on my wagon after previously saying that he was never going to vote me out today (he could just be a sheep, so I'm giving him a bit of slack here)
-whiteflame is looking good through the fact that he expressed hesitance about the whole thing and didn't vote me. He had a golden opportunity to mislynch two town members - if he was scum, no way he would rely on Barney and Moozer to be silly enough to actually do it for him.
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@Lunatic
I'll explain more tomorrow. You'll understand. Pretty tired rn
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I'm guessing the last scum have a JOAT role, that's what Pie usually has, and GF/Ninja is kinda weak, especially on alternating nights. A Strongman on Joebob is likely. Not much we can do about that though. Anyway, everyone's thoughts on a Barney lynch?
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I'm also going to take a break for tonight. We'll still have around 36 hours in the morning, plenty of time to decide on a lynch, especially since the pool of suspects is so reduced.
Clear (from most clear to least clear, not including my POV as myself clear)
-Joebob (unCC'd investigative role confirmed by Savant's role)
-Lunatic (hammered a claimed Super Saint)
-Austin (Lynchproof is not a scum role - Pie isn't a bastard mod)
-Vader (copped inno, but least clear because this result could've been manipulated)
POE (from most sus to least sus)
-Barney (suggested taking two days for Luna + Austin lynches, voted me without much explanation (still waiting on that, btw))
-whiteflame (POE, about equal with Moozer)
-Moozer (POE, about equal with Moozer)
I think the play today is to lynch Barney. Then:
-Lunatic protects Joebob
-Vader victims Joebob
-Joebob investigates whiteflame (or Moozer)
-whiteflame VIPs Moozer
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@Lunatic
Only got like 2 hours of sleep because I was arguing with Austin. Smh
Sorry about that :( didn't quite mean to take it so far but I needed you to genuinely want to hammer me.
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Lol, gotta love the reactions. I'm going to defend that play, sorry for pissing you off Luna but it town confirms you and puts you out of POE.
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@Lunatic
You're fine dude. I'm x1 Lynchproof, DP continues as normal after Pie resets vote counts.
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Barney is probably the last scum tbh. That suggestion of voting me and Luna on two days, as well as quickly voting me without much explanation, is pretty scummy.
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@Lunatic
Sorry for being so aggressive there. I had to do that in order to bait you into hammering me. The DP continues after the hammer btw.
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@whiteflame
Wallpost incoming. Italicized are your words.
The way this back-and-forth between Luna and Austin has shaped up comes as a result of Luna providing his extended thoughts on Austin in post #61, where he mainly gives reasons why he still considered Austin potential scum, and Austin's frustration over Luna's decision not to full claim. I understand the reasons why Luna clarified his thoughts on Austin and why he's not outing his full claim. I don't think Luna's clarifying his role meaningfully helps town given the CC (I don't think he'd do that to his own scum partner), and I don't think it clashes with my claim.
I wanted Luna's claim because Pie tends to use nonstandard roles, or nonstandard role names for standard roles - e.g. Joebob's witness, which is literally equivalent to a cop. I see very little utility for town!Luna to hide this, but there is a clear motivation for scum!Luna to do so.
That's where this should have ended, but then Luna gets frustrated that Austin's continuing to push on him, and Austin calls for more votes on Luna before we start this now prolonged push on Austin. I don't know what reasons Austin has for sussing Luna at this point (he mentioned having reasons earlier, but hasn't posted them yet),
I initially FOSed Luna because I think his reasoning for why I could potentially be scum were crappy. I don't mind people pushing on me, it's not like I'm an Innocent Child. But when that push is combined with some of the worst logic I've seen in my time here on this site, then I become suspicious.
First of all, I already mentioned that I'm familiar with Mafiascum flavor roles, which is where I get inspiration for my setups. Non-self-targeting is literally not a modifier. Furthermore, Normal rules on Mafiascum generally prohibit doctors or the like from targeting themselves anyway. There would be no reason whatsoever for me to tell Savant to claim that.
NINJA EDIT AS I'M REVIEWING THIS POST: It actually makes complete sense for Luna to have told Savant to do this deliberately in order to frame me. Notice the careful progression of his thoughts in order to make his "realization" seem natural. Absolutely devious plan by Luna imo.
That alone wasn't enough for me to scumpile Luna - he was in my POE before and in my POE after. However, his response raised alarm bells. Luna can get aggressive as fuck when he is scum. You saw that in the last game, where Luna went all lunatic on you because you weren't voting Barney like he wanted.
Scum have both the power and detriment of having too much information. Scum!Luna knows that I'm town. He needs to invent reasons why I'm scum. He struggles to do this, and needs to resort to faking outrage.
And that intimidation shit isn’t going to work on me. As far as your requests for more information go, you can kindly go fuck yourself. If you wanna escalate this into something more. I’ll gladly take you to school and we can clutter this day phase with 1-200 pages of wifom arguments. I’ve done the same shit with pie. - LUNATIC
Luna's my strongest townread at the moment based on the CC. I can see some possibility of him CCing him for the towncred, but especially given that scum could ask about two specific roles, I don't buy that he would work this hard to cover it up afterward.
With all due respect, I think you know better than this. Savant was going down no matter what. This is an objective fact and I'd love to see anyone (Luna included) take me up on this. Tell me, if Luna hadn't CC'd and did his best to defend Savant, what would have happened?
With that in mind, Luna had no reason not to pile on his partner to extract maximum towncred. A hammer isn't enough - but a counterclaim certainly seems like it. Frankly, it's unbelievable that you're giving him more towncred for CCing a dying man than me for flashleading the wagon on Savant and pushing on him throughout the whole day.
So it's really just a question of whether I think Austin is town. Given that Luna's been hinting at an unknown issue with his role for a while, I think it's anti-town to insist on the claim, even though I understood the initial impetus.
Everyone else is full-claiming. Luna hasn't. Pretending that there's some problem with his claim is the perfect way to stall in order for time to create a better claim.
Pushing then to have himself lynched to test the resolve of the people on his wagon seems more likely to end in two dead town than anything else. I see it as more likely that Austin is just venting his frustrations poorly, but I could see how the role could have been designed to dissuade a lynch and this behavior is at least detrimental to town.
One town dead, one scum dead. Endgame and town win. I don't see the problem.
Listen to me here. Luna planned this out perfectly. He planned out a claim with Savant beforehand in order to frame me with that crappy modifier logic. But since he isn't a Mafiascum style mod, he doesn't take care to choose the correct modifiers (or, in this case, none at all would be the technical solution)
I hate to use out-of-game influence, but look at Luna's work schedule.Savant's period of flailing was exactly while Luna was asleep. When he comes back, he realizes, "Oh shit, I'm losing a partner on D1." He CCs Savant because he knows it's unlikely there's another protective role, and look how much towncred it gains him for literally zero work.
Then, going into D2, he puts himself in a very townread position, and tries to expand POE to include myself (and Joebob, for some bizarre reason). His mistake was being too obvious with it. At this point, we need to either lynch him or let him lynch me. Period.
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@Vader
Luna is absolutely sneaky enough to CC a partner who's already going down anyway. I give him little towncred for that.
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@Vader
I mean, if that was the case, I wouldn't be trying to get Luna to hammer me, would I?
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Also unvote to prevent someone from accidentally derphammering and getting themselves killed. I'm at L - 2 right now and need Luna to be the hammer.
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Since I'm a Super Saint, that will reflexively kill him and we'll both be off the table.
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