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@TWS1405_2
You’re dodging the question.
I’ll save you the trouble: your dream dictionary which wholly agrees with all your opinions, does not exist.
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@Bones
would you agree that the plethora of neo-pronouns, identified through the 57 or however many genders their are now, are fundamentally unproductive, although you still use them purely from a place of virtue?
On balance yes.
Which is not the same as disbelieving in them; there are however diminishing returns after the first few.
As I said earlier, I think male female and other is enough for most purposes . It would be an inconvenience for the vast majority of people if every work application we saw the list of 57 options, of which multiple may be selected.
An example of positive utility is someone listing themselves as trans on dating apps. It’s perfectly fine that many people are open minded heterosexuals. However, every conservative guy here (excepting for one I had to ban), is almost certainly mono-heterosexual; who would not want to date someone we might consider to have once been a man. Similarly, I at least would not wish to date what I would consider to be a woman, if she identifies as a man.
…
I expect someone may jump in and call me transphobic. I’d call myself trans-disinterested.
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Just finished a debate on if there are exactly two genders or not:
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@zedvictor4
a slave to your inner procreational urges ever since your first wet dream.Doesn't matter who does what to who during the process of satisfaction.
That reminds me, have you heard of The Right Stuff?
It's a conservative dating app exclusively for male-sexed people who wish to birth kids together and do not believe in the existence of multiple genders (not to be confused with insistence on there being just two, but outright disbelieve in genders at all).
Better yet, they insist anyone who isn't on it "ain't conservative."
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@Bones
In much the same way, I would say their are two genders, although there can be very small deviations.
I get what you mean about general easy references. Yes, there exist two main genders. For most purposes that's plenty. I don't have any issue with gender on questionnaires just having "other" for all outliers (while I do believe that should be there, if nothing else than just to avoid headaches).
As a debater, I'm going to bring up outliers to disprove absolute statements. Argue dogs are incapable of biting because it's rare, and I'll dig out news stories to disprove that statement. Dogs do bite, even if it's damned rare. We of course fear the breeds which can do greater harm when they bite, even while they are statistically even more unlikely to bite (fear of sharks is quite similar; they bite 72 people out of hundreds of millions of swimmers per year, and yet we're terrified of them because if they bite it's often fatal).
I don't think you're arguing genders other than male and female don't exist, but rather just making a point that we don't need to fuss about it so much. Whereas Lxam seems to believe that because outliers are rare, outliers do not exist.
I frankly do not know what the purpose of gender as a means of identifying pronouns serves in any context,
Usually it's a way to show respect. Much like me calling you Bones, because you indicated that's what you want to be called.
At my last job I had a co-worker who preferred to be referred to by they/them pronouns. While I do not see a need to list my preferred pronouns due to them being obvious, theirs were not obvious and they got upset when they were referred to as he/him; therefore I had them add a pronoun line to their email signature to efficiently solve the problem. To insist on referring to them as he/him, would have added needless friction in the workplace, thus making it unprofessional (I troll people online; I do not troll my co-workers).
All that said; I will admit that I disagree with complaints over assuming someone's gender. If 99% of the time it's correct, it should be on the individual who differs to alert anyone. Granted, if someone is androgenous, I will likely inquire should the need arise.
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According to Oxford (your own cherry picked source), XY can be male or female based on how they identify.No, it says:"state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences"Meaning:It is the expression of the state of being male or female, based on your biological sex.You can express yourself however you would like, but you can't change your gender. You can be a feminine boy, and a masculine girl, but you can't switch it entirely.
I was mistaken, it's Cambridge which defines a woman as "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"
I honestly mistook you for the type of person who watches Fox News cry about their hurt feelings (https://www.foxnews.com/media/oxford-dictionary-adds-multisexual-sistergirl-16-words-gender-identity).
Oxford offers the following definitions which make your appeal to authority self-defeating...
- gender: The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones
each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, neuter, common) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections which they have and which they require in words syntactically associated with them; similarly applied to adjectives (and in some languages) verbs, to denote the appropriate form for accompanying a noun of such a class. Also: the fact, condition, or property of belonging to such a class; the classification of language in this way.any of several other analogous categories into which nouns may be divided (regardless of any connection with sex). - gender-bending: that defies or challenges traditional notions of gender, esp. in terms of dress or behaviour
- gender-bent: characterized by or relating to a change of gender; dressing and behaving in a manner characteristic of the opposite sex
- gender-fluid: not clearly or wholly male or female; androgynous
- cisgendered: Designating a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds to his or her sex at birth; of or relating to such a person; not transgendered.
- transgender: Designating a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond to that person's sex at birth, or which does not otherwise conform to conventional notions of sex and gender.
- pangender: Designating a non-binary person whose gender identity encompasses multiple genders, which may be experienced simultaneously or in a fluid, fluctuating manner; of or relating to a gender identity of this type.
- Man: As a designation applied equally to particular individuals of either sex.
Admittedly, I'd prefer if that last one were not the case.
With the inclusion of the word gender-bent, Oxford affirms that gender can switch regardless of sex (it's right there on the page for gender).
Again, the English language is a fluid thing (pun intended).
...
Getting deeper, there's measurable biological differences in their brains, regardless of what's in their pants: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/
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@Bones
I never understood the point of asking about the XXXY chromosomic pattern in regards to the gender debate
My precise knowledge of the sex of that chromosome was lackluster. Gender of course for anyone literate is not assured to be determined by that.
I would wager that you believe XX can be men and XY can be women.
Generally speaking, XX can be a trans-man, and XY can be a trans-woman. Ignoring rare ones with odd development cycles of course (XY presenting externally as a woman, and assigned female at birth for example... I don't know how I would classify that).
I don't believe trans is the same as cis, and generally speaking I would rather not have to spell out cis when it's the most common arrangement.
Why not talk about these far more common scenarios which society currently deals with, as opposed to how we ought to classify the one anomaly.
I was attempting to engage with someone in their arguments own terms. Since God (if you believe in that, otherwise just nature) made true intersexed people which if cis-gendered are neither male or female, it wholly disproves the absurdity of the absolutism.
Yes, pointing out rare exceptions does imply the commonality of a standard; but when trying to say therefore deviation outright does not exist because it only rarely occurs, it becomes self defeating. The same logic means anyone who ever claimed a dog bit them is lying, since it's very rare for dogs to bite, therefore it's impossible for dogs to bite (Lxam could find no defense for his logic leading to this conclusion).
Going to his arm example, if he claimed all people have two arms, it would easily be disproven due to amputees and such. Were it just most, fine, the vast majority of people have two arms, but the exception that proves the rule does not deny the existence of the exception.
A doctor will not tell a woman "well perhaps you are non binary" because biologically, no such thing exists.
You're speaking of sex, not gender. And again, even sex isn't perfectly binary (even if other formations are rare).
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@YouFound_Lxam
According to Oxford (your own cherry picked source), XY can be male or female based on how they identify.
Your own fallacious appeal to authority proves you’re wrong.
Your problem is one of not being familiar enough with the English language. The language didn’t become fixed in the 1700’s, rather it evolves based on usage.
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@Vader
There’s been plenty of time for campaigning. How about we open up the voting Thursday night or Friday morning?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Soooo one can be tricked into homosexual sex.
Yes, if you’re attracted to slender humans with breasts without first doing a DNA test, you’re gay! (Err… at least bi)
Funny thing, one of my best friends is technically a trans woman with XY chromosomes. She was assigned male at birth, but identifies as a woman. Anyone looking at her would think she’s a woman. She’s also really hot, so without their knowledge she turns straight men gay, and lesbians straight.
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@YouFound_Lxam
And XXXY?
Either way, you’re cherry picking desperately because you dislike the English language. The same source you use for gender, defines women as anyone who identifies as a woman regardless of the sex they were assigned at birth.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Yes, it its. And intersex people do not count, because even with the intersex community, there are biological factors and chromosomal factors that can determine if the intersex person is male or female.
Male = XY, Female = XX, and yet there's also XXY, XYY, XXYY, etc.
So tell me, is XXYY a man or a woman?
Plus, the intersex community, only makes up .018% of the population, so for some people to base the idea, that there are more than two sexes, on intersex people is stupid.
Rare doesn't mean non-existent. You might as well say it's absolutely impossible for dogs to bite, since it only rarely happens.
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@YouFound_Lxam
expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones
And that's not even getting into the fact that peoples sex isn't always male or female.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Do you mean the following?
The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones; the collective attributes or traits associated with a particular sex, or determined as a result of one's sex. Also: a (male or female) group characterized in this way.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I say that gender is not socially constructed
And which English dictionary informs your opinion?
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If Native Americans exist, there are at least 4 genders:
“Traditionally, Native American two-spirit people were male, female, and sometimes intersexed individuals who combined activities of both men and women with traits unique to their status as two-spirit people. In most tribes, they were considered neither men nor women; they occupied a distinct, alternative gender status. In other cases, two-spirit females were referred to with a distinct term and, therefore, constituted a fourth gender” [11].
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Hall of Fame IV
Pursuant to the fourth Hall of Fame election process, the following are inducted into the DebateArt.com Hall of Fame:
-- Users --
Intelligence_06
As the first non-native English language debater to be honored with a place in DART's Hall of Fame, as well as the first non-American, and the youngest debater to be so honored, Intelligence_06 contributes some serious diversity of perspective to DART as well as a tremendous talent for persuasive argument.Not everybody knows that Intelligence_06 joined in April 2020 as User_06 and cranked out 50 debates in 3 months, rapidly improving his game against some of the best debaters on the site before switching his username to Intelligence. True to his new handle, Intel upped his game until achieving #2 in the rankings with the third highest number of debate wins on this site and among the highest like:posts ratios in the forums. Overcoming a 3 month long string of losses earlier this year, Intel hit his stride with a four-month long string of wins to surpass the unbeaten Barney and become only the second debater to break 1800. Intel is most proud of the potent and compelling argument he presented in Atheists Have a Burden of Proof.Truly, Intel has earned a reputation as one of DART's most impressive contenders, and all debaters tremble at the prospect of Intel's continued improvement.-oromagi
3RU7AL
Presidential candidate with over 13k forum posts, he ran a very good campaign overall. Not to mention he is a very likeable person and contributes a lot to the site.-SupaDudz (placeholder)
Greyparrot
Though the Hall of Fame is often used to recognize topdebaters, there are some people whose contributions extend outside of thedebating realm. As the top contributor in forum posts to the website, GreyParrothas made himself an integral part of the website, providing everyone with theirdaily dose of YouTube videos and engaging with a broad set of users on a widevariety of topics. With his short, pithy responses, GP keeps threadsinteresting with his blunt and often humorous insights. He is the king of thepolitical forum; long may he reign. He has also become one of the most regularparticipants in forum Mafia games, a wildcard that should never be underestimated. Even when he's literally blowing up games or posting absurd forum topics, you can't help but respect the breadth of GP's contributions to this site.-whiteflame
Not to toot my own horn here, but a debate is a two person effort and Whiteflames performed exceptionally well. The matchup itself of this debate elicited much interest from the community, as evidenced through the 275 comments.Furthermore, I may have to verify this, but I believe that this is the debate with the most votes (serious debate, being any with a no forfeit and an r1 of more than 100 characters), with votes from the likes of Barney and MisterChris.-Bones (placeholder)
Resolved: On balance, the Christian doctrine of Penal Substitutionary Atonement is ethically tenable.
This debate made it here for a reason, one MisterChris(MC) may despise but it was a significant moment regardless of debate; RationalMadman(RM) tied with MC and since RM had lower Rating it led to MC being knocked out of the top 5.The debate itself is intriguing and perhaps it is accurate to say RM would have lost if not for newcomers voting. It was a debate whereby both debaters had very little rebuttal and tried to debate around each other and taught RM in particular the value of replying and rebuking directly to his opponent, if he wanted to secure victories more clearly. As for MC, it was his only debate really in the past year and only one since, for RM it was a turning point inspiring a more aggressive debate style instead of defensive and elusive.-RationalMadman
The majority of animal agriculture in the United States is slavery [for @Oromagi]
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-- Threads --
DDO is Shutting Down
This community started as a refugees from debate.org (DDO), a site which will always cause mixed emotions to say the least. While most of us declared it dead years ago, the site still existed. This came to an end on June 5th, 2022. Just over a week before that, Lemming alerted us all that the owners had done a single act of goodwill for the userbase, which was to allow members to download their data.-Barney
What precisely has Airmax done during his Presidency here towards his campaign promises?
This was one of the earlier threads to call out Airmax's inactivity after becoming president.It didn't get many replies, but it expressed a growing doubt at the time that would be later confirmed.-Mharman (placeholder)
I do not believe that Shila is a bot. I agree with the muting for toxicity only.
This was a thread highlighting yet another example of Airmax failing his presidency. RM pushed for the mods to notice that Shila was unlikely to be a bot and within 3 days she was unbanned. Quite the 'precedent' RM set...-RationalMadman
Conclusion
This concludes the induction announcement. Congratulations to all those inducted!
P.S.: Sorry for the delay.
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@WokeBlackConservative
It’s not as bad as it used to be. Certainly some layers have ended (not really repeatable, without a lot of backtracking in society).
An inherent problem is people are frequently horrible, which is unlikely to change. Give horrible people power, and they’ll use it to help the like minded gain power.
Every group has their unique sets of privileges and comparative disadvantages; but yeah, they don’t tend to balance out. Which suppose it could be said to have ended when they are at least close to balancing.
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Dictionaries frequently contain several definitions for any one word. That a woman can be referred to by gender instead of sex, does not invalidate other definitions.
The lone bothersome thing for me about changing definitions along these lines, is that heterosexual needs to be spelled out to be mono-heterosexual, rather than having the modifier being the rare cases of trans inclusionary heterosexuals.
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@WeaverofFate
This seems to be the most recent signup thread. To start, pretty much post a message stating "/in"
Expect undue pressure from players trying to make you slip, so if in doubt just claim to be town allied vanilla, without any known teammates.
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I’m not usually a fan of retcons, but I hope they dismiss those… Maybe call them Star Wars Extra Legends or something.
Regardless, they’re going to have to be ignored. Force ghosts being able to attack things with the force, the Death Star could have been destroyed with a simple ramming (along with any planet honestly, so why build that huge thing), Jedis not needing spaceships since it slows them down when they want to travel faster than light…
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1min 38sec looks more like 7min 11sec, not to mention being an ad for some clothing brand or something like that... I lost patience and gave up.
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@RationalMadman
@Lemming
As thread inductees, please reach out to anyone you'd like to do a writeup for you.
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@RationalMadman
@oromagi
@MisterChris
@Bones
@Novice_II
As debate inductees, please reach out to anyone you'd like to do a writeup for you.
The cavate is that your counterparts must agree with said writeups.
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@Greyparrot
@3RU7AL
@Intelligence_06
As user inductees, please reach out to anyone you'd like to do a writeup for you. Otherwise I'll look for any justified votes to serve as a placeholders.
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@Intelligence_06
My apologies for my part in the delay. Supa had asked me to do a writeup for you, and between difficulty in not knowing you well, and just how crazy my life got I kept forgetting. So sorry about that.
Many of the writeups I've done for the HoF were because they didn't used to have writeups with them, and I considered that to be a mistake; so I filled in what I could intending it as placeholders.
Any winner can ask anyone they like to do a writeup; and likewise may veto any writeup.
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While writeups are still needed, the HoF information center page has been updated:
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@oromagi
Would you like to do a HoF writeup for him?
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@badger
Just tried it out on some of my Python class assignments, and damn!
Not that it could have done everything for me, but it would have avoided all the false starts which took so damned much of my time!
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No to both.
For the first, we'd be glad for volunteers to count the votes, but there is no benefit to the extra red tape proposed.
Likewise for second, just sounds like red tape to me.
This is much of why referendums usually go through a period of public review and feedback, before being put up for the vote.
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@badger
Thanks for sharing that.
I would hate for debaters to just use this, but certainly it's a good idea feed any resolution into it to get an opinion.
...
I kind of wish it could just be told to argue any side to something.
Another thing to note is that its knowledgebase is limited and ripe with inaccuracies.
Why do marines eat crayons?There is no evidence to suggest that marines, or members of any other military branch, eat crayons. This is likely an urban myth or a baseless rumor that has been circulated without any factual basis.
It is important to remember that it is never a good idea to spread misinformation or false rumors, as it can cause confusion and harm. It is always best to verify information before sharing it, to ensure that it is accurate and reliable.
I've known plenty of marines, and the only one who denied eating crayons is a schizophrenic.
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I once got into an argument with a priest about Young Jesus in the temple.
First there’s a different historical context regarding travel times. Putting into todays terms: she loaded up the minivan with her kids, then after buckling them in one snuck out. She backtracked and picked him up a couple hours later.
Presumably, God chose her knowing this would happen, and that Jesus needed to learn some import lessons. Such as don’t make your mother worry…
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@PREZ-HILTON
She was given plenty of chances to present evidence, and not only refused but responded with pure toxicity. While at the same time demanding moderators do something...
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@PREZ-HILTON
We're they banned for the following a post of yours a few before thatIf the claim is true, offer details so that whomever it was may be banned. Otherwise we'll be left with the conclusion you're lying as a desperate plea for attention.Is lying and being an attention whore suddenly a bannable offense?
They were banned after that, but not for just that lone incident.
And due to the severity of the lies about other users, yes. More and more frequently her go to on losing any discussion, was to accuse the other person of being a podophile whom is specifically targeting her children.
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Regarding Poly:
I should mention that they requested being banned.
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@Sir.Lancelot
Doesn’t want to keep being a Jedi, has to stay one for all eternity… #irony
At least he got to keep his actor when he died.
…
Come to think of it, as a force ghost I see some good connections to me. I’m not in the fight anymore, but I’m still around advising people.
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@Sir.Lancelot
The Sith may want to be Goths, but they’re consistently emo. They do however have the better fashion sense.
I haven’t seen that TV series yet, but that makes committing suicide by Vader even worse.
Jokes aside, I mostly like that character. I just find a few moments with him very questionable.
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@Sir.Lancelot
Which character do you think you are?
Not sure. Maybe R2D2?
I have a pretty good generic Star Wars baddie costume, but I’m not emo enough to be a close match for any dark side of the force people…
Given that I’m a veteran, there’s similarities with Obi-Wan; I certainly hope those never include suicide (seriously, letting Vader kill him made absolutely no sense). I also hope I never mug anyone (poor Vader!).
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As much as I sometimes give him shit, he's the most dedicated debater on the site; not to mention being damned skilled, and never ceasing to challenge himself and grow.
Are he and I going to butt heads again? Almost certainly. But he's got my respect.
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I have not used Java, but having to declare everything ahead of time sounds terrible!
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@Tradesecret
Did you mean to post this thread in the religion forum?
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@jaay
Sadly yes. However, it will not affect your rating as a normal tie would.
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@zedvictor4
I assume there are more casual readers than voters. Sadly, some voters are not among the readers.
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@Lemming
Computers would be much more efficient for voting than people, as they are ideally suited for repetitive tasks like that.
But no, I would not consider the current level of AI to be people. One day I suspect we'll have sentient computers which I would, but that is a long way off.
I don't believe every sperm is sacred, even if they happen to be human DNA. Similarly, I don't think a lab grown husk without a brain would be a person.
What separates us from animals is our minds. If it were just that our DNA is slightly different than other species, a lab mouse with a human organ (there's some really neat experiments with that) would be a person, and a citizen by birthright.
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For written debates, my first goal is to entertain the audience, followed closely by being informative with research.
And yes, I really hate it when an opponent proclaims that I haven't convinced them, therefore I must be wrong. I show the audience why they are wrong, and the smarter of my opponents revise their thinking.
Of course my in person tactics are vastly different.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Does the sole fact that we are human, define personhood, or rather is it something deeper?
I believe it to be something deeper.
Let's say you gathered a million ideologues in a massive vault, have them all sign power of attorney, and then perfectly freeze them so that they will be preserved for all time. Intuitively, do you have a million loyal voters for all time to tip elections, or just a bunch of meat popsicles?
Looking back at the trolly problem of the fire, even the most hardcore pro-lifer would choose to save the actual children instead of the embryos.
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