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Been a busy day for me, and it's late, so I may have missed a bit in my skimming's. That said, my scum reads on Pie and GP have strengthened; particularly for Pie claiming I was online when I was not ("He’s obviously lurking"). Anyone other than Pie see the little green online icon under my name at any point today? I was too busy to check the site today (save for a few minutes in the morning). Plus him pretending I had not done any follow up on my hunch toward GP when I had in my previous dashboard update post.
Dashboard
oromagi AFC South Houston Texans
TOWN______Division___Claim____________Role
Whiteflame NFC West
SCUM______Division___Claim____________Role
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@Greyparrot
As previously asked...
Curious, why did your answer for the hated town explanation change?Who likes the Falcons?My team is hated for choking in critical games.
VTL Greyparrot for answer
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@Mharman
Do you prefer to be tagged in posts which contain votes?
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As with previous games, I get a slight scum read towards VTLs for pressure without tagging the person to actually pressure them.
Still, my main scum read is on the changed role justification.
Dashboard
oromagi AFC South
TOWN______Division__Claim____________Role
Whiteflame NFC West
SCUM______Division__Claim____________Role
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@SirAnonymous
Two left. Your turn to claim conference and division.
NFC East
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@Greyparrot
Curious, why did your answer for the hated town explanation change?
Who likes the Falcons?
My team is hated for choking in critical games.
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@Earth
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If anyone gets bored waiting on the popcorning, I've got a debate in the voting period:
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@Danielle
I really appreciate that they put in a feature to allow users to download their data.It doesn't work.
I was able to get it to work for me. It did take a few tries.
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Oh something everyone here might enjoy:
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Dashboard
Player: Claim: Role:
Whiteflame .
Earth .
Pie .
Badger .
Greyparrot Atlanta falcons hated townie
That2
SirAnon
Barney
MisterChris
Oromagi
Speedrace
Danielle
Whiteflame .
Earth .
Pie .
Badger .
Greyparrot Atlanta falcons hated townie
That2
SirAnon
Barney
MisterChris
Oromagi
Speedrace
Danielle
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@RationalMadman
Congrats! And even if you fall, you always rise again.
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For awhile I thought it would be neat to have a corrupt moderator mafia game. It would have to be a bastard game, due to moderators editing posts and such.
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@3RU7AL
While there are shared physical and cultural traits, the way racists use it is indeed arbitrary and frequently contradictory.
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@Mharman
They also updated the code in a way which broke debates, and refused to fix the problem.
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@Mharman
Only a minimal amount of spam, with lots of debates and voters.
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While I have long considered DDO to be a rotting carcass, it was a great showcase for the value proposition of a moderation free experience.
That said, I really appreciate that they put in a feature to allow users to download their data.
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@zedvictor4
Ensuring the destruction of evil, trumps preventing a smaller amount of suffering than the amount said evil will inflict if it escapes: so kill the bastard, even if it makes you unable to save the cat (or even the children).
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@MarkWebberFan
Travel:
Sorry for the delay, the notification got buried and lost.
I've traveled a moderate amount (at least driven through most states, and been to a few other countries), but I expect to be traveling more in the years to come now that I can afford it.
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@Novice
am eager to replicate that same sucess regardless of whether or not I am debating.
Literally impossible without debating.
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@RationalMadman
What punishments were the journalists who reported on those crimes given (or threatened with) by the US government?
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@Greyparrot
I'm having to infer a bit from that...
So no punishments nor threats of punishments to journalists from the USA, which somehow means Russia is perfectly normal and good to threaten journalists because the USA didn't?
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@Greyparrot
What punishments were they given (or threatened with) by the government? ... Additionally, why would that whataboutism make it ok?
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@RationalMadman
If I was either of them, I would not want more people agreeing to mutual defense; kinda limits later conquest potential. Plus, OWG=bad.
That said, I fully stand by criticizing their anti-news laws:
I don't spend much time in the politics forum, has anyone made a good defense for that?
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@Jeff_Goldblum
NATO is evil, and tried to invade Russian sovereign land, and Russa had to exterminate those damned Jewish Nazis! Not that Russa has killed anyone ever... Oh and the author of this post needs to be sent to a Gulag for speaking a banned word...
/satire
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@Mr.Montague
Welcome to the site. I hope you enjoy your stay. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
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@Bones
I do enjoy these types of thought experiments. A paragraph from my last abortion debate:
As a hypothetical, imagine a fire in a fertility clinic with a daycare. You can save the lives of toddlers, or a thousand fertilized eggs. From a strictly human standard of morality, you should let suffer the children… From a personhood standard, you may regret the loss, but save the toddlers… I would further argue that were it a future potential person (frozen embryo), or a trapped cat, the cat is closer to being a person even while lacking human DNA, so it should be prioritized.
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@3RU7AL
That's not actually how Ad Hominems work. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_hominem#Not_ad_hom
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@3RU7AL
Poor Mr. Hitler, being called a racist instead of savior of the human race as he defines himself...
That's not actually how Ad Hominems work. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_hominem#Not_ad_hom
If either of us called each other a dumb dumb poppy head and therefore wrong during this discussion, that would be an Ad Hominem; an attack to the claim maker, instead of to the claim. However, the claim that someone is a racist as the central claim, isn't refuted by the absurdity of them saying something like: 'No they're not, they say they're a magical princess sparkle pants, so no one can say otherwise' (or however else they choose to define themselves).
If either of us are debating with Mr. Hitler on gun control policies (or almost anything else), and we start shorting "racist" instead of arguing to the topic, sure that's an ad hominem attack. However, if Mr. Hitler being racist is the topic of discussion, identifying the racist trends he committed is perfectly topical and non-fallacious.
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@3RU7AL
and this is fundamentally distinct from the question of self-identification
Obviously, I disagree with your standard that someone is only what they say they are regardless of their actions. A racist can define everyone they dislike as not human and go on a killing spree, we in turn refer to them as a racist mass murderer; not however they choose to self-identify to include them having never harmed a human being.
what exactly is the point of such a designation (in your personal opinion) ?
Nouns are useful in the construction of shared language.
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@3RU7AL
and yet he was impeached forperjury and obstruction of justice
Yes, for doing things he denied doing. The tower of babel you're trying to build, would insist he said he didn't so he cannot be called someone who committed perjury and obstruction of justice.
now you want to remove "motive" completely ?
Motive (when available) can help us understand actions. It can sometimes mitigate offenses, but it does not absolve everything when harm is involved.
Bill Clinton might have never meant to cheat on his wife, nor commit perjury and obstruction of justice, and yet those are the things he did.
can we agree on what qualifies as a "good reason" to hate (dehumanize) someone ?
Certainly not the mere fact of them being born looking different (which is what racists do). Granted, I don't think calling someone a racist dehumanizes them, it is unfortunately a very common human trait.
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@3RU7AL
and yet through killing many people based on race there is no reason to doubt he was by definition racist.perhaps that wasn't the only reason they had for killing people
Doesn't matter.
Mr. Hitler could inwardly have a heart of gold, having only meant to send countless people to a happy camps which just had a slight misunderstanding of how those people like to be treated... It would not change the end result, and us calling him a racist genocider for his actions.
To use a less deadly example: Bill Clinton defines himself as a loyal husband who would never ever cheat on his wife, and yet he was impeached for sexual immorality.
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@3RU7AL
not all conflicts between people of different skin-tones constitutes "racism"
Misusing a word like racism under such circumstances, can be more telling of the person using it, than the one it is directed at.
Still, Hitler no doubt denied he was racist, and yet through killing many people based on race there is no reason to doubt he was by definition racist.
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@3RU7AL
only people who self-identify as "racists" can be called "racists"...is it somehow "more evil" to hate someone for the color of their skin ?
I disagree, as being racist can be identified from a set of actions, regardless of the frequently low intelligence quotient among racists (see my previous debates on if well known racists are racist).
And yes, it is worse to hate someone for the innate characteristics of their birth, rather than choices they make. As an example, we send people to prison for robbing banks and killing people; whereas we view Mr. Hitler as a bad person for doing similar to Jewish people just for being born.
aren't these all examples of ad hominem attacks ?
Calling someone a racist for various racist actions, is not an ad hominem attack, but rather a basic descriptor. We can't function as a society without ways to identify people; such as me calling you Brual, or you calling me Barney.
Calling someone a racist for acting racist, isn't very different from calling someone a Methodist for devote attendance at a Methodist church.
Granted, either could be leveraged as a pathetic insult. Repeatedly calling a devote Jewish person a Methodist, in spite them telling you they're Jewish not Methodist (and have never done anything to imply they're Methodist). Or calling anyone people Literally Hitler when they haven't killed anyone nor called for the death of anyone (I would consider this an Ad Hominem attack even against most racists, as most racists have done nothing to make it a valid comparison).
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Would you reiki me ?I would reiki me so hard.
Not connected to anything in this thread, so getting into thread derailment territory (plus kinda spammy). Granted, I'm no expert on whatever that is, so it may well be worthy of its own thread.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Ironically Elon Musk has put buying Twitter on hold, citing their bot population.
I've said similar before about DDO, that they prefer bots to real users, as it creates the illusion of content to raise the valuation of the site.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
I stepped back to being an assistant moderator awhile ago now. So for anything non-urgent, whiteflame and/or Supadudz are the moderators to contact.
At a casual glance, this doesn't look like anything for which you'd actually want moderator intervention.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Flies:
Not sure. I would hazard a guess that they use different methods, and fail a lot. Further, with the countless species in question, even if any one of them routinely used a single method, it would be hard to generalize that across all flies.
That send, I'm no fly expert.
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@Conservallectual
Probably half the population here jumped ship from DDO.
I know a couple people have jumped back to enjoy a moderation free experience.
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@SirAnonymous
Thank you for taking such a strong interest in that debate.
Even more so for such a very small part of it, for which I am not spotting any controversy in the comment section.
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@Bones
Sadly yes.
I put quotation marks around scientists, to represent air quotes. One scumbag who claimed that, outright served on the house science committee.
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Conservative "scientists" insist that so long as you get her pregnant, it's doesn't count as rape.
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@Lemming
I will disagree with you on the broadly part. We can acknowledge differences, without believing one is on balance superior or inferior; or otherwise determine how we should treat people.
That said, your closing paragraph is on point.
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@RationalMadman
Why Stay? (response to #49):
I hope that the joy outweighs the stress, even while it's not pure joy all the time.
One part of it that while arguably not true debating (it's me, I argue that), challenging the spread of disinformation from Nazi Apologists and their ilk has many delightful moments.
When someone tries to say Hitler wasn't racist because he didn't do anything wrong (actual debate), it's quite fun to take apart (even if easy), and leaves us with the comedy gold of "Mr. Hitler" as if the literal Adolf Hitler was a Mr. Rogers type figure.
...
A related matter is moderation. I stepped down from being the lead moderator, due to that being almost purely a chore. The welfare of the community via banning the flood of spambots as they sign up is worth it to me, I still tackle that, but trying to evaluate every forum post that gets reported etc. was joyless.
Aside from those spambots, I help a bit, but mostly things which require deeper analysis and such are outside my scope. I still check in on reports for things which need fast action, or obviously merit no action (so as to thin the problem, to decrease burnout in others).
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@RationalMadman
Debating Retirement (response to #47):
As with most decisions anyone makes, there are usually many contributing factors...
Time and stress are the core reasons which come to mind. I was working ~60 hour weeks for quite awhile, in a very stressful environment. I do have more time on my hands right now, as I am between jobs.
And debating while enjoyable to me, is also stressful for a host of reasons. I do put way too much time even into near truisms, and re-read my own work after posting it looking for typos (not that I can do anything once they're posted). And yes, adding to the stress is the worry that I'll be defeated due to low voter turnout (back on DDO, due to vote bombers, I was never comfortable until I had a lead greater than 7 points). Granted, I consider myself to have lost a debate when BladeofTruth voted against me (sure, I can say I was technically correct, but the thrust of my arguments offered inferior logic). Also early on here, there were debates I accepted fully expecting to lose (but still opted to make my opponents fight for their victories).
One of my weaknesses is that I am susceptible to being baited. Pie's ravings and then him proving he's not just a forum troll by agreeing to debate one of his three core complaints, of course set me in the mood for a formal debate. Novice had repeatedly insulted me, and refused to quantify his complaints, and then dared me at the right time (and yes, I put way way way more time into that one than planned).
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