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Debates tend to give me orgasms.
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@Double_R
What is it that you get or are seeking from the time you spend in this site?
I just want to tell people that they are wrong if they disagree with me.
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@Double_R
If you accept the point I just made then why are you here, arguing your views on a debate site?
Do I need a reason? Well, if yes, then I will just use circular reasoning and say "I am here because I am here".
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@hey-yo
If we are trying to convey the author's message (what the bible says) then we look to the author. Although the bible has many author and spans thousands of years, we can still maintain author's message and intent.
Okay, you are obviously unable to stick to the topic.
The topic is not "author's message and intent".
You are unable to tell the difference between "book says" and "author of the book says".
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@Tradesecret
LOL @ you attempt at humour. I haven't added anything to the bible. I have merely indicated that persons under 20 are children. And that as such - consent is an issue.
First you said that you havent added anything to the Bible. Then in another sentence you say "consent is an issue". Show us where the Bible says that. Show us where the Bible says that children cant consent.
I am not making Christianity look bad. You are doing a fine job all by yourself. Even as a Hindu. And I never indicated anything along the lines of what you said.
Did you or did you not say that people under 20 are not to be held accountable for their actions? Common, tell us.
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@Tradesecret
But let me give you a clue. In the first five books of the Bible.
Sorry, we are not dealing with clues here. Give us the verse.
Try the book of Exodus.
Okay, show us which verse in book of Exodus tells us that rape is wrong.
The definition of rape is "no consent"
Now show us where the Bible says that children cant consent.
They didn't have glass windows in the times of the bible. So silly comparison. And besides the argument is not that it did not happen. It is that such an action would be illegal. And the illegality is on the part of the child, but the adult.
You say that Bible says that child's actions are caused by the child. Now explain where does the Bible say that "not being held accountable" means "not being able to consent".
Also, dont forget to give us the verse regarding the age of accountability.
Correction is not the same as holding some accountable.
Accountable by definition means being guilty of something wrong. Therefore, why does the Bible say that children who are not guilty of anything should be punished for something they are not guilty of?
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@3RU7AL
you have still responded
There is no any proof that I responded, since there is no proof that my response exists.
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I mean, list of suspects does get long in some cases.
Not sure who pays if suspect cannot be found.
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@badger
BK is an eyesore, simple as. He should be banned.
I am sorry for being an eyesore.
Its not my fault. I was abused a lot as a child. We dont know what I would have become if I had a normal childhood like other people had. If only I was given the chance and the love I needed to grow into a normal person, maybe, just maybe, troll Korea wouldnt exist today.
Sad story. Lets cry.
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@Sidewalker
it's safe to assume they would be peaceful explorers
Lets hope so.
Any aliens invading Earth would likely have technology far beyond ours. So we would likely lose any war against aliens.
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I mean, if returning to cold war counts as success...
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More importantly, one should not commit "false or" and assume that angels and aliens cannot look the same or similar.
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Well, if God created aliens, we will probably meet them one day. I dont see how that disproves Christianity.
Where in the Bible does it say that aliens dont exist?
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Now let us read full verse and context, so that we see what the Bible really says.
Bible says:
"If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."
Therefore, we see that Bible says that rapist should be punished with death if he raped another man's wife.
But if he rapes a girl who is not married, then Bible doesnt say that there should be any punishment. Bible says that they are to be married even if the victim doesnt want to marry her rapist. So in a way, Bible says that rapist is to be rewarded.
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As we can see, the Bible does not say that the rapist should be punished with death or prison. Bible says that rapist should marry his victim and that the victim can never divorce her rapist.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
The first verse talks about the rape of a married woman, not rape in general. Big difference.
The second verse does not say that rape is wrong. It just says that the man must marry the girl he seduced.
This verse in the Bible says that man must marry the virgin girl if he raped her and if she is not already married:
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." - Deuteronomy 22:28
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He proposed to his cabinet shooting immigrants who approached the border
So he proposed something similar to what South Korea and North Korea already have?
Koreas dont shoot the ones coming in, but they do shoot the ones trying to escape.
Now, I dont see the video or recording where he said that, but then again the media does like to put words in other people's mouth.
North Korea: "If you attack us, we will destroy you"
Media: "North Korea is threatening to destroy USA"
Yeah, the propaganda of media cleverly shaped for dumb masses to swallow.
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@Tradesecret
After all, if persons under the age of 20 are not held accountable for their actions
Adding your words to the Bible is strictly forbidden by the Bible itself. You are supposed to know this.
Plus, you are making Christianity look very bad, because you are saying that the Bible says that 18 year old who rapes and kills a 2 year-old girl is not to be held accountable for what he did.
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@Stephen
Please stop lying and stick to the topic.
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@Tradesecret
After all, if persons under the age of 20 are not held accountable for their actions, then they cannot be said to consent to sexual intercourse.
First, you still didnt show us the verse in the Bible that says how persons under the age of 20 are not held accountable for any actions they do.
Second, you need to show us where the Bible says that not being held accountable means not being able to consent.
Third, show us where the Bible says that rape is wrong.
Finally, show us where the Bible says that sex with a person who cannot consent is rape.
If a child breaks a window, Bible will not say that "a child couldnt have broken the window because children arent held accountable".
The Bible does say to correct children with rod, so Bible obviously doesnt talk about not being held accountable for any action.
Not being held accountable, even if true by the Bible, does not mean that Bible says it means not being able to do something.
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@hey-yo
I use the words of those who created the bible and sustained tradition for thousands of years. They wrote it, they can explain it. Just as any author can explain his or her own written book.
Okay, it seems that you are still confused about the topic.
If author's explanation isnt found in the book, then it stands true that book does not say what the author says.
The topic isnt "author's explanation of the Bible". The topic is "Bible says".
Too much evidence that conflicts with o.p. We can'ts have that now. We mustn't negate precious! Silly hobbits.
What the fuck
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@hey-yo
children are not of marrying age
Okay, so show us where the Bible says that.
You know, it would be very nice if you stopped confusing your words with words of the Bible.
Bible says to multiply. Children can get pregnant. But you dont see me claiming that Bible says that people should marry children.
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@Kaitlyn
You can drink without being thirsty, but you won't experience positive affect in that.
I would disagree with this too. When I speak a little prayer over a glass of water, I feel good drinking it even if I am not thirsty. I guess its God's magic.
I guess you have to be religious to know that life is good and full of magic.
The only ones complaining about how life is horrible are atheists.
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@Reece101
"We see" is just more circular reasoning, since you cannot prove senses without senses.
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@Stephen
And where does the KJ bible define a child as anyone under the age of 10?
The Biblical definition of a child is irrelevant to the topic. You were given the definition you can use. Now please stick to the topic.
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@Kaitlyn
Okay okay.
I sniff my own laundry, so I dont need yours.
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@Kaitlyn
Most of the people dont have morality, so an appeal to morality would be useless. But they do like extra 2000$ per month.
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@Double_R
there is no reason for anyone to engage in any kind of intellectual discission with you
True. I dont know why people still do it.
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I thought migrants were desirable?
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Sadly, some people believe in antinatalism.
More and more people choose not to have children.
Not having children saves money, of course.
Kindergarten alone costs 2000$ per month.
So yes, there is incentive to not have children.
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@Stephen
Which bible?
Feel free to use any, although I prefer King James.
And can you define "child" in the biblical sense?
Person under 10 years of age is a child.
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@hey-yo
Other people already pointed out that some laws overlay
Tell us which law in the Bible says that its wrong to have sex with children. And please try not to add your words to it to make it sound like it says something it doesnt say.
Christians are not irrelevant. From a third party/neutral position on religion, christians formulated the bible
This is irrelevant. Use words of the Bible, not words of followers of the Bible. If you cannot do that, then you are just talking irrelevant to the topic.
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@IlDiavolo
Mary, the mother of Jesus, got married at around 13yo according to some studies, which was very common back then
Nobody can seriously argue that the average age of marriage was 20 back then.
Plus, Bible saying that a person is "not being responsible for own actions until 20" does not mean that the Bible says how all actions done to that person before 20 are wrong.
"The age of being responsible for actions" is not even mentioned in the Bible. However, being responsible for one's own actions only means that Bible says how individual is to be more punished for sin he commits. It does not say anything about marriage.
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Wylted's intervention was not necessary.
I cannot be banned for saying "Bible says this". That would be absurd, especially on a debate site.
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@Reece101
Basic forms of math such as understanding the difference between 1 thing and 2 things have an evolutionary basis that give animals an advantage in how to navigate the world.
So "1+1=2" because in the world we see that "1+1=2" and it helps us understand the world.
Why does it help us understand the world? Because "1+1=2"?
Thats just more circular reasoning.
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@Tradesecret
There does seem to be a certain age - around 20 when children become adults and responsible for their actions.
The Bible does not say that sex before the age of 20 is wrong, so when saying "responsible for their actions", the Bible does not tell us anything about sex with children being wrong.
The Bible seems to indicate that when a nation is cursed and punished by God for its disobedience that its children would be killed by the enemy, or taken into captivity to become slaves at the whim of society and its laws. Hence, it may be arguable that putting children into such a situation is a curse due to their sin.
That is about slavery, not marriage. Nowhere does the Bible say that marriage is slavery. Even if it did, the Bible does not exactly condemn slavery.
The Bible clearly prohibits sex with one's own children, siblings, mother-in-law, and other close family relationships. It NEVER condones the violation of the vulnerable. It never condones "forcing oneself on another". Yes, there are examples where it happens, but they are soundly condemned.
Can you show us where the Bible says that "sex with children is wrong"?
I know that Bible says how incest is wrong, but what does the Bible say in cases that arent incest?
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@IlDiavolo
We are just talking about what the Bible says. Of course, there are plenty of things Bible doesnt mention, but we are talking about if the Bible says that sex with children is wrong.
If it doesnt say it, then of course it could be debated why the Bible left it out.
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@Sidewalker
Where in the Bible does it say that we should stick to the topic?
lol
Well, I am not sure, but if you dont want to talk about the topic, what will you talk about here? Random crap about me?
Pedophilia is illegal, morally reprehensible, and a violent act that does irreversible damage to children
I am not going to defend pedophilia. That would get me banned.
We are talking about what the Bible says tho, and if it says what you say.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I think that verse is not giving permission to kill those who mock you. The killing was done by God, and the Bible says that God always has a good reason for doing something.
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Why would children need to read books about sex?
What good can come from that? They are not allowed to have sex, so why tease them?
Also, banning books from schools is a common practice for all schools.
Its not like all books are appropriate for children.
Plus, there is a limited amount of books that schools can provide. So schools should choose best books, not random crap.
So the random crap is obviously to be removed.
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@Bella3sp
Old enough for love is 'somewhat' stated.
Bible doesnt say what it means by old enough for love. If it means old enough to want love, then Bible does include children in the equation.
Plus, the Bible did say in Song of Solomon to "not awake love until it awakes itself.".
Therefore, meaning until a person starts wanting love.
Bible Song of Solomon 8:4
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires."
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@Bella3sp
It's not particularly mentioned either, but physical maturity is hinted in the Bible
Donkeys are also hinted in the Bible. It doesnt mean you need a donkey to have sex by Bible's standards.
Where does it say in the Bible:
"You need to have breasts to have sex. No breasts, no sex!"?
Please, point us to that verse.... which would be awkward for flat chested adult girls...
Old enough for love is 'somewhat' stated.
Somewhat stated?
Okay, show us where it says in the Bible "children arent old enough for sex".
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@Bella3sp
Still wrong.
I know that you think its wrong. Please show us where the Bible says it.
Saying that Bible says "sex with children is wrong when you are not married to them" does not mean that Bible says "sex with children is wrong when you are married to them".
The topic deals with what Bible says about all cases, not just sex outside of marriage. Bible says that sex outside of marriage is wrong for all, not just children.
However, it doesnt mean that Bible says how all sex is wrong.
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@hey-yo
Bible does not need to explicitly say "no sex child" in order for us to know bible/god/christians are against it.
Okay, stop.
First, the christians are irrelevant to this topic.
Show us where the Bible says that "sex with a child is wrong".
Bible explicitly said a lot against beastality, homosexuality, incest, trans, sex with another man's wife... and punishment for those...
but it forgot to say anything against sex with children or punishment for it?
Are you calling God an idiot?
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@Savant
I'm pretty sure saying that children must obey their parents while saying a married woman leaves her parents makes childhood and marriage mutually exclusive, per biblical standards.
You can leave your parent's house and still obey your parents. For example, if parents command you to marry.
So please, if you are going to argue, argue with what the topic is about.
Topic is "bible says".
Its not "I think the Bible implies or suggests this".
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@Savant
They're in the bible already, via the verses both of us have linked to.
Could you please stop lying? Please?
The verse you mentioned, as already explained, talks about rape of a married woman. Then you went on to say it talks about rape in general, when it doesnt. Adding your words to the Bible is not allowed. Try again.
Also, you failed to point us to a verse that says how children cant consent to sex.
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@Bella3sp
Also this topic never said married, I just assumed a child and adult having sex. One night stand, if that's more specific.
The topic obviously talks about all cases. Therefore, saying "Bible says that sex with a child is wrong" means it says its wrong in every case.
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@Savant
I am not going to click on your endless link spam. Either show a verse, either admit that Bible doesnt say anywhere that sex with children is wrong.
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@Savant
"Ready for" and "wanting" are different terms with different definitions. It's clearly associated here with age.
Show us where in the Bible does it say that it is associated with age.
"Ready for" is not defined by age, but by conditions. Condition can be "wanting to". Therefore, "Ready for" can mean "wanting to".
It's an analogy; hence, it can be describing two things at once
Yet it doesnt. Unless you assume that people should be naked until marriage, and that God had sex with israel.
Therefore, you cannot possibly make sense of it by your version of it.
Love is required for marriage and marriage is required for sex, per biblical standards
Except that the verse you mentioned does not talk about sex or marriage. Therefore, the word "love" in that verse doesnt talk about sex or marriage, or the love that is required for sex or marriage.
It talks about the love needed for covenant with God.
Show us where in that verse does it say "sex and marriage is not allowed for children" or "children dont have love required for sex or marriage" or "children arent ready for sex".
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@Savant
You don't think the terms "cried for help" and "no one to rescue her" clearly indicate that rape is wrong?
If you are going to add your words to the Bible and basically spam the thread with bunch of links, then better be prepared to actually show where the Bible says that.
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