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@Savant
I already showed verses saying that children are not "old enough for love." Under biblical conditions, love is required for marriage, and marriage is required for sex. Furthermore, the bible doesn't say that people cannot consent under duress, but it's pretty obviously implied when the bible condemns rape, that threatening people to have sex is wrong. Rape is an umbrella term; it's understood that people reading the bible will know what rape is. The bible doesn't specifically condemn shooting a child with a gun, but since murder is condemned, it's obviously included.
More lies. Your verse talks about a covenant with God, not about sex. Besides, "not ready for love" can be understood in a way of "not wanting love", which is what God talks about in his relationship with israel. Nowhere in that verse does it say how is it determined who is ready for love, and it doesnt say that children in general are not ready for love. It merely talks about israel as a nation. Plus, it does not even suggest that love means sex, which if it did, would be absurd in that verse.
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@Savant
Okay, you are obviously using lies at this point. Your link talks about rape of a married woman, not about rape in general.
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@Bella3sp
But one of a few different popular quotes from the Bible:“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea."
Jesus defined sin as breaking of ten commandments and not helping others.
However, the ten commandments dont say that sex with a child is a sin.
Bible says that you must be married to have sex, but Bible doesnt say that you cannot marry a child.
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@Savant
Jesus' quote clearly associates marriage with adulthood.
Please, dont be shy, show us those quotes.
Premarital sex is condemned as well, so restrictions on marriage are restrictions on sex.
Premarital sex is punished by making those people marry.
Exodus 22:16
"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife."
Notice it doesnt say the age of a girl.
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@Savant
Bible numbers 31:18
"But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.".
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@Savant
In ancient Israel, rape was punishable by death.
Show us where the Bible says that.
Sex with children is rape, since children cannot consent.
Show us where the Bible says that children cannot consent to sex.
There are verses that strongly imply children cannot consent until sometime after puberty
You only showed us verses that dont mention consent at all, or sex.
Marriage is always specified in the bible as between a man and a woman, never between children.
Except that Bible defines woman as female. It doesnt set the age. Thats why the Bible says "keep women children for yourselves", basically saying that female children are women.
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@Bella3sp
However, there are many quotes from the Bible that show (support) against it.
The Bible doesnt say anywhere "dont have sex with a child".
Bible directly mentioned trans, homosexuals, incest and beastality. Also mentioned punishment for these as well.
But nowhere did the Bible say "dont have sex with a child". Nowhere did the Bible say "punish the one who has sex with a child".
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@TWS1405_2
Can you read the topic?
Show us where in the Bible does it say that sex with a child is wrong.
Now, I could have made this very difficult for you by making a definition of a child as person under 18, but I did not. I went easy on you.
Bible's talk about growth of breasts is irrelevant, because 1) it doesnt talk about a person or the action of sex, 2) breasts can grow at age 8, which is still a child.
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@Lemming
The metaphor of Jerusalem as a young woman,By 'context,Shows what 'proper action towards a woman is,Implies what 'improper action towards a child is.
Show us where the Bible says that. Also, the word "love" in that context wasnt even used for sex or marriage, but for covenant with God.
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@Lemming
Parables are explained 'most of all,By ourselves.
Explanation =/= adding your words to the Bible
I have stated my view of what the Bible says.
No, you added words to the Bible that arent in the Bible.
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@Lemming
"You grew up and matured and became very beautiful. Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, but you were naked and bare.Then I passed by and saw you, and you were indeed old enough for love. So I spread My cloak over you and covered your nakedness."
This talks about Israel, not about a person. Unless you argue that people should be naked until marriage.
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@Lemming
The obvious route paved,Is don't have sex with children.
You still didnt point to us where the Bible says that. Question is not a claim. The word "wrong" is not used anywhere in that question.
The Bible doesn't 'need to use exact English as I use it.
Sorry, but adding words to the Bible that arent in the Bible just means that you are making stuff up.
Jesus spoke in parables,Parables need be parsed,This need not mean Jesus was not making philosophical statements.
Parables were explained in the Bible. Your viewpoint wasnt even mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
The Bible does not explicitly cite punishment for everything it discourages,It is enough to discourage it
Show us where the Bible discourages sex with children.
To call to human sanity, empathy,The negative effects of child molestation obvious enough.
Okay, show us where the Bible says that.
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@Lemming
But even for the laws stated by the Bible,Many are statements of other civilizations, societies, individuals,'Other than our own,That by our own human nature or history,Might have a connection to ourselves.Not 'always God claimed,The words spoken in the Bible,In my view, 'were I a Christian.
Please stick to the topic. The topic is about what the Bible says.
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@Lemming
A claim is often implicit in a question.
This is your assumption. There is no claim in that question.
Often a question exists, that the questioned comes to the 'claim, themself, through their thought process, following an obvious route, paved by the question.
And which obvious route is paved by that question?
"would you wait for them to grow up?"Implies that it is wrong at 'some point in human development.
This is your assumption. The woman's question at best implies that the woman assumes that those women are not interested in babies, therefore she asks if they would have the patience to wait for babies to grow up.
The question does not anywhere claim that anything is wrong.
I say the Bible says it clear enough in the passage I cited.
Again, the question is not a claim. Bible does not say anywhere in that question the word "wrong".
Not expected 'does mean wrong.Stating that proper behavior is X,Implies that not following X is wrong.
The Bible did not anywhere state that the proper behavior is not to marry children.
Not expected, again, does not mean wrong. "Wrong" demands a punishment or condemnation. "Not expected" does not. Saying "God didnt say he expects X" does not mean "X is wrong".
It is enough in our lives to know it is wrong,Enough that the Bible mentions it,Historical Social commentary of it's time,That we can see some other people knew it as wrong as well. Laws vary,Some the Bible states itself,Other's, we make ourselves,With the Bible as part of our understanding and foundation.(For people who are religious anyhow)
I will not respond to this because it has nothing to do with what the Bible says.
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@TWS1405_2
Let me remind you that the topic is about the Bible saying that sex with children is wrong.
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@TWS1405_2
Please stick to the topic.
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@Lemming
"would you wait for them to grow up?"
This is a question, not a claim.
People often confuse questions for claims. Common problem in Bible readers.
Is there not an implication,Of different stages in an individuals life?Baby, childhood, adult?
Bible does not tell us at what stage is sex with a child wrong.
Is there not implication that marriage 'before of age, is not expected?
"Not expected" does not mean that the Bible says its wrong.
"Wrong" would mean something that should be punished or strongly condemned. The Bible does not anywhere mention the punishment for child marriages. Bible does not anywhere condemn child marriages.
While in the time of Jesus the average age for marriage was much lower than it is today, we still dont know if Bible tells us that marrying a child is wrong or what Bible tells us about what punishment should be used for those who marry children.
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@TWS1405_2
I thought you were leaving DART?
Well, no. Plus, please stick to the topic. This topic is about the Bible, as already mentioned for 10 times.
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@zedvictor4
Please stick to the topic. If you cannot point to us where the Bible says that having sex with children is wrong, then at least dont derail the topic any further.
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@Lemming
I often want, or not,To engage with a topic,Because of the 'people discussing it.
Thats okay, I dont blame you.
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@zedvictor4
But you were making comparisons between then and now.
Wrong.
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@Lemming
I wish you'd be more. . . straightforward honest
Me "being honest or not" does not really have anything to do with the topic. Of course, I do lie sometimes and sometimes I tell the truth, but the topic is not about that.
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@zedvictor4
It doesn't say anything in the bible about a lot of things.
True. However, the topic does not talk about all things not mentioned in the Bible.
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However, if you try to prove something, you should at least make sure its not circular reasoning lol.
Sadly, all math is circular reasoning. Thats why I dont believe in it.
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Reminder: Mods have already explained to you that just because Bible says something or allows something, that doesnt mean you should follow the Bible.
Where in the Bible does it say that sex with a child is wrong?
What does the Bible say about child marriage?
What does the Bible say about a punishment for a man who marries a child and has sex with her?
Bible does tell people to obey the government and follow the law of the land, but Bible doesnt say its mandatory to follow human laws. Some countries allow child marriages. Some dont.
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Time to say goodbye to this site.
I did think that this was a debate site, but in reality, this site is just a bunch of people insulting each other and fighting for virtual points. There are plenty of other sites for me to spend my time on that are much better than this site.
Since its obvious that certain mod wants me to be banned to the point where he had to encourage people to vote for my ban by lying to them, one thing is obvious.
I am not going to spend my time on a site where mods do that. I am not going to play silly games with mods. I am not a toy that mods will kick around as they go.
I am leaving this site and will never return. You know who is to blame.
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Okay, so the voting has begun.
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@zedvictor4
if creation is the foundation of evolution why would the process suddenly stop after several billion years
God can stop any process. Several billion years? God can make anything happen, including to make it seem to you that there were billions of years when there were only 6000 years in fact.
and the magic dude suddenly decide to make a unique animal.
Not a unique animal. He made a human. Humans are not animals. God does what God wants. Therefore, saying "we dont know why God did it" doesnt mean "God didnt do it".
Same format as most higher mammals, and other animals
Doesnt make you an animal. Humans are not animals. If you are incapable of telling a difference between a human and a dog, I dont know what to tell you. I will pray for you.
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@Sidewalker
What does God tell us about pedophiles?
Read the Bible and you will know.
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@Sidewalker
What does the Bible say about pedophiles?
Are you going to tell us?
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I said:
"Have you heard of Bodo League massacre, where the first South Korean president killed 200,000 civilians?
He responded:
"It is true that Syngman had to violently surpress several uprisings during his term. The difference being that Syngman was pro-democracy, pro-civil rights"
I am not going to say who said this, but I am guessing that he thinks its okay to kill 200,000 civilians if you are pro-democracy.
I am guessing his logic goes like:
"P1: Killing civilians is different if you are pro-democracy
P2: First South Korean president was pro-democracy
Conclusion: It was okay for first South Korean president to kill civilians."
This person was obviously justifying mass murder, so I was wondering if thats a violation of CoC.
Of course, I myself felt disgusted at those words. How could someone justify the murder of civilians? Thats wrong.
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@Tradesecret
God hates sin. That is true. But does that extend to the people? That is a further question.
There is no reason to assume it doesnt. God can love sinners and hate sinners at the same time. Bible says "hate your enemies" and "love your enemies", basically saying that love and hate arent mutually exclusive.
I thought that a Hindu would be more flexible and fluid in their position.
Hindu?
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@zedvictor4
I would suggest that creation and evolution are compatible theories.
Until they talk about how man was made.
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The complaints assume that BK's logic here runs something like:P1: All faithful Christians must obey the BibleP2: The Bible command the death of gaysC1: Therefore, faithful Christians must murder gay people
Well, no, I dont remember saying this.
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Respect is when you choose not to tell the truth because it might hurt someone's feelings. It goes too far sometimes, even into lies.
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@FLRW
Wow, you hate Jews and Homosexuals, don't you?
I dont hate Jews. However, they should accept Christ since most of Jews still stick with the Old Testament and reject the update.
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@Double_R
By telling us you would take the bible over the findings of science, and that you don't care care if we showed you proof to contradict your cherished beliefs, you are explicitly telling us that you aren't concerned with finding out what is actually real, but rather just picking and choosing whatever beliefs make you feel good.
You can still present proof if you want to. After all, the goal of atheists is to use proof even when people dont believe in proof, no?
I believe X because the bible says so it's not an argument, it's a pronouncement.
Your sentence is not true, because I consider the Bible as the best argument.
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@Double_R
Reality is defined as "all that exists"
This is just your opinion, really.
Let me guess, "exists" is defined as "that which is reality". So reality is all that is reality.
While I do like circular definitions and all definitions are circular, I most certainly do also prefer some productive conversation that doesnt go in circles.
I do separate "reality" from kingdom of heaven. "Reality" is what we currently live in. It is temporary, and will cease to exist. So really, I dont want anyone to confuse reality that is temporary with kingdom that is eternal.
if there is a heaven and that heaven is run by God, they would be part of reality
Actually, no. Thats why I can believe in God and at the same time not believe in reality. God doesnt need to exist for me to believe in him. Plus, he can come into existence at any time since he is all powerful. He just doesnt want to.
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@FLRW
Wrong answer. Einstein is in hell now. Jesus is in heaven.
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@FLRW
Guess where he is now.
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@Double_R
Translation: I pick and choose what I believe, because I don't care about reality, I only care about what makes me feel good
I do care about this reality a little, maybe the world's tiniest bit. Kingdom of heaven is more important than reality.
Then you're entire thread is disqualified at the outset
All of my arguments were relevant to the topic. But threads like these usually get derailed at least a little sooner or later, true.
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@FLRW
Yes, God killed his only son because he was gay. The Resurrection was just a coverup so God wouldn't lose his God license.
Its an unpardonable sin to insult God.
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@Double_R
Thank you.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I don't think i feel bad or ok with it.I think nothing of it.
Well, I am not sure if "thinking nothing of sin" counts as repentance. I would tell you to talk with God and he will give you instructions when you pray.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Well, maybe. Unless God created more new species animals out of nothing after the flood.
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@Double_R
So, you prefer to live under a dictatorship, is that correct?
Depends on who is the dictator.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Beliving in god means you can't ever wear a dress.Ya can't ever never kiss a boy.And you cant believe in EVO.
We give up a lot to enter the kingdom of heaven.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I know im going to hell for playing them two games of " suck me offs " with my neighbor allllllllll them years ago.
Was your neighbor the same gender as you? Yes? Well, who knows, maybe God will forgive you. Do you believe that what you did was horrible?
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