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@WyIted
Who do you want to lynch?
As much as I think that lynching the Miller is a lazy policy (and I do feel that way), I do think it's usually an acceptable option if we don't have a clearly better one by the end of day one. I do have some townreads, but no clear scumreads, and not enough strong townreads to feel good about lynching anyone in particular. With that in mind, I don't hate the idea of lynching Vader. Aside from him, I feel like choosing anyone to lynch is a bit of a crapshoot.
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@AustinL0926
Other than that, his posts have felt very fluffy, he's posting a lot but also I really didn't have any impression of his posts until I specifically reread him in isolation.
Barney posting a lot of fluff during DP1 is pretty typical of him from what I can tell. I'd say that's NAI.
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Yeah, I'll admit, I haven't been as active as I feel I should be, which is why I was planning to post more detailed thoughts after getting home from work. But give me a chance to actually live up to that after getting off work okay?
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@ILikePie5
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
I am Maria Renard. I am NOT claiming my role right now.
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Yeah, after reading through this discussion on my break, I still side with Savant. I don't think he's lying when he says that he was just try to say that That2 low posting was merely NAI; in fact, that's how I myself read it as well.
I'm at work right now, will post more later, but Vader and Luna come off as pretty towny to me so far.
I'm at work right now, will post more later, but Vader and Luna come off as pretty towny to me so far.
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@ILikePie5
Odd that he thought That2 was a noob because he hadn’t played with her, yet said nothing last game about Bullish being a noob. It’s a weird assumption to make
Eh, I'm not sure that really means anything here. Savant only brought up That2's supposed noob status because she hadn't said anything yet at that point.
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@Barney
The problem I think we'll be stuck with today is that if we don't lynch you, the doubt will not abate and mafia can easily push a lynch on you later. Whereas today, we are really unlikely to identify one of them, so it almost always ends in a mislynch.
Eh, I don't think it's really that unlikely for us to lynch mafia day one, though it is true that in practice, we usually don't. Regardless, I think policy lynching the claimed Miller is just a really boring and lame meta. Maybe I'll vote for Vader if he's our only clearly reasonable option by the end of the day, but not yet. I still prefer that we try to actually scumhunt.
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I'm leaning towards Vader's claim likely being genuine for now. My character is female.
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And with that, I have demonstrated all the knowledge I have about Castlevania, aside from what I was given in my role PM. I can't help with any info regarding theme.
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@Barney
What is a Mafia? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk, have at you!
VTL Barney
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@ILikePie5
Literally everyone except you and Wylted scumread him lol. Cause frankly his play was scummy
Yeah, I can definitely see that, and I don't really blame anyone else for voting him. However, I had a gut feeling, and it didn't lead me astray. It did for almost everyone else, though. Oh, well.
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Well, I'm glad I made the right decision in the end at least. GG.
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@whiteflame
Yeah, it's unfortunate how low engagement this game has been. I don't think anyone expected it to be as experimental as it is, which is probably a contributing factor.
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@whiteflame
I’ll give my choice before I head to bed, but for now, suffice it to say that whichever of you survives this DP likely isn’t surviving the next one anyway.
Yeah, fair enough, I think you're probably right about that. I'd still prefer to stay alive until tomorrow just because it's better for the town to have a town voice contributing than a scum one. Not that I think Bullish is definitely scum, but he might be, and I know for a fact that I'm town.
Also, just something I want to put out there because I forgot about it before, but I can also steal the vote of a dead player. I can steal Owen's vote tonight if I'm alive and no one has any objections.
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@Bullish
Casey is also defending vader for no reason, including calling vader our "towniest player". Vader's role could also totally be scum, and his usage of his role was pretty anti-town. I think it's possible the scum team is vader casey owen. That's probably why they RB'd whiteflame, it would have been game over if we got 0 scum on that wagon.
I don't know why you're so hung up on Vader. I think you're the only one who really susses him rn. Pretty much everyone was townreading him DP1, and he used his role exactly how he said he would. The fact that it turned out to hurt the town is a weak point against him in light of that. Townies do things that hurt the town all the time. You have to find a way to separate that from actual scummy behavior, and behaviorally speaking, I can't find a good reason to scumread him. Plus, I think his role is just very unlikely to go to scum in general. It just feels like it would be too powerful in the hands of the mafia.
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@Bullish
Vote thief on the other hand is inherently scummy because it takes away town's primary power to achieve victory. Vote thieving shouldn't be used on anyone unless they are known scum, and if they are known scum we should just lynch them instead of playing games with stealing votes. Vote thief is like roleblocker, it's not affiliation confimative, but it leans scum.
You're right that it's traditionally a scum role, but Austin has made it town before. Also, I didn't use my role last night. I waived, as I already said.
Casey is probably the defining vote in lynching Pie instead of Owen on DP1. It's basically consensus at this point Owen is scum. Owen looks like he gave up. Casey was on a scummy wagon.
I know that my vote makes me seem a bit scummy, and I realized that at the time as well, but I think I've explained my reasoning behind it fairly well. I believed Wylted was town and agreed with his reasoning. On the other hand, I think Pie voting for himself was a stupid move, unless he really was the Godfather, in which case it was a genius move. Knowing Pie, I can't discount the latter at all.
On the other hand, if you think he was town, he sussed you. Personally, I'm not convinced you're scum, but I do think that out of everyone currently alive, you're probably the most likely to be scum.
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@whiteflame
Okay, got a little bit of time on my break to respond to people.
That holds true for both of you, though, right? I get your argument about a scum Popular being plausible, I just don’t think it shifts the narrative in your favor.
Yeah, fair enough, I'm just pointing out that Popular is not inherently town. Austin is a big believer in the idea that role confirmation ≠ affiliation confirmation, and he's said that's part of his design philosophy in the past.
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@Bullish
I believe your role does what you say it does. It just doesn't town confirm you. With roles like mine and Luna's, I don't think it would necessarily be unbalanced in the hands of scum.
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My work day is about to start, I'll talk more later. Voted Bullish for obvious reasons.
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@whiteflame
I see two posts in a row stating that Bullish should be on Savant’s elimination by Savant himself and a response afterward from Bullish. I’d be sussing him if he wasn’t on the elimination, so why is this surprising to you?
Whoops, guess I skipped over that. I was going off what I remembered Bullish saying (that he was going to abstain).
In retrospect, we really should have considered the possibility of you getting roleblocked. Damn.
Owen is basically deadweight at this point, so it's hard for me to think of a reason not to vote for him.
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@Bullish
I am voting savant, to be clear.
In that case, I will abstain
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@Bullish
He's role confirmed, not affiliation confirmed, and his usage of his role has been anti-town.
You're right that the swap turned out to hurt the town, but being anti-town is not the same as being scummy, and Vader did use his role the way he said he would. Behaviorally speaking, I don't see a reason to scumread him.
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@whiteflame
I basically agree that Earth, Savant, and our towniest other player should be on the lynch. Personally, I think that would probably be Vader, and he has already said he'll vote for Savant. I think the rest of us should abstain.
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@Savant
Tbh, I'm not sure what the ideal course of action is here in regards to using our roles. I'd like to hear Savant's perspective.
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@Bullish
Or, if casey is scum and vote stealer, they can just steal earth's 3 votes to kill earth.
My role is a nighttime role, hence why I said I waived my action last night.
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@Best.Korea
Children are banned on debate art.
From the Code of Conduct:
You can still be under 18 and a user here, you just can't be a pre-teen.
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@Lunatic
Vote for me. Wylted still can use his role. I was vanillized last night, but was told it doesn't come into effect until tonight, meaning my role on earth will still have worked, but after tonight I am useless. If you have reason to think wylted is town keep him alive. Also wylted will be more active than me.
Alright, changing my vote to you.
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I think Wylted v Luna is likely town v town. I think I might prefer that Wylted stay alive because of his role, but he is willing to die and it seems like the balance is in favor of him being voted out today, so I will vote for him to vote along with the rest of the town.
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@whiteflame
Behaviorally, I’d say I’m slightly leaning towards you, though the Vote Thief claim leans a little more sus than the degrading Popular, so this is going to take some discussion.
That's fair, however I would like to point out again that in Austin's UPick Mafia, the Vote Thief was town while I was a Popular scum player, so it's absolutely possible that the same thing happened in this game.
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I think everyone needs to publically state how they're going to vote on each matchup before the deadline. As for me, I feel like this one is a tossup, but I will vote for Earth over Savant (even though I feel like Savant is town, Earth is a more solid read) and Owen over Whiteflame. Obviously, I will vote for Bullish in our matchup.
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Oh, I forgot to mention this, but I waived my action last night.
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I was unsure about Wylted throughout DP1 until right at the end when he suddenly began urging everyone to vote for Pie instead. Something about the way he was posting so urgently, it felt so genuine to me. The way people talk when they're flailing really says a lot. I also liked his claim, it makes a lot of sense to me that a role like that would exist in this game. I know I could be wrong, but I have a gutread, and I always trust it when it comes to Wylted. The problem is, if I'm right about him, then I feel like Wylted v Luna is town v town, and I really don't want either of them to die. Assuming they're telling the truth, they both have good roles.
Also worth noting that unless there are four scum and Pie was town, at least one of these matchups is town v town guaranteed.
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@WyIted
So pie suggests the mass claim and then demands I do it first assuming I would be offline the remainder of the DP and he could weasel out of it. Anyone still online needs to vote him
Actually, you do have a point here. I didn't like how Pie avoided claiming himself, and he is in my PoE. Okay, maybe it's just because of the time pressure, but you've convinced me.
VTL Pie
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I think Bullish is definitely telling the truth about his role, but Austin has made Popular a scum role before. I myself was a popular scum player in UPick. I'm not sure how it all balances out in this game.
Something about Wylted feels off to me. The way he wants to play it safe and lynch someone who has a weak role instead of scumhunting doesn't feel like his normal town play. I don't like it.
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@whiteflame
I’m the Sensor. That’s why I said earlier that I had further reason to believe Earth’s role because the information he gains dovetails well with mine given the secret ballot. I’d like to align my use with his if possible, but I also don’t want to tip off scum on the when of it.
As in this type of Sensor? Interesting. I can see that.
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@Owen_T
Owen, can you fully explain your role and justification?
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@WyIted
I feel like we have a good chance to vote out scum today tbh, which would be hugely advantageous. That said, if we can't come to an agreement soon, I'll volunteer myself.
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@ILikePie5
Pie, I think you are the only one who thinks Popular is scummy. Though I will note that it was a scum role in the last Austin game in which it appeared. That game also had a town Vote Thief, which is what I am, since Kritiks undermine the entire framework upon which an argument stands.
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I'm thinking the scum team is among Pie, Owen, Wylted and Bullish. Pie feels like the least likely to be scum to me. Just a gut feeling.
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@Vader
I don't like Savant. He's pointing out a whole lot of nothing
I disagree. The way Savant posted his code, corrected it after realizing an error, and posted his new results just feels very genuine to me, not scummy at all. Savant goes into my town pile as well.
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Hey all, I'm working overtime again today. I have a small break now but I'll check in when I can.
Don't know what Owen's vote count is right now, I won't vote him in case he's at L-1, but I'm fine with seeking a claim from him.
Lunatic's claim seems quite strong, and it would be a really bold fakeclaim for scum. I have a hard time believing he made all that up. Luna goes into my town pile along with Earth and Vader. WF feels towny to me as well, though that's mostly a gutread.
I think if we eliminate one of the players in the remainder, we have a really good chance of hitting scum.
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