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@Earth
I am the 2x vote revealer. At any point during the day or night, I can choose a match and receive the vote for that match. The justification is that the ballot contains the reason for decision along with a tally of the vote for that debate.
I can believe that tbh. Would be a pretty bold claim if fake.
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@ILikePie5
If we’re in agreement that there are 3 scum, it’s best to look for themes where 7 people fit and 3 people don’t. Unless scum know the theme right away, they probably didn’t have time to search up a fake claim. And if they did, it’s going to be hard for them to align to their role.
Noted, though it's also worth pointing out that Austin said in the signups thread that there would be a fakeclaim mechanic known only to scum.
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@whiteflame
I've seen it over a dozen times and it's become a badge of honor for my family to basically be able to quote the whole thing from memory.
For me and my family, the movie we can all practically recite from memory is Hoodwinked. If you haven't heard of it, it's an indie animated movie from the mid-00s. The animation itself is pretty bad even for the time it was made, but if you can get past that, the writing is great. So many quotable lines. Unfortunately, it never got a sequel. I know that IMDB and Wikipedia say that there's a movie called "Hoodwinked Too: Hood vs Evil", but it's all just an elaborate hoax. There is no sequel to Hoodwinked.
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@whiteflame
Hey, another Holy Grail fan. Come, we will feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chulapas!
I've actually only seen the movie one time, though my family (and my dad in particular) was always quoting it. I found the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch bit in particular to be quite memorable. The whole "thou shalt not wait two seconds, thou shalt not wait four seconds" stuck with me just because there are genuinely so many passages in the old testament that are actually written just like that. And then the line "five is right out"... Perfect comedic timing.
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@WyIted
Also I think the real divide here is things relating to the theory of debate vs rules of debate, and we should lynch earth.
Interesting idea. I can see that being the split, though the problem with this kind of theme split analysis is that you have to assume that at least one member of the scum team did not fake their character claim, and that more often than not does not happen. That's the problem with theme analysis when you don't have are least one scum flip.
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@whiteflame
there are likely 3 based on what I expect would be the balance Austin would want to strike. It's kind of a Holy Hand Grenade situation where two is too few (risks a very early loss for scum) and four is too much (places scum in too powerful of a position to control the vote).
I'm inclined to agree with this. Three scum seems like the natural balance for this particular setup. Five scum is right out.
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Honestly, I feel like trying to solve the theme split is often an exercise in vanity when you don't have at least one scum flip. It's better to focus on behavior imo. Vader gives strong towny vibes. Whiteflame tilts town for me right now. I don't have any behavioral scumreads yet.
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Honestly, Vader seems pretty solidly towny to me. Hard for me to see a good reason not to nominate him.
VTN Vader
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@WyIted
Basically the player who is nominated won't be placed into the knockout tournament during Round 2.
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
I'm Kritiks. I'll stick with the pattern of picking active players and choose Pie to go next.
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@whiteflame
Was hoping to take a break to work on the design for the next game. I'll consider it, though.
Fair enough
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@whiteflame
Is one of the most prominent debaters from DDO and on here really going to sit this one out?
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@Lunatic
First Wylted game eh? Good times xD
Nope, not my first one. Maybe my last one, though.
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I'm going to be honest here. This whole game is completely insane and feels almost bastard to me. I have no idea what's going on or how to determine who is a demon or an angel, and I hardly care. I'm going to meet up with family soon. We're going to see a hockey game tonight. I'm going to go have fun doing that instead. Maybe I'll return to this thread tomorrow, idk. The rest of you can do whatever. Lynch me if you want, idc.
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Whoops, just saw this just now.
I am getting really tired of dying NP1.
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I'm okay with pushing Earth for a claim. I actually do consider him to be genuinely unreadable, at least during DP1, but even for his standards, I'm unimpressed with his low activity in a large game with much to comment on. As far as outright scumreads go, I'm ambivalent on Pie but still have a slight scumread on Luna. His response to Mharman was good imo, but I still don't like his initial push on Banana and feel like it was a little unusual for him. I'd be fine with a lynch on him today if we don't have any better options. I'll join the wagon on Earth for now, but I still want Luna's claim tbh.
Unvote
VTL Earth
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I like Barney's effort in post #350. It seems to reflect a genuine thought process, and that's hard to convincingly produce as scum.
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Do you townread or scumread Pie?
Great question. I still think his sus on Banana is stupid, but he clearly does actually have information on the game like he said he did. With only relatively few of us being active, I am beginning to wonder if you vs Pie is a town v town fight that scum are letting play out for their own benefit. I had a scumread on him before, but now I'm unsure what to think of Pie.
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@Mharman
My thought here is if your role has some power to it, scum would be more likely to know about it. If your role has enough chaos for town, I can see how town would be informed.
I think you're assuming things you shouldn't be assuming.
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@Mharman
Do you think town or scum should know about it more if they are informed?
Honestly, that's really tough for me to say. I know what sort of information Pie knows, but I don't know how or the extent to which he knows the information, and I doubt he's going to be very forthcoming about any of that until the end of this DP at least.
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@Mharman
If you think you have some hard evidence Pie is town, better say so quick. I'm open-minded and no, I DO NOT need to know what the evidence is. aIf you have something, I'd have to conclude you and Pie are scum buddies (which is unlikely, so I'm not gonna) for Pie to remain a scumread of mine.
Actually, after his last response to me in our back-and-forth, I'm convinced that Pie does actually know something after all. I won't divulge too much; but he worded things the way he did because he knows something, and knows that I know it as well. It's just a question of whether he knows that because of having an informational town role or an informational mafia role.
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Good vs bad is your opinion. You can’t determine right vs wrong until endgame. Even if Austin and Earth didn’t screw themselves over, my logic was “bad” and you should’ve pursued me.
I was the mod in the game where you pursued Earth and I was scum in the game where you pursued Austin, who I also wanted to lynch (in retrospect, we probably should have gone for Savant instead). In any case, it's like I just said -- your reasoning ended up being wrong in those games, but I don't think it was bad.
Like, one thing I've noticed about Mharman is that he tends to reason quite openly and be very transparent about his thoughts, but in Inheritance Cycle, he seemed to do that a bit less from my recollection -- not saying as much and letting the town fight itself. The problem is that as scum, you know who is town and thus can generally see the reasons to townread anybody, which makes coming up with solid reasons to scumread someone harder. Townies don't have to fake their scumreads. Mharman copes with this by posting less. You cope with this by trying to find small problems with townies and making them out to be bigger than they really are. That's where what I consider to be bad logic comes into play. You're right that it is largely based on opinion, but to me, it's meaningful. It's why I sus both you and Luna -- your reads on Banana don't feel genuine to me.
Why’s it interesting. I was trying to be ironic.
I thought it was evidence you actually knew something after all, supporting your softclaim. Apparently not.
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@ILikePie5
I quit in Mayday Mafia. And idr Luna using that behavior in UPick. Anyways that’s besides the point.
You quit at the beginning of DP3. I had a strong sus on you starting at the end of DP1. And if all this is bedsides the point, then what is the point you're trying to make anyway?
You’re ignoring all the times my “bad logic” got a townie lynched. Earth and Austin come to mind recently. Like I said, it’s NAI.
Austin was a special case since if he was town after all, GP would just revive him and he'd be confirmed townie, plus he'd lose his negative utility status. Not to mention, his claim to have been doing a reaction test and his pivot to Savant were pretty sus on their own. Earth also made himself a target by claiming to be a DP3 Informed Townie, which is itself a pretty sus claim. So yes, obviously you aren't always correct as town. I never said you were. The difference is that in those games, your reasoning was not bad, it was merely wrong. There's a difference.
I know it’s ironic, that’s why I said it, you just don’t get it.
Now that's interesting. That does actually make me reconsider things a bit.
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@ILikePie5
And when I flip town, you’re going to be like wow, it really was NAI. There’s a reason why people can’t read me, especially those who have been playing for a while. I didn’t say stop looking at my behavior, you’re entitled to your opinion. I asked you about your thoughts on Mharman.
This is such a scummy response lol. No, you didn't use the exact words "stop looking at my behavior", but you did tell me that you couldn't be read based on your behavior and directed my attention elsewhere. That's basically the same thing. It's also not true that people can't read you. I correctly identified you as scum based on behavior during Mayday Mafia as I've already said. Luna also caught you at the end of DP1 of UPick Mafia. Remember this?
Look at pie trying to set up future mislynches. That logic like just made savant look so town to me. Pie is 100% leading a mislynch and trying to set me up for a mislynch tomorrow. That logic is so so bad
Luna was 100% right here. Your logic is bad when you are scum. That's why I sus you, and that's why you're trying to steer the conversation away from your reasoning on Banana.
You sure love activism against me. It’s admirable that you’re being an activist, but I’m literally town.
This statement is actually pretty ironic in this particular game, lol. You'll see why later.
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Does anyone else think it's SUPER sus how Pie is telling me not to look at his behavior?
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@ILikePie5
You’re forgetting that my behavior is NAI 99% of the time.
That's not true. Behavior is how you catch people in this game. I knew you were sus from your behavior at the end of DP1 of Mayday Mafia, but I didn't stick to my guns, which I still regret slightly, although the town won that game anyway. The fact that you're telling me NOT to pay attention to your behavior and look elsewhere is inherently very scummy.
What are your thoughts on Mharman trying to play both sides for Owen and joining you immediately after you voted. Oh and also the obsession over the information I have.
I didn't see him as try to play both sides for Owen. He was being very open and transparent about his thought process, as he does as town. Owen is a null read for reasons he has clearly explained. Also, he's been consistent about his scumreads, and the fact that he voted for you doesn't strike me as odd, especially given how he's made it clear he still suspects Luna more. As for considering the information you (supposedly) have, it's cost-benefit analysis.
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@ILikePie5
The mountain out of a molehill got GP lynched albeit you being the one to lead it. All the townies agreed.
That wasn't a mere molehill. GP's claim was inherently very sus, and his behavior only hurt his case further. Plus, he had a bona fide scum slip by the end of the day.
I think 14 pages is a hyperbole. I haven’t seen anyone say their PM was that long. She’s an anomaly.
That's better reasoning, but you have to consider that this is Wylted we're talking about here. A long diary entry about the Israel-Hamas conflict is hardly inexplicable. I don't think scum Banana would likely choose to make herself stand out in that way.
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@Mharman
Casey, do you wanna switch onto Lunatic to give Pie some time for whatever he’s planning or do you wanna stay the course on him?
Tbh, I want claims from both of them. I don't really care much about the order in which we get claims, but I want to keep pressure on both of them for now. I don't know what Pie is supposedly planning, but given how he's already announced publicly that he has some sort of information, I don't know how effective his plan to catch scum will even be. My gut also has me slightly more sus of Pie than Luna. I'm keeping my vote on Pie for now.
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@Vader
If Pie were scum I feel like he's be less relaxed and just hop on a wagon to hop on the wagon. Seems to invested into Banana to be scum
I disagree. Scum Pie actively (and successfully) pushed Savant in DP1 of UPick Mafia and also aggressively pushed Moozer during DP1 of Mayday Mafia. This is absolutely in line with his scum play, and that's why I don't like it.
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@Owen_T
I agree with your logic, but isn't Pie always crazy aggressive?
He tends to be somewhat aggressive in general, but his logic is better when he is town. His reasoning for wanting to lynch Moozer during DP1 of Mayday Mafia was similarly specious. That's what's setting off alarm bells for me.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
Mharman's analysis comes off as very towny to me. Solid town read on Mharman.
I don't like Pie and Luna's reasoning for sussing Banana. I think it was obvious that she didn't read the entire PM because it wasn't necessary to understand the justification for her role. Pie in particular is reminding me of DP1 of UPick Mafia, where he excoriated Savant for making a mistake as town. Granted, the way Savant used his role was stupid, but the fact that he even thought confirming himself as a Vote Thief would be a good move was evidence of a townie thought process, not a scummy one. Here, the supposedly scummy behavior is far more minor and unimportant, but Pie and Luna are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, and I don't like it one bit. I think it might be a good idea to push one of them for a claim.
VTL Pie
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@Vader
Dead players will go to purgatory where the events of this game will determine if they are hell bound and heaven bound and participate in another social deduction game. This game will begin as soon as a predetermine condition is met in this game, if the pre-determined condition is met.
I believe this is where the dual theme comes into play.
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@Lunatic
I don't think our characters have to do with what we voted for. I voted for Heaven/Hell and got a diary entry.
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@Owen_T
I also have a slight town read on White flame for their push back on revealing specific information.
This is good behavioral analysis, though I will counter that Whiteflame is an experienced player and would probably do that sort of thing regardless of his alignment. Right now he's null to me. I would need to see more to have a town read on him.
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I believe Banana for what it's worth. It just kind of made intuitive sense to me that 14 messages worth of info was probably mostly useless and not game-related. My diary entry just served to provide a loose justification for my role and that's basically it; the actual content has no real importance beyond that.
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@whiteflame
Weird that it's 3 votes, but it seems like the roles in this game might trend towards the more unusual.
Given my own role, I can say that that does appear to be the case. Wylted did say this game would be "less experimental" than the last game, which implies this one is still somewhat experimental.
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@WyIted
You're right, plus I confused cryptology with cryptozoology. My bad.
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@Lunatic
GG! I'm still a bit disappointed that I lost in the end, but I managed to make it all the way to LYLO after my partner got lynched DP1 without it being obvious that I was scum. I feel like I could have still won if I put more effort in after the first day. Oh, well. If anything, this game helped prove to me that I do actually have what it takes to be a good scum player. One day, I will get a win as scum that doesn't involve being carried by my partner while a townie throws, lol.
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@Lunatic
NP. And with that, I am logging off for tonight. Here's hoping you make the right decision.
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