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@Skipper_Sr
Oops, I hadn't meant to say "role." I meant side/team.
No one ever claims to be anything other than town. That's the whole point of the game -- to find out who's lying about being town, or to convincingly lie about being town, depending on which team you're on.
I was hasty in thinking that what I said would be convincing in some way. I realize now I am a reasonable suspect
Fair enough I suppose. I can see a noob making this sort of error. I don't think it's alignment-indicative, however.
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@Mharman
I gotta give him props for the plan, too. I OMGUSed Pie in Villainous Villains, and he saw it. So why not start with some terrible logic ("Mharman is less active than I expect")?
I agree that calling you out for inactivity when you hadn't said anything yet is a little bit weird, but he didn't say "Mharman is less active than I suspect." It's weird that you put that in quotes when he didn't say that. What he actually said was, "For someone who was being a little pushy about getting people to join, you sure haven't bothered to show up yet. By all means, come join the thread." Personally, I read his vote as being an activity vote first and foremost. What makes you so sure it was a reaction test?
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@Skipper_Sr
I agree it is reasonable to suspect me.
Great, glad we had this conversation. But then, what was the point of bringing up that players that disagree may be mafia? Earlier, you said:
I only say this because those who have voiced otherwise may be mafia since they can tell I am not one of them, but they want us all to think I am mafia so we're tricked.
But now you're saying that it's actually reasonable to suspect you. So, what message exactly are you trying to convey? What point are you trying to make?
I think me being so immediately open about my role is no longer a helpful tactic
You weren't really open about it at all. Literally the only thing I know about your role is that you are a boss, like everyone else apparently, and have a role which is helpful to the town. Cool.
Mharman, I also see you and your message and I will respond to it, but I also have the sudden desire for a midnight snack and need to run to Taco Bell before they close. I'll be back.
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Current Mafia:
Earth - Paper Mario Mafia
Signups:
None
In the Hopper:
Mharman - Gunplay Mafia
Cerulean - Albums Mafia
Pie - Inheritance Cycle Mafia
Lunatic- TBD
Casey Risk - Indie Bands Mafia
On Hold:
None
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@Skipper_Sr
I've also pointed out that there may be mafia members who are trying to keep ambiguity around me being a townie or not by implying they're not sure. It's less about me being lynched and more about my team wasting time
I mean, I guess I get what you're saying, but that's... also something you don't really need to point out. All of us here have at least a fair amount of experience with mafia (aside from you of course). We know how the game generally goes. Also, you're not a confirmed townie or anything, so yeah, it is reasonable to keep you in mind as a potential lynch. Do you disagree? If you scumread me or Mharman, just say so. No reason to keep quiet about it.
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@Mharman
I'll say this: You do have a point in that the whole town has reached an impasse.Do you wanna be the first to say something, or would you prefer it be me? I suppose I've observed enough.
I mean, I think this conversation between Skipper and me that just started might lead us somewhere, so there's that. Feel free to weigh in on it, if you please.
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@Skipper_Sr
I don't think it was aggressive how I said it. I'm trying to confirm things so people don't get distracted by what I say, so it instead is helpful to the town side
You haven't confirmed anything, though. All you've done is just reiterate that Wylted townreads you. Okay. If you're really a townie though, your primary concern shouldn't be being potentially scumread by other players, especially at this early point in the game. It should be trying to scumhunt and read other players. Being overly concerned about being lynched is a scumtell.
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@Skipper_Sr
I am a townie, even WyIted agrees.
Buddy, you don't need to defend yourself so aggressively. No one's pointing their finger of suspicion at you yet. Except for me just now, because I find this sudden aggressiveness to be odd.
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Okay, expanding a bit on my reads
Skipper - He could be faking being a clueless noob, I'll grant that. That being said, the whole exchange about Discord comes off as townie to me. I'd need to see some better evidence before I'd really scumread him.
Skipper - He could be faking being a clueless noob, I'll grant that. That being said, the whole exchange about Discord comes off as townie to me. I'd need to see some better evidence before I'd really scumread him.
Wylted - mostly just a gutread, but he's town. It's like I said in the last game, my reads are often wrong, except when it comes to Wylted. I'm always right about him, and he's town. There's no one particular thing he's done or said to make me feel this way, it's just my intuition, but I trust it 100%.
Whiteflame - One thing I've noticed about WF's scum game is that he'll try and act like he does as town, trying to move the game forward and helping the town out, except he never actually does that much or provides much genuine insight. It's part of why I scumread him early in the last game (and was right). But here, he was the one who picked up on the fact that we all appear to be bosses from Paper Mario. Now, it's definitely possible that he could have figured that out on his own based on the fakeclaim given by Earth, so I suppose I shouldn't read too much into it. For now, however, I do lean town on WF.
Mharman - not sure how to feel about him. He hasn't said too much yet, but comparing what he has said to last game, it already feels like he's doing less to try and get the game moving and figure stuff out. Might be reading too deep into it though. Null read for now.
Null read on everyone else I haven't mentioned. No one else has really given me much to work with yet.
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I'll give more detailed reads later. For now, I'll say that I believe Skipper is probably noob town. Wylted is town too.
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I'm meeting some friends for dinner in just a bit, so I'll be offline for a few hours. See y'all later.
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@Skipper_Sr
What does VTL, SOP, and MYLO/LYLO mean?
VTL - Vote to Lynch. Use this when voting for someone. Always put it in bold.
SOP - Standard Operating Procedure. Certain roles where it's typical to claim them immediately if you have that role, because they're bad for the town. Hated, Miller, and Paranoid Gun Owner are all typically considered SOP roles.
MYLO/LYLO - Mislynch and Lose; Lynch and lose. MYLO is when there are two more remaining townies than scum; LYLO is when town outnumbers the mafia by only one. In both cases, if the town lynches the wrong person, they lose instantly because the mafia will be at parity with the town. The difference is that at MYLO, the town can choose to simply lynch no one, whereas at LYLO you don't have that option.
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@Skipper_Sr
No, this is my first time playing online Mafia. I'm looking forward to it
In that case, welcome! Please be sure not to copy-paste your role PM. Earth didn't really make a list of rules this game, but doing that will get you mod-killed. I only bring this up because we've had this happen a couple times in the past with new players.
Which game in the series is your character from? You can check the Super Mario Wiki if you're not sure.
Unvote
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@Cerulean
It might be worthwhile for everyone to claim which Paper Mario game they're from- the title of this Mafia game makes it ambiguous as to whether characters are from all of the Paper Mario games or just the original. I'm from the original.
Yeah, that's what I was wondering about as well -- are the characters in this game from across the series, or just the original Paper Mario? Tubba Blubba only appears in the first Paper Mario game according to the wiki, so I'm thinking it might just be that we're all from that one.
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@WyIted
Didn't I just tell you a few games ago how stupid it is to claim this.
Did you? I don't exactly remember that. Regardless, it's treated as SOP here, that's why I claimed it.
I bought the paper Mario game for my son and have been forced to play quite a few times. With that said I think all of the characters in paper Mario have been used in most modern Mario games
You're probably thinking of one of the newer Paper Mario games. The older ones released before Sticker Star actually had lots of original characters.
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@ILikePie5
Alright, I asked and apparently it does deactivate at MYLO/LYLO.
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@whiteflame
My knowledge of the Paper Mario games is virtually nonexistent. I know the Mario franchise as a whole decently well, but I suspect most of the claims will be specific to these games, so my theme knowledge will be pretty minimal at best.
I've played Super Paper Mario. My character in Villainous Villains was actually from that game. I've never played any of the other Paper Mario games, however, and my knowledge of them is pretty superficial.
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@ILikePie5
Cool. Does the effect go away at MYLO/LYLO?
Not according to my role PM.
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@Skipper_Sr
VTL Skipper
Have you played this game before? This is my first time playing with you. I don't think I know anything about you.
Have you played this game before? This is my first time playing with you. I don't think I know anything about you.
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Let's a-go!
SOP time: I am Tubba Blubba. Despite my tough appearance, I am actually quite sensitive and a big pushover. Because of this, I am the Hated Townie.
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@RemyBrown
It's a social deduction game, an informed minority (the Mafia) vs an uninformed majority (the Town). Be sure to read the guide to forum Mafia. People get picked off one by one until either the Mafia is eliminated or the Town (plus any third parties that may exist) no longer outnumbers the Mafia.
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If I had chosen Mharman to swap with Banana instead of myself, I would have won us the game before DP2 lol.
Sorry your first game was rough for you, Banana. We got a little bit lucky with that WF lynch. There was some real behavioral analysis behind it, but our PM analysis turned out to be simply wrong. After WF died, I'm not sure there's anything you really could have done to save yourself tbh. That reporter claim was always going to make you suspicious, at least a little.
GG!
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@Mharman
Oh, of course, I don't expect Harris to actually win Kansas. I do think it's funny, though, and numbers in the Midwest are good for Dems rn. We're looking at a rightward tilt in the South and a shift back to the left in the Midwest.
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Kansas is at about 40% reporting and Harris is still in the lead????
I mean, I'm not complaining, but that's kinda nuts lmao
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@Moozer325
Just picked two random people
Why? What are your reads?
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@ILikePie5
If anything, your role is garbage. Never been used in a game before.
Eh, that's not exactly true. In Mayday Mafia, I had a 1x Reporter as one of my JOAT abilities. But if it really has never been used unflavored before on DART, then I agree that it's very sus. I also feel like the justification is a little bit weak, but that wouldn't be unique to her this game. I thought WF's justification was weak as well, but he was literally just telling the truth.
Looking at things from the standpoint of "What do Whiteflame's DP1 actions suggest his partner is?" I think you're very unlikely to be scum. You were on his wagon, and that would have been a very risky bus. Banana is likely -- I've already mentioned WF throwing some sus on Banana but not voting for her. Vader is a possibility as well; WF said practically nothing about him.
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@Moozer325
@Owen_T
Hmm... Not sure how to feel about that Cop claim. I'll repeat something I said in the last Luna game:
Cop is a bold claim, but remember what Lunatic said in the endgame thread for US Presidential Elections Mafia:A cop is the single most powerful role a town can have. You are literally being told the affiliation of another player, and on np1 when the player pool is so large and mafia don't know who to roleblock, etc, imagine losing a whole ass mafia player because a player made a correct guess. I think cops should have many counters if they are included in a game. Usually if I put a cop in I either make them extremely counterable like casey did, or more likely just don't include them at all. I've seen cop results break games so quickly before.If Wylted saw that the scum team had nothing like a Lawyer, Godfather, etc., then it would be relatively safe to assume that there is no Cop given that Luna made this game.
Essentially, I view a Cop claim in a Luna game with a bit more suspicion than in an ordinary game. My role is one way that a Cop result could be incorrect. Assuming that Pie is telling the truth, there's also a scum RB'er. He's also limited to odd nights. Putting it all together, I think the claim is at least plausible.
I'd like to hear more from Moozer and Owen. They haven't given much in the way of reads this DP.
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@iamanabanana
It certainly looks good that you said you were willing to hammer him, but at the end of the day our doctor ended up being the one to actually do it. So I have a hard time giving you too much a pass on that.
I was literally about to hammer and had explicitly said I was going to do so, but Wylted swooped in and stole the opportunity from me.
Really, though, I want to hear your explanation as to why I'm likely scum. If I had followed through on my stated intentions to hammer WF, we both would have died and lost the game immediately. So, obviously I couldn't have followed through, but setting myself up to hammer only to not do so would only make me look incredibly suspicious. That goes beyond being a risky move into the realm of suicidal idiot territory. Do you really think that was my plan?
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@ILikePie5
@iamanabanana
I stated that I was suspicious of you a couple of times last day phase. Also I feel like people were letting you off the hook too easily for being on whiteflame, where we just had a game where austin and cerulean tried to frame each other.
I'd buy that argument more if Whiteflame was literally any other role than what he actually was. I wasn't just pushing him, but had actively positioned myself to be the one to hammer him. Again, why would I intentionally set myself up to be the one to hammer my Super Saint partner? That would literally lose us the game instantly.
I probably should have targeted pie if I knew he was going to lie about his promise to claim the next day phase, like he repeatedly promised he would.
Actually, that's a fair point. I don't like how Pie has refrained from fullclaiming. Everyone else has done it by this point.
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@Vader
Not to mention not on the wagon for WF.
Did you... read all of DP1? I was the first person to vote for Whiteflame and was actively pushing him. I only Unvoted so that I could be the one to hammer him, but then Wylted stepped in and did it before I could. Why would I intentionally set myself up to be the one to hammer my Super Saint partner? That would literally lose us the game instantly.
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@Moozer325
@iamanabanana
Alright, so the whole confusion between "Gravedigger" and "Graverobber" from Owen feels very genuine to me, and given the existence of WF's role in this game, I can definitely see it being real.
I'm not exactly sure why Moozer thinks Hated is confirmable without killing him, unless voting for him will outright show that he requires one less vote before he even gets a majority -- Moozer, can you check if this is the case with Luna? In any case, I think it was pretty obvious that he was a 1x Double Voted, so no surprises there. Double Voter can be either alignment, but Hated leans town and behaviorally speaking, Moozer is town to me.
As for Vader, the late Vanilla claim is very convenient for him if he is mafia. Luna does often, thought not always, include just one Vanilla player in his games, but knowing that can also be helpful to scum if they can get away with not claiming early. I know that in the last Luna game, Pie was last to claim and claimed Vanilla when he was actually scum. Vanilla is always going to be a somewhat suspicious claim anyway.
With all that being said, however, while Vader is in my PoE, I think the last scum is either Banana or Pie. They've both claimed some sort of investigative role, and Mharman flipped as an informational role. Gramps is not really investigative per se, so it's not unthinkable that all three really could be in this game, but I'm not super comfortable with that thought either.
Between the two, I lean more towards Banana being scum. Pie was one of the ones actively pushing WF DP1, which is a good sign for him. Losing your partner in a 2v7 game during DP1 is just absolutely devastating. That being said, assuming Pie is scum, he would have known that WF was a Suicide Bomb/Super Saint, so he could have taken a really risky gamble in the hopes that we mislynch someone today and the game becomes MYLO tomorrow. It's not completely out of the question, but I do find it to be very unlikely.
Behaviorally speaking, I'm on the fence about Banana. Everything she has said or done that rubs me the wrong way could be plausibly explained by her just being a noob. Based on behavior alone, I'm not confident about her being mafia, but from my PoE, I think she's probably our best choice.
VTL Banana
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I have a few thoughts for now. I townread Moozer and Owen. Vader claiming Vanilla while being the last to claim is convenient for him, but behaviorally I don't have much reason to sus him. Last scum is probably between Banana and Pie. I'll expand on my thoughts after I get back from voting.
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@Owen_T
Sorry, you said Gravedigger and I thought you were talking about this type of Gravedigger. It's basically the Tracker/Watcher equivalent of a Miller. You can understand why I was upset lol.
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@ILikePie5
Maybe I’m just paranoid after Luna’s previous game
The fact that there were three scum plus a third party was pretty surprising, but even so, this game would have to be absurdly scumsided to have three mafia given everyone's flips/claims so far. I don't buy that there's more than two mafia. If there are, I'm gonna expect a written apology from Luna for making such a lopsided game, or I'm not playing one of his again lol
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@ILikePie5
I feel like there are 3 scum
In a game with a Mafia Super Saint and a Town Compulsive Bus Driver? Plus, I think Moozer is very likely to be town, so add on a Hated Townie. Seems super scumsided to me.
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Tbh, I can see why Whiteflame seemed very frustrated about being lynched DP1. He was literally only telling the truth about his role, aside from the fact that he was scum. I really wish Wylted hadn't been the one to hammer. He would have protected Mharman, I feel quite sure of that. The Mafia got lucky in targeting him.
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@Owen_T
As for you, Owen... Why the FUCK would you not immediately claim Gravedigger, especially after the last game?
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@iamanabanana
Banana, I would like to know why you targeted me specifically.
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@Moozer325
It’s a little weird, but I’m “straight white man”. Since the song is satyrical, I’m a hated townie (Luna didn’t elaborate more, IDK what to tell you), and since the song is about white privilege (while saying the opposite), I’m a double voter because I have privilege or something.
I buy that tbh.
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Busy with work right now, will say more later. I am "That Funny Feeling", a song about juxtaposition and how things are often flipped in our society, making us pay attention to unimportant things while ignoring what really matters. Therefore, I am the Town Compulsive Bus Driver.
Last night, I swapped myself and Banana. I thought I might have been targeted. I also thought Mafia would hesitate to kill Mharman since he'd be too obvious of a choice. Guess I was wrong about that one.
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@WyIted
Will you please put your vote back on Whiteflame?
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Tell ya what. If Banana and Owen don’t show up, we decide between Casey and I.
I think WyIted is the only one who would prefer you to hammer over me. No reason for me not to hammer if Banana doesn't.
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@Mharman
I can hammer whenever you need me to. I understand why everyone else is unsure about Owen, but I still have a town leaning on him tbh. I'd rather hammer than make him do it.
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@WyIted
If Banana doesn't show up pronto, I will hammer. Promise
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