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@Earth
Sorry for not getting online earlier. We don't have much time, and I would like us to have at least one full claim before today ends. Hopefully Earth will get online before that happens.
VTL Earth
VTL Earth
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@Lunatic
In fact I would scum read him for full claiming with only two votes on him.
Fair enough, for me it was just the fact that he ignored the fact that half the players voting for him wanted his full claim that raised an eyebrow for me. I understand not giving it, but not even mentioning the request for a fullclaim was what made me more sus of him. And yeah, I'll fully admit my reason for sussing him in the first place was not a very strong reason, but we have very little to go off of right now in terms of behavior, or... anything, really.
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@Earth
I am Shulk from Xenoblade.
Thank you, but two people so far have asked for your full claim, and that's only a character claim. I find the fact that you only character claimed without giving a reason for not fullclaiming to be a bit sus.
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Lol, it's rich that Earth of all people is trying to accuse someone of being quiet. It feels like he's trying to bring up some point of suspicion just so the rest of us can expand on it. He did the same thing in the last two games where he was scum. I actually scum read Earth for that post.
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@WyIted
Is he the Man who stole fire from the Gods?
No, that's Prometheus. Perseus is the one who killed Medusa.
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@WyIted
Fair enough. I don't think my role can be easily guessed based on my character, so I'll claim. I am Perseus.
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@Lunatic
I'm sorry I haven't been more active. I've been busy with this and that this weekend. I can give my character if the town wants it just for the sake of movement in the thread.
Luna, you have received a vote. (Tagging you because Wylted didn't)
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My role fits my character reasonably well, but it's also not connected to him in an obvious way.
As far as behavior goes, looking back through the DP there's really not much that I notice except for Wylted mentioning a potential modkill and his interaction with Austin. I still don't quite know what to make of that.
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@Owen_T
I think we should try and get claims from a person or two before this DP ends. The trouble is, we have very little info to go off of right now.
There's obviously something going on between Wylted and Austin, but I'm hesitant to get them to reveal more at this stage. I get the feeling it will help the scum more than the town.
I do want to see some actual motion here, so how about this? Give just a little bit of info about where your character comes from if they are fictional (if they are from literature, comics, TV, etc.), as well as their gender if you haven't given it already. We did basically the same thing in Villainous Villains. I'll start. My character is male and comes from Greek mythology.
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I think I know what you're doing.
I, for one, have no idea what Wylted is going on about. For now, I don't want to push Austin for a claim.
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@whiteflame
All four of you decided to include information on your characters that wasn’t asked for. I’m not complaining since none of you narrowed it down all that far, but care to explain why you provided excess detail?
Sure. Basically, my character isn't a real person, but calling them fictional didn't seem quite right with me, as people definitely believed they were real at some point in time. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs, but that was my thought process.
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@Earth
My character is technically fictional, though they would be better described as mythological.
Earth, you go next.
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Oh wow, I actually almost forgot about this one.
Should we do something similar to what we did in Villainous Villains and have everyone say whether their character is real or fictional?
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Current Mafia:
None
Signups:
Pie - Heroic Heroes Mafia
In the Hopper:
Moozer - Middle School Mafia
Casey Risk - US Presidential Elections Mafia
On Hold:
Mharman - Gunplay Mafia
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@whiteflame
I actually thought they were behaviorally town in DP1, though others have disagreed, so that may just be my own personal blinders.
FWIW, I did actually say that I sussed Savant in the DP1 thread. You're right that saying I visited him was a mistake on my part, though. My first thought was actually to say that I had visited Pie, and then I thought about saying I visited JoeBob, but Savant said that I should say I visited him, and I went along with it.
Honestly though, up until the point where I woke up and saw DD had killed me, I felt pretty good about my fakeclaim. I had taken a big gamble with even claiming O'Reilly's rant in the first place, as it's a pretty well-known one, but no one ended up counter-claiming me. I also feel like Reporter made a decent amount of sense for the character personally, though I guess I can understand why it lead to some amount of suspicion on me.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Well, that game was over relatively quickly. I agree with Wylted that my scum game has improved, though. In fact, even though I got lynched DP2, I'd actually say this was my best scum game overall. Sure, I did win in UPick, but tbh Pie carried me that game. This time, I actually felt like I had a really good fakeclaim that probably would have worked out, if everyone hadn't sussed it for dumb reasons. Barney, why would Wylted of all people make Fox News the bad guys in one of his games on the basis of being Fox News?
And DD, you may have killed me, but I give you zero credit for figuring me out, because your reasons for sussing me weren't even factually correct! I absolutely did not describe my role as a Watcher. This is what I said about my role:
I am the Reporter. I can target someone at night to see if they visited anyone. Last night I targeted Savant, who did not visit anyone.
Then, when Whiteflame said that would make me a Tracker, I clarified:
Not quite. I only get to see if my target visited anyone, not who they visited.
How on Earth did you get Watcher out of that? And for the rest of you, why did none of you point this out?
Again, yes, you were right that I was scum, but your basis for believing that I was mafia was completely off. You were right for all the wrong reasons.
Still, GG. I definitely feel like we could have made better usage of the Role Swapper in the end.
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@Owen_T
Howard Dean's infamous scream did some serious damage to is campaign. People stopped voting for him, hence the no voting for me.
That... actually kind of makes sense. To be clear, is your ability a one time use?
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@ILikePie5
@Discipulus_Didicit
Either way, help me pressure Disc
Disc is a overall a null read for me, but I do think it would be helpful to get at least one claim from one of the players who has claimed a time travel role, so I'm okay with this.
VTL DD
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@ILikePie5
What’s your justification?
Bill O'Reilly was a host on Fox News, hence I am the reporter.
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@whiteflame
So a Tracker, then.
Not quite. I only get to see if my target visited anyone, not who they visited.
Why target Savant?
Savant was one of the three people I had a scum leaning on DP1, along with Owen and JoeBob.
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
Alright, fair enough. I am the Reporter. I can target someone at night to see if they visited anyone. Last night I targeted Savant, who did not visit anyone.
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Alright, I'll say this much: I am an investigative role. I'd prefer to not give more detail just yet.
Also, please remember to tag me if you are going to vote for me.
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I'm going to party at a friend's house. For now, I will say that I sus Owen a bit, but don't want to vote for him given that he is already at L-2. JoeBob is town, and I still townread Barney and Whiteflame. Will give more detailed reads either later tonight or tomorrow morning.
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@Owen_T
Owen, you're at L-2 now, which means that you're only two votes away from being lynched. L-2 is very important to pay attention to, because assuming that no scum are currently on the wagon and you are town, the scum team could decide to quickhammer you. I get that you're still relatively new to this game and I will grant you a little bit of leniency because of it, but only a little. If you weren't a new player, I'd be scumreading you VERY hard right now. You don't have to be the most active player ever, giving very deep reads into the situation with every post. Nobody would expect that of a newbie like you. What we do expect, however, is some baseline level of participation, and right now you are not meeting that expectation. If you don't give your full claim soon, you will likely be lynched. I'm just trying to warn you.
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Sorry for chiming in a bit late here, I ended up going to bed early last night. For what it's worth, I agree that JoeBob is very likely town. I tried to think of a possible scum play that would involve one member of the scum team swapping their own role with that of a townie they then killed, and I just can't see why they would do that. The role swapper being a time traveler makes sense to me thematically, though it strikes me that none of the players who have claimed a time travel character have actually claimed their character yet. That said, I'm not sure we should actually be pushing any of them for a character claim, as I don't really scumread any of them. One member of the scum team fakeclaiming a rant is definitely a possibility. By now, everyone who claimed a rant has actually said what that rant is, except for Pie. I would be interested in learning what that rant is today.
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@JoeBob
My role and character from DP1, is what it says lunatics is.
You're saying that you and Luna got swapped? Did you silence anyone last night? That would make you confirmable.
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@whiteflame
I understand that there's a difference between reaching LYLO and MYLO, but the difference between the two scenarios Barney describes is actually in what he omits from the first one: that we would likely VTNL at 4v2 (MYLO) and bring it to LYLO anyway unless we had good reason to lynch at that point. So there could well be a VTNL regardless of whether we do it during this DP or a later one.
Fair enough. Given that I don't have any particularly strong scum reads on anyone yet, and the DP is going to come to an end today,
VTNL
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@Barney
- 3v2 <-MYLO
3v2 is LYLO, not MYLO. I understand where you are coming from, but getting to LYLO is always very bad for the town, especially a 3v2 LYLO. It leaves absolutely no room for error.
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@ILikePie5
Lunatic has claimed Dennis Green's rant about the Bears.
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@Savant
I town read Owen right now, since they are putting more effort into posting than I would expect as scum.
How so? He still hasn't said much of substance, and only gave any reads when specifically pushed to by Pie. His claim is also questionable in my eyes. The Dean scream is definitely iconic, but not what I would call a rant.
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@whiteflame
No, I was just claiming my character. Suffice it to say I'd rather not reveal my full role yet if I don't have to.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
@AustinL0926
I was referencing Bill O'Reilly's famous "We'll do it live!" rant. That's my character claim. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXZj4Wy58Pk&pp=ygUcYmlsbCBvcmVpbGx5IGxldHMgZG8gaXQgbGl2ZQ%3D%3D
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@Barney
I had glanced at your forum activity, and did not look past the wall of Kamila Is Not A US Citizen posts, which as you can imagine pulled my attention.
Yeah, I don't generally spend a whole lot of time on the forum aside from playing mafia, but when I saw that thread I just felt compelled to say something. I'll admit that I was actually pretty lazy in the first game I played on here, but since then I've strived to be active.
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Alright, I realize that maybe I haven't been the most active poster here, but I'm not the most active in general. Owen has barely said anything, but oh no, let's all focus on Casey here! "Only two posts" my ass. I've actually made several posts in this very thread, and I'd say I've been engaging with this game, but okay then. Fine. FINE. Can't even blink without everyone pointing a finger at me. I didn't want to have to claim this early, but okay then. You put me at L-2? Then I'll claim now.
FUCK IT, I'LL CLAIM IT NOW. FUCK IT! I'LL DO IT, AND I'LL CLAIM IT NOW! THIS FUCKING GAME SUCKS!
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@ILikePie5
Honestly, I've been townreading Whiteflame so far. As such, I'm not much interested in getting his claim right now. I'd rather get a claim from Owen or JoeBob, actually. Owen hasn't really contributed anything of substance to this thread yet. I realize that seems to be par for the course for him given his behavior in the other two games he's participated in so far, but I'd still like to see some actual activity from him. JoeBob as well.
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Barney is the bagel guy rant/hated, eh? I can see that. We got dangerously close to actually lynching him by mistake there.
I'm good with Barney's claim. I feel good about Whiteflame as well. The way he's been interacting in this thread feels pretty towny to me, particularly the way he started by mentioning his role PM and how it was broken up. I feel like someone who was genuinely scum probably wouldn't do something like that.
I'm a little unhappy with JoeBob's claim about how he said he "wins with the town" when he didn't. Also not crazy about how Savant pointed out that Pie was potentially a Lie Detector. Granted he was obviously doing some sort of gambit, but speculating about another person's role is generally anti-town. Slight scum lean on those two. I'm null on pretty much everyone else for now.
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@Amber
Harris’ parents were NOT “lawful permanent residents of the United States."
Irrelevant. The Supreme Court case did not specify that to gain birthright citizenship, the parents had to be permanent residents of the united states. NO exception for children of non-permanent residents has ever been carved out. This is not even a source of legal controversy.
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@Barney
Damn, nice detective work!
It was literally just a matter of using Ctrl + F. It took me, like, a couple minutes. I just wanted to see if it was a genuine slip or if you always phrased it that way.
That's pretty true but it's certainly enough for a claim. We used to use this tool a lot back in the day actually. I forget how often it was accurate but it must have at least sometimes worked if we kept doing it.
Is it really enough though? Like I said, Barney apparently always uses that particular phrasing, so I don't know that it really means anything here.
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@Amber
Allow me to ask you one question. Feel free to answer it in the morning when you are awake. Has United States v. Wong Kim Ark been overturned?
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@Amber
The details are easily verifiable. I’ve looked already and nothing this person wrote of is wrong. Nothing.
You have literally already been proven wrong in this very thread. The Supreme Court case United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) already settled this issue.
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@Lunatic
You are right he is basically confirmed scum now.
Are you kidding? No way does that "confirm" him as scum. Looking at his post history, it looks like he always phrases it that way. He also said that he wins "with town" last game. Granted he was scum in that game, but look at this post from Clash of Clans Mafia, where he was town:
Everyone is supposed to pretend to win with town
The wording of Barney's post means nothing. Let's put down our pitchforks.
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Alright everyone has had the chance to post at least once, can we lynch Barney now?
Why Barney?
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@Greyparrot
@Amber
Oh wait, I forgot to tag you both at all the second time. NOW you've been double pinged!
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Sorry for the double ping btw, I accidentally published my comment while I was still in the middle of writing it.
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Let me break this down for you.
The legislative history is clear, jurisdiction means political Allegiance.
You do realize that just because some post on Facebook says something, doesn't mean it's true, right? I need to know that you understand that.
Let's look at how Merriam-Webster defines jurisdiction:
- the power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law
- the authority of a sovereign power to govern or legislate; the power or right to exercise authority
- the limits or territory within which authority may be exercised
Literally nothing about political allegiance. It's almost like the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction [of the United States]" means subject to its laws like I said it means! Remember, Merriam-Webster is the foremost dictionary of American English, and the Constitution is the document that outlines the entire structure of the United States and serves as the basis of its legal system. If 'subject to [its] jurisdiction' could mean 'allegiant to the government of the United States', the dictionary would say so. And yet, it doesn't.
The concept of jurisdiction is especially important in US law, too, due to its use of federalism and separation of powers. Just have a glance at the Wikipedia article on the subject. Legal language is known for being very conservative. The idea that the writers of the 14th amendment would suddenly make up a new definition for 'jurisdiction' and have it apply there is simply ludicrous. Jurisdiction has always referred to the power of an authority to make and enforce laws. It has never meant the authority to which one owes their political allegiance.
If my husband and I visit France as either tourists with passports or for work on VISAs, we are subject to their laws as they are a sovereign nation.
Yes, that's exactly correct, because you are subject to the jurisdiction of the nation of France! You've got it!
But if I pop out a kid they’re not a France citizen no more than if the reverse happened here in the US.
...Aaaaaaaand you've lost it. France and the US are two entirely different nations with different legal systems. France is a civil law country; the US is a common law country. The law works differently in different countries, because different countries are allowed to do different things. I need to know that you understand that.
France doesn't recognize birthright citizenship at all (at least not as far as I'm aware); the United States does. Virtually every single person ever born in the US, past or present, is/was subject to its jurisdiction. The ONLY exceptions are those born to foreign diplomats being hosted by the US, as they automatically have diplomatic immunity, meaning that they cannot be prosecuted by the American legal system. Kamala Harris was born on US soil and was not born to any diplomats; therefore, she is a citizen by birth. Case closed.
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@Savant
I assume you're lie detector or something?
Pie is a good player. If he really was a lie detector, I feel like he would be a lot less obvious about it.
Anyway, I win with the town.
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@Amber
Okay, I have a lot to say, but I'm at work right now and also participating in a game of mafia. I'll break down how laughably incorrect you are either later tonight or tomorrow. For now though, no, jurisdiction does not mean political allegiance, it means you are subject to the laws of a certain jurisdiction. People who enter the US illegally are still bound by its laws. Diplomats and their immediate family members are not.
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Oh joy, they're doing Birtherism for Harris now.
The "subject to its jurisdiction" clause of the 14th amendment was specifically carved out for the children of foreign diplomats. It's standard internationally for diplomats and their families to not be citizens of the country in which they are residing on a diplomatic mission. The exception does not apply to Harris, no matter how much you want it to.
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