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@whiteflame
The suggestion of scum having a 2X RB (I'm guessing meaning that they can target two people, and not just that they have a person with 2 RB shots)
To be clear: yes, that is what I meant.
I'm only on a brief break for now. In the meantime, I think we should vote to no lynch for obvious reasons, but also because Barney and Mharman could use their roles NP2. I seriously doubt that the scum multi-player roleblock could be used twice, especially not on consecutive nights. DD could possibly even use his role, whatever it is. The town gets info and doesn't risk throwing the whole game away. I think it's the most sensible move here.
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Anyway, my shift is about to start. I stand by my position that the best course of action is to VTNL today. I'll talk here when I am able to.
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@Barney
Scum claiming stuff last is for when they fear being counter claimed, but in your theory they’d want to maximize the camaraderie.
Arguably, yes, but there's still the fact that you didn't claim DP1 and only claimed this DP after several roles had already been claimed/revealed.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Like I said, I doubt that Luna would have included a total roleblocker in this game,Why do you keep saying this?
Put simply, because Luna is a very experienced player and I think he would design a better game than that. Yes, there was a game in recent memory with such a role, but it also had balance problems.
Even if I'm wrong about that though and there is a total roleblocker in this game, I know everyone can't be telling the truth because of my PoE. I'm town, I believe Wylted is town, and everyone else claims to have been roleblocked. No one claims to have any roleblocking abilities, so someone has to be lying, unless you think that the scum team is Wylted and me.
I think the most likely scenario is that the scum had something like a 2x roleblock and used it on whoever the townies are among my PoE pool. Personally, I sus Whiteflame and Barney most, mostly for the same reasons I sussed them yesterday. There's also the fact that Barney claimed last, which is convenient for scum. DD is also a possibility, especially since he seems pretty eager to go along with the lynch against me on a MYLO day.
Actually, come to think of it, DD is the only one who hasn't claimed yet, isn't he? DD, would you mind giving us your role? Everyone else has claimed.
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Anyway, I would actually like to stay up until later, but I have a 12-hour shift tomorrow and need to get some sleep while I still can. For now I would just like to point out again that we are still at MYLO. If Wylted is correct, the town gets a leg up. If Wylted is wrong, the town most likely loses the entire game. We have precious little new information at this phase in the game, and he's still pushing for a lynch. I'm not scum-reading him; I still believe that his willingness to immediately hammer Pie town-confirms Wylted, but he's acting recklessly here. If you ask me, the only sensible move here is to No-Lynch.
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@WyIted
Here it is. I guess the logic is that if her lynch benefits town it would be a stupid claim so she tried to WIFOM people out of lynching by that logic
The plan had been for Pie to bus me the entire time. I knew I was going to die from the beginning of that DP. I didn't expect to not be lynched. I was just trying to act in-character up until the point where Pie revealed his "evidence" that proved I was scum.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Yeah if she used the same claim as scum before that's a big enough red flag for me. I want to use the DP to sus out the partner if possible.
I haven't claimed or been the Restless Spirit before. The only other game I was scum in was the last mafia game, UPick, where I claimed to be the Virgin, which is a role that prevents anyone from dying during the following NP if lynched.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Even that logic assumes that having a living spirit who is still able to cast votes prevents the mafia from winning, which we don't actually know for a fact. Regardless, we are still at MYLO right now. By this point we've learned everyone's role claims, and everyone with an active ability aside from Wylted has claimed to have been roleblocked. Like I said, I doubt that Luna would have included a total roleblocker in this game, and if I'm right about that, it means that somebody has to be lying.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I assume one of the scum roles is "server maintenance", I remember that happening at the most inconvenient times when I played CoC.
There was a game on here where there was a "1x Total Roleblocker" role (it was actually the first game of mafia I played on DART). I kind of don't think Luna would include something quite that powerful in this game, though.
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@WyIted
You guys do realize that Casey essentially CCed pie who is obviously town
How? Pie and I have different roles. Pie's role allowed him to potentially cheat death, mine just allows me to be an asset to the town for a brief period after my death.
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I did not even get to select a target because I was roleblocked.
WTAF? No way four players got RB'ed last night.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Whiteflame is 1x Cop according to post #72 in this thread
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@WyIted
I'd be fine with that, but if what Whiteflame is saying is true, then the town still loses after I am lynched unless the NK gets blocked. Because If I die, then there are only three townies remaining to two scum. I can ask Luna to make sure, but I think we might still at MYLO regardless of my role.
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@WyIted
can you talk in the following dp or just vote?
No, I can't talk, I can only vote, and I can only vote twice in total.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Fair enough. I'm the Witch, who which can summon skeletons that can stick around and continue attacking even after the Witch dies. If I die, I can still cast a vote on the following DP.
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By the way, does Luna usually tell players when they've been roleblocked? Because otherwise, this is a very odd statement from Mharman:
Before I even submitted any action, I was told I was told I was roleblocked.
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@WyIted
Can you at least clearly explain why you think I am scum in this game? "It's obvious if you look at every game they've every played in" is not really much of an argument.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I got role locked, which scum confirms WF as far as I am concerned.
Hold on, now three players are claiming to have been role blocked? What the hell?
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@Mharman
Interesting. Who did you try to give an ability to during the night?
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@Mharman
I’m an easy target at this point with how badly I fucked up last DP.
Well, it wasn't just you in the end. Savant was also going hard against Pie, and DD and I also voted for him. That being said, I would like to know what your role is.
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@Mharman
Okay, two roleblocks is indeed odd. I would be curious to know what your role is, Mharman.
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@Mharman
Wylted only hammered Pie after finding out he was (or rather, claimed to be) the Super Saint, which, as I understand it, kills whoever delivers the hammering vote. Wylted is saying he must be town because there's basically no reason a mafia would have done that DP1, as it would force their scum partner to solo the entire rest of the game. I buy that argument tbh, though I still find it a bit odd that Wylted didn't neighborize anyone. I guess I kind of understand his reasoning, though it's not what I would have done.
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@WyIted
Why tho? I believe you when you say that hammering Pie basically town confirmed you, but I don't see what benefit there is to waiting to use your ability.
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@whiteflame
@WyIted
So, we ended up at MYLO after all. We also lost a really good role in Savant. This isn't great.
Whiteflame, who did you investigate during the night? Wylted, who did you neighborize?
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@ILikePie5
I want Mharman to hammer me if he’s so confident that I’m scum.
Mharman already voted for you.
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Alright, here's my thoughts on the matter. Mharman proposes that we lynch today instead of opting out, because if Pie really is scum, then we don't have to VTNL tomorrow, and even if we mislynch, the NK could potentially be stopped and we still don't have to No-Lynch. However, even if neither of those scenarios happen, and Pie is a mislynch, then either we VTNL this DP or the next DP, and Mharman and Savant agree that we have more information going into DP2 if we VTL today than if we refrain. Pie disagrees strongly and wants us to VTNL.
Here's my thing. Obviously, if he was scum, he wouldn't want to be lynched, but would he want the same thing as town? My first instinct is yes, as I myself lean towards NL today. Which leads me to ask, why do Savant and Mharman sus Pie? Well, originally it was due to him somewhat uncharacteristically suggesting a VTNL and also going after the claimed Cop. Okay, maybe a bit sus, but I don't know if that means anything. Mharman finds a supposed scum slip in Pie saying the game could possibly end tonight, which Lunatic never clearly said. Strange, but not inexplicable. This is the point, however, where Pie claims the game is being 'derailed' despite not yet having his vote on Whiteflame. Then the modkill and Pie moves to VTNL, claiming that his move is due to 420 being ousted. Maybe, but I notice that it was also right around the point that the mood was shifting in favor of voting Pie.
Maybe I'm reading too deep into this, but looking back over the pages of this DP, I'm suddenly not so sure the sus on Pie is all that unreasonable. I feel a bit conflicted. On the one hand, I don't like the idea of going into MYLO tomorrow, but on the other, we can always just VTNL if it does come to that and use whatever new information we gain to eliminate scum. There's precious little time left in this DP, and I think the advantage of lynching today just barely edges out the disadvantages.
VTL Pie
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@Savant
Alright, I'm following the conversation here. Please, I don't need to be constantly pinged. I'll post my thoughts in a bit.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
So new math is 6-2. We mislynch now and scum NK succeeds it’s instantly MYLO, vs us No Lynching today and and scum NK succeeding puts us at 5-2, where there’s at least a little more POE, and we can lynch with more information (relating to Savant and WF)
Yup, that's... what I said.
If an extension is wanted I can grant one if three or more people want it
I'm going to vote yes on the extension as well. I think the town deserves it for 420 screwing us over a bit
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Alright, then. The way I see it, there are only three reasonable options here:
- No Lynch
- Lynch Whiteflame
- Lynch Pie
The advantage to NLing is that we avoid going into MYLO tomorrow. Whiteflame is a bit sus, but I really don't like the idea of lynching a claimed Cop DP1. If we're wrong, we lose an investigative role before even getting a single result and we go into MYLO at the earliest possible opportunity. That's just too risky in my book. I'd rather No Lynch at this point, but if I were to lynch someone, I'd much rather vote for Pie. Personally, I sus Savant the most, but he claims to have a confirmable role and I don't think the town is going to suddenly rally behind voting him out. I'm going to try and quickly re-read the DP before coming to my final decision.
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@WyIted
What did he claim anyway, I forget?
Something confirmable. I don't think he gave anything specific, unless he did and I just forgot.
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@Lunatic
@Mharman
Maybe not, but it's still a risky move.
Lunatic, can we get a vote tally?
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Okay, so 420 really threw a wrench in the works here. He's about to get modkilled, which will leave us with 6 town and 2 mafia. If we mislynch somebody today, that puts us at MYLO tomorrow, which is nuts. The consensus here seems to be that if we are going to lynch somebody, we lynch either Whiteflame or Pie. I'm not crazy about either of those tbh. I don't like the idea of killing WF due to him claiming cop (I realize that Wylted's role sheds some doubt on his claim, but it's still not a direct cc), and I'm not entirely convinced by the Pie train either. I really don't like the idea of being at MYLO DP2, which makes me think that maybe we should just No Lynch today.
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Alright, I went to see some live music last night and have several notifications and a bunch of pages to catch up on. Give me a moment here to get caught up.
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@ILikePie5
I think it may be of use for everyone to state what type of thing they are—like a Building, Troop, Resource, Boost, etc to lock scum into categories for their fake claims.
I'm fine with claiming that. I'm a Troop.
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I'm going to give my reads on the situation here.
Wylted - I'm never sure how to read Wylted, especially during DP1. That being said, he has apparently claimed Neighborizer, a confirmable role, and did so very early, so I highly doubt he's lying about it. I don't think Wylted would be the type to claim such a role and then say "Oh noes, I was roleblocked!" Can't see it.
Whiteflame - This is the one I'm most conflicted on. On the one hand, he's an un-cc'ed Cop with an early claim, which is a good sign. On the other hand, both Pie and DD found his explanation of his role based on his character to be a bit sus. Right now, it feels like I'm viewing an argument about whether Dart Monkeys in Bloons Tower Defense having an upgrade that lets them see camo means they have camo vision, except I've never played BTD before in my life and don't know what a dart monkey is. Maybe Whiteflame just genuinely misunderstood his role PM, or maybe he's fakeclaiming. Either way, it's not a good look. For now, I'll say I'm slightly sus of him.
Pie - I'm not really sure how to tell apart scum Pie from town Pie. He's a very active player either way. Nothing he has done so far gives me obvious scum vibes. I'll put him in null for the time being.
Savant - Savant always comes off as slightly scummy to me for whatever reason, but particularly here. I just don't really follow his logic for scumreading Pie, and I don't get why he's so confident and assertive about his scumreads this early in the game. In terms of Savant's vibes, I simply do not like them.
DD - This is my first game with him so far, so I can't do any meta-reads. I'm still not crazy about early conspiracy theories, but he has been giving reads and trying to get players to be active. Slight town read.
Mharman - A few large reads posts and not much else. I can buy that he's been busy with other stuff. It's the Fourth of July weekend after all. Null read.
420 - He could be just playing dumb at the advice of his scum buddy, but if that was the case, I honestly feel like his partner would be telling him to be a bit more active. 420 has just been doing so little that I feel like his townslip at the beginning was more than likely genuine. My strongest townread at this point.
Barney - He hasn't really said that much yet. Barney tends to make fluff posts and such, but even so, I'm not impressed with the lack of substance in what he's written so far. Null, very slightly leaning towards scum.
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@Savant
Earlier everyone was calling me completely insane for my reads. Now we're agreeing that whiteflame is town and 420 is not an automatically safe town read. Maybe it's time to consider my other read that everyone ignored—that is, Pie being scum.
I mean, clearly we aren't all in agreement that Whiteflame is town, given that Pie is sus of him. Since I know basically nothing about CoC, I have absolutely no idea what to make of his description of his role, though I will say that Cop is a pretty ballsy claim to make right out the gate, since a claim like that is ripe for being counter-claimed. Maybe Pie has some more information that would give us good reason to sus him of fake claiming, but for now I lean town on Whiteflame.
As for Pie, he could be scum, but so could anyone else at this point. I have a null read on most players right now. Why, specifically, do you believe Pie is scum? I'd like to hear your whole argument.
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@WyIted
Savant is 62% to be scum and whiteflames odds of being scum are around 40%
How do you figure that?
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@WyIted
I'm not going to get into this with you right now. All I'll say is that I really don't think there's anything compelling here. If some stronger evidence comes out later that suggests Savant and Whiteflame are scum, then I'll reconsider, but for now, they're both null reads for me.
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@WyIted
That scum slip is about 90% accurate and if you ignore a similar one in the future just because sometimes the 10% is true, you are doing yourself a disservice
Gonna be honest here Wylted, you were going off basically nothing in UPick, and I think it's crazy that you got the whole town to go along with you in voting out JoeBob. Like I said, I only went along with it because I was scum. Based on Whiteflame's response to DD, I don't really think there's anything here either.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
The current conspiracy theory is that Savant noticed my VTL on his scum buddy then notified Whiteflame of it via... I think Discord was the standard last time I was here... so that he could respond.
I'll be honest, I don't really make much of this conspiracy theory. Last game, Wylted came up with a theory that JoeBob and Moozer (they're not in this game but have played in the previous few) were the two scum based on a perceived scum slip, despite JoeBob having a confirmed protective role and Moozer essentially being the DP3 innocent child (Wylted pushed the theory on DP2). I didn't really say anything and just went along with it because I was scum, but if I was town, there's no way I would have just let it slide.
My point here being, behavioral tells can be worthwhile, but there's a difference between reading someone's behavior and looking too deep into every little thing and trying to make connections that aren't there. Plus, I'm willing to buy Whiteflame's explanation tbh.
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@ILikePie5
So this post rings alarm bells for me. If you guys read the previous game, Casey for most of the game was just reiterating what I would say. Here he is sort of reiterating what Savant said earlier.
Respectfully, I think it's clear that I added on to what Savant said as opposed to just restating it. Also, Savant seems to be null-reading 420/Underdog at best, while I still think he's most likely town. I just am not yet willing to dismiss the idea that he could be scum. For now though, I townread him. Actually, right now he's the only one that I townread. Everyone else is null for me.
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420-1776 just gave a blatant town slip.So blatant that it could easily be a scum strategy.
I don't know much about Underdog or if he's ever played Mafia before (I'm assuming he hasn't) but I will say that one time I was playing a game of The Resistance (social deduction board game) with my grandma. It was her first time playing the game and she kind of played dumb the whole time and acted like she didn't quite get it. She ended up being one of the spies and totally pulled the wool over all our eyes.
That being said, I think Underdog is still more likely to be town than scum, but it's something to keep in mind.
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@WyIted
So 420 claims to be underdog here
Good catch. I just sort of skimmed through that 'debate' and didn't really think anything of the fact that Underdog had decided to be a judge for whatever reason.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
The people saying 420 should claim just because they are new are retarded so I'll go back and note who did that, I remember seeing at least one.
I'm fine with not getting a claim from them yet, but I would like them to answer Pie's other questions about how familiar they are with mafia.
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@whiteflame
Glad you had a great vacation! I've never been on a cruise before, but some of my family has, and they all enjoyed it.
That being said, I don't know why we're jumping to the conclusion that there isn't a theme split. Don't see anything about that in the OP.
From the signup page:
This is probably the closest game to a "role madness" game I think I've made in a while. I just was having some fun with the set up here. There is no theme split.
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Wylted is being Wylted as usual, I see.
I have to admit, I don't know much about Clash of Clans. And by don't mean much, I mean I know basically nothing whatsoever. Should we get everyone to reveal their characters? Granted there's no theme split, but it still might be useful to lock the scum into early character claims.
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Sorry, the current mafia is Lunatic's Clash of Clans Mafia. Austin's Player's Choice Mafia was the previous one. Got that mixed up, whoops. Minor mistake.
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Current Mafia:
Austin - Player's choice mafia
Signups:
None
In the Hopper:
Casey_Risk - Ace Attorney Mafia
On Hold:
Mharman - Gunplay Mafia
RationalMadman - 8 player game, unknown theme
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Woohoo, my first win as scum, and my first win where I actually feel like I contributed to the victory! I made a blunder when I voted for the shirt and ended up letting Wylted get it, but it all worked out in the end.
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