Total posts: 2,155
Posted in:
I'd be interested in debating the topic "The Christian doctrine of Atonement is ethically tenable" with you if you'd be interested in that. (I'd be Con of course)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Vader thought moozer was gonna target him, so he deflected it to you.
Ah. I think Earth might have mixed up Redirector and Deflector. That would explain it though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Btw, what was the point of deflecting Moozer onto me NP1?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Although I am proud of thinking of that fake claim on my own, as it almost brought me to the win
That was honestly a pretty good fake claim. For most of the game, I figured you were probably town due to your relatively early claim and the fact that you've had some pretty bad fake claims in the recent past (the 'suspect fruit vendor' stands out, but claiming Jock in Middle School Mafia also brought a lot of suspicion on you).
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
yes I was baiting the night kill, I knew town would lose their minds about three vanillas.
Personally, I would have found three vanillas to be completely believable. I understand why you did what you did, I just personally would not have gone down that route.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
@JoeBob
I have to know -- at what point did you figure out the theme split?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Yeah, like Earth said, I think you actually did pretty well there. I myself didn't seriously suspect you for long until DP4.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
True, but now neither of us can be confirmed. I tried to get confirmed using the vig kill on Owen, but it was RB, by you.
Claiming to have a 1x confirmable role and then claiming to be RBed is the oldest and cheapest trick in the book. If you really wanted to confirm yourself, you would have done it NP1.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
We have no way on confirming you to begin with at this moment.
Yes, but I never claimed to have a confirmable role. You did. That's the difference.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
Well, Moozer, you're the kingmaker here. I'd like to convince you of my innocence. Like I said, my explanation of my role lines up very well with Owen's: we both had claims that revolved around important Roman emperors: Octavian was the first, and Trajan saw Rome at its largest. Both of our PMs said 'Despite this, you are the Vanilla'. I was first to full claim, long before Owen full claimed. Also, I was pushing against Vader through DP2. If I was scum, I was making an incredibly risky move trying to bus my own partner at a relatively early stage in the game.
As for JoeBob, well, he never confirmed his role. That alone should be worthy of suspicion.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
what was the justification for this? I can’t seem to find it
DP1, post #55
I don't really have one. My PM basically just said 'Despite what happened and who was born, you are merely a Vanilla.'
Mind you, this lines up very well with Owen's flip.
Created:
Posted in:
Well, Moozer is online right now and JoeBob is still alive. If Moozer was scum, he would have gone for the insta-win. That's how I know I made the right choice.
Created:
Posted in:
since it doesn't kill the killer.
By this I mean, since Whiteflame's role doesn't kill the killer.
Created:
Posted in:
Actually, I just realized #13 doesn't actually make sense since it doesn't kill the killer. I was just thinking out loud there. I stand by #4 however.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
Well Earth did actually ban Chat GPT this game, but this should be okay. It starts with a sentence saying what happened in my year. Then there is a sentence that starts by elaborating on what happened that year, and then it goes on to say that because of what happened in that year, I can do a specific thing. Then there is a sentence clarifying a thing about the role, and one saying my alignment.
Well, yes, that's why I said without using ChatGPT. Anyway, that's pretty barebones, but honestly, the more I think about it, the harder it becomes for me to believe you are mafia in this game. If you are, then well-played, you deserve the win. If you aren't, though, I'd like your thoughts on what I said in posts #4 and #13 in this thread.
VTL JoeBob
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
I even had to re-read it when writing that original post, but yeah, there’s no name for it.
Hmm. Is there a way you could maybe paraphrase it, in your own words, without using ChatGPT or another AI?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
Yeah, but I also had a smoking gun that proved his innocence. That at least deserves a minute to stop and think.
Alright, that's true. At that point, however, you and JoeBob were still my top townreads, and I knew it was super unlikely that Luna would claim what he did if he was scum since it would just turn around to bite him and get him lynched DP4, losing him the game. I guess I should have thought about it a bit more, and I apologize for that.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
I’m stuck on phone always so my typing is a bit slow
Fair enough, I'm a fast typist on a keyboard, but on mobile I am painfully slow
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
Thinking about DP3, I don't think scum Moozer would have tried to clear Owen when he was clearly one of the top suspects. Really, the ONLY thing that makes me think that Moozer could maybe possibly be scum at this point is the fact that he claims is role was never actually given a name, which is fundamentally odd to me. Moozer, can you re-read your PM for me?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
I am pretty pissed at Luna for that annoying play though. I see no good reason for lying other than just trolling us. We could definitely have won last round but that tripped us up.
Yeah, I get that. Like I said, I think he was just trying to bait the NK. When he didn't get killed, he just tried to incriminate his top scumread.
Frankly, I think my reasons for voting every lynch target have been pretty clear.
- DP1 - I voted for Wylted because he was deadweight and the only person who realistically could have gotten enough votes in time before the deadline.
- DP2 - I had already been sussing Vader, then Whiteflame outright CC'ed him
- DP3 - I had already been sussing Owen, then Luna claimed to have a smoking gun.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
True, but this is Earth, and I didn’t see a single game he made where there is 3 vanillas. Austin also helped make this, and he doesn’t use this many vanillas either.
I just skimmed his page, but from what I see Earth has only done two mafia games on this site. Three vanillas is also really not that crazy.
Created:
Posted in:
Also, remember how we were talking about how Vader's claim (Elite Bodyguard) and JoeBob's claim (Vigilante) didn't likely coexist in this game? Well, we know for a fact that Whiteflame was actually the Bodyguard.
Created:
Posted in:
Here's another point: I find it tough to believe that the only investigative role that Earth included in this game was a Motion Detector. While it is useful to an extent, MD is pretty weak. I'd say it's probably the weakest investigative role that I know of.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
I find it odd that there is 2 vanillas, yet you also claim vanilla. That seems one to many.
I disagree entirely. I know that Mharman has made several game with three Vanillas. Just look at this one:
Created:
Posted in:
It would also explain why the NP was so incredibly quick. Luna was actually just a Vanilla, and Moozer's ability was a 1x, so Earth only had to wait for JoeBob and Vader to decide on what to do.
Created:
Posted in:
I'm thinking that JoeBob is scum. He claimed a confirmable role, but never confirmed it.
Created:
Posted in:
Actually, maybe he was just trying to bait the NK. That would make sense to me. I actually considered doing the same thing DP1, but I couldn't think of anything good. Plus, no one else had full claimed, so it was too risky. I was just liable to get myself lynched.
But, I would like to say that again: No one else had full claimed when I did. And yet, my claim and justification line up very well with Owen's. Both of our years were the birth years of important Roman rulers. If I am scum, I got stupidly lucky with my claim. On the other hand, if I am town, that means that there are three vanillas in this game, which is a very believable number of vanillas.
Created:
Posted in:
I don't know why Luna lied about being a Watcher, unless he got Death Tailored. Anyway, we are at LYLO, so DO NOT VOTE YET.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Owen_T
Seriously wasn't I just confirmed?
No, reports from investigative roles can be wrong. You're already dead anyway, town wins.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Owen_T
I didn't visit you, I think scum has a misinformation role
Like what? I know of Redirectors and Deflectors, but those only work if someone actually uses a night action in the first place. You can't redirect or deflect a vanilla. How did they make it seem like you visited Moozer? Plus, we know that JoeBob was blocked last night. From Vader's flip, it seems to me like scum probably were able to use one role each per night. If I blocked JoeBob, I couldn't have also framed you. Literally the only way I can be scum is if there are two scum remaining, and I don't think Earth would have included three scum in a nine-player game.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
I targeted Luna and Owen, they have the same alignment, so that makes me totally sus Casey.
I understand where you're coming from, but think about it for a second. In my game, I included a Lawyer on the mafia team (as part of a JOAT). Any experienced mod who includes a Cop or a Cop-like role will include at least some way for it to be blocked and/or give an incorrect result. Owen STILL claims that he is actually vanilla. If I am scum, then that means that Luna is also lying about his Watcher report, because there's no way Owen could have visited you last night if he was really just a vanilla. It's Owen.
VTL Owen
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Hope you feel better though
Thanks. It's not too bad for me, all things considered. This is like the third time I've gotten Covid. I suspected I had it earlier this week, but I kept on testing negative.
Created:
Posted in:
Also, on an unrelated matter, guess who just tested positive for Covid today? 🙃
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
@Moozer325
I didIt failed
Alright, I guess it figures that the mafia would have some sort of roleblocker. For now, Moozer, who did you investigate, and what results did you get?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Alright then. Looks like Whiteflame chose his target well. Either that, or he was intentionally directly targeted for having towncred after getting Vader lynched.
Here's my question. JoeBob, why did you not use your vig shot last night?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Oh, sorry. I wasn't really thinking about that. My bad.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Earth
Watcher and a Motion Detector? Interesting. I know that in Luna's Recycled Roles V2 there was both a Tracker and a Motion Detector, but in this game we also have an Affiliation Checker. That does make me wonder a bit.
In any case, Vader is scum, so let's boot him. VTL Vader
Earth, that should be a hammer.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
it’s possible, but yea I do agree it’s weird that their is two vanillas. I’m more inclined to believe your town than him since you claimed first.
For me, it's not so much the fact that Owen also claimed Vanilla as the fact that his justification is basically the same as mine, only with a different ruler.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Isn’t Casey also vanilla? Or am I thinking of a different game
Yes, I am Vanilla. Feels like Owen is piggybacking off my claim tbh.
Created:
Posted in:
Also, just putting this out there, I think Owen is the most likely partner.
Unvote just so that Vader doesn't get quick lynched before Luna claims (just realized I put him at L-1)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
I was prepared to write a whole long effortpost when I got home about why Vader is likely scum, but honestly this pretty much confirms it for me. I don't think Whiteflame would make that role claim in these circumstances just to bus his partner DP2.
VTL Vader
Created:
Posted in:
I only voted for Wylted at all when it became clear that he was the only realistic lynch option.
Actually, I misremembered. I did vote for him earlier and tagged him because he hadn't said anything yet and I didn't want him to skip DP1 like he did in my game. That was just an activity vote, though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
For a lynch or to pressure for a claim?
I only voted for Wylted at all when it became clear that he was the only realistic lynch option.
He only sus'd based on a claim. Why are you hard buddying Pie? He could be equally as wrong as he could be wrong
Yeah, he could be wrong, but nothing is ever certain in this game. The point is, Pie was town, which means his read on you was genuine, and frankly I agreed with his reasoning. Also, you're pivoting from 'you only were on my wagon because Whiteflame was, that's sus' to 'actually, you're budding Pie'. Have you considered that I might just genuinely agree with other players? Honestly, I feel like you're just pressing me because you're scum and know that I'm the most suspected player other than you, so it only makes sense for you to push me for a lynch. It's what I would do.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
People are suspicious of pushing inactives because if you are scum, it's essentially a free mislynch because you can always just make the argument of "well he's inactive."
Point taken, but you're overlooking the fact that I only really started pushing Wylted late in the DP when it became clear that it was either him or no one. I wasn't eager to lynch him specifically as much as I was trying to just get a lynch in general. My first choice had actually been Luna, for reasons I already explained, but I backed off when he got on and claimed.
Your suspicion of me is technically a wagon. The vote doesn't draw me off. Whiteflame is the the driver of my suspicion and you seem to hop on that wagon using weak role analysis to back it up.
It's not just Whiteflame. Pie also sussed you, more than any other living player, and asked us to follow up on his leads. I'm respecting his wishes. Also, I agree with you that it's somewhat unlikely that both your role and JoeBob's would both exist in this game, and I think JoeBob is more likely to be town. That makes you my most suspicious player atm.
Created: