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My biggest scum read is Ragnar for aforementioned reasons. My second biggest is WaterPhoenix and my third is MisterChris.
My read on WP is due to a few things: 1) Last DP that1user looked incredibly sus from all the lies and flip flopping. WP took a strong position that she was town, but I don't think any uninformed player would have been that sure. 2) WP's entire analysis this DP is predicated on who voted for that1user. While we def have to consider the mislynch wagon, to focus solely on that is lazy and an easy way to cherry pick someone to mislynch again because we know that some of the people on that wagon - or possibly even everyone on the wagon - had to be town. 3) WP thinks Ragnar and whiteflame are scum but why not me and drafter? We also voted for that1user. If WP believes our role claims + behavior are more townie over whiteflame and Ragnars, why didn't he make a case against them until I asked him for his reads? It wasn't until I made a long post explaining why I sussed Ragnar that WP put him in his scum pile. Kinda seems like buddying me. And 4) the Redirector claim + usage is a little hard to get behind. It's a scummy role and kinda scummy that he used it.
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@drafterman
If you can't provide your reads on me because I haven't provided my reads on who, how can you expect me to provide my reads on you when you haven't provided your reads on me?
I've given reads on some people and made other observations that you can analyze. You haven't contributed anything to this game except to say "I'm not getting lynched" and refuse to claim last DP, and this DP suggest we vote No Lynch before everyone had even claimed or given their reads. Considering you were on the mislynch wagon yesterday, I think it's safe to say that 100% of your contribution to this game has been negative utility to null at best. We have no way to read you. I was curious what your thoughts are on each player to see if we can figure out a preferable lynch target via POE.
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@drafterman
@Barney
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@warren42
If we decide to NL, it should be because the majority of us don't have a strong scum read to balance the odds of a successful lynch. We still have ~23 hours left in the day phase. Every single person should post their reads. Otherwise, let's say we NL and go into next DP - we have no way of sussing out the best lynch candidate. For instance we know nothing about warren's thoughts on the game. You haven't given your reads either @drafter, so how am I supposed to have any idea how to read you? I think WaterPhoenix is the only one who gave his full reads so far. What are yours? We need to hear from warren and Ragnar as well. What about Pie and whiteflame?
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@bmdrocks21
Tee hee, I don't think the deer's family is going to sue you for killing it- which was the whole point (you bringing up tort law)
Oh lawdy lol. I was kinda liking the other discussion so I didn't wanna talk about guns too much, but this is a blatant straw man and misrepresentation of what this conversation was about. I said the purpose of guns is to kill; that's what they're designed for and if they are not able to kill then they are not functioning properly. You said no, guns aren't always used for killing - sometimes they're used to hunt! (LMAO) You are now saying that because a deer won't sue you, that somehow discredits my point about guns being used to kill them. What a completely bizarre attempt at trying to gloss over your silly mistake.
I never said that guns are ONLY for killing, but guns are designed to kill. That is their purpose. Guns that are only meant for shooting targets like pellet guns or paint ball guns or water guns are considered in a different class and category.
No, a gun manufacturer doesn't have to sell to you
Thank you for acknowledging this point. We have no right to buy a gun.
That is why I DON'T support the same treatment as a drug company.
As I said, you can disagree with holding gun manufacturers liable the way you would hold manufacturers of other products liable. There is a legitimate debate to be had about it. But there is still a precedence and legal basis for this option which was my point.
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@bmdrocks21
It's been measured and agreed universally that illegal immigrants commit less crime than natives, but nonetheless, I understand your frustration that some are responsible for the deaths of Americans. The question for me is the cost-benefit analysis of programs like ICE and the harm they cause to immigrants who are not seeking to do harm and just looking for a better life in the U.S. While I agree that immigrants absolutely need to be screened and documented, and I agree with quota/regulation programs in some capacity for immigrants, I don't agree with treating all illegal immigrants as violent criminals (i.e. putting them in a cage) or kicking out positive contributors to society. I think a lot of concessions and negotiations need to be made by both sides confronting harsh realities.
I didn't say black people blame white people for all of their problems, I referred specifically to how "academics" always frame the issue. I gave an example of the type of language used to shift all blame to a "white supremacy" or "systemically racist" boogeyman, while utterly ignoring other factors that contribute to the disparity- as if a disparity alone is somehow an indication of malice.
I'm pretty sure you did say that. Regardless what other factors are you referring to? Most acknowledge that poverty is a huge contributor to crime. We know that on balance more black people live in poverty than white people. We know that systemic racism has led to black people having more likelihood to live in poverty. Not only did the historic barriers of slavery and Jim Crow prevent them from accumulating wealth, but so did red lining and other things. We know that black Americans encounter inequalities in education and have fewer resources during their formative years. We know there is discrimination in the workplace. We know that high incarceration rates leads to ineffective parenting, and the reason for higher incarceration rates among blacks is absolutely related to racism and other systemic issues in law enforcement. I can cite statistics if you need, but my point is that it is not inaccurate or wrong to note how racism has impacted black crime. So again I'll ask "what other factors contribute to the disparity," and even if there are other factors regarding immorality or lack of personal accountability, why is it bad to educate people on the systemic issues that absolutely exist?
I'll put this in simple terms: There is a disparity. Only explanation for disparity-"systemic" racism. Who has been the country majority with "systemic" power? White people So who is therefore blamed for supposed "systemic" racism? White people/
As a reminder, you gave a statistic about 16% of STEM workers being brown. That doesn't prove anything about racism being imaginary. Now as far as this explanation ^ your point seems to be that just because there are less brown people in STEM doesn't necessarily mean that white people/systemic racism is to blame. I agree with that, but you haven't proven (and this statistic about STEM does not prove) that racism is imaginary.
Disparities in underlying health conditions blamed on- you guessed it- racism.They never actually mention data on the differences in diets between races (fast food/fried food consumption-type data).
It looks like you disproved your own point with the quotes you gave. It seems like people are absolutely recognizing that black people are unhealthier on balance and they argue that it's BECAUSE of poverty. They lack the money to eat healthy or have health insurance. I completely disagree that people aren't talking about things like unhealthy lifestyles including drug use (even though blacks don't use more drugs than white people on balance). Academics, liberals and everyone else you're railing against absolutely do note how poverty and circumstance of where people live + their experiences fuel unhealthy personal decisions. That's like... their entire point. Again I think you are just completely and totally ignorant to all of the information out there about this. You claim nobody's talking about it but that is literally all they're talking about and that's what all of their research is about.
Simply put, if you solve fatherless homes alone, you will get rid of most of the disparity on the poverty end.
Not true although it is true that two parent households are much better off. That's why people note how all of the policies that target blacks and incarcerate them at higher rates than whites despite similar or less instance of criminality (like drug use) is an example of systemic racism that hurts blacks.
Jim Crow- badTwo decades later- definitely going to still be some effects(in my opinion rather small after ~2 generations have been born), but certainly not enough to still be responsible for these large disparities.
That's not true. Most Americans' wealth is tied to home ownership which black people experienced systemic barriers to reaping the rewards of. Nonetheless there is still discrimination, lack of opportunity, lack of resources, etc. But my point here is that you are saying "muh Jim Crow" as if the notes about Jim Crow are being exaggerated or lied about when they are not. There is no need for you to say "muh Jim Crow" except to diminish the long-terms systemic harms these immoral policies created. What if someone said "muh Holocaust" or "muh 9/11?" They would sound like a piece of shit person right so put your thinking cap on and figure out what I'm saying.
I am not making a Constitutional case that they have to use state resources to apply federal immigration laws. That is irrelevant. I am blaming states that don't care to help deport illegal aliens.
You don't get to rewrite history about what you said and how I corrected your ignorance of the 10th amendment. It's right there in black and white. You lamented CA not helping ICE to deport illegal immigrants. I asked if you supported CA's state autonomy to govern itself per their own voters' wishes, and you said "No, immigration law is federal in nature" in post #34 which is wrong. Per the 10th amendment CA does not have to comply with federal immigration law. The feds are free to pursue illegal immigrants in CA but CA doesn't have to help them.
Taking in large amounts of largely uneducated workers depresses wages for domestic high-school-educated workers and prices them out of historically good job for them like construction.
I can counter this point but out of curiosity, why lean toward the auth right with this perspective? Bernie shares in this view ya know.
Probably why working class people are becoming more depressed/resorting to drugs and suicide.
I see. So working class people are becoming depressed and turning to drugs (and subsequently crime) because they're low-income, is that right? So what you're saying is that if a certain group is more likely to be low-income and experience poverty, they are more likely to make poor decisions that lead to poor circumstances. Gotcha.
Although it kinda sounds like you're crying MUH IMMIGRANTS to blame them for the working class who are suffering. Why is it systemic immigration policies that is the cause of their demise? Maybe it's their own personal irresponsibility like drug use or not pursuing higher education as the reason they're all dropping like flies and can't find good work. All the educated people in Silicon Valley and Wall Street are finding work. Maybe these people should take a look in the mirror and stop trying to blame systemic policy.
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@warren42
I don't know how I feel about warren lol. I don't scum read people for delayed presence in game, but if it's to the point of clarifying they are online and 30 mins going by where they are tagged asking for claims multiple times and they still don't post, that's a little sus.
I thought I had a good idea of who scum was assuming warren was town but now I'm confused by this delay.
WARREN, FULL CLAIM PLZ.
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@ILikePie5
I could see that. So could Vigilante/Serial Killer :)
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@whiteflame
Ahh I see. I confused Redirector with Bus Driver.
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Edit: when did townies start saying they won't claim EVEN WITH sufficient pressure
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@Barney
To be honest I'm not feeling okay lol. I'm in a lot of pain. I apologize for misreading. I noticed in post #121 you said that Supa had gotten back to you, so I thought you had asked him after drafter posted. I see now that Supa only got back to you after drafter had posted. Still though if you were concerned, why didn't you say to Supa ahead of time "If I motivate someone without a role/active role, will they be told?" I feel like this is a standard question for the mod, especially if you were concerned about it.
Last DP I said multiple times I was willing to lynch drafter for not claiming. This is the same position I took on Speed DP1 (and every other person in every other game) but nobody said anything regarding drafter yesterday iirc; I believe only whiteflame said he'd be willing to lynch him if we got a wagon going but no wagon ever got going. Nonetheless I see what you mean about drafter LIVING until this day phase. What I don't understand is why you'd town read drafter based on refusing to claim. THAT IS NOT PRO TOWN. When did townies start deciding they won't claim without pressure? What if I refused to claim upon pressure? What if warren comes on and says he won't claim? We'll just let it go if warren refuses? I have no idea why certain players get away with this, but regardless I understand your reason for thinking drafter would be alive. I just don't see why you thought he was town and would confirm you.
Regarding who else visited Speed on NP1: WaterPhoenix was at least one other person who said they did. Speed clarified he got results on whiteflame NP1.
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@whiteflame
The only one I noticed to be behaving differently, largely by being more active, was MisterChris. I figured that either meant he was mafia or he was probing to get a good target for a power role. Either way, I figured the information would be useful.
That makes sense.
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@MisterChris
Gonna give some commentary on reads soon.
When?
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@drafterman
@whiteflame
@ drafterman - The mafia tracker is typically called a Scout and the mafia watcher is called Lookout iirc (I may be confusing the two).
The only thing weird about whiteflame's claim is that he claimed to have targeted Chris NP1 and Pie NP2. We then asked Chris to verify who he visited NP1 and whiteflame confimed it (though if whiteflame is scum, he would confirm anything). For NP2 whiteflame was able to preemptively say Pie didn't visit anyone, but that was obvious because there was only one NK. I could have told ya that Pie didn't visit anyone. So whiteflame hasn't proven his role at all - he's only in my "lean town" pile per Speed's assuredness.
@ whiteflame - Why did you target Chris on NP1?
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@Barney
Who did you target each night?
On NP1 I targeted crystal (I don't remember who replaced her). I didn't want to kill a potential townie for visiting me and I figured if Crystal visited me she could only be maf, cuz she has no idea who I am and wouldn't have randomly chosen me to visit unless directed by someone to do so - especially cuz she wasn't active at all in the day phase. Also I admit I was doing a little bit of mod psych here and assumed if she wasn't scum she'd probs be vanilla, and therefore wouldn't visit me / wouldn't die. It seemed like a safe choice but nonetheless I was told my action failed.
On NP2 I chose Pie. If he visited me I wanted him to die for obvious reasons. I was told this action was "confirmed."
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Side note: Btw who is crystal's boyfriend because I thought it was that1user, but we are referring to that1user as "she" and crystal specifically said she was invited by her bf in the sign-ups. Then Corey said her sister invited her - who is her sister? I'm curious.
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@Barney
My question is why didn't you ask Supa ahead of time whether or not someone who didn't have an active role would be told they were motivated, especially if you had concerns about it? And more importantly why didn't you ask him to clarify AFTER drafter said he didn't get a message? We had to ask you about it before you followed up with Supa yourself.
You didn't answer why you thought drafterman was the biggest suspect after last DP (and if he was most suspicious which is why you said you chose him, isn't it possible he is scum?). And again I don't believe your excuse about not targeting Speed "in case he was visited" because we already know he was visited on NP1 and he said his role worked, so why wouldn't it work if you visited him on NP2? It looks like you're just making up excuses.
For the record I didn't say anything about your character being sus or having a weird description. I don't know anything about these characters.
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@Barney
He did not say either way. My understanding of the role is that the default is people are notified.And yes, I know it was risky giving Drafter an extra action without knowing his role. I selected him largely because he was the most easy mislynch based on the pressure on him yesterday, so was unlikely to be night killed.I of course could not motivate our dreamer, since they lose their dreaming if visited by anyone.
Why didn't you ask Supa if people without roles would be notified? Did you at least ask him after drafter said he didn't get a message?
Why would you risk giving scum an extra ability?
I don't understand what you mean by "the pressure on drafter yesterday" making him an easy mislynch this DP. From what I recall, it was Speed, whiteflame and you that were heavily pushing for that1user's lynch. Admittedly that1user kept digging a deeper and deeper hole for herself, but what does this have to do with drafter? I said multiple times I was willing to lynch drafter based on refusing to claim and nobody responded to me but whiteflame iirc.
Also if drafterman was least likely to be NKd therefore you needed him to confirm your role, wouldn't you first verify if the person you picked had a role or would be notified they were motivated if they didn't have an active role? Cuz right now drafterman says he can't verify you so that was a waste. And not only Speed but myself, Pie and whiteflame all claimed to have roles so it's curious that you didn't pick one of us.
Speaking of Speed, it's interesting that you allegedly assumed his role wouldn't work if he was visited. I think that's a flat out lie because #1 Speed didn't say his role worked like that (we established that his role didn't work as the standard Dreamer role does) and #2 we already knew that was wrong because Speed was targeted by multiple people on NP1 and yet was able to use his ability to dream about whiteflame. Sooo?
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@Barney
@Vader
@oromagi
@Crocodile
@Intelligence_06
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@warren42
@That1User
@MisterChris
@WaterPhoenix
@LikeMagic
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@Lunatic
@drafterman
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@Speedrace
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I had a Christmas themed game but I dunno when Supa's game is gonna end. Let's shoot for 12 players and see :)
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Fuck it, I can at least say this for now: my biggest scum read is Ragnar.
Note that everyone was asked to role claim and Ragnar did not; he just inserted his claim into the claims list in post #60 as if he was trying to bury it a little. He then asked drafterman if he got results which drafterman says he did not (I just noticed post #73). This is incredibly scummy per Ragnar's Motivator role claim. The Motivator may each night target a player, allowing them one extra use of any action available to them on the following night. Why would he target drafterman? Drafterman refused to claim so Ragnar didn't even know if drafterman had a role to begin with. Why wouldn't Ragnar target someone that he knew had a role (several of us outright claimed to have roles) and therefore could verify being motivated?
It seems extremely convenient that Ragnar claimed Motivator after drafterman claimed Beloved Princess in post #6. Ragnar knew drafter wouldn't receive a message about being motivated because drafter doesn't have an active role, so it was a safe fake claim for Ragnar that I find incredibly sus. Moreover once drafterman stated that he did not receive any messages or results last night, Ragnar said nothing. He made three more posts after that: he joked about some character being hot in post 78, posted a claims list in post 82, and posted a vote count in post 83 -- but he did not address at all the fact that drafterman denied receiving any results or motivations.
All of this coupled with last day phase where Speed, whiteflame and Ragnar were the biggest ones to push for that1user's lynch, and I town read whiteflame for aforementioned reasons. The one thing I do appreciate about Ragnar's post is that in #83 he acknowledges I had signed on at like 5am yesterday but not since then (told ya I was online yesterday AM before the day phase started).
So I'm probs gonna vtl Ragnar. I have a good idea who another scum might be but wanna wait for warren's role claim like I said.
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I really want warren to claim so I can give my full reads.
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@drafterman
@WaterPhoenix
@drafterman - The only reason Speed was an odd choice for a NK is cuz mafia could have tried to pin that1user's mislynch on him. Myself and warren both said we strongly town read Speed based on something that happened on Discord on Friday night. It would make sense for them to kill Speed for strongly being read town, although admittedly I thought Speed was guilty after last dp. Did you get results from Ragnar...?
Knowing Speed's flip + whiteflame's full role claim puts him (and only him) in my town pile.
I'ma reserve my comments regarding MisterChris and Pie for when I get warren's role claim.
@WaterPhoenix - Why do you think being confirmed redirector means you're confirmed town? In just about every game there's a role mafia has that they can prove yet they're scum. I've been a mafia Lookout/Scout (Tracker/Watcher) before. We've had a few Popular scum in recent games. Pie was a mafia Messenger in a recent game and could prove his role by sending messages. It's odd that you think being shown to have redirect (which was already established) somehow confirms you which you said in post #74. It sounds like you're just hoping people accept that for no reason. I also think it's weird that you haven't posted any analysis but stopped by when I posted today. What are your reads?
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@whiteflame
Thank you. I fell and injured my shoulder pretty badly. The X-rays came out clear but I've been in massive pain so they gave me some anti inflammatory and muscle relaxers. They told me I should probably only take them at night cuz it's gonna make me loopy but #YOLO
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@warren42
It's hard to explain my role PM without wording it verbatim. Removing fluff stuff about my character: I'm Albedo from Overlord. Basically I have a high defensive power which allows me to transfer damage onto my armor instead. Because I am a very powerful winged beauty that can deflect kills, I am a Siren. I can target a player and if they target me that night, they die. On NP1 I was role blocked. On NP2 I was not role blocked. @warren are you a Jailkeeper? Cuz if not I have a theory about who scum might be. Gonna post the rest of my reads now.
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HI! I signed on yesterday AM and the day phase wasn't posted yet. This morning I was in Urgent Care and now I'm all hopped up on muscle relaxers (lol @ me going back to work soon). BRB reading the day phase now.
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I don't believe women actually get beaten. I think they're lying. You can't trust anything they say.
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@MisterChris
Hey, I didn't get to judge lol. Congrats though :)
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I've decided I'm not going to waste time arguing whether or not there is systemic racism in criminal justice today. Everyone with half a brain knows there is. Some examples are exaggerated; that doesn't mean it doesn't exist all-together. A blatant example is the policing and sentencing disparity between black and white people when it comes to drug offenses. The way black vs. white addicts are treated has a stark contrast, and that was WAY more prevalent in the 80s and 90s. Black communities are still experiencing the ripple effects of that today regarding criminal records, lack of opportunities, bad schools, fatherlessness, addiction, living in areas of concentrated crime and poverty, etc. To think there wasn't and aren't systemic problems is just beyond ignorant.
Can we go back to discussing Trump's failed lawsuits? <3
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@Greyparrot
So you agree that the fact that they commit more crimes is not systemic racism.
"Similarly if black communities have higher crime rates, then a greater police presence wouldn't necessarily indicate racism in criminal justice. But if black people are far more likely to be stopped for ‘reasonable suspicion’ (as opposed to actually breaking a law) and are three times more likely than any other group to be searched, even though searches of white people were more likely to turn up contraband -- then yeah that would be an example of systemic racism in criminal justice."
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@That1User
I need to sign off but quickly why do you think redirecting a kill from Speed to Croc "bleeds scum?" I have some concerns about WP but this is a very strong hunch from someone who wasn't really pushing this wagon at all this DP. In fact I don't think you mentioned WP until I asked you who you wanted to lynch just now, did you? And I thought you said you town read Water or at least he was only 1 of 3 people that you did not list in your scum pile earlier.
Ehh I've seen enough. I g2g so vtl that1user. Note there is a chance I am able to sign on again before 8 pm EST but I'm not 100% sure.
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@whiteflame
Supa clarified that anyone who had their role redirected would be alerted to said redirect. That being said, it's extremely likely that WP did not have that information before he redirected this night action, so that information should not inform any perception of WP's choice to redirect in NP1.
It was my understanding this is a role to mess with town and provide inaccurate results to investigators. Telling the town they got inaccurate results seems like telling a flavored cop their flavor which kinda defeats the purpose, no? If Supa tells people they've been redirected then I feel like redirector is either a town role (because it doesn't help mafia at all), or I agree with you that mafia knows their targets will be informed of the redirect and can use that to their advantage somehow. Did WP clarify that he knew ahead of time his targets would be informed? (That doesn't necessarily reveal his affiliation - I'm curious though for my assessment.)
FWIW I just remembered that Pie had only claimed vig after someone said "if there's a vig claim now or I'll assume you're hostile TP" which is one of the reasons I put him in my willing to lynch pile. Still think that1user is the best option to lynch. I just remembered that.
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Nvm scratch that my analysis about WP stands. It's helpful that he would redirect a kill from Speed, but in looking up the role it doesn't only apply to kills. What if a Tracker had targeted Speed but was redirected to Croc who didn't visit anyone, and Speed claimed in the DP that he had visited someone the night before. The Tracker might call it out as a lie. So I feel like interfering at all is very risky unless you're confident you're gonna redirect a NK. Hmm. I have like 30 mins to think about this.
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Nvm I see what WP means. I just looked up the role and it's not necessarily scum... disregard that last analysis; let me think about it.
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@That1User
Reminder that I have to sign off at 4:30 EST cuz I have an in-person meeting at 5. At this point I'm most comfortable lynching that1user for reasons I outlined in post #488 and which Speed outlined in #461. In the worst case scenario she's town, we get more info from lynching her than anyone else given how much discussion was focused on her this DP.
I'm also wary about WaterPhoenix, particularly post #200 and the way attention shifted off WP to that1user. Regarding use of his role, WP said "ya but it's an anti-town role so since i thought you were scum i redirected your kill onto the most anti-town person in my opinion. i thought he was heavily lean town but the fact that he's an anti town role makes it so that i'd pick him to redirect to rather than any of you." If he thought Croc heavily leaned town, why use the role at all? Why not just waive? (Note Speed somewhat defended WP not waiving.)
And also re: Speed, in post #461 he claimed that1user is behaving "exactly like she did in Civil War Mafia" but in post #385 he said he scum read her cuz "I've never seen her act like this." So which is it: is she acting like she did previously as scum or acting in a way he's never seen? If she turns up town it could raise concerns about my town read of Speed but again this goes back to why I think we get the most information out of that1user's lynch.
As far as who else I'd be willing to lynch this DP: drafter out of principle, WP for weird behavior including disappearing under some pressure + having a relatively scummy role, and possibly Pie for potentially being TP or having an extra mafia killing capability. Out of these options I think you're the best choice for aforementioned reasons. Who would YOU be willing to lynch and do you think you can convince everyone else to lynch that person within the next ~4 hours? Cuz I'm signing off soon.
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@That1User
Someone probably roleblocked you, who do you think it is?
I don't really have a scum pile atm. I have a lean town pile and "people I'm willing to lynch this DP" pile, which you're in.
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@That1User
I can prove to you that I am the NP3 bride, either by you lynching me or letting me live to NP3
You would have to live to DP4 to prove your alleged role, which saves you from being lynched this DP and discounts you for consideration next DP. Depending on how many people are in the mafia, it could be a decent trade off to guarantee you living two more day phases, especially if we mislynch this DP and the next.
For the third time: why do you town read Pie, warren and WaterPhoenix? I'm curious.
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@WaterPhoenix
I'd actually like to hear from WaterPhoenix now that that1user claimed Bride. The last time WP posted he sided with that1user and echoed suspicion for Ragnar + whiteflame and possibly Speed iirc. I'm curious what he thinks of the new claim and if those reads still hold.
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@That1User
Did you ever answer why the only people you don't scum read are warren, Pie and WaterPhoenix? I'm curious.
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@drafterman
@ILikePie5
@warren42
Thoughts on that1user? What are your reads?
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@That1User
I think you and/or Speed is lying about your role claims. You could be a scum team but I doubt it. I'm more inclined to believe Speed's role claim because of something that happened Friday night on Discord. This gives your Bride claim slightly less credibility when I analyze game mechanics. You lying about your role removes further credibility, and more than that you seemingly tried to soft claim vanilla which I find more scummy than claiming vanilla. Had you claimed vanilla outright I could potentially buy the argument that you were lying to hide your real role. However the fact that you soft claimed looks like you were actively trying to buy town cred and not just avoid being a mafia NK.
I also think it's weird that your Bride role goes into effect on NP3. I've never seen that before regarding this role, and the only explanation is that it buys you time from being lynched. So all of these factors (game mechanics + your soft claim lie + convenient NP3 qualifier + you calling out everyone as scummy + you admittedly voting for drafter out of "panic" for a "gambit" + switching to vote for Speed pretty quickly) makes it seem like we have no choice to lynch you. I personally have to cast my vote by 4:30 EST as I have an appointment this evening.
Do you still scum read Speed? Who else?
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@Speedrace
Seriously can't believe you guys are actually considering her claim lol
I don't think I played Civil War mafia. I feel like I've only played with her in a few games. I thought she was noobish which is why this behavior read to me like advice from scummates ("Nobody's going to believe that Supa's fave character is vanilla! Say you're the Bride"). To be honest I could see you giving this advice and now potentially bussing her.
Obvs it doesn't make sense that she went from voting for drafter to immediately voting for you, and this after saying she was "SOFT CLAIMING" to you. She's basically saying she read you town enough to soft claim but then suddenly read you scum. It doesn't make sense that she name dropped reading 60% of the living players as scum. It doesn't make sense that she allegedly soft claimed Bride by saying she was into vanilla ice cream. It doesn't make sense that she claimed a twilight role (whatever that means) and there was apparently no twilight. But as a wise man once said: "Most of these niggas gon' hang themselves, just give 'em the rope and see." So I'm questioning and watching this all unfold. I'm also looking for other people's reactions to her posts but shh.
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@That1User
This soft claim was only supposed to make sense to Speed as dreamer
So you think claiming to like vanilla ice cream is a soft claim for Bride. Interesting. At which point did you start to suspect he was scum?
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Interesting. Why would the Bride role go into effect on DP3? That would essentially be an Innocent Child role cuz the Bride could theoretically prove their innocence by proposing to someone else. However if the Bride proposes to scum I guess they could get her lynched by saying she never proposed? It could be an interesting way to "confirm" 2 townies if we let her live. Not sure if it's worth it though or if she just made that up cuz there was so much pushback about Supa's alleged fave character being vanilla. Hmm. And this would be another investigative role of sorts... not sure I buy it. Lemme think. Kinda scummy af she outs this info now. Another "gambit?"
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With 10 living players I assume there are 3-4 scum between maf and third party. We should definitely lynch today given a decent chance of hitting scum if we utilize some kind of POE (obviously the debate is about whom to exclude -- for instance I would not consider voting Speed this DP whereas that1user wants to lynch him). I also think lynching gives us info to analyze next DP, and we have decent options to choose from based on behavior + claims. At least 1 claim arguably has negative town utility (redirector) and losing a vanilla is not the same as losing a PR.
I'm wary of Pie's vig claim but not sure if people want to pursue it. I would literally lynch drafter this DP for refusing to claim but I'm not sure people want to pursue it. I don't know how to read MisterChris' sudden activity and interest in the game when I have never seen him play before. I don't like whiteflame's emphasis on character claims, but it's not much different than MCU mafia iirc where I defended him doing this as town. I assume if you know the theme it might be hard not to read into it. However I don't like that WP and Ragnar are playing into that as well as other stuff like assuming mafia/town would not spell things correctly. To be clear (again I will repeat) I think mod psychology and outside ish like that is absolutely fair game in considerations, but I probs wouldn't mention it unless I had other strong points cuz it just seems kinda like low hanging fruit and reminiscent of the "Discord logic." Besides, I actually disagree that Supa is likely to misspell; I think he'd put a decent amount of consideration into his game and probs analyzed the roles/game a few times would be my guess. But I digress.
I don't like that1user bouncing around from person to person. Warren is playing completely null imo unless I'm not reading closely enough. I will re-read. It doesn't help we can't analyze his behavior from DP1. Anddd that's why I don't like including brand noobs in games but I'll save that for the End Game.
BRB gonna go back and analyze throughout the morning in between work calls. It is absolutely infuriating how busy I am all of a sudden.
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@MisterChris
So it will let us know how much weight to give crappy justifications in sniffing out scum.
Shouldn't you have an idea about that based on your own character + justification? o_O
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