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@Elminster
I know you were right with the spreadsheet :) I would have been annoyed and I was going to pretend to be, but my goal was to get lynched so I wanted to appear scummy and the mod mistake / editing the spreadsheet worked in my favor at making me appear scummy. I knew the mafia would try to get me lynched if I claimed PGO so I didn't have to do much work cuz they'd have an incentive to lynch me.
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@Lunatic
He was popular ... Role confirmation =/= affiliation confirmation.
Wasn't he tested multiple times though? I personally never believe that Popular = town because all roles that can be "confirmed" aside from Innocent Child are often mafia decoys. I may have said that in the game. I read Pie behaviorally town though. I kinda town read Croc too lol :( To be fair we all did. I think everyone including Speed put Pie and Croc in their definitive town pile.
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Yo I played that perfectly with a PGO claim lol. On DP2 my plan was to "rage quit" and pretend that Mikal broke the game again regarding the mod correcting the spreadsheet, so I was gonna claim to be Third Party but still call out who I thought was mafia had ya'll waited til I signed back on before lynching me. I thought Speed and that1user were mafia though so I would have been super wrong, but that probs only would have helped my cause at getting lynched :P
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BBL I HAVE TO SIGN OFF. PLEASE DO NOT LYNCH. I WOULD PREF LIKE TO CONTRIBUTE ANALYSIS BEFORE THE DP ENDS. Thank you.
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@That1User
any visiting roles should visit Danielle to confirm her PGO claim
Absolutely not. This is the dumbest advice ever -- are you noob scum?
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Honestly I need to run an errand so I have to come back and finish reading later (which I feel perfectly comfortable with cuz the DP has been extended). This shit is gonna be confusing and I wanna think about it. Essentially I wanna see who's pushing for my lynch which = scummy. It's the only way to kill me.
I'm also wary of Speed who is playing almost too pro town ("Guys, let's not rush anything") and usually he's more subtle which is why he's hard to read. I could also be getting paranoid cuz I remember last DP I believe it was Speed who said that1user would be dumb to claim vanilla given all the confusion over vanilla claims, and I said no actually vanilla would be a good claim because of that confusion (and scum would know that there really are vanillas). Per the Guilty result on that1user, I think if it turns out Supa is not paranoid and the result is legit, I will sus Speed.
But that's getting ahead of myself. For now I think we should lynch Greyparrot and assess the DP at who's pushing my lynch. Admittedly Speed wasn't in that group (within the first 10 pages anyway). I will absolutely be back later to think more about this.
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Nvm time's not winding down anymore so you're not lynching me lol brb still need to read 10 more pages.
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Whattup! I'm reading now and up to page 10. I'm 100% the PGO and did not receive any potato. I'm fairly certain GP is scum and didn't visit me cuz scum knows I'm not lying about my role. He didn't say anything about a potato yesterday. He claimed to be a mason and was allegedly linked to Luna. The mod just confirmed to me that had someone given me a potato, they would have died.
Scum has an incentive to get me lynched cuz they can't NK me. I'ma look closely at who's pushing to lynch me. My first thought was Pie but I see that he was also okay with lynching Parrot so I need to look more closely at that. The only reason I'd be willing to sacrifice myself today and be lynched is because time's winding down and #1 town's gonna wanna lynch me at some point anyway cuz of my role, and #2 I think we can find scum (Greyparrot and possibly others through wagons/behavioral pushes to lynch me).
Brb still reading 10+ more pages.
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Yo a two day Day Phase over Thanksgiving is really fucked up lol. Obviously I'm with family for the weekend. I will absolutely be online within a few hours (before the DP ends) to read and catch up.
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@Elminster
whiteflame can claim anything at this point - any non visiting role or vanilla seems safe. I just feel like as scum that would be completely stupid to do to paint a target on yourself. Everyone's gonna pressure him DP2. It seems bat shit or like something a complete n00b mafioso would do when panicking which whiteflame is not. However I don't mind pressuring/lynching him if he refuses which is why my vote's on him. Signing off for a bit.
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@Elminster
I agree with you on Speed, User and white being the best lynches if we decide to lynch. I disagree with Speed when he said that1user had no reason to fake claim vanilla given all the chatter over vanillas. If that1 is scum, then vanilla would be a perfect claim given all the confusion and knowing town has vanillas.
I could see why people would be hesitant to lynch Speed and normally I would be to, but in this game I feel like he's more dangerous as scum than he is useful as town (especially as vanilla) if that makes sense, so I'm open to him or that1user. Usually I'd rather NL than mislynch but neither one of them give me warm fuzzy town vibes.
As for whiteflame I just don't see any utility in scum refusing to claim at this point when every other role is out, but of course I'll lynch him if he refuses to reveal. He says he'd reveal DP2 though so I don't see the point in pressuring him but we can. I'm about to sign off for a few hours.
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@Elminster
You said you wanted to lynch Speed. I think whiteflame has the most votes cuz he refuses to claim and some people are voting No Lynch. What do you wanna do?
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@ILikePie5
The only reason I'm not voting for him is cuz I don't see the point lol. If he's scum he can easily fake claim. If he's town he could put a target on himself (or fake claim). We're gonna have to read him behaviorally at this point and tbh not claiming seems pro town to me since it is "anti town" not to claim, and doesn't make sense for scum to do IMO. I'd just fake claim because not claiming is gonna piss people off. So I'm pretty sure whiteflame is town but unvote & vtl whiteflame if it makes you feel better.
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@ILikePie5
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@ILikePie5
If whiteflame is scum, he would easily be able to fake claim at this point considering every other role is out.
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I just learned the term "role madness" last week when I hosted a game with no vanillas. Now people are saying vanillas can be in role madness games. Wut?
Anyway it must be said that knowing there could be a TP means the "mason" could easily be a cult recruiter. If ya'll are a cult, target me :P
I'm pretty sure everyone but whiteflame has claimed at this point. What's the vote count?
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Still reading on pg 17 but Unvote until I finish catching up.
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I don't buy Speed's vanilla claim at all. The thing is I can't see him claiming vanilla as scum either. I fully expect him to come up with some kind of additional role explanation or justification when pressured at L1 so unvote and VTL Speed. I wanna analyze what he's done in the DP in the context of knowing his "real" role claim.
Strong gut town read on Elminster but that may be just because we have similar reads and a similar town pile. No clue how to read Croc, whiteflame or that1user but whiteflame will probably be an easier read than Croc as the game goes on and that1user is coming down pretty hard on Speed which will be interesting.
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@ILikePie5
Right. I said I don't buy Speed's vanilla claim but don't feel the need to press it for now unless we're voting him for death.
I kinda read you town behaviorally which is annoying cuz my paranoia wants to make me sus your role. Oh well.
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@Elminster
Speed claimed vanilla. Are you voting him for death?
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@That1User
Lemme find that quote
Why are you still going on about this? Who cares! The mod acknowledged Pie got 6/6 votes and did not fucking die lol are you serious. He gave us a link in the OP which describes the Gallis role. You don't need a quote. The Gallis role has nothing to do with Pie's role claim. The Gallis role ends the DP in a No Lynch if you receive the majority of votes. Pie got a majority and the day did not end. Ergo, he's not the Gallis. Please let's move on.
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@Vader
Actually disregard my last post. I just remembered that Croc said I was "next" in the last game to be lynched just cuz Lunatic said so even though he had no reason. It looks like going along with whatever anyone says is his meta which is pretty annoying (I thought he might be obviously band wagoning on Supa but apparently that's his M.O.). We're gonna need a claim from Croc at some point cuz there's no way to read that behavior or play style as far as I can tell. Probs not today though.
@Supa you need to claim as soon as you come on cuz the DP ends tomorrow morning and I wanna play Live Mafia tonight without having to worry too much about this game.
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@Crocodile
Also Danielle, I want to get Supa to claim cuz i noticed some people had slight fos on him but i may be wrong.
Yes, that's why I'm asking why you want his claim. Are you saying that you're just hopping on the wagon?
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@Crocodile
I do agree we should pressure Supa for a claim
Why is that?
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@That1User
What do you mean "do we risk it?" The mod just confirmed that if there were a Judas in the game, upon being lynched the day phase would have ended (so Pie wouldn't have died but the day phase would be over). Since the DP progressed we know Pie is Popular. I'm not convinced he's a Popular townie but I'm sure his role claim is valid and don't see the need to dwell on it for now.
Since Supa only has 3/6 votes I'm comfortable vtl Supa to bring him to 4 votes and get a claim.
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@That1User
I think lynching Speed to test his vanilla claim seems like a waste. There might be other reasons to lynch Speed (we'll see) but that's not a good one. He could be town lying or not revealing everything about the nature of his role as town often does.
Right now I'm more curious to see what drafterman's answer is re: the Judas role, cuz if the day phase wouldn't end with a Judas conversion then I say we get Pie to 6/6 again just to be doubly sure about his Popular role and make sure he isn't Judas being converted to scum by that first lynch. Even so I'm not convinced a Popular role is necessarily town (since the role list doesn't say that) but I'd be willing to ignore it for now if we can at least verify the role. If Pie turns out to be Judas I'll sus Speed more. But no I am not down to lynch him based on claiming vanilla alone.
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@drafterman
@Speedrace
All of the roles you mentioned would end the dayphase
Per the spreadsheet, one of the role options is Judas: "You win with the town. The first time you are lynched you will not die, but your alignment will change to win with the mafia."
@drafterman - If there is a Judas in the game, would the DP end with their lynch or would they just convert?
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@Vader
Unvote cuz I think Supa is at 5/6 now and I just want his claim atm. He should be at 4 now with my unvote.
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@That1User
Why is it wrong for Elminster to wanna lynch Supa based on a read but you want to lynch Speed based on a read?
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Definitely down to get a role claim from Supa. Unvote and VTL Supa.
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@ILikePie5
Your role and my role fuels the paranoia. But the vanillas don’t
Your role is the opposite of fueling paranoia: you can "CONFIRM" your role, which is exactly why I'm paranoid about it (lol I realize that sounds almost contradictory but you know what I mean). Basically I'm convinced that the roles in this game are fuckery roles, so the fact that you have a role you can so easily verify makes me suspicious. I don't believe that the vanillas are really vanilla. We have 2 claimed vanillas (unless I misread: Lunatic and Speed). Luna is a modified vanilla who can die if he says something wrong and Speed is probs not telling the whole truth about his role, whatever it is.
Anyway I really am signing off now. Goodnight all.
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@Lunatic
Thoughts?
This game does have a theme in a sense that the roles were chosen for a specific purpose: to induce paranoia.
Claimed roles so far: Mason, Vanilla / modified Vanilla, PGO, Popular. I briefly skimmed the list of potential roles just now and noticed there is a "Popular" role but it is not a Popular Townie role. I think that's intentional cuz I've never seen it not called a Popular Townie before, have you? Anyway I'ma think about it tomorrow. I kinda wanted to see Pie's dialog with Supa play out where he asked Supa if he scum read you (Lunatic). I got a bad feeling about Supa's "this is a waste of time" post just cuz it felt forced, and if Pie got the same feeling then that might have given him some town cred.
I'm off for the night but I will be on early in the AM.
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@Speedrace
I will look at the list of potential roles tomorrow cuz I'm about to sign off for the night, but there are roles where you don't die from being lynched - i.e. the role we had in the last two Mafia games where if you're lynched then you convert to the mafia... in fact Pie WAS that role in my last game. Luna was that role in the game before. In fact I'm pretty confident that Pie not dying from being lynched doesn't mean anything. I understand the Popular Townie role exists and he may very well be it. There's nothing we can do about it now. Like I said you can call me paranoid (no pun intended this time), but I suspect there are going to be twists and turns in this game. It just doesn't prove anything to me that we confirmed his role is all. (Elminster knows what I'm talking about -- he goes by behavioral reads over everythang too.)
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@Speedrace
@Speed - There is no utility of a mass claim in forum games cuz mafia could easily delay claiming. I feel like you're smart enough to know that, and therefore encouraging a mass claim may be trying to buy yourself town cred (i.e. "look how willing I am to claim"). I'm a little sus of it because you've brought it up multiple times now.
I sus Supa's comment about it being a "waste of time" to try to decode Luna's role which I disagree with. Ya'll know I hate wasting time, but the game had literally just started when he said that, so it seemed like one of those off remarks Supa makes as scum sometimes (i.e. his off remarks last game regarding Ayyantu).
Call me paranoid (pun intended) but Pie being able to prove his role means nothing to me in a game that I suspect has roles that are kind of bastardish. In fact in most Mafia games where you have roles that can blatantly prove their role like that, unless they're the Innocent Child then they're usually mafia or third party.
And speaking of paranoid, I'm the PGO which I'm only claiming cuz I have to before the DP ends, and who knows what will happen as I plan on signing off soon for the night.
I buy Elminster's lean town pile for now, and I'm town, but that still leaves a pretty big pool for potential scum.
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@Speedrace
I think a mass claim now of all times would be beneficial
Not sure but I'ma claim before the DP ends. I feel like your vote is being wasted right now tbh. Help me pressure Pie.
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@thett3
It's true that Latinos are a very diverse bunch and some groups swung harder than others. But it isn't just one city...it's everywhere.
I have no doubt that more Latinos swung for Trump in 2020 than they ever have for Republicans before - I just don't believe that Trump received the majority of the Latino or black vote. Whites will be a minority within the next few decades (probably not in positions of power or money though) so I think it's inevitable for the country to become less polarized by race and more by class as demographics shift. But I'm still wondering to what extent geography plays a role. I'm not convinced that Puerto Ricans in the Bronx getting by on food stamps are gonna be gung-ho for Trump based on his trade policies with China, nah mean?
To a lot of people a disregard for government guaranteed healthcare is a sign they don't care about the poor. I think it will be hard for the GOP to position itself as champions for the poor and working class when they're so opposed to funding things like education, social programs or institutions aimed at establishing some kind of equity for the disenfranchised. The GOP was successful among poor whites for a very long time by mounting a culture war against the left. Trump was the Republican comeuppance for decades of policy that told the poor it was their fault for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. It'll be interesting to see if the GOP can win going forward when it's not resting on the laurels of anti abortion rhetoric. If it's true that people will be less divided based on race (and LGBT issues) going forward, I'm fascinated to see if/how the party shifts from here. I don't see why there wouldn't be a rift in the GOP between populists and capitalists like there is in the Democrat Party between progressives and moderates.
I think the best thing Trump did for the worker that an establishment politician wouldn't do is that he refused to loosen visa restrictions
That is probably true. I agree with everything you said about presidents and the economy. Amusingly I just came across this post from April.
You have to admire McConnell for how effective he is (and notice also how he squeezed Trump for absolutely everything he was worth to "the party")
Lol I admire Nancy Pelosi for (historically) being effective as well, though there is no doubt Mitch McConnell is *chef's kiss*
What kind of person from my generation would WANT to be a cop?
I can answer that :P
If the culture makes the police out to be violent sociopaths, only violent sociopath is going to want to become a cop and the problem is going to get a lot worse. I also feel uncomfortable demonizing the police because of the many good police officers out there.
The only reason I get "ACAB" is because of the blue wall of silence. I understand where you're coming from, but if there is a precinct with 100 cops and only 2 of them are bad then there are actually 100 bad cops in that precinct. There's no reason bad cops should be allowed to stick around and the "brotherhood" mentality that looks to protect and serve fellow cops more than the public is why I'm comfortable with sweeping generalizations that I otherwise would not be.
Have you seen the Netflix documentary Trial 4? There are so many good ones just like it, but that's the one that's trending now.
I also think the concept of demonizing cops is a myth. Most of society just doesn't do that and in fact does the exact opposite, which is why the phrase Blue Lives Matter almost infuriates me (while I understand the innocent ignorance behind All Lives Matter). We agree it's notoriously hard to convict a cop. Blue Lives are revered, prioritized and sanctified in our culture. Cops have more legal power than the vast majority of citizens. Their word is almost always believed in court and taken at face value, period. If a cop is assaulted or killed, not just the cops but the entire criminal justice system RALLIES and devotes an insane amount of resources to find and prosecute the offender. You get higher penalties for going after a cop then you would an ordinary citizen, and there is a massive funeral accompanied by pomp and circumstance if a cop is killed. Thousands attend, candle lit vigils are held, it makes the nightly news, and your family gets special survivor compensation benefits. Compared to the way an average, or worse POOR black person in society is treated when they are the victim of a crime or killing makes it just utterly nonsensical and so disrespectful to utter the phrase "Blue Lives Matter" in any type of analogous reference.
As I said, I firmly believe if there was actual change and reform then a lot of the anti-cop rhetoric would go away. I also think you can make an argument to the "Defund" crowd for increasing resources to cops -- those people don't tend to be against government funding. One option I've heard is to make law enforcement a highly respected, lucrative career by increasing the salary and requirements needed. I'd imagine this kind of change might not be necessary all over the country and believe that so long as we have more transparency and accountability a lot will change. The police unions, especially in big cities just have way too much power. So it doesn't bother me that so many are attacking them as an institution even though I agree not all individuals are bad. I just really want to see positive change here and care increasingly less how it comes about.
I just don't believe that somebody should be unable to feed their family because they said something uncouth during an argument.
We probs agree very much on this. It's just that since conservatives are the ones who are generally pro discrimination, it's hard for me to accept Cancel Culture as a "leftist" issue. The fact that conservatives are not very effective at it is great (outside of legal victories for "religious freedom") but I'm still pretty annoyed by it.
There was a poll done last Summer which found an extraordinary number of people from BOTH parties believe that you should be able to fire someone merely if they donated to Trump or Biden. I could look it up later when I'm not busy. If you want another egregious example of Cancel Culture for your arsenal though, you should look up the professor who was fired from USC for saying the Chinese word "nega" lol. It's the most insane one I've heard.
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@Sum1hugme
There's a meme I wish I had handy about property rights, where someone just goes outside and says "this is mine now" lol.
I'm familiar with libertarian ethics. I maintain that property rights are predicated on force. Just because some philosophers theorize that mixing labor with "unclaimed" objects or land makes it somehow legitimate property doesn't mean anything. Libertarians disagree over intellectual property because all concepts of "property" are just ideas. The homestead principle libertarians seem to like is one theory on property and lots of people have many other ideas. What gets enforced (i.e. has meaningful real world application insofar as property rights) is solely which one can defend with violence or have the government defend on their behalf, backed by the threat of violence.
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I'm looking forward to reading your debate about free will. Tag me if I forget.
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@Sum1hugme
The state's existence is predicated on the monopolization of force
The concept of property rights is predicated on force (what you can defend with violence) so obviously government is too.
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Has anyone seen Trial 4 on Netflix? There are so many documentaries just like this, but I'm glad they are made.
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@RoderickSpode
Most children will believe anything you tell them; it doesn't mean they "start out" believing in it. I'm not sure of the point of the OP.
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Children also accept the existence of Santa Clause if you teach it to them.
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What a delightful person you are.
I'm on my period.
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