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@MgtowDemon
You're unfunny
YEAH CUZ I'M A WOMAN YOU FUCKING IDIOT now sit there, shut up and suffer.
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@MgtowDemon
I hope your feminist mind rot hasn't too badly affected to respond to basic requests
What is mind rot? Is that an ingredient I can put in my husband's sandwiches? It sounds German.
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@MgtowDemon
Aileen Wuornos I rest my case
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@MgtowDemon
You haven't presented any data to certify your claims.
Harvard
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@Lunatic
Actually on second thought I don't have the energy lol nvm
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@Greyparrot
So money doesn't matter in politics?
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@Lunatic
Lol you were accusing me of being able to bus supa on dp2 remember? Why are you excluded from potential busses where I am not?
I disagree that you had reason to scum read me just because I was inactive DP1 and therefore not on Supa's lynch (especially since I was the one saying his logic against Ayyantu was poor). However, this ^ is an annoyingly good point lol. I don't have an answer :(
I guess I can go back to being extra chill and not caring if I'm scum read anymore. That's no fun though. I think if I get hyped up and defensive, it increases my chances of scum keeping me alive so actually I might stick with that.
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@Greyparrot
Also...why the hell are our avatars anthropomorphic animals with sunglasses?????
I just noticed that yesterday! I thought you did it in honor of me. I was flattered.
Like I've said, I'm fascinated to see where the GOP goes from here. I understand why you don't think the Mitt Romney's of the world will never be relevant again, and that may be true. But we know Trump's personality lost in 2020. We don't know that it would have won in 2016 had the Dems run a more likeable candidate and better campaign.
Maybe there is a balance to be struck. I think voters liked the "political outsider" populism and pro America posturing from Trump, but they were exhausted by 2020 from all his shenanigans. Perhaps the GOP needs another big personality that's a bit more dignified, although again I truly find it hard to believe that the Republican Party is suddenly going to abandon their corporatist agenda so that's another thing I'm curious to see play out.
You're the one who keeps reiterating that Congress > President, so what makes you think the Republican Congress has done a complete 180? I guess it's possible Trump runs a media conglomerate and promotes specific candidates (eventually his offspring; probably Ivanka) that propel a protectionist position that may gain steam within the GOP. That's my prediction of what's to come. It'll be interesting to see how that divides the GOP though much like progressives do the Dems.
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@Lunatic
Sir was definitely in my top scum reads, but he was NOT "pretty much found guilty" lol like what
Yes, he was pretty much found guilty per that1user's flip on DP3. As soon as he was obv guilty the scum read on me should have dropped.
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@Lunatic
I'm not offended - just frustrated that defending myself against poor logic reads scummy. I completely agree you had no reason to town read me at all, but you had no reason to scum read me either. I think the more pro town thing to do would be to question me instead of accuse me when you had little to nothing to go on. I could see an accusation being a reaction test, but you know I'm gonna be annoyed by bad reasoning so that's not a scum tell for me :P
When you said I was scummy it made Croc automatically agree with you, saying I was "next" without even asking for my claim which was just annoying. He even admitted he had no reason and just went along with it because you said so, so you can't just say things like that in passing and expect no reaction. People listen to you.
If you look at how I play (and Magic even more so than me) we are hesitant to assert things unless we're pretty confident. I think it's just a difference in play style where I take assertive statements more seriously. When Croc said I was "next" it seemed like ya'll had both made a premature decision. I was kinda glad though cuz I figured scum would keep me alive if you sussed me, so I was actually pretty happy about it. And I was right - Speed wasn't gonna kill me! Damn it, Croc.
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@Speedrace
Yes I did answer you lol I said "this is the post I made" and then c/p it cuz I had it saved in my email drafts.
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@Greyparrot
I'm not screaming :) I just have to correct your shitty takes and less than mediocre contributions. Even now you probably think you're making some kind of point about the Democrats' battle for the Senate.
Yes. Democrats would like to have a Senate majority. What a profoundly astute observation. Thank you for the civics reminder on how the Supreme Court picks are decided. What does that have to do with anything we were talking about? You said Big Business donates more to Democrats. That was wrong. I noted that interestingly unions are the biggest orgs that donate to Dems. Then you brought up a red herring about how "the president doesn't matter much to you" to distract from the fact that your claim about donations was incorrect. So I said the president matters to people like me and you think I'm "screaming" because I explained why? Lol relax.
I also respect Yang for addressing the problem of displaced workers in a world without tariffs.
And I could get down with a good RINO. Mitt Romney isn't a RINO but I do like him. Trump's a RINO lol.
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@Greyparrot
Ask Merrick Garland about how insignificant the Senate is to shaping the makeup of the SCOTUS.
Sure. Then you can Ask Mitt Romney how his federal appointments to the judiciary are working out for him.
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@Greyparrot
If you haven't needed a Supreme Court case to determine if (people like) you have equal rights, then you're privileged enough to not have to care who the President is. Unfortunately the President does have direct power over people like me regarding their political and judicial appointments. For instance the Trump administration submitted amicus briefs to the Supreme Court in support of discrimination against LGBTQ people. My wife doesn't work for the state anymore but she used to. It's not an unimaginable world where I could be directly impacted by troglodyte conservatives.
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2016 and up is all I care about.
Interesting. Looks like most money going to Dems from "organizations" are unions.
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@Greyparrot
If the "scream at the sky" club was so smart, they wouldn't have cannibalized the power of the Congress for a stupid faceman in a fancy white house.
If the "I'm desperate to suck the spray tan off Trump's dick" club was so smart, they wouldn't routinely vote against their own interests just to "own the libs" on Facebook. Thank god Facebook is free or else many wouldn't even be able to do that.
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@Greyparrot
So you are one of those "learn to code" types.
Well I don't fetishize Ayn Rand but I recognize the reality of evolving markets. Did you somehow figure out how to hook up a typewriter to the internet so as to not displace any typewriter manufacturers and salesman? Or did you get yourself a computer? Hopefully not the latter. I would hate to see you be such a selfish, un-American capitalist.
If your primary concern is ensuring everyone has a (well paying) job, why not just have the government hire people to dig holes with spoons? Then you could hire other people to re-fill the holes with spoons and double the demand for labor. BAM I AM A FUCKING GENIUS. Eat shit Donald Trump I just figured out how to wipe out unemployment entirely. Someone get this idea to Bernie.
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@Greyparrot
According to the Center for Responsive Politics, from 1990 - 2020 Republicans received 57% of donations from big business while Democrats received 43%.
Business trade associations gave 84% of their campaign contributions to Republicans and just 16% to Democrats.
A 2019 report found found that 57.7% of CEOs from the top 1,500 US companies donated to Republicans and just 18.6% donated to Democrats.
So yes there is a lot of corporate money everywhere but more goes to Republicans overall. Dems are the ones who advocate for campaign finance reform (though I disagree with them on Citizens United) and that have candidates who want to end corporate donations entirely. You probably agree with Dems on this and just feel the need to shit on them anyway because you can't help yourself. Trump supporters are too stupid for their own good.
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@Greyparrot
Which party got the most money? It's not even close, 2016 the money was 2 to 1.
Who cares? We're specifically talking about money from Big Business and not the year 2016 alone.
I know it hurts the feels but the DNC is the party that stays bought.
Do you have a problem with that?
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@Speedrace
I think I would have lynched Water tbh
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Sex slaves and rape "victims" are also treated pretty well. You mean to tell me they don't enjoy getting laid?
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@Lunatic
Also on DP3 SirAnon was pretty much found guilty, and I was the one pushing for SirAnon to claim the previous day phase by pointing out his positions were all frustratingly neutral. In fact I was voting for SirAnon, NOT INTEL, the day Intel was lynched. Ergo I was going after Supa and SirAnon in the game but somehow my very first vote/post of the game made me scum? Lol it just made no darn sense.
Sorry I couldn't edit my last post but I just remembered this :P
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@ILikePie5
What is your opinion in terms of balance? This was my first TP game so looking for advice/criticisms
At quick glance of the game, the balance looks good! I personally don't love third parties but I could see how some are fun. I think I was just being bitter lol Speed's win seems legit in hindsight. He could have been found by the Cop or Tracker I guess. But as far as game play there's really no way for town to figure out who TP is through behavior. You usually need investigative roles of some kind which we lost which was just bad luck... although I dislike Greyparrot's play style but that's another story.
I think two things would have gotten me to lynch Speed though had I made it to the end game, but there's no way to be sure, so I won't pretend I am:
#1 his role claim just cuz it sounded more third party-ish than the others (I was actually worried that mine sounded TP as well) and #2 he was obviously trying to get me penalized for deleting a post, which reeked anti-town. It was actually very hard for me not to omgus him from that just because I was like why tf is he trying so hard to get me to repeatedly admit I deleted something? I was very honest about it because I felt bad as I do believe in game integrity. To me that push suggested Speed wanted me out of the game or wanted me penalized in some way, and since I was playing pretty town IMO it gave me bad vibes. I'm surprised he kept posting that openly in the DP and not just to you in private. For the record, I truly had no idea it was against the rules and did re-post the exact post I had made. I wasn't hiding anything but now I know for next time :)
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@SirAnonymous
Everyone was so busy looking for scum that they didn't stop to consider a third party.
Lol that is false. I brought up a TP multiple times and in fact Luna got annoyed because I said it could be him (I said it could be anyone in my town pile cuz they were probs playing pro town and I was right - Speed played pro town all game insofar as day phase scum hunting). It was pretty apparent there was a TP after you kept talking as if the mafia had lost at the end of the day phase. I actually felt bad for the mod, thinking "this is why people aren't supposed to talk" because you were giving things away. For instance even if the last scum were mafia, you made it pretty obvious it wasn't myself or Luna based on some things you said. And I also suspected the mafia only had two people based on Supa's post in another thread about town winning a lot lately (i.e. the mafia had a good shot at losing, i.e. 2 people).
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@Lunatic
Water said in DP1 that "someone on the Intel wagon was scum" and apparently that was enough evidence for people to go along with it cuz it was brought up several times with no good reason. The wagon didn't go anywhere and GP only pushed people to vote for Intel because everyone was refusing to cast a vote on the first day phase until the very end. That's why I decided not to participate much in DP1 anymore. The people on the Intel wagon were GP, myself and Bearman - none of which were scum lol. So let's look at your reasoning why my vote on Intel was apparently scummy:
"Your reasons for voting intelligence aren't what was relevant here. The supa wagon happened very fast an unexpectantly near the end of the phase, scum very likely were not expecting that. I know you weren't active near the end of the phase, but what does that give us to town confirm or help your case? At least sir and speed went on supa wagon near the end (even though I appropriately called out that was an incredibly optimal time to bus, especially after the horrible claim)."
#1 you admitted I wasn't active near the end of the DP, so your point about me not voting for Supa was irrelevant by your own admission - especially since I was the one who started saying Supa was playing iffy which I brought up multiple times. #2 you admitted that Sir and Speed choosing to lynch Supa didn't prove anything and was therefore also irrelevant in POE against me. So you argued against your own reasons because you knew they were really bad. Just saying!
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@Greyparrot
Last 2 elections show this isn't true at all. DNC got far, far more money from big corps.
Which elections were those? Both parties are dominated by corporate money, but I don't see how a link about union members supporting Trump proves that. There is no way you can deny Dems are better for workers and unions than the GOP which is why you haven't tried. Good. Unions directed 91% of their campaign contributions to Democrats from 1990 through the first half of 2020 for a reason. And individual union members voting against their own economic interests (or at least against worker protections and pro worker candidates) proves to me they're more likely racist than concerned about their financial well being than they are with worker rights, as I just said in my last post. The only reason they have unions in the first place is because of Democrats, but the second someone comes along and dog whistles to their biases their dicks get hard and they can't help but start waving giant flags with his name on it. How embarrassing.
I don't really care who is president in either party.
Lol coulda fooled me. You went hard for Trump. Own it.
You haven't answered my question about opportunity costs to the nation.
I don't see what my answer has to do with my skill set. I won't apologize for my tangent either, cuz I was responding to the wrong quote. Deal with it. My points are good. You're welcome for sharing my insight with you :)
Yes national security is one of the only opportunity costs I see from outsourcing if you're referring to the country as a whole and not individual jobs or industries. There's exposed security + economic risk being at the mercy of other countries in important sectors like manufacturing. Take the Covid-19 crisis as one example when we needed lots of PPE and fast. We would not want to have to rely on China or any other country for supplies in an instance like that.
It goes without saying I'm very much pro trade. I do think we need to renegotiate a few things, but for the most part outsourcing jobs doesn't bother me. I guess another opportunity cost would be trading stability and security in exchange for prosperity and opportunity. However I very much value the latter. The economy will evolve to provide jobs in the US; that's what I was getting at in my last post.
There is an old anecdote (probably fiction) about Milton Friedman being taken on a tour of a giant Chinese infrastructure project of some kind, in which the workers were using old-fashioned shovels and picks and wheelbarrows. Friedman asked why they weren’t using bulldozers and other heavy machinery. The answer was“We care about creating jobs for our people.” To which Friedman responded “Then why not use spoons?”
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The songs I picked were Nocturne of Shadow, Saria's Song and Zelda's Lullaby. I've never played the game but looked up the songs quickly. Per the Zelda Wiki, Sheik teaches Link the song Nocturne of Shadow so that he can find the source of evil that invaded the village. I thought this would give me Cop powers but apparently it made me a "Medium" for the night. It's not the traditional Medium role at all though. It let a dead person (Supa) talk in the day phase. I didn't say anything about why Supa was able to talk cuz I was gonna use it to confirm my role later. I'm shocked Supa decided to talk lol it basically kinda role confirmed me had it gotten to that point.
Apparently Saria teaches "Saria's Song" to Link as a symbol of friendship when he visits her, and playing the song allows Link to communicate with Saria at any time. I thought this would give me Messenger or Mason powers but all it would do is allow me to visit someone and nothing would happen lol big woop. I visited myself hoping there was a Watcher in the game. I didn't wanna visit anyone else since I didn't know what the action would do.
I thought Zelda's Lullaby would put someone to sleep, i.e. role block or prevent them from carrying out the NK which is why I used that song my last night.
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@Lunatic
@Crocodile
Yo I survived three day phases. Not bad!!! Croc can go fuck himself (and I hope he doesn't cum) for redirecting his kill to me. I would have made it to DP4 which is a new record. Woo!
Luna explain to me why me voting for Intelligence at the start of the game (and saying nothing else about him nor voting him the day he was lynched) made me a "gut hunch scum read" cuz that was insanely dumb lol. Now I won't know how to read you in games going forward if you actually went on a dumb ass tangent about that. Great!
And Croc explain why you're such a little weenie that you would go along with that ridiculous logic just cuz Luna said so lol. Grow a pair.
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Good job town we did it
lol
I guess also technically TP can investigate guilty so they can be legit. So annoying though.
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I guess I can see a legitimate TP win. By that time you can only look at claims (since behavior means nothing). A role that knows all the other roles in the game is more likely to be TP so I would have picked Speed per role claims. I was afraid if I claimed my real role it would sound TP.
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@Crocodile
HOW DID TP WIN WHAthat's why sir thought we won i think
Yes, duh. He clearly was posting as if the mafia lost (Supa also made it kinda obvious the mafia only had 2 people per his post about town winning a lot recently) so it was obvs third party left in the game. As I said all along, TP can play pro town the entire game and still to their win con at the same time so I don't count them and consider this a town win as well :P
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@Greyparrot
What do you think the opportunity costs are for a nation that outsources much of its unskilled labor?
It increases company profits which is good for business owners and shareholders (and hey Trump uses the stock market as the primary benchmark for a nation's economic success, so it must be valid). It lowers the cost of consumer goods. It allows for trade opportunities like the example I gave yesterday re: my friend who runs two businesses selling Chinese goods, and is able to employ dozens of Americans doing so. I also think it's a good way (maybe the only way) to lift third world countries out of poverty although that's not necessarily good for the object nation in question.
Like it or not the economy evolves. It evolved after slavery. It evolved after machines and later automation started replacing human labor. It evolved after WWII when we started to see the first shift away from manufacturing and into the service sector. I think for national security purposes we should continue some semblance of manufacturing. I also think everyone in the private sector should unionize. Sometimes for funsies I like to read and philosophize about concepts like UBI or worker collectives. Unlike most people I'm comfortable acknowledging I have more questions than answers.
What are the costs to the global environment for outsourcing manufacturing to known polluters? Is out of sight out of mind a sustainable policy if you care about the global climate?
I think most people who claim to care about the environment only do so to a very limited extent; most would not want to change their lifestyle. I don't have a strong knowledge of or moral position on the environment (meaning I don't think anyone has an inherent right to populate the Earth with future generations of their offspring) so I tend to be apathetic by default. I'd probably value positions that weigh health, security and property rights/capitalism on a cost-benefit analysis per individual basis.
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@Greyparrot
so government labor unions are god awful in practice.
Agreed. I am also against mandatory labor unions. However this idea of a conservative labor movement that seems to be touted by people like you and thett, who believe Trump and the GOP are going to "save the working class" is just so funny to me. Big Business funds and therefore controls the Republican Party. Unions are a core constituency of the Democrat Party. The reason ya'll can't admit the GOP doesn't give a shit about poor and working class Americans is is because you get way too much joy out of lamenting "the left" and laughing at liberal tears, so it's not convenient for you to acknowledge that Republicans have been promoting for decades policies that you allegedly hate. If you think they're going to be as generous with a Democrat president, you're in for a rude awakening. Will you rail against Party leadership like progressives do, or get in line and go back to championing the likes of Marco Rubio or whoever?
This is why it's so easy for me to write off Trump fans as racist or whatever, because if they actually prioritized worker rights they wouldn't be Republicans. Democrats were responsible for the passage of civil rights, age discrimination, disability rights, pregnancy discrimination, occupational health + safety, and the Family and Medical Leave acts just to name a few, while Republicans opposed all of these things as well as any effort to protect American wages. Now you know I'm a fan of capitalism so we can debate the merits of regulation and interventionism, but if you like those things (weekends off, child labor laws, etc.) and other trade protections as Trump fans do in railing against the "elite" capitalist class, then I don't see how they can hate Dems so emphatically. Republican leadership is also against things like government healthcare which is very popular among their constituents (cuz many of them don't have it). So why are Trump lovers so gung-ho about hating the left? They really can't turn a blind eye to the "radicals" in the party who believe in four genders (big deal) the way they turn a blind eye to the bigoted and conspiracy driven alt-right? Pfft.
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@Greyparrot
Labor is a form of capital
It isn't.
I guess I sorta am a communist for thinking a 100% free market is unsustainable for the health of a nation.
You're a communist for thinking government should be dictating the parameters of the economy and picking winners and losers based on what a handful of (likely ignorant and corrupt) bureaucrats believe is best for "the growth and society of a nation," yes. You didn't answer which field you would put me in though. I'm curious!
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This is one of my fave excerpts from the lawsuit heard in PA today:
If no county allowed voters to correct problems with mail-in ballots “it’s very likely that the results would have been very, very different,” argued Linda Kerns, a Philadelphia lawyer working alongside Giuliani.
Brann [the Judge] attacked that argument. “How does making it easier for some people to vote burden the plaintiffs’ right to vote?” Brann questioned.
Brann [the Judge] attacked that argument. “How does making it easier for some people to vote burden the plaintiffs’ right to vote?” Brann questioned.
Mark Aronchick, a lawyer defending Philadelphia, disputed Giuliani’s repeated contentions that it was illegal for counties to help people vote. A county should help people vote, he contended. “What’s wrong with that? What world are we living in here?” Aronchick argued.
What a world indeed. It's pretty sad the GOP is so open about wanting to make it harder for some, i.e. discount certain people's votes.
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@Greyparrot
Where did CNN say that?
(I'm pretty sure all of them have been thrown out, except for maybe the one that was heard today which hasn't been decided yet though the judge is pretty much laughing at it.)
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@Athias
We do have a right to our person and to behave said person as we see fit.
Why is that?
You're essentially asking me: "why don't I have a right to [eat chocolate ice cream]?" Because you don't have an exclusive claim to that action.
So semantics. I got ya.
Because you can never claim the acting of placing your baby in a dumpster at the exclusion of all others. Case in point: what if the father disputes this act? Whose alleged "right" do we honor then?
What if myself (and everyone else in society) disputes your analyses of rights? Whose alleged "rights" do we honor then?
With that said, I must impress that you and I are the ones having this dialogue.
I can appreciate that. You remind me of myself in my early 20s. I read every publication by Mises, Hayek, Friedman, Engels and Rothbard I could get my hands on. I even read some anarcho-syndicalists and communists for funsies. I was very libertarian (practically an-cap) for a good portion of my life, and of course when I was in college got very into philosophy. Who doesn't get a lil boner by Ayn Rand when they're 19, amirite? I thought abiding by the laws of logic were paramount and got annoyingly anal about axiomatic truths so I get where you're coming from. I even had Huey as my debate icon for the longest time lol. So I actually find this conversation very endearing and was only curious where you were at in your thought processes, that's all.
You can disregard this as I was just giving you context for my question.
It suffices to say that there is no "meaningful real world application" if everyone who participates doesn't buy in.
This is what I was getting at. The TLDR is that any idea on rights (as it pertains to government, property or commerce) essentially boils down to might makes right. If you're the only one who believes X then your views don't really matter insofar as being applicable. It comes down to what ideas you can defend and enforce among people. When you ask "how meaningful is enforcement when the enforcement itself undermines the right(s) it is intended to protect" I completely understand that paradox and question that many philosophers have tried to resolve. But here we are, and I expect if we go down a Socratic rabbit hole you'll come to similar conclusions most have had regarding the "necessary evil" of government and overriding of strict individualism for a functioning society. However I'm happy to engage in the back and forth because maybe I'll consider a new perspective I hadn't before.
By moral system, I mean a framework of moral concepts. Essentially, one ought not be compelled to subscribe to any one.
But one is compelled. Ignoring arguments for determinism and against free will (i.e. predisposition through genetics or environment compelling choices), what about babies? Would it be immoral or against what one ought to do or has a right to do if they give an infant medicine or life saving treatment? I think if we acknowledge any rights concerning infants regards the discretion of their parents or the state, we recognize how arbitrary our conditions for the existence of rights are - that's why I was asking about other species and non humans. We just make up the criteria as we go along, and because there is no moral absolute or moral imperative it's not necessarily immoral to do certain things in the name of government just like we "allow" certain things to be done for babies in the name of good parenting.
I'm probs not explaining this properly in between work calls. I almost forgot about this thread. I'm confident if you think about your "ideal government" or rather ideal society without government though, certain circumstances or conditions would arise where you wouldn't be able to apply some sort of straight edged logic as easily as you think. I suspect you'll figure that out in due time and probs not in this thread. I'm enjoying the conversation though.
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Oops didn't see the day phase ended
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@Crocodile
Re: my reads, I've town read Speed all game but I don't have a solid reason to other than gut hunch. However if SirAnon is scum then I will really lean town on Speed considering Speed was one of the first to push SirAnon. I also TR you as I said last day phase, and again if Speed is scum it will make you lean more town as well since you noted his CC this day phase (though I guess if SirAnon has a scum buddy, they would have no choice but to lay in on him after seeing that1user's flip).
That leaves Ayyantu, Water and Lunatic. I will say that Ayyantu's reads have been horrible all game and the only reason people are assuming he's town is because Supa tried to lynch him DP1. Luna doesn't think Supa is big brained enough for that, but now I'm paranoid thinking maybe the reason Supa pushed so hard on Ayyantu was specifically TO bus him lol. Otherwise it was just so forced imo. But we'll see. I'm comfortable being locked into those three and hope I survive the night.
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@Lunatic
Nice omgus btw. Yesterday you said I was town or third party lol. Maybe I broke the system and am all three! I guess in that circumstance you can't say you were wrong in the endgame huh? Clever.
Lol you're calling ME defensive? I couldn't care less about End Game bravado or statistics so you must have me confused with someone else. I said "if" you believe this then you're scum. That doesn't mean you're scum. That was my nice way of saying that your logic was trash because you couldn't be dumb enough to actually believe me voting for Intel in post #70 on DP1 proves anything.
Like I said I could say more but I don't feel the need :) The more you sus me the greater my chances of surviving the night, so you go 'head, girl! You go on witcha bad reads :)
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@Crocodile
You went on and on about your scum read on Intel yesterday. I didn't vote for him at all. I voted for him in post #70 on DP1 to get the game started (then I was silent the majority of DP1). I called out Supa's terrible logic on DP1 and I was voting for Sir Anon yesterday. Explain why "I'm next" if your read on me is not too big.
And yes Water and Ayyantu should def post. There's literally no reason to end the DP before they post when we know who we're lynching anyway. I wonder why that1user didn't CC SirAnon yesterday though. Weird.
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@Lunatic
Lol you said the same thing about Speed being "defensive" last DP when he asked why he was scum read. Perhaps I'm not being defensive so much as pointing out your logic on Intel was really, really bad.
I could say more but I won't in hopes the mafia keeps me alive tonight. Sus me, bitches!
And yeah I will 100% lynch SirAnon but feel like Water and Ayyantu should post first just in case there are any results.
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@Lunatic
I was voting for SirAnon last DP and made a case for him being scum. What do YOU think about that?
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@Lunatic
@Crocodile
Danielle was implicated by being on the intelligence lynch wagon all of dp1,
If you actually believe this makes me your #1 scum read then you're scum, periodt.
Me voting for Intelligence on DP literally proves nothing :) I didn't push for his lynch - I voted for him in post #70 before the game even got started. Then I was absent for the majority of DP1 and posted little to nothing. I explained why I voted for him last DP and you didn't say it was odd. Furthermore I didn't vote for him at all yesterday when he was lynched. Were you on that wagon? Cuz if you were and I wasn't, then saying Intel being town somehow implicates me definitely implicates you considering you contributed to his lynch and I did not. All I did was cast a vote for him DP1 at the beginning. Big woop. You might wanna re-think this logic :)
As a reminder I was the one saying Supa's reasoning on Ayyantu was poor (multiple times) on DP 1 so yeah, you're gonna have to do better than a "gut hunch." Now you've got players like Croc saying I'm next "in his opinion." I'd love to know why that opinion is lol care to explain, Croc?
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@Greyparrot
the whole point of sin taxes is to offset the costs associated with that consumption
Yes and the whole point of my reply is that there are associated costs with tariffs as well. I asked if you had any evidence to suggest the long term benefits would pan out with short term costs. Do you?
Growth in sectors beneficial for society and a nation.
So you're a communist. I'm curious: which job would you put me in per my skill set?
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@Conway
The next 4 years of their career begin with an oath: "I do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Right, I was asking whether or not a President has much impact on the economy overall, and if not, whether their policy positions matter all that much (if not, perhaps voters should focus more on other things instead - things the President has more direct control over). I think some of a President's policies matter more than others. That's what I was looking to discuss. Here is the economic policy of the Trump administration. Do we think it was overall good, bad or neutral? Do we think some of the policies should be extended or revised?
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@Greyparrot
Is it possible Trump traded short term revenues and temporary job losses for an incentive to retool the economy creating new lasting Domestic jobs with his sin-tax on foreign product consumers? If so, how is this any different from a tax-funded subsidy aimed at incentivizing long-term local development?
Yes, it's possible. Is there any evidence to support that will occur? The facts seem to show that tariffs and quotas seldom save jobs for long or preserve the competitiveness in industries that need to be "saved." But I am open to any data you have that suggests this will be the long-term outcome.
Sin taxes create higher costs for entrepreneurs which limits employment + growth opportunities. A subsidy is aimed at incentivizing development, not stifling it.
I think protectionists forget about the impact of "linkage" industries. By raising domestic prices for steel, for example, quota protection undermines the competitiveness of the car and machinery industries which are heavy users of steel.
A more anecdotal example: I have a friend who runs two businesses. One of them is selling licensed Farberware products which are manufactured in China. He employs multiple people as it pertains to this business: a few sales associates; a few people to work in the warehouse; and a few people to do customer service, accounting and other administrative duties. He is an American employer who relies on Chinese goods to run his companies, so selling products from China creates some well paying American jobs. Just look at Amazon retailers for many more examples of people like my friend. A lot of small business owners won't be able to absorb or pass along the cost of increased imports which will certainly have an impact on blue and white collar American jobs as well.
If it wasn't his tax cuts, then the only other significant stimulus for job creation must have been his deregulation. That would really fly in the face of Keynesian economists saying that government fiscal policies drive the GDP and not the people themselves when left unrestrained.
#1 deregulation and tax cuts are not unique to Trump in general, so I don't know why he's given credit for those "policies" which have been implemented many times before - they are capitalist positions the GOP has been touting for eons, and Trump is more of a populist and protectionist than a free market capitalist. #2 Trump's job record is not unique; there are many examples of better growth on record than Trump's. You might find this interesting, although I don't like attributing job creation overall to a president anyway.
While we can't look to the beginning of Obama's tenure for reference given he inherited a legitimate economic crisis, Obama's last three years of job growth all beat Trump's best year. However Obama extended the Bush tax cuts and lowered corporate taxes, and made manufacturing taxes even lower. Remind me to add that tidbit to the "Obama the Socialist" thread.
Unfortunately a lot of the jobs created recently are low-wage and have no employment benefits. They may have increased slightly under Trump given the tightening labor market (I'll have to look that up) though I think wages actually began to backslide last year pre coronavirus. If you are for saving the livelihood of the US worker through protectionist interventions, how do you feel about labor unions?
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@Speedrace
There's something fishy with the Supa thing. I think there's more to that than meets the eye
There is at least 1 role we know of that allows players to post after death (tree stump). Why do you think it's fishy?
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@Speedrace
Yes - I said I wasn't gonna post much in the DP, but then I was gonna answer your question about why I was voting Intel. However I was like "fuck it" and literally the second after I posted it just decided I didn't want to and deleted it probs because I was a bit frustrated, and didn't feel like contributing anything further. I honestly had no idea it was against the rules to delete a post until you asked though that makes total sense (I'm not used to DART). But for the record that is the only post I've ever deleted (SirAnon mentioned he saw another). I did edit a typo from one of my other posts as well. Just being honest now that I went back and read the rules - oopsies. I'll take whatever punishment Pie may want to give me though I posted the exact post I made 100% as written this day phase. I've already given my reads though I doubt this warrants a mod kill lol my b.
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