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@Speedrace
Last DP you asked what Intel did that was scummy. I was going to reply to you but decided not to cuz I didn't feel like participating in the DP anymore after I said I wouldn't post much DP1. By the time I saw your question back to me, the DP had ended so I answered in this DP what I was going to say and why.
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@Speedrace
I've already answered your question! Why do you keep harping on me? Do you scum read me?
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@WaterPhoenix
Nvm I just saw your role claim. Well I agree you and Intel are probs on opposite sides, so he's very likely the lynch. I don't think we have to rush though. Would still like a bit more input and maybe even another claim assuming there's 3 scum.
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@WaterPhoenix
Why do you think Intel is scum? I feel like it's him or SirAnon. For some reason I assume Ayyantu, Luna or Speed would be the TP if there is one but meh who cares. I kinda hope there's just a 2 or 3 person mafia team.
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@Lunatic
Oops I missed that in #69. Well I could see you or Speed being scum just because (lol) though I'm starting to think it'd be more likely to be Speed between the two of you. However I'm wary of Ayyantu cuz he said he can't be visited at night like I said. But I agree with you in not wanting to waste energy thinking about TPs.
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@ILikePie5
@That1User
@Crocodile
Has intelligence defended himself in anyway shape or form
He claimed to be an empty bottle from Zelda, the Jailkeeper, and to have used his ability on Bearman (that1user). that1 verifies he was RB. @that1 you need to ask the mod what language would be used in a Jailkeeper vs. Role Blocker situation. This is something I am going to clarify in each game when I mod cuz it's come up before. If we can verify he's the Jailkeeper we can move along. I can't see Intelligence coming up with that character so it might be fake from the mod. It seems to go along with Greyparrot's character of sorts. Croc, do you have any other reads/thoughts?
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@That1User
Luna is either deflecting TP as TP, genuinely worried of TP as town like you, or wants to get out another TP
I assume that he brought up the possibility of a TP because I explicitly asked him about it in post # 100. But yeah this is why I hate TPs (cuz they can play pro town and still win most of the time, making them hard to detect).
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@WaterPhoenix
i never supported a bearman lynch
You said in post #299 that you thought there was at least 1 mafia on the Intel wagon. The only people voting for Intel last DP was me, Greyparrot and Bearman. Therefore I expected you to push a lynch on or pressure one of us (Bearman would have been the only one to make sense). Are you gonna pressure that1user or myself now?
To be fair you also said you read Croc and Ayyantu scum last DP, so it looks like you're just one of those players who goes around asserting so and so is scum on a whim without having anything to back it up / it not being meaningful. Otherwise we'd have to hold you to those 4 scum reads and we already know Supa was scum, so.
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@SirAnonymous
Because I don't have enough experience or skill as town to even know when pressuring for more claims is a good idea.
So you're saying you don't know how to play the game? Explain how anyone is ever supposed to read you town if you're only going to jump on other people's analyses.
I don't think his claim itself is suspicious
You were mafia with Intel last game. Do you think he came up with his role as a fake claim? Pie said he'd give scum either one fake character OR role claim. So if Intel is scum, he (or Supa) would have had to come up with a role or character to fit that role block trait. Could you see Intel coming up with that and/or do you recognize any trends or traits about how Intel plays as scum vs. how he's playing here? This a way you can contribute to the game without having "a lot of experience or skill." Quite frankly that sounds like a cop out reason for not participating so I'ma keep my vote on you for now.
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@That1User
Can confirm Intel is jailkeeper, I was role-nullified, Intel said he jailed Bear, I'm Bear's replacement.
He could also be the mafia role blocker but yes this is helpful information. Thank you. Have any thoughts so far?
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@Lunatic
Could be another scum though. If so id guess sir or speed
I've had a town read on Speed since last DP, but again with TPs it's hard because they can theoretically play pro town and toward their win con at the same time.
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@SirAnonymous
You shouldn't have to claim with only 1 vote on you, and like I said you're probs town. But considering you don't take a position on anything there is no way to read you. In your last post to me you said "That makes a lot of sense. Good catch with Water's logic. I hadn't stopped to consider the implications of that post." All of that is neutral and so is virtually every post you make.
I mean I asked whether or not we should pressure for more claims. Granted I had tagged Lunatic in the post asking that question, but you replied to my other post where I tagged Speed. Why wouldn't you feel compelled to respond to a general question I had about the game? Why not give your opinion on who, if anyone, you want to pressure or vote for? Do you have any thoughts on Intelligence's claim? You don't give your opinion on anything so a claim might help get a read on you. However I'd be willing to waive that if you give some analysis or input of what you'd like to do this day phase.
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I'm town. Speed is town. Croc is probs town.
Bear (that1user) and water are harder reads but probs town.
I think Ayyantu and Lunatic are town or TP which I hate worrying about, because they could play pro town and still be scum. I'm wary that Ayyantu doesn't want to be targeted by any night actions, and I don't like that Luna suggested there are only 2 scum (and that it's definitely Intel). Sounds like he was trying to hurry the game along and forgo more analysis. Also, if there's anyone that would pull some kind of gambit in bussing a teammate on DP1 it would be Luna so there's always the potential to be nervous about him. But if I worried about these two for now I feel like it could be a distraction. Keep this in mind if I die though.
Anyway that leaves Intelligence and SirAnon. I explained why I voted for Intelligence yesterday and I was open to pressuring SirAnon for a claim as well. Re: Intelligence's claim, does "an empty bottle from Zelda that can trap fairies" mean anything to anyone? I dunno if Intelligence would come up with this justification as Jailkeeper if he were scum. I'll have to think about it. Pie said he would give the Mafia either 1 fake character or role. I don't think he gave them 1x Messenger but maybe.
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@Dr.Franklin
and thats the issue? how did we get to this level and how can we reverse it?
Well that's the issue regarding the study I tagged. It analyzed the impact of the tariffs.
I'm not a fan of tariffs though I do think we should reconsider and renegotiate some trade policy.
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@SirAnonymous
I'll claim if enough people want me to, but I'm generally not a fan of claiming without a good reason.
I have my reasons. I dunno if they're good lol why don't you ask? What do you want to do in this day phase? You're probs town but it's impossible to read you. That's definitely a compliment though I could see how it might be a handicap in the future if you become a target for early pressure because of it.
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@SirAnonymous
VTL SirAnon for a claim
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@Imabench
The economy deserves to be the #1 issue
I understand with some people prioritizing their economic self interest (it would be interesting if someone made the argument that valuing money over human rights is immoral), but what I mean is whether or not it should be the #1 issue when it comes to looking at presidential candidates. There is little to no evidence that a president has a significant impact on the economy overall. To the extent that she does, I was asking which policies are most important to consider.
I agree with you re: the minimum wage being more of a state's issue and considering the president's impact on tariffs/negotiating with China.
I disagree that Covid was a bad thing for Trump. I'm not an expert but gut hunch says Trump could have absolutely used Covid to his political advantage. In times of crisis, people want a leader. All Trump had to do was say "We got this. We're Americans. We can do anything. We can beat this thing, and we're going to have the best numbers in the world. Here's what you got to do: Take the virus seriously. Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Limit gatherings. We are strong. Here's what we know about the vaccine, and here's what we're doing in the mean time." Instead he diminished the severity of the virus (I acknowledge the impact is relatively small, but hundreds of thousands of Americans dying is not insignificant) and allowed conspiracy theorists to run wild. He only knows how to measure himself by the stock market, so out of fear the market would panic if he acknowledged the virus he chose to disregard a lot of people's fears instead. I truly believe had he exercised a more balanced approach and better leadership style, instead of militant denial and laughing in the face of guidelines that some people in the suburbs or some elderly people would not have been as turned off. A lot of leaders and politicians are able to use crises to gain popularity. Rudy Giuliani is a good example of that.
I personally would gravitate towards any candidate who wants to nuke the tax code and replace it with a linear system that increases tax rate based on income
Only income? No other wealth considerations? I suppose the tax advocacy is another important thing to consider although Congress has to get on board with any proposal. For instance if Bernie were elected President over Biden in 2020, Bernie's plans wouldn't be implemented. That's what I kept trying to tell the Bernie Bros who were having a meltdown during the primaries. The Dems would have actually done a lot worse in other races if Bernie ran so probs not even close to anything he wanted would actually get done.
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@Lunatic
probably a done deal after intel is lynched but no reason to rush when everyone hasn't posted. Especially since it takes mafia 50 years to post night actions.
Why do you think the game is over after an Intel lynch? (Assuming he's guilty) do you think there are only 2 scum in an 11 player game? Doubtful.
How would you feel about getting another claim this DP? I kinda don't want it to end it this quickly though I'm fine with voting Intelligence (I got a nice lil POE going). I almost missed the DP though and it's only been like 12 hours over night lol. Good thing I woke up early this morning to "work out" a.k.a. play Mafia instead.
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@Speedrace
Last DP I was going to make a post about why I voted for Intel since people kept asking. He was my first choice for a claim for the following reasons:
I think like SirAnon, Intelligence has a play style that can be hard to read because his posts can be fluffy. Granted he took a strong position on Water in post #37, but it felt a lil too confident ("no scum in their right mind would out like this") almost as if he knows who scum is and may have even been playing cheeky. I could be reading into it. I've noticed that when mods host games, the following game they tend to sus the people who were scum in their last game so I'm wary of that bias in me. However in the last game Intelligence similarly kept prodding the day phase for activity and asking people to participate like he did here in post #67 and 68 where he would say "do something" repeatedly. To me that's a way to appear invested in the outcome of the game without actually doing anything yourself.
If you look at the posts that were made up until I entered the game in #70, it was just random convo and a lil back and forth about Ayyantu which I've already commented on. Intel made 5 kind of meh posts up until I signed on so that's why I voted for him. As the day phase progressed I could see voting for someone else, but at that point it's who I wanted a claim from and I don't like jumping from wagon to wagon unless it serves a purpose. I agree with your reasoning on voting for SirAnon and considered switching to him, but I think we could get more info by choosing someone else at this point.
I thought we could get some info by choosing Intel because water said at one point "there is at least 1 scum on Intel's wagon" when there were only ever 3 people on it: me, Greyparrot and Bearman. I could read GP town, I know I'm town and I wanted to see if water would maintain that position and push for Bearman's lynch if Intel appeared innocent (if not I'd question water on that). So in short I just thought Intel was the best person to get info from, but didn't want to make this post last DP because I said I wasn't gonna post much on DP1 and wanted to stick to it. It was frustrating that people wouldn't vote until the last few hours of the DP but I'm glad ya'llmoved on to Supa - he was playing sus. I gotta read a lil and give my feedback now.
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@Greyparrot
Why do you think the house went in a hard-right direction in 2020?
I'm not surprised the GOP flipped 9 seats in the House, with 7 of them being women (as I said I find it hilarious the party which pretends to hate identity politics has been touting how many gains they've made with female and minority reps). A lot of those seats went blue in 2018 only because a lot of people came out to vote against Trump. I was one of them. 2018 was the first time I've ever voted for a Democrat in my life, and my congressional district is one that switched from red to blue. This year with Trump being back on the ballot, I knew my district would go back to red. The GOP campaigned against The Squad to take back some House seats and it worked like a charm.
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@Greyparrot
Big foot has a California Drivers license and speaks fluent Spanish I will have you know.
¡Si Señor! What else did Alex Jones tell you? It's time for the sheeple to wake up.
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@Conway
I mean, are Republicans restricting the autonomy of these districts?
What do you mean by restricting autonomy?
Are Republicans infiltrating the DNC to make it more difficult for only their constituents?
In a sense. Consider that racial and ethnic minorities are statistically less likely to have photo IDs. They are also less likely to vote Republican. Similarly former felons are less likely to vote Republican. Ergo the GOP has an interest in mandating photo ID or restricting votes from felons, so those people who are more likely to vote Democrat do not have the opportunity to do that.
Another example: before 2020 most of the U.S. voted in person. However this year a lot of people did not want to vote in person due to coronavirus fears, and most people that were concerned were Democrats. So everyone knew Democrats would largely choose to vote by mail. Therefore Trump has pathetically tried to claim that mail-in ballots from states like MI or PA would be fraudulent because he knew they'd likely be votes for Dems. However he wanted all of the mail-in ballots from Arizona to be counted because they were likely to go in his favor. Arizona residents usually vote by mail and tend to vote Republican, so he didn't want to silence THOSE mail in voters -- he only wanted to silence and call "fraudulent" the votes he assumed would go against him.
Are the Democrats incompetent? I'd like to know what's going on here if anyone cares to explain.
I don't get what this rhetorical question is supposed to imply. If you're asking why some people can't get ID, I feels you, and I don't mind voter ID laws. But there are other ways the GOP tries to suppress votes as well.
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Trump inherited a growing economy.
If you look at the Federal Reserve Family Finance Report which details American earnings between 2016 and 2019, you will notice the income gap between the richest and poorest has declined for the first time in ages. From other sources you can see that median household net worth and income have also increased. So it's undeniable that we have had a relatively strong economy these last few years pre coronavirus. However considering Trump took office in 2017, the gains detailed in this report were clearly underway prior to Trump taking office. You can look back even a few years further and see how Trump's administration presided over the same upward trend the economy was already headed on during the Obama years.
For virtually each measurement, the trend lines continued almost seamlessly from the second half of Obama’s presidency into the first three years of Trump’s tenure. Average real GDP growth was roughly the same (2.6 percent) for the first 11 quarters under President Trump (ending September 2019) and for the last 11 quarters of the Obama administration. During the last two years of the Obama administration, annual median household income increased $4,800. This is three times more than the $1,400 increase during the first two years of the Trump administration despite a tax cut for the middle class -- which I'll get to in a moment.
So while most people acknowledge the president has little to nothing to do with the economy overall, we have data to back up the fact that Trump has not been some mastermind presidential businessman; he did not "turn the economy around" or do anything remarkable. He simply presided over a time of growth that would likely have continued heading in that direction anyway. I do think Trump sparked confidence with investors that led to some bullish gains, but a lot of those gains would have been erased at the first sign of trouble (in this case, Covid-19) as they always are with market ebbs and flows.
I also think it's worth noting that Trump has ripped Fed Chairman Jerome Powell a new asshole at every single turn and has done nothing but heap criticism at him while simultaneously taking credit for the booming economy.
It's dishonest for the GOP to credit tax cuts for gains during Trump's presidency.
The tax cuts not take effect until 2018. By that time, unemployment had already dropped, household incomes had already increased, and millions of new jobs had already been created if you look at the data. There has also been no measured relationship between the size of the tax cut companies received and their subsequent investments as far as I can tell.
Furthermore similar gains could have been made years earlier had it not been for an insanely obstructionist Republican Congress. Obama repeatedly tried to get Republicans to sign on to additional spending and tax cuts for the middle and lower class, but the GOP refused every single time. You had Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell, et. al insist that higher deficits were philosophically unacceptable and financially ruinous. Even when the Obama admin proposed a moderate stimulus plan in 2016 that would have targeted infrastructure, Republicans would not budge. However under Trump the GOP has presided over the largest two-year deficit in U.S. history outside of a recession with no care in the world. They've exposed themselves (again) as deficit frauds.
Trump's trade war has been detrimental to the U.S. economy, especially in some states.
As most people know, protectionism is often bad economic practice but great for politics, because it can rally enthusiasm from critical Rust Belt swing states that have large manufacturing sectors and have been hit hard by globalization. However a new St. Louis Fed study shows why this logic is misguided. The TLDR is that the U.S. manufacturing industries that more heavily rely on imported products (and are therefore subjected to import tariffs themselves) include Rust Belt states that specialize in these trade‐exposed industries, such as Michigan and Ohio which import a lot of aluminum and steel for their manufacturing sector. Michigan in particular was affected negatively by Trump's trade war. Estimates say that it has cost several hundred thousand jobs in this key swing state. The Trump administration was also forced to provide billions of dollars in new federal subsidies to farmers. So if we look at the explicitly DIRECT impact the President had on the economy, it would arguably be negative in the short term.
With that said -
- Everyone still says the economy is the #1 issue in America regarding presidential elections. Should it be?
- What should voters be considering when presidential candidates campaign re: economic policy proposals?
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@Conway
These people that republicans are supposed to be suppressing all live in democratic run districts...What do you have to say to that?
So if those people live in Democrat-run cities, they are more likely to be Democrat, yes?
That confirms states with strict voter ID laws (red states) are trying to disenfranchise Democratic voters within those states.
If they let more Democrats vote, perhaps Republicans would not have such a stronghold in those states.
But they don't want to count their votes. That's exactly the point.
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Voter ID laws are not racist, but Republicans know that people who have a harder time voting for whatever reason (i.e. they can't get off work, don't have time, don't have specific types of ID, are scared to risk their health during a pandemic, etc.) are more likely to vote Democrat, ergo they engage in suppressing votes whenever possible. Kinda sad that the GOP can only win by using a system that values minority rule and by limiting the number of votes they want counted.
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@Greyparrot
democrats rely on foreign meddling at the ballot box.
No, it's actually Big Foot that's doing the meddling. Get your facts straight.
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@Greyparrot
Why do you think the house went in a hard-right direction and will likely flip in 2 years?
In midterm elections, Presidents below 50% approval see their party lose an average of 37 House seats. Presidents above 50% approval see their party lose an average of 14 House seats. So statistically speaking Dems are likely to lose somewhere between 14 and 37 seats depending on Joe Biden's approval, and Republicans will probably need to win fewer than 10 seats to gain a slight majority in 2022. Since the 1950s, the presidential party has lost an average of 27 House seats in midterm elections. Ergo it's extremely likely the GOP flips no matter what. I could see a loss of 30+ seats as of now.
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@thett3
We got another precinct map out of Phoenix today and once again it showed Trump improving in Hispanic neighborhoods
I'll take your word that Exit Polls are unreliable, but increased Hispanic turnout in one city doesn't mean Trump has the support of most Hispanics across the country. I still haven't seen any evidence to that effect. Latinos are not a unified voting bloc and tend to vote per geographic location just like white people do. It also tends to be Latino men that support Trump and it's for similar reasons that white men love Trump: his disgusting personality lol. It's that brash, crass, in your face, IDGAF attitude that people find appealing which they have repeatedly said over and over when asked why they support President Trump, so pretending it's about policy is disingenuous IMO, especially since Trump has been so politically ineffective.
I think conservative media is a lot weaker than liberal media FOR SURE.
I'm not sure I agree that conservative media is weaker, but I wholeheartedly agree pop culture promotes socially liberal ideas. Thank god.
If you want a picture of what the economy under Trump was like for normal people pre-COVID, the most comprehensive source is the Federal Reserve Family Finance Report
It's undeniable that we had a pretty strong economy these last few years. One thing I think is interesting about the report you shared being from 2016-2019 is that Trump did not take office until 2017, meaning 33% of the data considered for that report isn't even applicable to Trump's presidency. I also think it's worth noting that Trump has ripped Fed Chairman Jerome Powell a new asshole at every single turn and has done nothing but heap criticism at him while simultaneously taking credit for the booming economy.
Regarding tax cuts, those did not take effect until 2018. So by that time, unemployment had already dropped, household incomes had already increased, and millions of new jobs had already been created per the report. Therefore it's not honest for the GOP to credit the tax cuts for any of those achievements. They were already underway and there was no measured relationship between the size of the tax cut companies received and their subsequent investments as far as I can tell.
Furthermore similar gains could have been made years earlier had it not been for an insanely obstructionist Republican Congress. Obama repeatedly tried to get Republicans to sign on to additional spending and tax cuts for the middle and lower class, but the GOP refused every single time. You had Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell, et. al insist that higher deficits were philosophically unacceptable and financially ruinous. Even when the Obama admin proposed a moderate stimulus plan in 2016 that would have targeted infrastructure, Republicans would not budge. However under Trump the GOP has presided over the largest two-year deficit in U.S. history outside of a recession with no care in the world. You really think they're going to continue that philosophy once a Dem administration is back? I don't but we shall see.
Police really do get away with some pretty horrific stuff and many police officers are trigger happy retards.
Almost everyone acknowledges that it is notoriously hard to convict a cop, and that unions + other systemic policies make it hard to get rid of bad cops. But nobody ever wants to budge on policy. I don't want to hear "of course we need to get rid of bad apples" ever again. I want to know what policy changes, specifically, are being promoted, implemented and enforced. I don't want to live in a society without police either (even though I was very much of the ACAB philosophy and still maybe kinda sorta am). I don't think any cop is blameless under the status quo because of the thin blue line / blue wall of silence, plus just the inherent nature of police business. I resent the fact that off duty cops can drive around going 90 mph on their cell phone with marijuana on them and nobody's going to think twice about it. Maybe that's childish of me but I watch too many documentaries and have had too many personal experiences and observations to let it go. Of course I think decriminalizing drugs would have a great impact on policing but I know you probably disagree.
Nike did their thing with Collin Kapernick in September 2018. Their stock price was in the $80 range back then. It's $126 now. Doesn't seem like conservative attempts to "Cancel" Nike were that effective.
Nick Sandmann spoke at the RNC and won a lawsuit for millions of dollars. His negative experience with the media did not usher him into obscurity, but instead promoted him to fame and fortune beyond his wildest dreams. How is he the poster child for Cancel Culture then?
it's clear that in the status quo [Conservatives] don't have this [Cancel Culture] power.
I have mixed feelings on this. Some conservatives I know are cheering the decline of NBA ratings since players have gotten "too political." Whether or not that's true doesn't matter so much as their perception that calls for NBA boycotts are working. They definitely TRY to utilize and implement Cancel Culture just as much as liberals. For instance conservatives go ape shit when Disney threatens to even hint that a character might not be straight. I mean Disney is still going strong of course, but conservatives absolutely act like whiney snowflakes who call for Cancellations over things they don't like. It's probs not as effective in part because it's hard to mount a PR campaign against liberal causes. What are they gonna say: "stop being so inclusive and uplifting!"
The way I see it, this election was repudiation of Trump as a person, for sure, but it was also a repudiation of the left.
Yeah, progressive policies are not very popular. There's also the possibility it was about maintaining a Republican check on Dems so they didn't hold all three branches of government. But more likely it was just the way the votes fell in those particular districts. As I said I live in the only Republican district of NYC. Nicole Malliotakis beat incumbent Max Rose which was not surprising. This has always been a very Republican district (fuck Staten Island, I hate that we're affiliated with them) but in 2018 a lot of Dems went out to vote and defeat Trump. It was the first time I've ever voted for a Democrat in my life. A lot of Trump supporters stayed home because he wasn't on the ballot. I knew the second Trump was on the ballot again this seat would flip back to the GOP. It doesn't really surprise me that Republicans won seats where they did. Democrats kept many seats in places Trump won in 2016, but will surely lose many in 2022. I think the average loss for the presidential party is about 27 seats in midterm elections. I do find it hilarious that the party which claims to loathe identity politics has been touting how they won House seats with a bunch of (intentional) female and minority candidates though. It might be true Republicans dominate the 2020s but I'd need to see what they do post Trump. I don't even know what their identity as a party is anymore without him.
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@Vader
I know I've been a bit more on Ayyantu in DP1 than normal, but it's so hard for me to shake this as noob town when he has played mafia before but is suggesting anti town things. Idk
I understand. He didn't say he was a noob though. He's been emphasizing that he isn't (which is obvious). So the question is could you see experienced mafia behaving the way he is? If the answer is yes then keep your vote. It's not a bad vote. I just don't think it's a good vote. But what do I know - I'm over here voting for a claim when apparently the SOP on DART is to only cast day phase 1 votes for death. Weird!
Like I said I'ma hang back. Tag me if ya'll need me to change my vote.
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@BearMan
I have a reason to believe Ayyantu is not scum, meaning I think that Intel is in the slightest bit scummy.
Why not Supa then? He's the one whose been obsessing over Ayyantu.
It's not enough to warrant a lynch.
I never said to vote Intelligence for death. I said why don't you vote him for a CLAIM?
Lol I'm going back into my hole and not posting anymore on DP1 until later. I can't stand when people play dumb and refuse to do anything. Good luck! Let me know when you're all convinced someone is scum. Tag me if you need me.
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@Stephen
Ok I will get right on that for you Danielle
Good. I hope you show the same enthusiasm for calling out BS fake news stories as you you do for sharing them for our "consideration."
Could you show me the evidence of "many people are ready and willing to take up arms against the "deep state" , and I can pass that on at the same time for you.
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@BearMan
I see. Why not vote Intelligence for a claim?
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@BearMan
tbh DP1 is one of the less useful DP in terms of gathering information.
You've already put 3 people in your lean-town pile. Or did you make that up?
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@SirAnonymous
It sounds like you're looking for "evidence" to justify a vote on the first day phase. Why? It's not a vote to lynch. It's a vote for a claim. DP1 requires players like me to move the game along by voting so players like you can participate by questioning why. Otherwise nothing happens. You're welcome :)
I decided Intelligence was the person I wanted to pressure for a claim after the first 70 posts were made. At this point there's been 100+ additional posts and you still haven't determined whose claim you want? How is that helpful? What exactly would compel you to vote for someone's claim DP1? When you commit to voting for someone I'll explain why I started with Intelligence and you can explain why you started with the person you choose.
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New Jersey also legalized marijuana which is excellent news. All states should legalize ASAP.
It's interesting that both you and thett have suggested Dems should move left while simultaneously acknowledging that moving left would cost them to lose.
I also think it's interesting that the party which claims to hate identity politics indeed banks on identity politics helping their candidates as well, i.e. Rubio.
I don't think anyone has any idea what will happen in 2022 yet. It depends on who's more motivated to show up to the polls when Trump isn't on the ballot.
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@Crocodile
why is intelligence scum
Did I say that?
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@SirAnonymous
Why are you voting for Intelligence?
Why are you not voting for anyone?
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I think it's weird you can wind up with like 20 points from all "tie" votes.
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thoughts?
My thoughts are Ayyantu is playing aggressively. He's not a noob. He's jumping to conclusions and speaking assertively with little to nothing to go on (very reminiscent of Mikal though I agree with 4 debates it's prob not him). And now he's asking for input from Lunatic which would be dangerous for scum to do unless they were scum buddies. I don't see a "new" player behaving this way at all as scum, so I think hyperfocusing on him is a waste of time. I believe the exchange about his read on Croc and I don't think his vote on Supa was omgus. I think Ayyantu doesn't know how to read Supa's persistent attention on him and neither do I. For now I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt and considering it novice scum hunting though we'll see how it goes. Keeping my vote on Intelligence.
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@Stephen
Yes I got that. I asked you what it is that would you like me to tell them.
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I just meant it would be nice if you told them that all of those things have been proven false, and that it's dangerous to promote those kinds of conspiracy theories with such flimsy evidence. It's irresponsible and immoral to be so careless with accusations like that given how many people are ready and willing to take up arms against the "deep state" for Donald Trump's lies.
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@Vader
It's true that Ayyantu voted for Water over a "satirical post" and threw out the idea of a mass claim, but #1 with little to go on that "satirical" post was a place to start - especially since noob scum tend to slip with "jokes" like that, and #2 it could have been a reaction test. In fact it probably was considering Ayyantu immediately dropped the idea of a mass claim (after saying he wouldn't push on it in the first place) and then pointed to Water's reaction to his FOS.
I'm pretty sure you mentioned the mass claim more times than he did at this point. You seem to be harping on it. I can't tell if you're innocently grasping at straws or if you're scum using legitimate points to FOS Ayyantu. I mean if you wanna keep your vote on him I totally get it, but he's clearly not a noob (I hope he's Mikal). One thing I hope doesn't happen though is a split vote count to the point of getting no claims. Fortunately the town seems more active this DP1 than in previous games so we've got time to think about it.
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Damnit. I misspelled sordid in my last post and it's too late to edit.
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@thett3
I don't think it would've destroyed the democratic party, may have even been better in the long term, but he would have lost this specific election.
If you acknowledge that Bernie would have lost in both 2016 and 2020, I assume you understand and agree with the DNC "rigging" the election against him for the good of the party then? I was so happy they did that in 2016 and even happier it was Democratic voters that handedly rejected him in 2020.
If non-whites are more moderate and the influence of non-whites is growing, should the party remain closer to moderate?
Of course leftists have more "star power" in culture.
I don't deny that leftists have more "star power" in culture; I deny that it's significant. Celebrities have the most clout with young people who notoriously do not show up to the polls. The most reliable voters are old people who couldn't care less about who Cardi B is endorsing. And if it's true that celebrities had a ton of sway then we wouldn't see Republicans being so dominant for so long. Obama was a centrist with a Republican Congress for the majority of his term. And then we got Trump whom every celebrity hates. Obviously "the failing New York Times" has more readers than Breitbart, but Steve Bannon made a very convincing case for how conservative media led to Trump's victory. Do you disagree with that?
I don't know just how much he improved but it was by a very, very significant amount.
Yeah I'm only going by exit polls. Can you explain how increased turnout in some places though means increased turnout overall? For instance if Trump got 100 more voters in Houston than he did in 2016, but 100 more Hispanic New Yorkers showed up for Dems in 2020 than in 2016, is that really Trump increasing the Hispanic vote? I haven't followed this closely.
Hispanics are swinging right because American politics are getting less polarized by race and more polarized by class.
Are they voting Republican because they're getting richer or poorer?
Someone made a good point that Trump was like chemotherapy for the GOP.
That's a great analogy. I think if Trump had not dog whistled to the alt-right on social issues, he could have been a DOMINANT force as president.
Renegotiating NAFTA was a very big deal. . . The economy, pre-COVID, under Trump really was EXTREMELY solid and low wage earners were finally seeing some improvements.
Not to have too much overlap in threads, but Democrats deserve credit for their role in trade reform.
I'd like to talk more about the economy. I agree the president has very little to do with it overall, but I disagree we can write off the statistics I provided if deferring to statistics at all. I wasn't giving numbers from 2008 when Obama took office; I compared the last three years of his presidency with Trump's first three years. The growth trajectory was basically the same.
And something I find interesting about the perspective "well at least Trump tried" is why would we not give that same benefit of the doubt to Dems who also failed to provide results? Trump failed to deliver on promises of manufacturing jobs. Thousands more people lost jobs at car factories in places like Michigan and Ohio after he took office, which is the exact opposite of what he said would happen. Why is Trump not accountable for this but other leaders would be? Why is it the fault of "Congress" when things don't get done if Trump is in office? Nobody had a more obstructionist Congress than Obama. The irony of this excuse is also touted by Trump's supporters regarding his response to Joe Biden in the debate: "If you had any good ideas, why not do them in the 47 years you were in Congress?" As if one person can get things done.
You said the economy was EXTREMELY solid under Trump, so again I will ask: how much did blue collar people's wealth really increase the last 4 years? Has your family got a lot more wealth? (I ask because you live in the midwest iirc.) More property? More assets? A significant increase in take-home pay? I think we can all agree Trump prioritized the stock market and Wall Street over "Main Street" which is fine but seems like a dishonest narrative from the people who pretend Trump has changed their lives. They're still poor. They still can't afford healthcare.
It sounds like you're trying to have it both ways in portraying Trump as some sort of guru who saved the economy, while at the same time knowing low-income earners and the working class did not improve their class status much if at all. The gap is still there and may have even been widened. Earning $2 more per hour is nice, but did the working class gain any substantial wealth at all?
A lot of stores in big cities boarded up their windows on the eve of the election, and it wasn't out of a fear of Trump supporters.
A lot of liberals I know applied for gun licenses before the election, and it wasn't out of fear of Biden supporters.
I acknowledge riots and protests have been problematic for big cities (and only big cities) which is why I don't agree Dems are indifferent to them. I think cities are in a tough spot politically. Just as conservative politicians cow tow to President Trump because their voters worship him, politicians who represent very liberal constituents have to actually represent those constituents by doing what they want so long as they are adhering to the Constitution. Consider Portland where people overwhelmingly voted for police reform. The cops are now suing the city because they don't like what the vast majority of voters have asked for. Who should prevail in this situation? It's tough.
It's also important to remember the riots did not occur in a vacuum. They were a response to (another) horrific murder by a police officer in a profession that routinely gets away with misconduct. Race aside, it is just an absolute fact that police unions are extremely powerful entities and have many tools in place that allow for the continued employment of "bad apples." Coupled with a perfect storm of other variables, there was violence this Summer but it was not something we expect to see every day or have seen since. I would be so much more sympathetic to the "we need law and order" position IF there was any type of meaningful change to be expected in policing. Instead there has been zero reform insofar as new considerations for police immunity and other protections across most of the country. It's like people keep saying "Democrats aren't being hard enough" on protesters, but not saying "Republicans aren't being hard enough" on cops. The protests are a response TO bad cops. I think if concessions were made to support getting rid of bad police, a lot of the defunding rhetoric would be abandoned.
ANTIFA is a different animal and belongs in the same category as those right-wing vigilante militias looking to kidnap politicians or whatever.
If you believe that the big tech companies are biased in favor of the right, we are so far apart that it's not going to be fruitful.
I didn't say they are biased in favor of the right - I said the staff's personal preferences are not relevant. The algorithms are generally designed to keep people engaged; not to promote a particular point of view. I cited six different studies proving there is no evidence of conservative censorship (unless you consider something like overt racism or conspiracy theories to be inherently conservative). But I agree we should probably drop this part of the discussion. There is no data to substantiate the misguided perception of "anti conservative bias." It's something that has been disproven over and over, and until someone comes forth with good evidence to validate this claim, it should just be ignored.
but what IS new is just how visible it is today.
The Salem Witch Trials, Jim Crow laws, interracial marriage bans, injustice against the LGBT community -- yeah good thing social media wasn't around to amplify a deep and sorted history of perpetual Cancel Culture by white right wing conservatives. Here is a woman fired for not wearing makeup. It would be an unproductive waste of time to get into the innumerable examples of unjust firings and Cancel Culture in all forms, but I disagree with your assessment that it is overwhelmingly coming from the left and wonder how you have come to establish that "fact." My guess is the slew of anecdotal examples that make headlines like the one you cited about the alleged white power sign. Those will dominate in the media because of their absurdity, and of course I find things like that to be completely ridiculous. But I don't find it any more egregious than firing someone for being gay which conservatives keep fighting for the right to do. I don't think it's much different than burning books, denying evolution or climate change in the classroom and promoting abstinence only sex education. That's censorship. That's cancel culture. Nike featured Colin Kaepernick in an ad and conservatives burned all their Nikes (lol) after Trump said the NFL should be cancelled as I said earlier. There is just nonsense all over.
Like I said I think where the left has dominated Cancel Culture in a problematic way is academia and throughout real attempts at intellectual discourse. I couldn't care less if Milo Yiannopolis is heckled out of some university. Silencing someone that is not being intentionally provocative though? That's shitty and it's a real problem. Again my issue with calling it a "leftist problem" is that it seemingly hand waives away all the times conservatives do it, and they do it a lot. I maintain when the President is asking for certain media personnel to be fired because they portrayed him unfavorably, and proceeds to tag the chairman of the FCC, it creates just as much if not more problematic Cancel Culture trends as unjustified blowback in the private sector. I take issue with people who champion the right to discriminate and who would be the first ones to demand boycotts and firings ("HAPPY HOLIDAYS? FUCK STARBUCKS") having such a yuge problem with trigger happy firings by liberals. It just annoys me.
I would feel much safer going to a Trump rally wearing a Biden hat than I would be wearing a Trump hat at a black lives matter rally--and so would you.
I dunno. Trump said he would pay the legal fees for people who "knocked the crap out of" hecklers at his rallies, and BLM rallies are mostly white liberals who don't scare me.
2024 will probably be a Republican blow out.
You think so? I hardly ever make predictions like this. I think it's too soon to tell. Who do you think some Republican frontrunners will be for POTUS?
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@Stephen
All the links you shared came from the same person on Parler. I assume you either follow them or follow someone who follows them.
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The state recognizes legal rights for humans at different stages of their development. I see no reason for a fetus to have any legal protections until viability. They have no other rights recognized by the state; I fail to see why the right to occupy another's body should be the only one.
The advent of artificial wombs is going to make the abortion debate even more interesting.
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@n8nrgmi
how do you have the audacity?
You're right 😬 Better keep those fingers crossed!
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@Greyparrot
Hey, what was the scandal? Did we ever find out? Also, what is Obamagate?
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@fauxlaw
#1 almost all of the ballots are counted, and #2 you don't need all of the ballots to be counted to project winners if the outstanding votes are mathematically incapable of changing the outcome.
For instance if Biden is winning NY by 100 votes and there are only 25 votes still outstanding, then even if every single one of the outstanding votes went to Trump, Biden would still win New York. That's how they're able to "predict" New York would go to Biden.
It's true what they say: common sense really is not so common.
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@Stephen
So I'm sure you've heard by now that the U.S. postal worker who claims supervisors asked him to back-date ballots immediately recanted his story and admitted it was a lie he made up the second they started to investigate it. I hope you say something to the people you follow who keep sharing those fake news stories you're posting here. It's dangerous to delude simple folk into thinking the election was stolen from Trump as part of a mass deep state conspiracy. You should tell them to stop.
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