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@coal
Danielle, if Zaradi is scum, then is TUF town?
I don't know - I haven't analyzed behavior/interactions yet because I've been focused on how incredibly anti-town Zaradi's actions were. I will say that if Zaradi flips town, I will probably scum read you because there is no planet in the universe where Zaradi's actions can't be read as definitively scummy. Only an informed mafioso looking for town cred later would try so hard to look for ways to justify it because it stands out as so blatantly illogical. Unless Zaradi has a history of engaging in ridiculous shenanigans like that as town (I think Lucky has a reputation for doing that? Not sure) then everything he did was anti-town, period.
Of course if he is scum, and he probably is, we will have to think about why you're doing this as well.
The fact that he has put forth lolz reasons to come at me (me taking a 90 minute break from the game) and has largely gone silent/just given up pretty much tells me he's scum.
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@coal
you are convinced he's scum based on how he reacted to what he seemingly understood was a power role claim made by a player he town read?
Yes. The only thing the mafia can do is claim to have a power role. Ragnar was pressured and claimed to have a power role. There was no reason for Zaradi to believe him, let alone risk making himself look guilty af if Ragnar flipped scum. "Lynch all liars" aside, he would have to justify fake claiming a power role which could have caused another town power role to out themselves. Had there been another town power role (which vanilla Zaradi wouldn't know but have to assume) they obviously would have called BS on Zaradi's fake claim and it would have caused massive confusion in the day phase. So there would have been no townie utility at all whatsoever to fake claiming. Oh, and the mafia didn't target Zaradi so obviously they didn't think he was the doctor.
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@coal
Zaradi as scum should have jumped on that wagon at some point.
So you're letting one thing you read townish outweigh the 3 anti-town things he did? This doesn't even make sense -- he couldn't have jumped on the Ragnar wagon after lying and sayin his role proved Ragnar to be town. Plus, if you believe he was a vanilla townie lying to draw the NK, then again he couldn't have jumped on Ragnar's wagon after saying his role confirmed Ragnar's claim.
At this point I agree you are trying too hard to justify his actions.
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@coal
What's the alternative world; he hammers Ragnar and the cop flips town?
He obviously would have looked scummy if he voted for Ragnar after he lied and declared his role proved Ragnar to be innocent.
Reading Ragnar town means positively nothing in day phase 1, and Ragnar wasn't participating much anyhow to have that strong of a read. So what you're saying is that Zaradi fake claimed a power role when #1 it was statistically likely that town had another power role that would have to out themselves to challenge Zaradi as a liar, and #2 he would risk himself and outing the one other town power role when he didn't know for sure if Ragnar was innocent.
None of that is pro town.
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I repeat: if Zaradi was vanilla, he had no reason to accept Ragnar's declaration of having a power role.
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@Zaradi
Where are you at? I'd expect you to be pushing me by now
Sorry I took a 90 minute break from the game lol.
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I don't think we should let Zaradi distract us at this point. Fake claiming a power role would be stupid because #1 there was likely another town power role (statistically) who would have to out themselves to call Zaradi a liar, and #2 if he was vanilla then he had no reason at all to accept Ragnar's claim as cop lol.
Zaradi is scum, let's get this over with.
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@Zaradi
So I'll give both of you two the same challenge I gave coal: find a post where I'm softing having a PR pre-ragnar softclaim. You won't be able to, because that wasnt my gameplan coming into the game.
You are setting up a false dichotomy in which you are saying that no soft claim prior to Ragnar's post somehow exonerates the anti-town nature of your fake claim what you did when it really has no bearing on anything.
Also, I object to vanilla's trying to draw the NK as anti-town. Vanilla's dying over a town PR is pretty fucking beneficial for town
It was in this case, because had there been another town power role (which statistically was likely) your fake claim would mandate they out themselves to call you a liar.
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@coal
f you two think I'm wrong about town-reading Zaradi, then explain why because I still cannot see how scum zaradi so blatantly and obviously puts himself in the line of fire to protect a townie who claimed a power role that, if scum, Zaradi would have understood.
This has been explained:
Ragnar claimed to be cop or mason. Either the mafia has a role blocker and knew Ragnar was the cop, or they have two goons and didn't know if Ragnar was claiming to be cop or mason.
At that point Zaradi claimed to have a role but would not specify which one. If he is town, there was zero incentive to do that, especially if he were the doctor and can't protect himself. He failed at protecting Ragnar and if he were town, it would just make him tonight's NK... so basically you're saying he helped out the town's only other power role which was himself. Fat chance.
If he is scum, there are 2 incentives to do what he did. Number one it could draw out the second power role to cc him which helps mafia win immensely (we could have easily been in a situation between lynching Zaradi or whoever cc'd having a role). Or number two there was always the chance that there wasn't a second role at all (with Ragnar being the only one) in which case Zaradi thought he'd have a role claim to fall back on. And that's the situation we seem to be in.
Right now his FOS on me are kinda lolz so I'm pretty convinced he's scum.
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@Lunatic
@sui_generis
@oromagi
@airmax1227
@Zaradi
Re: Your read on coal; Interesting. What do you think of his theory of zaradi trying to draw the night kill?
If Zaradi were a vanilla townie, he would be taking a huge FOS risk by claiming to have a role "to draw the night kill." In that case there was a good chance town had a second power role besides Ragnar (mason or doctor) and that person would have called out Zaradi's lie. So, the only reason for Zaradi to say what he did would be to draw out the other power role IMO. I don't think he was fake trying to draw the NK so I agree that logic by coal in post #60 is poor, and that's the only post of his I've read in its entirety.
I just don't see how Zaradi is innocent at this point. If it's true that coal is making excuses for Zaradi, we'll certainly have to consider that, but I didn't get that vibe from what I skimmed (key word: skimmed). However I noticed that he accepts Zaradi has been role blocked even though Zaradi didn't say that at all. Zaradi's general absence feels noticeably sus as well.
Zaradi, Sui and Max need to post.
@oromagi - I see that you agree Zaradi claimed something. What do you want to do about it?
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@Lunatic
If Zaradi is scum who do you think his partner is?
Behavior-wise I've read everyone townish at this point with the exception of Airmax and Oro, both of whom haven't posted much and whose play style I'm unfamiliar with.
If anything else, I would note that Sui sheeped me yesterday which in itself isn't scummy. However in Live Mafia when he was scum with Magic, I incorrectly tr Magic and he asked me 2x why I tr her, later admitting he would have used my misread on her to get me lynched. He could have been doing that last day phase regarding my initial misread of Ragnar, but who knows.
I am still thinking coal is VERY likely given the fact that Coal refused to scum read zaradi for his defense of Ragnar the same way he did me. In fact almost all of their interactions seem "weightless" like they are trying to bicker without any consequence.
To be honest I haven't read 90% of the content in coal's posts. I read him town early and figured it would be best to not get caught in the weeds of what he's saying, though I've paid attention to his reads. We've been on the same page. So far everything I've read that he said, I agree with. That did read a bit unusual at first, however, the fact that he didn't seize upon my behavior from last day phase means he still reads town to me. He could have easily rambled on and on about how scummy it was that I was demanding the other PR out themselves yesterday as you alluded to (I legitimately did not pay attention at all to the potential set up of two goons and only one PR, especially since Zaradi also claimed having a role). However you didn't do it in an opportunistic way when analyzing my behavior, and I just assume as mafia that's what coal would do to get me lynched also - obnoxiously point out how anti-town my behavior was yesterday. Instead I think he believes I never considered the potential of town only having one PR so both of your reactions to me this day phase read townish. I think as scum he would be trying to exploit this mistake of mine because it's low hanging fruit and he would take pleasure in bickering with me.
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Hmm... let's leave him with 2 votes and see what he says.
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@Lunatic
Now he can claim he did actually protect ragnar but was likely blocked.
He did not hint at all whatsoever that he was RB when he posted at the start of this day phase, which he would have had to do if it were true.
If the mafia had a RB, it would be more useful to role block Ragnar and night kill the doctor to get rid of him; then kill Ragnar the following night. It's not like Zaradi didn't out himself with a role yesterday which was called out multiple times. Mafia would know he was claimin doc by whichever set up their scum team is based on. So it would make no sense to kill Ragnar first, because with a dead doc they could just kill Ragnar the following day and know the town lost their only two roles. Per my last post, there is no way Zaradi is town imo.
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@oromagi
So u r theorizing “if I get shot” = PR/ doc. Yes?
No, he was claiming to have a role in order to defend Ragnar.
"I'm gonna throw this out there: if Ragnar's lynched today and I get shot tonight, I think there's strong merit to pressuring coal. Because holy shit I don't think I can say it any different way without hardclaiming."
At that point, Ragnar told us he was a cop or mason. Zaradi was soft claiming a role here. Zaradi being a doctor or mason were the only two options he could be claiming based on potential game set-ups. We now know the doctor can't self protect so the doctor, if there was one, would not have been on anyone but Ragnar who was the obvious night kill target (and Zaradi would have protected the COP if he were really the doctor). The mafia targeted Ragnar with no fear that Ragnar would be protected. Ergo mafia knew there was no doc. There is no way that Zaradi is town in my mind.
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@oromagi
Sorry about your mom. I'm an asshole. I forgot. Hang in there, ok? <3
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@oromagi
I still want post#.
I have answered this like 4 times already. He said it in POST 632.
Added:05.22.20 12:45AM
"I'm gonna throw this out there: if Ragnar's lynched today and I get shot tonight, I think there's strong merit to pressuring coal. Because holy shit I don't think I can say it any different way without hardclaiming." - Zaradi
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@Zaradi
If mafia had a role blocker, they prob would have role blocked Ragnar and killed someone else (assuming doc would be on Ragnar).
So I'm convinced there are two goons and no doctor which means Zaradi lied.
Because it takes 4 to lynch, I'ma vtl Zaradi to get him to 2/4.
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I actually tr Lunatic more now because as another town player I would think my behavior was scummy too. He did a good job explaining it without feeling opportunistic.
I wanna hear from Zaradi ASAP as well.
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@Lunatic
Btw @ Lunatic if I am scum, that would mean Zaradi really is the doctor and that scum either role blocked him or took the risk of not successfully killing Ragnar which I personally would not do in this game as scum -- it doesn't make sense since town is already 1 down one player (Objectivity). Scum knew there was no doc. Zaradi said nothing about being role blocked either and there's no one else scum would have role blocked since we all talked about Zaradi's breadcumb yesterday.
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@Lunatic
So why did Danielle say she thinks this is an all vanilla game if she thought as far as yesterday that Zaradi was softing the other PR?
I assumed that if there was a doctor, he would have protected the obvious NK target. coal reminded me a doctor could still be in the game and I thought about what Zaradi said. He literally threatened a hardclaim. Saying that at all and then claiming vanilla would make him definitive scum (unless he was trying to say he was lying to draw a NK, which I would not buy at all). So basically we have to wonder why he, an experienced player, would tell the mafia who the doctor was for absolutely no reason when they already knew who the cop was.
Side note: Is it not obvious that I'm not closely reading the OP? I never do. I'm notorious for missing things in the OP and being called scummy for what I overlook at times.
It would be easy for scum to make a case against me based on my confusion last day phase. Let's see if they do that.
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Also, if Zaradi was a doc that could self-protect, he wouldn't have said "if I get shot in the night" as if his death would reveal info. So we know he didn't self protect , that he didn't protect Ragnar, and we know that the mafia likely doesn't think there is a doc in the game or else they wouldn't have risked focusing on Ragnar anyway. Plus Zaradi didn't say he was role blocked. So either Zaradi is scum, or he is town that played so badly he decided to out a power role for no reason, specify which power role he had to the mafia (while town remains ignorant) for no reason, or claim some trick about how he tried to distract mafia by breadcrumbing a power role and not really having one... or something.
Thoughts?
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Without rereading DP1 Zaradi looks like a good target. The only role he can fake claim is doctor, but then he'd have to explain why he didn't protect Ragnar last night. He can either claim to have self-protected (which I wouldn't buy) or claim to be role blocked which is possible. Once again town is left wondering why the fuck power roles would claim anything at all about their roles UNLESS they were going to use it as a defense under pressure, or strategize how to use their role and confirm them.
Zaradi breadcrumbed a power role for no reason and Ragnar specified which role he had for no reason. What was the point of saying you didn't want to hard claim, Zaradi? Wouldn't that literally tell the mafia who the doctor was (assuming we have one) based on the info Ragnar gave? It would either needlessly give info to scum, or if you were scum and knew you didn't have a role blocker, let you think you can fake claim doc. So right now I'm thinking you are the best focus, but maybe I'll feel differently after rereading dp1 which I'll probably skim tomorrow or something.
Does the OP explain the order of night actions? I'm too lazy to read a ton atm.
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@Zaradi
you didn't answer me the first time I asked this, so I'mma ask this again: walk me through where I've bread crumbed I had a PR.
You asked this to me last day phase and I answered you. In post #632 you said:
"I'm gonna throw this out there: if Ragnar's lynched today and I get shot tonight, I think there's strong merit to pressuring coal. Because holy shit I don't think I can say it any different way without hardclaiming."
Why don't you just hard claim now.
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@Lunatic
Are you uh, quitting?
No, that would be a dickish thing to do to Lucky, but I probably won't defend myself aggressively.
I thought Ragnar would survive the night with a doctor on him. Now I see the whole game is just vanilla townies since there's obviously no doctor and two goons. To be honest I didn't even see that as a potential set-up option. Believing there was a doctor or another mason drove my behavior last DP entirely. So now I'm going to have to reread day phase 1 knowing that mafia knew there was no doctor and try and figure out how they would have behaved/reacted to me knowing that, which I'm not really in the mood to do tonight. Maybe tomorrow.
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Like I said, a game with all vanillas doesn't interest me at all.
Let me know if you guys play Live tonight and I'll be there.
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Oh yay I forgot I was on hold. How many people usually sign up for games on here? The one I have ready is probs too big for a standard DART game.
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@Lunatic
btw I am not jumping to conclusions about ragnar. With what he said, I feel it's 100% a bad idea to lynch him. The harm of him being lynched unnecessarily as town outweighs the risk of letting him live an extra day or two just for him to in-evitably die when it comes to fruition that he was lying, if indeed he is. I am not even sure his behavior should be accounted for in this scenario, bar him outright admitting he is scum.
This is what you said: basically that anyone who claimed a power role (literally the only thing scum can do during the day phase) should be ignored because they'll eventally be found out...? This does not sound pro town. No questioning at all? Weird.
Anyway, the dp is about to end and I'm gonna shut down my work computer too at that. So I'll be back for Live Mafia soon.
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@Lunatic
Just to be clear, Ragnar basically said "I have a power role" which I understand why he would have to do... but you believed him with no questions asked. Am I remembering that correctly? Why did you automatically accept that when that's what every scum being accused is going to have to do in a game like this?
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@Lunatic
The reason being that I (as well as zaradi) thought it was obvious that ragnar was claiming a power role and pushing for information was scummy? You are absolutely unable to see why a townie would do that?
You made a show of it ("If people can't see why I'm unvoting I'm not gonna spell it out.") I have no idea why Ragnar specified which power role he had in the first place. That was completely useless because he didn't even ask anyone to confirm him. If he's town, he could have allowed scum to think he was cop and make them sweat it out -- make them think there was a doc protecting him, who knows. Instead he just said he had a power role and expected everyone to believe him, accept it and move on with no questions asked. The fact that you accepted it so easily is sus. If Zaradi is a mason or doctor, that explains why HE accepted it easily. But there was no reason for you to unless you were trying to make a show out of not pushing to "mislynch" Ragnar as you declared. Now you're buddying up to Zaradi. I just don't town read you.
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@Zaradi
The fucking depressing thing I can't even townread this AtE, which I normally do, because I can see both town!lunatic and scum!lunatic getting pissed off for being lynched for things that he doesn't perceive as scummy.
Yep. I've done the same lol. There were times when I was scum yet flipped out at poor town logic. I think that's what's happening here: TUF genuinely thinks we have a bad reason for FOSing him but he's probs still scum (and the reasons aren't actually bad).
The only people I'm not town reading are the inactives (Airmax an Oro) plus Ragnar I guess, though I'm willing to entertain Ragnar's innocence more now. That still makes TUF look scummier though. I'd like to NL or vtl TUF so that's probs where my vote will stay. Fortunately I'll prob be done with work before 8 but definitely not before 7. Magic and I are looking to play in the Live Mafia game tonight if you are around.
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@Zaradi
I hate your answer. If you look at 662 where you sayI dunno if Lunatic hinted at having a role though (Zaradi did)that's time stamped as posted eight minutes before you posted 663 where you sayI just remembered this post. If you're the mason, say so. If you're not then I have no idea why you would say this.So I highly doubt this was the reason you had at the time of writing 662. What was that reason?
That is exactly the reason. I remembered you saying you had a role and then it took me 8 minutes to find the post apparently.
Anyway I really can't read all the following posts after this cuz I'm on work calls for a little while longer but this actually verifies my thought process so thanks.
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@Lunatic
You scum read coal and he is my strongest town read. Not tunneling me is the only way he isn't playing to his/a town meta. And obvs I know I'm town so at this point it seems like you aren't doing anything pro town. I haven't done the math so I dunno if a NL is in town's best interest today. I'm fine with a NL but if lynching is preferable, I would pick you (for aforementioned reasons) or an inactive and that's just annoying. Oro needs to post since he "checked in." G2G for now.
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@Zaradi
You said:
I'm gonna throw this out there: if Ragnar's lynched today and I get shot tonight, I think there's strong merit to pressuring coal. Because holy shit I don't think I can say it any different way without hardclaiming.
I am going to be extremely busy for the next few hours and won't be able to post. I'm fine unvoting Ragnar because I assume mafia will NK him tonight.
Vtl Lunatic because it's either that or NL and I'll let you all decide. I'm not sureI'll be back before 8:30 pm... let me know if LiveMafia is happening tonight plz.
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@Lunatic
Also what sense does it make to force the masons partner to out as well DP1? Would a genuine townie behave like this? How does forcing this information out at all help the town? This is what both Danielle and Coal have been doing.
Because Ragnar has been playing like trash and confirming him town would get me to stop focusing on how anti-town he's been playing. If he's town it would have been nice to not have to worry about his shit game play over the last 48 hours.
If you think there's more utility in confirming someone else town another day, fine, because now that Sui and Oro have confirmed they aren't masons they can't fake cc it later. You, Airmax and Zaradi can though. Noted.
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So you've basically admitted that you lied straight up about me not focusing inactives lol.
No, I didn't lie and I clarified to you what I meant. You hadn't focused on inactives after pressure on Ragnar started to build and instead focused on me and coal which seemed convenient because we were the two most active (only people) talking. Stop wasting my time focusing on minutia like this.
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@Lunatic
In context of a normal game? Maybe, but not here. This is an open set up, which means basically they are two innocent townies when they decide to out. Getting them to out early in DP1 is just handfeeding them to mafia. Why would you want that if you were town?
MAFIA ALREADY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE THEY OUTED THEMSELVES. RAGNAR CLAIMED A POWER ROLE. If he is town he literally narrowed down which role he has (mason or cop) for no reason and only the mafia knows if he's telling the truth. So he gave mafia definitive info and us nothing but speculation, especially with inactive players.
And then Zaradi said "don't make me hard claim" to coal as some type of veiled threat. What an utterly useless and not remotely slick breadcrumb or hint. If he's claiming he has a power role and Ragnar is town, then Ragnar and Zaradi outed themselves as power roles to scum while the rest of us still have no idea if they're telling the truth or not.
You want to accept Ragnar's soft claim and keep the other mason/role hidden for what exactly? If Ragnar is town he'll be dead during the night. Cool. Then tomorrow we still won't know who the other confirmed townie is. Cool. I don't see the point of this at all and think you need to watch your tone when speaking to me. It's not my fault I don't speak retard.
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@Lunatic
The fact that their heads show "Ragnar is scum, and Lunatic not wanting to lynch him means he is scum too 100%" Shows how open minded these two are being.
I explicitly said I wasn't certain you were scum so the "100%" quip you literally just made up. No need to be dramatic. I said you called Ragnar a mislynch in post 644 which you could only know for certain if you were scum or a mason. I then asked if you were a mason multiple times, so no I am not tunneling you. I am trying to confirm Ragnar because if he is town then he's going to be killed tonight regardless. Why not confirm him for me so we can focus on someone else and not wase time/mislynch today?
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@Lunatic
Okay where did I say that he was a definitive mislynch?
In post 644 you said I was scum reading you for not helping to "mislynch"Ragnar. How do you know he is a mislynch? The only way you could know that is if you're a mason, doctor or scum.
You have mentioned inactives throughout the game, but at this juncture you're focusing on coal and I. Personally coal is my strongest town read and it's not even close. If he is mafia I'll be shocked.
I'm leaning town on Zaradi after he said he might be forced to "hard claim" which was a useless comment unless he was alluding to being a mason or doctor (to confirm Ragnar). I have no idea why people with power roles are claiming to have them and then not want to discuss how they can be utilized to help the town. Right now the town has NO IDEA if these people are fibbing but mafia does. So mafia gets solid info from these dumb little breadcrumbs while the rest of us are left to speculate. If you're going to claim a power role then LET'S AT LEAST USE IT AND MAKE IT USEFUL. At least let us confirm people during the day phase now that so many mistakes have been made (if Ragnar is in fact town). Otherwise Ragnar's role is completely and utterly useless and he'll just be killed during the night anyway. Cool.
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@Lunatic
I really think scum is among Ragnar, Lunatic, Oro and Airmax. If in fact Ragnar were proven to be mason by someone confirming him, my scum pile would be cut to 2 or 3 people and I wouldn't be aggressively pushing a potential mislynch today.
Right now you're saying we have two potential people who can be confirmed town but we don't want to confirm them lol how stupid. Especially if the mafia kills Ragnar tonight. Then his role would have been a complete waste and the other mason would be useless too. I truly don't get this line of thinking at all.
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@Lunatic
Getting the mason to confirm is beyond stupid.
100% disagree. It confirms Ragnar is town and confirms another person as town so they aren't mislynched. This helps town narrow down the scum pool.
Literally the only point of the masons is to confirm each other. Otherwise they are utterly useless vanilla townies. Staying quiet at this point doesn't help them and it doesn't help town (especially if Zaradi is the other mason... he practically spelled out having a power role). Who gives a shit if claiming mason puts a target on their back for a NK? They have completely useless roles anyway. They don't do shit during the night. The whole point of their role is to be confirmed town so they aren't lynched during the day. That's it. Unless you're saying they can claim mason later in the game to prove themselves town. That only works if Ragnar is lynched/town confirming there's another mason in the game in the first place.
If you aren't scum then you're playing dumb. I'm very comfortable lynching you or Ragnar today but my vote will stay on Ragnar.
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@coal
@sui_generis
Ragnar has 2 votes (me, Oro) and we need 5 by 7:10 pm. Hopefully Zaradi posts by then to say whether or not he is a mason. One of you should vote Ragnar so that he's at L2 if Zaradi doesn't confirm him and we need to vtl.
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@airmax1227
@Zaradi
I don't think Airmax is going to post before 7:10 pm.
If Zaradi doesn't say he is a mason, we should assume statistically that Airmax isn't and vtl Ragnar today.
Zaradi or Lunatic claiming mason is the only scenario where we shouldn't lynch Ragnar.
If there is a cop/doctor or some other TPR, keep quiet, lay low and just make sure Ragnar gets lynched.
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@Zaradi
I'm gonna throw this out there: if Ragnar's lynched today and I get shot tonight, I think there's strong merit to pressuring coal. Because holy shit I don't think I can say it any different way without hardclaiming.
I just remembered this post. If you're the mason, say so. If you're not then I have no idea why you would say this.
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@oromagi
But that was yesterday. I wonder what about the utility of soft-claiming mason without confirmation but maybe that's addressed as I catch up
To recap, Ragnar said the mafia has a role blocker meaning he is soft claiming cop or mason. If he were soft claiming cop, I would imagine he'd outright claim and ask the doc (who is still hidden) to be on him tonight so he could investigate. This helps town by keeping him alive today and doing an investigation at night.
He didn't ask for that though, so we are to assume he is claiming mason. Nobody else said they are the other mason. Airmax and Sui still have to confirm they are not masons. If neither claim mason, Ragnar is scum.
In that case we should look at Lunatic for aforementioned reasons. He actually declared Ragnar would be a "mislynch" in post 644. He seems to not want to lynch Ragnar. So either they're scum buddies, or on the off chance that Ragnar IS in fact town, there is no way Lunatic would have known that let alone have the audacity to declare that unless he is scum.
In a world where Lunatic was the other mason or doctor, he would have confirmed Ragnar to avoid a mislynch (and confirm himself town) or he would have recognized Ragnar was the cop because he is the doc. Lunatic would have suggested Ragnar investigate at night and the doc be on him. I dunno if Lunatic hinted at having a role though (Zaradi did) so I just find Lunatic's behavior very sus throughout this whole thing.
But either way Ragnar is the focus until/unless someone confirms him as a mason. IF there is a doc, they should of course keep quiet but I doubt we have a cop and doctor. In that case, we would be figuring out how to make those roles work for us strategically rather than draw useless "clues" from the few active players. I've already given Ragnar the chance multiple times to claim cop and ask the doc to be on him but he hasn't.
So he's claiming mason and nobody has confirmed him. That's where we're at. We need to lynch him today if he isn't confirmed by anyone.
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@oromagi
Anybody want to give a summary while I read up?
Ragnar soft claimed mason but no one is confirming him. If you are a mason just respond by saying so ASAP so we can move on.
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@Barney
How many times now have you asked whomever the other power role is to out themselves? Doing so would tell the mafia exactly who to kill.
Oh, just to clarify on this point - I'm only asking the mason to out themselves because that is the point of the role (confirming the other mason) if in fact masons are the power roles. Otherwise, per your own soft claim you are saying that you're the cop in which case I do NOT want the doctor to out themselves. However it begs the question of why you wouldn't just claim your role and investigate at night with the doc on you. This leads me to believe you don't actually know which town roles are in the game. I think you're scum.
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@sui_generis
@oromagi
@airmax1227
If Sui, Airmax or Oro don't confirm Ragnar as a mason, then we should lynch Ragnar today.
He is soft claiming mason but no one is confirming him. I would imagine if Lunatic were the other mason, he would realize that staying quiet about it now (with Ragnar so close to being lynched before) would be stupid as it wastes the utility of a mason role. The whole point of the masons is they can confirm each other as town. By wasting this ability they are effectively making the entire town vanilla and allowing us to mislynch Ragnar when he can be confirmed. Again, confirming the other mason is the entire point of the role.
So either Ragnar is scum LYING about being a mason, or the other mason is inactive. I'm tagging the people that need to post ASAP.
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