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@Bullish
I am not "confirmed vig." In that game Solon played and was replaced in. Solon could have been vanilla or vig.
This is what I was alluding to when I said "there are holes in oros theory that I won't point out". I was kinda hoping you were vanilla this game and scum would not notice this detail and waste a NK on you thinking you were vig.
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Forget the characters which are already safe due to being unique and probably themeless.
Only just now noticed this from GP. Makes him look a bit better in my eyes due to the fact that luna made it clear in the OP that there is a theme and also made it clear in the OP that he made it clear to the scum in their PM that there is a theme. GP saying 'it is probably themeless' presents us with a few possibilities:
1) GP as town missed this in the OP
2) GP as scum missed this in the OP and also missed this from luna in his PM and also missed this from his scum buddies in whatever venue they are given for communication
3) GP as scum is clever enough to subtly fake ignorance on this topic.
Of these possibilities number one seems far and away the most likely to me.
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@Greyparrot
Not sure how that would make you suspect me if you were town but okay.
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@Greyparrot
Are you zaradi's scumbuddy?
Yeah, you caught us. Good job GP.
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Speedrace - Displayed a similar reaction to Singularities fluff as two of my other town reads.
To clarify, the two people I am referring to here are bullish and siranon
ILikePie - Scum read on GP seems natural and u manufactured
Should read "unmanufactured"
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Reads (I forget who replaced siranon and supa so will use original names in all these RFDs).
TOWN
Disc - Claimed a confirmable role. An unblockable confirmable role no less so he won't be able to use the "oh I can't confirm cuz I was blocked" excuse like last game. Oh wait, he was town that game too.
Oromagi - Scum knows that I am town and therefore knows that my role claim is real so oromagi had no reason to continue posting between the time I made my bluff and the time I revealed I was bluffing.
Bullish - Early advocation of popcorning (something I had not thought of) and willingness to claim early themselves despite not technically needing to. Also according to oros theory bullish might possibly have a confirmable role. There are holes in this theory that I won't go into but behavior still reads as town to me.
SirAnon - Early miller claim is a null tell in my experience. I have seen it from both town and scum. However his early distress at the anti-town fluff posting seems similar to his early distress at townies randomly revealing DP 1 last game. That distress made me town read him very strongly and I turned out to be right so I feel comfortable town reading him for similar reasons this game
Speedrace - Displayed a similar reaction to Singularities fluff as two of my other town reads.
drafterman - Clear support for the obvious town bloc could easily be scum trying to blend in but is at least enough to put him higher on the list than the others here.
ILikePie - Scum read on GP seems natural and u manufactured (whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant to my read on pie). Could be scum looking for an easy mislynch, could just be a townie saying whatever comes to mind.
Supadudz - gets a bit more credit for the fluffing incident than singu simply because singu started it. Still looks bad on him from my pov.
Singularity - Apparently this is wylted, which I can totally see now that it is pointed out. Coming from anyone else getting super worked up over the political sim thing would give a slight scum for the possibility that it was a ploy by scum for an excuse to fluff but knowing it comes from wylted makes it a bit worse in my book. Describing an action taken by a person on the internet as 'evil' is something wylted would do. Derailing a mafia game to do so as anything other than an overt scum strategy is not. I wasn't in the discord though, maybe there is a good reason for whatever happened to elicit such a strong emotional reaction. If so wylted would be the type to display such an action so, eh...
Waterphoenix - No significant contributions that I recall. I am usually down to lynch WP any time he is not confirmed just for the PoE. It is impossible to read someone that always stays on the periphery and never takes the lead on anything.
Greyparrot - Examples of GP full claiming early as scum in recent games have been offered as a response to the "GP always full claims as town" idea but all that means is that if GP did claim it would be a null tell not a town tell. In order to say that GP not claiming is a null tell rather than a scum tell we would need to see examples of GP not claiming as town in a recent game. Until then, scum read by meta.
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@oromagi
You are still alive and your profile indicates you are still online. Please popcorn someone.
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@Greyparrot
@drafterman
@oromagi
Okay. That is all we fucking wanted.
I really am the executioner, I did not actually tell lunatic to end the DP yet though. That was a bluff to make you stop stalling the town. Popcorn someone, oro.
The DP is not over yet people
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@drafterman
@oromagi
Marauder was a user on DDO
That isn't a full claim then. Oro you are already dead we might as well see your full role before it becomes official.
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@oromagi
Idk what marauder means. If you are town paste your PM like I did so that town has as much info as possible going into the NP. Hurry before the mod closes the DP.
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@oromagi
If you are town we need your full claim before lunatic officially closes the DP.
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@drafterman
@oromagi
Very well. Lunatic specifically said that copy pasting role PMs is allowed so...
You are Geographia’s role from Subutai’s Hindu mafia. Your role: Geographia - You are Ganesh. Known as the "remover of obstacles", you are able to eliminate anything that stands in the way of your desires. Therefore, you are the 1x Executioner. During the day, if any player has more than half the number of votes necessary to lynch them, you may choose to have them die, ending the Day Phase as if they were actually lynched.
http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/104680/
I am sending lunatic the lynch order now. You be dead oro, might as well come clean.
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There is no reason to VTL someone unless you want to lynch them immediately, therefore if DD VTL'd me earlier then he must have wanted my immediate lynch earlier.
-oromagi 2020
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@drafterman
I feel comfortable ending the DP with an oro lynch now assuming we have at least a few posts from everyone since the mass claim started and which I will check now to see whether this is the case. What do you think of just lynching oro right now?
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@drafterman
This isn't a math problem, it is a linguistics problem. Necessarily there are a limited number of games no matter what the scope is because there aren't an infinite amount of games anywhere. The decision to qualify the statement with the word "limited" suggests a relatively small sample. Otherwise the statement is just a pointless observation.
Unless he knows something we don't know about how lunatic chose the games. Something he figured out that we weren't able to because we lacked certain information.
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@drafterman
Point one is completely moot because as I told GP counterclaiming is not the point of the mass claim anyway and I am okay with scum giving their real characters since lunatic made it obvious that characters are alignment themed in a way that town might be able to figure out in later DPs.
Point 2 and 3 make sense though so you have me somewhat convinced. Bit too late now though I guess since most people fucked up the popcorn and claimed out of turn so now claiming game is the same as a full claim for most people.
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@oromagi
I have found a few more examples of games my username was in, a couple within our subset and a couple without.
Please clarify on the meaning of the word subset in this context.
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@drafterman
Found it. Post 184.
Just my personal opinion of course but there it is.
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@drafterman
I wonder if it would have been better to claim the games rather than the players.
I don't think so personally, for reasons I gave to oro when he suggested such.
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I don't like this "safe claim" tangent by grey.
What are safe claims designed to do? Help scum not get caught by theme analysis and also help them not get caught by getting counter claimed.
Was the purpose of the mass claim to try to catch scum with theme analysis? No.
Was the purpose of the mass claim to try to catch scum by counter-claiming? No.
Therefore is whether scum may or may not have gotten some form of fake claim at all relevant? No.
I don't think GP is actually unable to see this for himself. I really do think he is scum and trying to argue against it to help his scum buddy oro (who I am pretty sure we are supposed to policy lynch now for stalling the popcorn to buy his team time to research up fake claims).
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by their fake claim alone
By their character claim alone*
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@drafterman
Found that game with endark
And this is the problem with oros argument. Even if very few games are found immediately upon searching for a players games that is more likely because there have just been so many games on DDO over the years and less likely because they have not played many games and their role is therefore easily indicated by their fake claim alone.
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@Barney
I will likely be asking for gists if any lengthy stuff (one for this game so far would be nice).
- Easy for scum to fake claim characters but disadvantageous for them to do so.
- No harm for town to claim just their characters, of they keep all other info hidden then their role is not recealed to scum.
- Mass character claim suggested by myself and quickly agreed to by many others for the above reasons, popcorn pattern suggested by bullish.
- Oro got popcorned and refuses to claim. Tries to convince us that mass character claiming is anti-town.
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@drafterman
Pretty sure he (endark) was my scum buddy in economist mafia.
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Post 180 is invalid. At the time of making post 180 I had apparently glossed over post 104, which I just noticed during a re-read I am conducting at the moment, and was under the (incorrect) impression that Singularity had been replaced against her will.
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Cuz one single nerd is salty about losing some political sim game to you on discord? (I was not present so idk what happened but that is basically what I gathered).
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/in
I assume by Riverdale you are referring to something other than the city by that name in LoTR so idk what any of these things mean and therefore abstain my vote on theme.
Edit: Read the thread and I guess these are TV shows. Never watched any of them though so still abstaining.
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So I just found out a couple hours ago from ppl talking at work that apparently Kobe Bryant is dead now. Is that why you quoted him?
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@Greyparrot
@Vader
Right now with no mass character claim scum can claim whatever role is convenient for them to claim then find a player that had that role before and claim it. If they lock themselves into a certain player as their character then later on if it becomes convinient for them to, for example, claim doc they have to cross their fingers and hope that their claimed character just happened to be a doc at some point in a past game.
It is so simple that Supa could get it. Supa, explain it to this man.
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@Greyparrot
safefakeclaims
Omfg all that means is they would not have any chance of being counter-claimed, which isn't the goal of the massclaim anyway so why should I give a fuck? You can't possibly be this thickheaded, which makes your actions seem instead like willful ignorance.
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@Greyparrot
Lunatic gave me safe fake claims the 2 times I was scum in his games.
Okay then let scum use their safe claims IDGAF.
This is not a mass character claim designed to catch scum by making them slip up now and getting counter-claimed.
This is a mass character claim designed to make it harder for scum to fake claim later on by narrowing their potential role options
How are you not getting this?
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@oromagi
I've only ever found one game my DDO person ever played
What is their username? I can help find more.
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@Greyparrot
@Vader
@Speedrace
@SirAnonymous
@Zaradi
Join the town bloc. Lynch this oro dude.
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@oromagi
I think a better idea would have been to claim game, not character but I its too late now. Only claim if its going to aid town please.
Lmao no. As scum if I saw that I would just pick a wacky role madness game to leave my options open for later role claims. The whole point is to lock scum into a limited set of potential fake claims while also incentivising them to not lie about their character by making them worry about being counter-claimed, thus further screwing them my not just allowing them to look for a role they want then using that find for the popcorn.
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This early cooperation among the townies with the whole popcorn claiming is a good sign, though we should probably have a discussion about the general concept in the endgame so that people understand why claiming out-of-turn in a popcorn scenario is anti-town. Good signs so far, just need oro to hop on so we can keep this train rolling.
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I dislike mod psychology as a general rule but I am going to have Zaradi as slight town for now. If Singularity was intentionally fluffing as a scum tactic I do not think lunatic would replace over it.
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@Dr.Franklin
<br>Being like supa is not one of my goals
I know, that is why I am telling you that it should be.
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@Vader
In DP1, the claim was scummy because of the presumed fair balance
1) You said just now that you think it is "inherently" scummy, in other words you are saying it is scummy regardless of outside factors such as balance analysis
1a) This is backed up by post 66 of DP 1 where you scum read the role itself with no other factors included.
2) It was explained to you in-game precisely why balance analysis is a terrible route to go and the reasons given turned out to be exactly correct.
3) Claiming suicidal is basically the same thing as claiming innocent child. Are you familiar with the innocent child role?
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@Athias
Not a question, I said "it is" not "is it"
Very understantable mistake though given how many people actually do incorrectly use "it is" as a format for asking questions and also the question mark that I put. It was supposed to indicate tone rather than actually indicating a question being asked but in hindsight that is rather difficult to tell over text.
So yeah that misunderstanding probably my fault.
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VTL oromagi
As per the popcorn policy, though I agree GP is scum suspect.
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lets just popcorn down the list. Drafter who's your pick?
I second this but recommend drafter pick bullish since he is actually online right now. Also, fix for the list:
1. Sir - Antidoter - miller (bsh1's star trek mafia)
2. drafterman - Koopin - ??? (???)
3. Discipulus - Geogrophia - ???
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@Greyparrot
@drafterman
@Bullish
@oromagi
@SirAnonymous
If you are town help me form a town bloc and force a mass character claim.
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If I am understanding the mechanics correctly I think a mass character claim might not be a bad idea. Force scum to limit themselves to a very specific list of fake claims for later while at the same time there is no way for them to know which game each town character gets its role from so it will do nothing whatsoever to help narror what townies have power roles or not
Yeah, I see zero reason not to mass character claim immediately. I am Geogrophia.
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@Athias
Yeah that's what I said. Idk what else he was really expecting me to say about it.
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Wow. You managed to take an outlandishly retarded concept (the concept of giving a damn how many posts you have made) and turn it into something actually somewhat interesting.
I am genuinely impressed.
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@Vader
Your role was inherently scummy
Also please explain how claiming a confirmable role is 'inherently scummy'.
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