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@PressF4Respect
In spirituality you are challenged to rise above the individual mind, when you see the default position it should be obvious. That souls are being controlled by the mind and emotions, not knowing they have complete superiority over that.
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@PressF4Respect
Because the mind exists independent of the conscious soul. You can see all kinds of aberrations of the mind play out in creation....it should be no argument.
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@PressF4Respect
So, the mind is a tool used by the soul, and the soul cannot directly control the body. Right?
Wrong.
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@PressF4Respect
No, as well I deleted it lol
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@PressF4Respect
So the mind is separate from the soul, and the mind and soul are two distinct entities. Correct?
Not entities, the mind is mechanical not an entity.
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@PressF4Respect
To put it another way, your mind can be thinking something your soul knows is bullshite.
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No sir, the mind is distinct from the actual soul. The mind is more like a tool we use to navigate creation.
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@PressF4Respect
If I even for one second spot an argument, I'll be all over it.
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@PressF4Respect
He blatantly has a different opinion than me, he hasn't offered any arguments or rebuttals other than he disagrees with my method. His opinion is that I'm wrong lol, that is just an opinion. You are free to make sense of our posts and who has a legit foundation. It comes down to interpretation, and Theism has the advantage. IMO.
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@ebuc
even they did the are not diametric opposites in the world of heck ergo follows no rational, logical common sense pathways of thought,
This is your thought to every response, then I wonder if there is any thought and commonsense that goes into it at all. If you follow the proposition everything should fall into place. You have a multiverse, you have a sustainer, you have a source and a power supply that answers so many questions about our experience, dig deeper!
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@zedvictor4
You have a very poor way of making objections. I'm not sure if I saw an inquiry in there! God forbid inquiries, I wouldn't want to make any sense of it for ya lol.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Damn, and here I was thinking you were taking notes...
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@Dr.Franklin
no it's not hard, no one cares
Lol +1
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@PressF4Respect
Interpretation- observe the processes that occur in our universe, processes correlate with intelligence that is our direct experience. Look at how energy operates in creation, this is a major hint! observe how energy creates intelligence and then ask yourself how and why?
Logic- life comes from life, inanimate material cannot create conscious beings and intelligence. Conscious beings come from a conscious Source, processes come from a mind obviously.
Commonsense- it's been shown throughout human history that man has experienced things outside the human sense perception, to deny that it would be foolish. Categorize it certainly but ignore it?? you can't ignore the numbers involved when you honestly look at the evidence. Commonsense goes with logic and again, what we observe taking place in our universe are intelligent processes. Mix this with the abundance of testimonial evidence and you have a strong platform. IMO...
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@PressF4Respect
Interpretation, logic and commonsense.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
There is NO reality in spirituality, it is impure imagination.
Keep telling yourselves that lol, there's two ways to figure this out....get off your lazy azzes, get outside your programmed minds and get involved or you can wait until you slip from the physical body. I would suggest the former if you want to have any integrity and thought in the matter.
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@zedvictor4
When you have an inquiry let me know. Thanks for all the opinions though.
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@PressF4Respect
So your entire case hinges on anecdotal evidence, correct?
You can label it whatever you like, it's classified as evidence. And if you look at the definitions of evidence you will find the term testimony. And that evidence correlates with the nature of spirituality. In other words it's the only kind of evidence for a transcendent reality, there is no material objects involved other than the human experience. But to answer the question no, I'm not relying entirely on testimonial evidence, there are other factors that indicate the proposition of Theism. However, just like atheism it's about interpretation.....scientific based evidence is neutral and can be interpreted more than one way.
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@Paul
I want to be spiritual, but I do not wish to believe in god, is this possible?
Well it would be kinda an oxymoron. The very nature and reality of spirituality is to connect you back with that origin. You don't have to do anything, but you want to understand and have full knowledge if God exists. Why play the game without God? that seems a bit silly to me, rendering the spiritual path of no real use.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Taking notes, I like that.
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@zedvictor4
Changing minds is reprogramming the human computer. Which is almost impossible under normal conditions.
Which is why you don't want to close yourself off from spirituality, because that is what it will seek to do. If you do close yourself off, you will never receive anything beyond what you think you know.
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@zedvictor4
Of course there is no evidence for the existence of a soul.
Thanks for the opinion, but perhaps go look up the definition of evidence.
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@TheRealNihilist
You are able to relate on many levels, you just need a source to connect with.
I still do not understand this.
You need a source that you can pull from that you can actually relate with, meaning there are plenty of ways you can approach spirituality. You don't have to accept any religions or concepts you think are absurd. Don't get me wrong, I see you are obviously opposed to Theism but that doesn't have to remain that way.
You don't relate to Theists in your direct word view because of their absurdities, but don't forget you have a connection with those who can connect the dots with a Creator absent of those absurdities.
Another sentence I don't understand. Do try and make it simpler.
It's obvious from reading the OP you think Theism is absurd. On one hand I don't blame you because there are a lot of wacky claims and ideas within the religious sphere, on the other hand you have pre-conceived notions. But there is another side to this, which makes sense and can be acceptable. I think it would help if you could find a balance in all this, or consider other views about it. When I read the OP I'm not reading from someone who has an open-mind about the topic, but why would you want to be that way? you don't want to close yourself off from anything that could contain truth and have something of interest for yourself.
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@PressF4Respect
Can you please elaborate on this evidence?
Well understanding the nature of spirituality and having a full comprehension of what evidence consists of (the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid) the evidence that correlates with that nature is abundant. Since we can assume that we are not dealing with material objects we can study like we would in our universe we move over to testimonial evidence. Spirituality and religion are the fields that observe that nature, testimonial evidence is what we would want to use as a cross reference and everything is fair game. This would include NDE's and OBE's, spiritual encounters and paranormal study. I can link you with a channel that has a huge database of NDE's and medical facts that collaborate with the testimonials, and these are average people not selling any religious ideas. We're talking about the soul leaving the body after brain death (which begins only 4 min after the heart stops beating).
Having my own encounters with spiritual beings and other experiences I cross examine other testimonies. Together I have my own evidence and a mega storehouse of evidence at my fingertips. Whether or not you wish to categorize spiritual based evidence is up to you( as in weak or strong), but I can help you sort it all out.
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@TheRealNihilist
Why not just remove "I challenge that position."?
I would, but that's what I think you assume, is needing a challenge to your position. Is it not?
You are able to relate on many levels, you just need a source to connect with.
I don't understand how this follows from what you said earlier. You said I don't in the first quote but here you say I do relate. Please make it simpler or rephrase.
You don't relate to Theists in your direct word view because of their absurdities, but don't forget you have a connection with those who can connect the dots with a Creator absent of those absurdities.
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@TheRealNihilist
Are you cranky or something?
Not at all, I don't blame you just want to connect with you. I think you think you are unable to relate to Theists, I challenge that position. You are able to relate on many levels, you just need a source to connect with.
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@TheRealNihilist
The Real Nihilist, how real you wana get? I have no limits so get it all out, now is your chance!
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@PressF4Respect
What do you think of the statements presented in this source:
There is more direct evidence that the conscious soul exists independent of the physical body than any other topic.
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@PressF4Respect
"all functions attributable to this kind of soul can be explained by the workings of the brain."
Conjecture period....and false beyond anything rational compared to the evidence available. The brain is nothing more than a conductor, which would be more like a component on a circuit board, it regulates the flow of what you experience but it itself is just a restrictor. The brain is what confines your experience to this physical world it does not create conscious beings, a conscious entity. The nature of consciousness is an open question is scientific understanding, but not in spirituality. The nature of consciousness is fully articulated. Neurons firing is nothing more than pre-existing activity from a conscious being, and without a soul a new-born is still-born.
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@PressF4Respect
So is the human soul part of god?
Yes, like a clump of clay.....I can form many things from it but it is all clay. The soul is a reflection of the very nature of God, a creative expression of Itself.
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@Paul
The shape would be irrelevant I would imagine, but the structure is much like this chart below.....the middle section (ignoring the face) that runs down through all the created layers is the pure consciousness of the Creator, which exists through all worlds. Much like energy and electricity existing both formless and within form. The planes are the created universes that the soul experiences.
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@PressF4Respect
Do you believe abstract objects exist outside of the universe
The very nature of the conscious soul is immaterial.
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@PressF4Respect
Yes, because the physical experience is actually the outermost layer of the soul and creation. As you get higher into the worlds of God there is less and less materiality to the point where you eventually have the mental worlds and pure conscious worlds, and all of this comes out the universal mind of God. Have you ever heard of the universal mind?
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@PressF4Respect
Does this his mean you believe in reincarnation?
Absolutely, and reincarnation exists in most religions they just label things different names. Even in Christianity the soul exists apart from the physical body, so while it doesn't elaborate on what the soul experienced before it appeared in the womb they do however believe in an afterlife. And if an afterlife exists the soul reincarnates period. The basic definition of reincarnation is "the rebirth of a soul in a new body." So yes of course.
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@PressF4Respect
Are the moral actions based off of one’s own morals
There is a higher standard that exists, because not everyone has the same moral code or intentions so it can't really be based off of opinion or feelings of the individual.
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@PressF4Respect
Are the moral actions based off of one’s own morals, or off of God’s?
More like universal laws that we abide under, similar to natural laws. This is more based off our interaction with others and the planet, so while it's objective it's also individual. I'm under the impression we don't need God to be moral, but since we are the very nature of God what's really the distinction? the difference is that the soul exists in an environment where it interacts with other beings and nature, whereas God exists in the state of aloneness, meaning there is no other.
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@PressF4Respect
What places, other than heaven or hell, can one go to in their afterlife? I’m Curious
Well the soul is eternal so the experiences are endless, the Creator is an eternal creative force we should never put limits on such a Reality. When you leave this world it's the same as our physical universe, there are many many planets, galaxies and forms. You can call it a multiverse, creation has layers and so does the soul. As well you could end up coming back to earth, depending on your progress and Kama.
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@PressF4Respect
Both. I would say. There's moral actions and then there are reaction actions.
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@PressF4Respect
Not, because again I said that we do have our own will. Twice now. What I'm saying is that we live in a world where our actions have consequences, that doesn't mean predetermined.
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@PressF4Respect
to either heaven or hell
Just to add, there isn't just two places when you leave this body, those are two of many options. Creation is massive, if you think the universe is enormous wait til you see what else exists!
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@PressF4Respect
So if there is no free wil
I said we have our own will, it's just not free as in we do whatever we want with no effect.
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@PressF4Respect
Disagree, hell is just a prison. It's purpose in the afterlife is the same here, there is no predestined to be in hell forever that's a bit of nonsense. Heaven is the same, no one gets to a better place that hasn't deserved it.
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@PressF4Respect
Ok, moving on. Do you believe that there is free will?
There is our own will, but it's not free. We exist in a cause and effect environment. Meaning there is a reaction to every action and a consequence for all that we do, now or later.
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@PressF4Respect
Yes definitely, without that there would be no process.
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@PressF4Respect
Do you believe that God created man directly,
Of course because the soul exists prior to the physical body. The material body is nothing more than a vehicle that your mom and dad were involved in forming the physical body of what you are.
or that God created life and humans came to be as a result of those processes you mentioned?
You have both, you have the soul which comes out of the heart of God and then the soul is sent into creation to experience life through a physical vessel. That vessel of course is needed to interact with this world. So....you have first the created soul, then the created bodies that were developed through processes.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Let me know if you want to discuss something.
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