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@janesix
I'm not so sure I "hope" it's true. Especially if my soul is immortal. That kind of sounds like hell to me.
Yeah but don't be afraid of that, try and remember your perception of life is limited by what you perceive through your current body, and that might not always be very fun. Know that you will not always suffer in a physical body, you have a lot to learn and your journey is long and while it might not be so pleasant now don't let that be the judge of what happens later. Your Creator knows you and what you need and want, some experiences are much more mundane than others so you may be very pleasantly surprised when you leave this world. It may not appear to be hell to you then...
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@ludofl3x
It sounds like this is something you hope is true, which is why you believe it's true. Is that unfair to say?
If people only knew that hope and personal desires have nothing to do with the reality that exists beyond this world. This is such a simple minded assertion it's hard to read really. This doesn't have anything to do with what one wants, hopes or likes that is completely irrelevant. As a matter of fact it's not always fun and pleasant knowing we are not annihilated at physical death. Many people might even hope that death is the case rather than facing the reality that we will pass from this life right to the next and all that it entails.
Spirituality actually opposes the mind, emotions, desires and personal hopes, in a way where we have to face that it is not all there is to life but much more, that life expands far beyond our little hopes and dreams. Hopes and dreams are fine but they don't always apply to the spiritual reality. So what people experience spiritually speaking are not based on hope or wants. They are based on an objective reality.
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@janesix
I don't tend to have many "visions" like these, mine tend to be more of a perceptual nature. Feelings that can't be described in words. Energy. I have had a few visions though, the most vivid being geometric shapes and religious symbols.
Yeah visions aren't always the order of the day, I just used those examples because they were really neat. But perception is basically the key, doesn't matter if you visually see something or not it's the same thing just different manifestations of the same reality. When you leave the physical body though all these things will be very clear to you, knew sights, vision and perception from the spiritual body itself and the world that corresponds with that experience. Remember though, no matter what form you are present in it's the soul that is looking through that form. The soul can't look back on itself in it's true state of being just like you can't when you meditate, it has no body just awareness.
I've been cultivating the spiritual body for many years so my experiences will likely be different but spirituality is a process for each individual now or later.
And the beings I have met have been felt(or percieved I guess) and not seen.
Yes that happens to me all the time, you don't need to actually see a being to understand or perceive it is there, they too have an energetic presence and can be felt or noticed. Much different than the physical heavy body though, like certain colors of the full spectrum of color can't be seen by the physical eyeball so is the same with the spirit body. It exists far less dense than the physical form so if a spiritual being is seen it's because the perception of the individual has moved to the spirit body. This of course is how people have spiritual experiences but no one can explain why lol, it's that simple, because each individual soul in this world have both a physical layer as well as spiritual layers and can alternate between those frequencies of awareness.
But yeah "perceiving" is the very same thing as seeing spiritually speaking, because the experiences transcend the physical sense perceptions. In other words you can feel God and other beings not associated with this world, and you can have emotional experiences as well.
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So I have had about three major spiritual encounters that really changed me and what I thought was actual and possible. Though I have had many experiences my first sight of a spiritual being was very memorable and perhaps because I was only like 6 years old. I was a young kid just playing and minding my business when I noticed there was a group of kids looking out the window in a townhouse and I went over to look and about 100 yards was a pond or lake that was part of the complex just in front of my view. There was a lady (spirit) hovering over the lake walking towards the shore line, it was beautiful, the dress and the colors were amazing....she was tearing off pieces of her dress and they were floating behind her like leaves in the wind. The movement was so unusual, like she was moving in water and the way the gown moved...very colorful yet transparent in a way, hard to explain but really cool. This was obviously the spirit form/body or what is known as the subtle layer, these can be seen as your attention switches from the physical perception to the spiritual perception.
Another time I experienced something really awesome that pertains to my screen name which I saw in a vision on a wall. I was praying for my son one night as he slept years ago and when I went to stand up a vision on the wall in the dark opened up like a projector screen, it was a very clear summer scene like what you would see in a very beautiful park setting, sunny and bright and everything fresh and colorful. As I looked at this vision that sort of stunned me I saw a pair of birds that flew through the top of the image carrying a banner that said ETERNAL VIEW and I can still see the lettering clear as day. Never knew what the name was for but it stayed with me until this day.
Another time I had some negative encounters that scared the devil out of me lol, lets just say both positive and negative forces exist beyond this realm or experience. One should really learn about what they really are and why they are hear in this world because when they leave this planet they will encounter many things, places, many souls and beings. If an individual leaves this body believing they will never exist again this can be quite a dramatic experience, this is why people should consider and practice that which creates knowing because the reality that transcends this one is very dynamic, vast and so much more compelling than this one.
One of my favorite experiences is what I call "getting in the spirit", this is an exercise that clears the physical, mental and emotional state of being when one is not even prepared for it. This is just a form of meditation and experience that overrides those three states of awareness leaving you in a state of absolute contentment and bliss. See, the physical, mental and emotional layers can create such a weight on the individual but they are only carrying that baggage. When you elevate your consciousness to that of a Divine frequency you raise your state of experience above the frequency of the mind, body and emotions and can experience freedom from that. It's very hard to articulate what it's like but the Bible calls it the piece that passes understanding, that's pretty much what it's like. A piece that penetrates all layers of your being beyond what you normally control or experience, a lot like basking in the perfect water or sunset. Out of this experience comes many things...insights, visions and even words of knowledge.
Anyways this is kind of vague but there's many things to experience beyond the physical perception and I'm kind of a simple guy, like simple things and so this is something that fascinates me because I know what my mind and brain are capable of, when you experience things outside of that you know you hit the mark. I've also been applying spirituality since I was a young kid so it's more normal for me to have encounters than the average person or so it seems anyways. I have just always loved God and don't put anything in between that reality.
So many encounters to list but those are just some of the things that stand out to me off the top my head.
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@janesix
But you know they will want something to "measure" and weigh, because that is the nature of materialists.
Sure, that's the secret behind spirituality that is not on display to the average on-looker is that it's not about beliefs but application and observation, principles. So while we don't deal with physical objects we still have plenty of ways to determine what is true because we have more than just a physical body, we still have perception from all aspects of our being only some need to be culminated or practiced. When you leave this world you are present in the spiritual form or body, since this is always a part of you and not just something you get when you die you can observe from that point of observation always, this is where spiritual experiences have validity and expertise because it deals with that aspect of our existence.
Spirituality has a science behind it but one needs to consider the sources that deal with that reality and be willing to interact with it. Since spirituality is more an application and observation there is more than just the intellectual side of it, it needs to be applied not believed. This means learning how to differentiate between the flesh perception and the higher spiritual perception. Unfortunately the materialist rejects spirituality based on their observation of the physical world and perceptions not knowing that's a very small fraction of what we really are.
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@janesix
It would consist of the sources that deal with that nature of experience obviously. This would include all of religion, spirituality and spiritual experiences....NDE's, soul travel and OBE's. When you piece together this amount of evidence and testimonials it's obvious that the soul exists independent of the physical body, meaning that religion and spirituality are correct.
The evidence that correlates with the nature of the soul is overwhelming, it's basically a big fat sign that says hey look humans, you will still exist when you leave this body lol, come on look at the numbers!!
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@Ramshutu
I didn’t say you invented the idea of souls. I said it has asuch validity as something you could have made up.
That depends on what emphasis you put on which sources. But if you want to correlate with something you need to look at the correlating evidence and sources that deal with that nature and experience.
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@Ramshutu
Erm no.
Lol
Nothing you just said about the “nature of consciousness and spirituality” is factually true or valid.
According to who or what??
There is no compelling evidence for the existence of a soul, or that there is a deeper truth to spirituality. In fact, the evidence appears to suggest otherwise given the studies into just those things.
Thanks for the opinion, but it's ignorant and dismissing probably because you label everything in spirituality pseudoscience and mental illness not because there is no truth behind it. That is sad, but not surprising.
Now, you may not understand how evidence works; and are simply pointing to facts or examples that are not uniquely indicative of deeper meaningfulness, as is pretty common in forums like this - but that is your lack of understanding rather than any particular proof
Oh shut up and look up the definition of evidence or I can do it for you. It's very simple Ram.
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@Ramshutu
You are basically dismissing an avenue as irrelevant - based on two things that you state are true, you have no evidence for, and have as much inherent factual validity as something you just decided to make up.
When you make up what you believe someone else is "making up" that is intellectually dishonest. Try again by asking instead of telling.
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@Ramshutu
There is no proof of a soul, and no proof that a consciousness is caused by a soul.
Not proof that you would be content with, but certainly evidence. The nature of consciousness is verified and proven through experience which includes all of religions and spirituality and NDE's. Together the evidence is concrete.
While you may want to believe it - your desire to believe does not make your claims any more truthful.
Desires and beliefs are irrelevant to the truth, to the evidence available that deals with the nature of the conscious soul. There is a science behind spirituality and creation. Exciting? yes it is...
in reality, it is unsupported speculation that you cannot even show is possible, leave alone true: and is being used as an intellectually dishonest hammer to try and prevent reasonable intellectual discussion.
Bull crap. Gert real Ram, you can label whatever you want speculation but spirituality and the nature of consciousness has been fully articulated.
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@RoderickSpode
I don't agree with a number of things he's said. I don't believe, for instance in reincarnation. Not in the traditional sense anyway.
Well we could satisfy that in a number of ways, first consider that the soul existed prior to the physical body, this should be a no-brainer even in Christianity. If that soul inhabits a physical body once or a number of times either way it is a reincarnation because the soul exists apart from any forms. If you exist in an afterlife in another form that is reincarnation.... If you existed in a series of lives or are a new soul no matter how you look at it reincarnation is a reality, when you leave this world you still exist in another form and another world. Whether that's heaven or another shot at the physical world or one of the multiverses it's all reincarnation. Fundamentalist Christians don't like terms that are not generally accepted in their religions lol, but reincarnation at the basic definition is "the rebirth of a soul in a new body." That applies in many ways especially within spirituality, Christianity or whatever religious, spiritual path one pursues spirituality has the same objective for the individual. Also not everything and all knowledge is within the Bible, many other paths of spirituality have knowledge and insights about God and creation. God is not as rigid as some religions make that out to be.
I'd be interested in the other things you don't agree with I said...
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@RoderickSpode
Out of curiosity, according to how your life is now, taking karma into consideration, what kind of prior life do you feel you had? Assuming you feel you had, or possibly had one.
Well first we should consider our weaknesses and habitual habits or thought patterns we have. It's easy to spot the negativity within the self or things that need to be adjusted because those manifestations are circular meaning they have a hold on the individual and they play out in the mental, emotional and physical layers. So they are plain to see to the individual as they desire to see them.
For me it's a number of things that need to be adjusted, my heart is pure, my wife's heart is pure and my kids hearts are all sincere and pure. We are really good people but have had a very rough start to life. So whereas we have a very personal passionate family and beliefs and we have a lot of love there are some adjustments to be made and we have had to work through some difficulties. This is a lower level part of creation and most the souls here that are here are here to learn from their experiences and or from their Karma.
My prior life or experience was probably pretty simple, since I tend to enjoy the more simplistic side of creation and just simply love God or the Creator or whatever you want to call that which creates. However my emotional and mental body run much deeper, while beauty and simplicity touch my physical body my emotional and mental state of awareness gets me in trouble lol. I have had to work through obstacles in the mental and emotional layer.
I would assume I had a mediocre life with some harsh lessons, those lessons probably caused me to look deeper to the spiritual self and make the appropriate adjustments in this life. I say this because at a very young age I fell in love with the Gospels of Jesus and by the age of 8 or 9 I was applying the Gospels on my own accord so I was generally very spiritual even as a kid. This sort of laid the foundation of how I lived and thought for the majority of my childhood and adulthood, or better put how I interacted with others.
With the exception of the spiritual Masters the souls who inhabit this planet are here to experience duality and cause and effect and learn from that reality. This of course is needed before one transcends to the higher heavens....or where you find higher spiritual beings or "angels"...that sort of thing.
A lot of times souls are paired with people who have similar problems or things they need to work on, not all the time but a lot of the times. For more spiritual souls the lessons are sharper and quicker, for souls that are more immature there is much more time and error to be allowed.
My life is not that relevant in the grand scheme of things in this world, but my family has what they dream of having. We have a very simple life but a very fulfilling one, it's hard to explain but many people who have a lot of things don't have the seemingly smaller things or the thigs that really make someone happy. I personally like the smaller things, and it that I have had many struggles so my Karma is not yet fully burned off.
Next time I come back here it better be to uplift the consciousness of mankind on this planet lol, it's too claustrophobic here especially when you know what it is like away from the physical body.
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@Ramshutu
Here's the catch, not everything is known in science obviously and never will be so we have lots of potentially true facts and knowledge that has yet to be applied or acknowledged by science. So what the science nutter does is reject anything outside that sphere by labeling it "pseudoscience", it's ridiculous and should be considered a fallacy. Science will never have all the answers and there are certain aspects of our experience that science is unable reach or confirm, so why would anyone put their full trust in that?
Now before anyone assumes I'm anti-science let me be clear.....we need science and it's a good thing but anyone willing to throw all their eggs in an incomplete field of study has overstepped big time. Science is simply a method that we use to determine and examine things we want to learn about in the natural world it's certainly not the truth, it helps determine what might be true but not in all cases. If science is a progression that means at no time does it possess full complete knowledge, and if it doesn't possess full knowledge then there will always be information and facts outside it and there will always be those skeptics that claim "pseudoscience!" when something falls outside that arena. TBH it's kind of intellectually dishonest.
This of course does not mean anything claimed outside science is true, some things are obvious but it also means not everything within scientific knowledge is all that exists or are the only facts available. "Pseudoscience" is a term used for atheists to shun Theism lol, or when someone has no more input to offer on a specific topic just use the magic word and everything is solved! it's very much a crutch term that has no real validity for the one's using it. You can replace the term pseudoscience with a question mark, or an "I don't know".
What techniques do pepppe follow to recognize pseudoscience when they see it?
Things that don't make sense, or that do not follow in logic is a good start to reject something or label it pseudoscience, not based on whether or not it's claimed somewhere within the scientific field. To push the word where it's used to reject everything that science has yet to uncover is a big mistake, this is where the term can get people in real trouble.
Recognizing what could be pseudoscience gets tricky though because people will naturally have biases, and those biases could lead to faulty conclusions for example....any knowledge of spiritual type experiences or facts gets pushed under the rug by an atheist because science has not confirmed it, then the atheist is left in the dark about what could be true but might never know because he thought it was just hogwash. This is where the term can diminish a persons true potential of experience and knowing.
Energy channeling you mentioned, see this should not be something that's labeled "pseudoscience" yet......energy exists, we know everything we do and think or put our attention on produces energy...energy can be focused and utilized, it can have an effect on something....so why would that be in the pseudoscience category? I'm not into crystals and things like that but they do possess condensed energy, and it's obvious we ourselves can put our energy to things and manifest what we want. As a matter of fact the frequencies of energy are everything and within everything, it's where everything becomes possible and where the potential to change something becomes a reality. Energetic frequencies are also where the conscious soul can have different experiences outside the normal physical sense perception. Now go ahead and label what I just wrote pseudoscience lol.
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@RoderickSpode
Hello EtrnlVw.
Hey Roderick!!
I'm posting on a laptop so I'm experiencing all the fun that goes along with it. So I have to limit my answering individual quotations. I have to avoid getting that scrambled jigsaw puzzle look with the sentences everytime I hit the back button.I gave Outplayz a scenario where a former employee described what he thinks will happen (to him) in the afterlife. He stated that because he felt that we will somehow have an eternal experience according to what we take pleasure in during this life. To him, it was an eternal setting in a coffee shop drinking cappucino with his girlfriend. I was wondering what your opinion was on that. Where, if any, are his thought on this accurate? Where might he be missing the mark?
Okay after reading your post it's both of what I mentioned before, creation is driven by our desires and Karma together and I'll try and explain how that works. The fun being that our soul gravitates towards certain roles or attracts certain experiences like what we dream of or want, this could include everything from very small experiences (seemingly irrelevant) to very grand roles (seemingly relevant) and plays. Our attention individually is the focus of energy, the focus of our energy is what creates things or changes things in creation. This is what the soul is created for, there's many dynamics to that but I'll try and stick with your direct inquiries.
You can be a coffee shop owner in your next life and have your soul mate find you there, but if you have Karma built up you may have your dream but also a lesson that you must learn from within that dream. So while creation is driven by cause and effect (Karma) it's also driven by dreams (desires), both together work for each scenario, they don't cancel out one another they exist simultaneously. So basically you have your hearts desires while at the same time learning from your experiences.....so that former employee was right to a degree, but remind him within each dream or desire is the law of Karma attached, this can make for a dream or a nightmare depending upon what we "sow". In this realm you can have coffee and a girlfriend and still experience hell lol, so many dynamics that's why we shouldn't judge circumstances.
We contend with the mind and emotions beyond just the physical experiences and those can be good or bad experiences or states of being.
Where he might be missing the mark is his Karma might direct him to a completely different experience according to what he sowed into creation, then again he could be a good person and a coffee shop owner in his next life. This of course makes for a fun creation, that someone would dream of being something so simple that someone may reap of the benefits because we all love coffee!!
This is the way all of creation works and why it can be so enjoyable, this is why so many roles and desires are needed and why we should just admire and love one another. I would never want to be a coffee shop owner thank God for your friend.
Or he may not want to be a coffee shop owner at all, it doesn't matter all these individual desires and dreams make for interesting creation.
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@RoderickSpode
We're not in totall control even now. We're subject to the laws of nature
Not your physical body no, but the soul behind the shell is eternal it cannot be destroyed and in many cases the soul is allowed to travel to where it's attention is, or according to it's Karma or debts it owes. When the conscious soul enters form in creation it is then confined to that reality/body and subject to those laws. But here's the fun part, when you leave this particular reality you have far less limitations so the experiences become much greater and more interesting.
Conscious awareness has to be confined and reduced way down through subtle layers and a physical form to have individual little experiences like looking through a mask. Your true form if you want to call it that is simply your awareness, your soul was stepped down and confined to the mind, the emotions and a physical body and sent into the worlds of duality which is creation. When you leave the physical body you will be present in your spirit form or astral body. This form is far less dense of course but it's still a layer that confines a soul to the astral plane, what many might label heaven depending on which part they inhabit.
So the fun part is that you can shed that layer too even though the spirit body lasts far longer, then you would be present in the world that corresponds with that body or subtle layer and these layers would be known as multiverses. When the soul sheds all these forms or bodies it then would be in the full true form of the Creator, or first original state of being. So because of these layers and multiverses the soul has endless opportunities and experiences and so the souls desires bind them to certain realities.
so we can't do anything we want in an omnipotent fashion.
Not once you commit to a world or a physical body but the true form of the soul is identical to that of God. There is only one conscious reality that pervades all individual conscious experiences.
And our free will is confined to our laws.
Once you entered your body through the spiritual gland you confined your reality to certain circumstances that are tailored for you to learn from and so your full potential as a soul was reduced but this is what makes creation and for it to appear there is individuality. Remember you are not just a physical body you are occupying that body, so you have two natures really....what you experience through the physical senses and your actual soul which has no form, no body.
Sometimes our decisions are based on what others demand, so even if it's our decision to follow the rules, it's still the decision of those in authority. And sometimes we have to pay the consequence by causing authority to have to make utlimate decisions for us. So, I don't think anything changes in that respect, say, after we pass on.
All you are really doing here is acknowledging our experiences through this world and body, the point Outplayz is making I believe is that this is only a show, a movie and the physical shell is just a mask. The true nature of the soul is unlimited, unrestricted and can virtually be anything it wants in the vast worlds of the Creator. On the other hand because of the laws and consequences that are present whatever we do has an effect, or a counter experience. Whatever we put someone else through we must experience that also. Cause and effect scenario but tied to our experiences. This of course is how the soul plays, it's how it has lives and experiences. Without duality and separation everything is a singular Reality.
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@Mopac
consequence of Adam's transgression, that we inherit this big mess.
We don't inherit Adam's transgression. Adam and Eve were symbolic of mankind as a whole not individuals. That means we don't pay for their mistakes, what it means is that we battle and endure their weaknesses as humans not their specific actions as recorded.
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@keithprosser
Chemistry and physics rule this dimension. They are what make something or eliminates something. However, these conditions only exist because of God.
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@keithprosser
Believe it or not, (another argument) the human body and it's condition is based upon cause and effect, baby or not. That's how this part of creation is ruled. It's not evil or good, it's cause vs effect. This takes place on many levels, this realm was never supposed to be perfect.
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@Mopac
The Duality within creation will always exist as long as the worlds of God exist....which is two sides of the same coin. Duality must exist for creation to exist as it is. Duality means two opposing states or forces (good and evil, cold and hot, light and darkness, alkaline and acidic, push and pull ect ect) and this is what controls creation as a whole from the very beginning (even apart from morality, two opposing forces creating a balance between each other), this creates contrast and separation apart from singular state of the Creator and without it there would be no creation period. While evil is not a created thing or object (meaning the Bible is wrong), it is more of what can be done in any given moment. It's the potential through individual actions is what creates an evil outcome (the potential of duality).
Actions equal what can be labeled as evil, not that God creates evil but the potential for creating evil God can be blamed for, because of the reality of duality in creation. So while God can be blamed for the potential of evil, God cannot be blamed for the individual actions of evil, two different things. We have the potential for evil, but we also have the potential for good, or what can subdue evil in any given moment so there is individual responsibility. Is God exempt from being blamed for evil? no of course not on one level, what God is exempt from is individual choices because in an environment where both good and evil can thrive choices are what determines the outcome. So while God is responsible for duality, the individual soul is responsible for what choices are made in that environment. Self restraint is an individual choice, in spirituality one must choose the greater over the weaker.
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@Dr.Franklin
Since Evolution is God's process
No more to be said.
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@Club
Only you can never die. To have life in this realm there must be "physical" death, but your conscious soul never experiences non-existence so life never kills literally, it just experiences life in phases.
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@Mopac
The Orthodox church is a farce, sorry son. You wasted your time.
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@Mopac
You rather me call you a dummy for believing dumb things or a pompous prick? because you have a real habit of labeling others.
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@Mopac
Already done that, but to you not necessary.
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@Mopac
Is that why Jesus said, "...I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."?
The gates of hell will never prevail against the confession Peter made, So have I made the same confession. The church are those who follow the teachings of Jesus.
Is that why Jesus said, "...if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."?
Because the "church" should understand the Gospel. Sine we all know organized religion has fallen short of the Gospels on so many levels it was never meant to represent Jesus, the individual was, which makes up the church.
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@Mopac
I called you a dummy for reasons you can't answer, so don't make it look like 3ru7al is saying something absurd.
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@Mopac
I don't hate you, get real. You might be the one that does not love and accept his brother.
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@croweupc
All Christians say the same thing. My version is right and yours is wrong. Almost all religions use this same argument. There is just one major problem with this, Catholics have left the faith too. I feel sorry for you because nothing will ever change your mind. I will gladly change my mind if evidence were to prove beyond reasonable doubt it’s true. I most certainly have reasonable doubt!
The simple answer is that there never was a right "church" or denomination, Jesus was not about that at all. That was never the point of the Gospels. The point of the Gospels of course was to connect the individual to God, to have a connection between the soul and the spirit in a real way.
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@Mopac
Dummy, ignore it all I don't care. Everything said was perfectly in place. If you want to be a dummy then fine.
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@croweupc
In North Korea they believe in things we consider to be unbelievable things because we didn’t grow up in their culture and under their education system. When we are taught to believe something from an early age it is hard to see the errors. When we are raised in church, taught by the church, only read material produced by the church, it is identical to how North Koreans believe what they believe.
This all falls within the category of Karma....karma of course has many dynamics fundamentalism can never touch or understand. Fundamentalism doesn't know why there are other belief systems understood in a rational way, only irrational.
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@Mopac
All things are not "parts" of God as if God was made up of cells.
Dummy, cells are an analogy of creation and the soul and how it's all put together there is nothing apart from God. The physical body is made up entirely of cells, likewise souls are made up entirely of consciousness. Cells make up the physical body and consciousness makes up the soul, it's also the nature of God period, the two are one and the same as far as the nature of what it is made of. There are no other ingredients.
Creation is united to God by energy, not essence.
And energy like consciousness is all one substance, not two or more, there is no separate energy from another. Creation and God are united by the very thing that makes it's existence which would be energy. Energy of course is present with conscious activity.
What that means is that Orthodox Christianity understands God in a panentheistic sense, not a pantheistic sense.
Do you understand panentheism? it just means the conscious nature of God is not bound to only creation, God exists within and outside creation. It doesn't mean God is separate from creation, it means God is both within and outside creation at the same time. Both, not one or the other.
Creation and God are very distinct, but not in a dualistic sense.
Lol. Creation and God can never be distinct and of course within creation duality exists, there exists more than one state of awareness yet God is within all channels of awareness and can be nothing else.
The energy of God pervades creation. God is present in creation through His Word and Spirit. Though this divine energy shares God's essence, and is thus uncreated, creation itself is distinct in an ontological sense.
What the?? can anyone say contradiction??
If the energy of God pervades creation then God is one with creation....because God is why energy exists, and energy is why anything exists. There is no such a thing as separation or distinction from God. That is where you will always fall short in your theories. Or better yet dogma I should say.
So it would be incorrect to say that all things are "parts" of God.
No it wouldn't, unless you're a dummy. And then say what you wrote below.
Though God is in everything, and all things subsist on God, created things are not God, pieces of God, or cells in God's body. If everything in creation was obliterated, God would exist eternally the same. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.
God is in everything yet some things are not God.....wow, do you read your own thoughts??
Nobody is debating if everything in creation was destroyed that only God would exist, because only God exists within everything lol.
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@secularmerlin
Don't get silly, we're talking about tones, what are voices made of.... As well you can't pin the Creator to what you feel like as a human. God's voice is a TONE!
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@secularmerlin
All voices I know of are produced by physical beings. There is no reason to think that any god(s), if any exist, have voices at all.
Physics of Sound
- Traveling Waves. Sound is produced when something vibrates.
“If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”
"So we've heard that everything is energy. Everything, from an apple or an airplane, to a man or a tiger, and all the space in between is energy. Scientists have discovered this by breaking matter right down to the sub atomic level."
All the Creator has to do is manipulate energy to create sound, a tone or anything it wishes. Since energy is always present with conscious activity this is the first tool used to manipulate frequencies, sounds, vibrations....these frequencies and vibrations control all of creation.
Have you asked yourself that special question I've told you about??
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@secularmerlin
It is an example of pseudoscience
The term "pseudoscience" is a word used when science and materialists have reached their limits of what they know and no one has any more to offer. So, if science hasn't caught up just throw any additional knowledge into the pseudoscience bin lol. After someone uses this term they prance off as if they have made an argument, pretty funny actually.
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@Outplayz
Isn't that the most frustrating thing in hell?
Lol well now that you put it that way, it's real sad but this is a low level part of creation. You'll see when you leave this world the souls there are much more aware, life isn't a big secret and souls are taught more about God and their true self. But, it's that way here for a reason, the Source likes all experiences even the ones we feel "God" is so far away or unreachable, or to the atheist absurdity.
You want to talk about your evidence, you want to talk about your logic, you want to talk about your reasoning, but some asshole calls you irrational off the bat and anything beyond...
Yeah I get much worse than that, and even have my own stalker. It's pretty pathetic at times.
"well, you can't prove god to 'me' (selfish devils)" ... doesn't even get talked about. It's really sad, but it does fit into my belief however. This is a movie man... some characters are what they are... it's funny bc if they could easily change... they'd prove me wrong.
This is true like I said above these experiences are necessary, even at times fun for the Creator to observe. I always want to impress the idea of how creative an eternal Consciousness that exists alone is. God wants a massive creation, many types of adventures, many planets, galaxies, forms, creatures to experience ect ect….the soul is on a long, long journey to find out who they really are. It can take as long as the soul wants because time is never an issue.
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@WyseGui
I don't think Theism as we know it is compatible at all with "God".
Huh? that is the source that studies that reality...maybe not broken down into singular belief systems and only certain fundamental religious clubs probably not I would agree with that but now look at spirituality and religion as a whole. Now you have many sources all relaying information about the Creator, now we have a vast wealth of knowledge and of course that doesn't mean it's all accurate. What it does mean is there more information (accurate/non accurate) than anyone could ever fully cover about this reality.
If such a thing exists. I believe if a creator exists, he/she has no further involvement then the initial creation.
Why? think about that for a minute, does that make ANY sense at all? what did God do pack up and leave town lol. Not at all, the Creator is omnipresent meaning there is nowhere something exists where God is not present or aware, this is just the nature of God and pure awareness. So the statement itself is nonsensical (not being rude BTW).
Religion is extremely "human", for lack of a better word.
All knowledge, facts and information come by way of human observations so of course religion has human characteristics as well it's not perfect. However, despite religions many flaws it also contains truths and accurate knowledge but you have to put the time in and research to know anything at all. Don't get me wrong, not all religions are made equal so there are sources that have more facts about the soul and about God than others. The lower the religion the more carnal it will appear but also you see the other side, the uplifting and higher level of enlightenment side, the beauty, the love, the magnetism, the power ect ect.
So basically what you have is somewhat like you would see on an equalizer with varying lows and highs, high levels and lower level paths of spirituality. This is due to the source of any particular belief system and how much that founder truly knew and was aware of, and you can measure the fruit of their practices and knowledge by observing what effects it has on people and the world. This gets a little tricky though because when you're dealing with people in general you will have all kinds of variations, attitudes and actions taken so no one religion will ever look perfect but again we want to take a more universal approach and larger picture of the entire spectrum to ascertain what is useful....and what can be discarded.
The fact that we have so many religions from the same book proves, to me
It should prove to you that people are extremely diverse and have many different ideas and beliefs, they all don't look at everything the same and so variations form what is wrong with that? what is wrong with a little variety in creation? I don't like it when denominations hate and point fingers at others either but that's irrelevant really, it doesn't really have anything to do with what God is. Everyone seems to freak out because there are so many religions and flavors but look at it from another angle, flavors are good and people like to congregate and commune with likeminded folks and so God knows this and it's okay that different cultures and ideals exist within religion.
It's all just for the individual soul to have something to connect with in this life and after.
that God didn't write it.
God didn't write it, people are observing this transcendent Reality and are making records of it. The God-worlds are so vast there will be many interpretations and many ways people will express it.
I don't believe a God would create something so ambiguous and open for interpretation.
Man and cultures create their own religions due to their observations and God lets them, because it's not a big deal. Again, this is okay because the only real reason for any path of spirituality is for the soul to connect with. That in itself is not ambiguous, there's a lot of freedom in spirituality for the individual don't forget that. You too might have a unique way of understanding God and that too IS needed so don't let none of that deter you from checking things out or getting involved.
One day you will certainly leave the physical body and at that point you don't really want to be surprised or unsure about what is happening so it's better just to get your foot in the door and be open-minded to new information.
So I havn't counted God out as the source, so to speak, but I also believe evolution.
That's great, just consider that evolution is a creative process to get where it is currently. Not sure why so many religious people reject the evolution of embodiments. God doesn't just poof things into existence that is a misconception and not true, there is an intelligent process behind all of life as we know it and even beyond this world.
The Creator has to get from pure conscious awareness (which is present with energy) to isolated forms and places and this takes quite awhile to accomplish obviously, the universe alone is enormous.
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@Mopac
See, I can already tell that your Christology is not in line with what the church believes and teaches.
All things come out of the One including Jesus, sorry to burst your bubble there. You act like you don't read the Gospels. The only Church is the teachings of Jesus and those who abide in that it has nothing to do with religious institutions, so you can never convince me that your Catholic club is anything but a farce.
That could be a good discussion if you are interested.
Not at all, with you anyways.
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@secularmerlin
I don't discount anything
You also don't accept anything lol. So getting you to not discount something is next to impossible. Even if everything I say is stone cold true, it will have no effect because of your mentality.
but until we have some concrete evidence (as opposed to testimonial evidence)
That is about as concrete evidence you will ever have dude. Not like evidence where we can duplicate in a lab but come on bro...look at the sheer volume of spirituality, religion and spiritual encounters. Look at the flat out evidence of NDE's, I mean what more kind of evidence do you need to support a reality that is transcendent of the physical sense perception? if you answer that question maybe we could move forward, keeping in mind that a method like science is only concerned with the natural material world because it has no medium to reach that reality. At some point you will have to acknowledge that and take a long hard look and just consider what I'm saying here. You get all your information from others, but when it comes to Theism you suddenly act like you don't know anything.
we cannot know what processes were involved in creating the universe
We've observed those processes, I'm assuming you believe they are purely natural. However in order for God to create something there is first a process. Key number one, look at how energy acts in creation, this should really be something that alarms people but unfortunately the materialistic agenda has been pushed so much people are just numb to it.
if "creating" is the right word.
Creating is a process, goes without saying...
If you just want to give your best guess you certainly may but guessing is all we can do.
Lol, no guessing needed. I have my own experiences as well as an abundance of EVIDENCE to cross reference. Why would I need to guess when we have commonsense, logic, evidence and the science of spirituality and the created worlds.
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@Outplayz
You know me... i've counted out many gods but also believe they all exist lol, but i have not counted out all of this being a manifestation of some kind of infinite consciousness type platform. I think that is what you're calling god...
Yes, because the nature of God cannot be confused to be anything else, that's precisely what "God" is, an eternal consciousness. Not using God to support religious dogma but as a means to communicate what the origins of our universe and existence are.
Got into Muay Thai training again so i'm always spent by the time i'm home.
Sweet, that sounds like my type of activities lol. I've always loved combat sports.
I personally like how it fixes the infinite regress paradox...
It will always satisfy any paradoxes because it is what we all come out of, there is nothing else. Nothing else will ever fully answer and satisfy the intellectual nature of ourselves and our curiosity, not because we are curious but because consciousness will always strive to be free and understand it's true source because of what it is. At some point for every soul, it must know and accept the true nature of itself.
that's my favorite mind bend of the source platform. Keep going, i do enjoy reading these threads bc i know it's not going to be about the Bible... sick of those threads :/
I hear ya, it's a shame we can't go into the fun stuff. Still arguing about minor things, things that really don't even pertain to the soul and the Source.
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@disgusted
All gods are the creation of man. Name one god who is not claimed by man to exist.
Geezus, broken friggin record. Is there any knowledge or claims that are not from man? please elaborate on that because that is how we receive knowledge. Science is also mans effort and examinations/claims, is it too worthless?
It's irrelevant what man claims as far as what exists, but man is the only one who can acknowledge that dum dum.
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@n8nrgmi
do you believe that God punishes people?
Nope, the laws of creation are tied to Karma and these are consequences of our own desires and decisions nothing more, there is no need to fear God in that way the only thing to fear is ourselves and what we choose. This means for every action taken there is an equal reaction, when you enter creation and duality you are bound to these laws just like in a physical body you are bound to physical laws (on one level anyways).
are the bad effects of wrong doing punishment or just a cause and effect thing?
Just cause and effect, if you study Karma you will see how this works. Jesus called it sowing and reaping.
do you believe that sin exists?
Well that depends on how you define sin I guess. There are of course "immoral actions considered to be a transgression against divine law" and divine law is also known as Karma. In other words in duality and creation there are immoral acts because both positive and negative exist, but only that which hurts the self or others. This of course is not directed at homosexuals or anything like that. It's simply laws of creation to keep some order and for souls to learn from their actions. Religions have a way of reaching to far, stepping out of their bounds of what is considered "sin".
"Sin" to me is just negative and self destructive behavior and we don't even have to use that term (sin). It's not really something God is holding over your head as religion portrays and you have to somehow curve that problem no not at all....and it has nothing to do with fundamentalism it's simply a natural law holding you accountable for what you do. It's also nice to know Karma is not just consequences for wrong doing, it's also rewards for those who live with good intentions, believers or NON believers it doesn't matter.
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@n8nrgmi
im asking about a subject completely different than this thread, but i see you're posting and i wanted to ask. what are your views regarding Jesus and the atonement?
Jesus was and is a spiritual Master, the "atonement" is nothing more than an individual abiding in spiritual principles. Jesus actually never said he died for all sins, He said He had the power to forgive sins. This is true, because when you operate in love and forgiveness you get love and forgiveness, when you love others you get love, when you forgive others then you are forgiven. Jesus came to uplift the consciousness of mankind and spirituality and did just that. Unfortunately it's also become a circus, and of course duality is to blame for that. Wherever you find light at it's most extreme you also have darkness at its most extreme. So when examining someone like Jesus there's going to be a mixture of truth and falsity.
what significance do you put on Jesus' death? how do you view the penal substitution model?
Jesus was definitely an enlightened being, this should be pretty obvious. The significance I put on His death is pretty high because he changed the face of religion and how people relate to God and knew he would be punished for that. But I don't really see it the same as some religious institution would because Jesus was for empowering the individual not religious power and control. I recognize the light of God on this Earth and the negative forces to bring that down. Anytime you have the light of God you will see the opposite in effect.
Having said all of that I'm an Omnist in regards to religion and spirituality with a Christian background. I fell in love with the Gospels at a young age and have only ever wanted to pursue God and all that it entails. I've come to the realization that religions are limited in their conceptions and understanding of the eternal Creator.
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@Polytheist-Witch
To make things more simplistic, you are inhabiting a world in which a God created. God doesn't only inhabit naturally created worlds lol (as they would be no different than humans or animals) they are constructed obviously. Claiming Gods without a Creator is pretty silly. This is a created universe.
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@Polytheist-Witch
They did not create the universe.
Then they are not qualified to be a God. They are just beings.
My gods don't consider me lower than them either.
Doubtful. This is a low level part of creation lol, you are not on God status compared to them.
There is something for us to learn from them and vise versa.
Of course, but their level of knowledge far exceeds humans that should be obvious. The only thing we could offer are new experiences and that pertains to the Creator Itself and the investment God has in all of this.
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@Mopac
The Ultimate Reality exists, and that is the only God I recognize.
How many times have you to be told that an "Ultimate Reality" is reality whatever it is. You have to conjecture how this "Ultimate Reality" equals God. I've told you how to do this but you seem to ignore the nature of God and are content with making assertions instead of explanations. This may work for your crippled church but not for those who are seeking truth no matter who it is. Ultimate reality doesn't mean squat without an Ultimate explanation/argument. Only the nature of God can answer this dilemma, one must first recognize the true nature of God and the soul to ever harness this equation. Ultimate Reality is that which is aware and conscious of all things, it's the very nature of God and the soul they intertwine and are connected. You are either unable to articulate the Ultimate Reality because of your ignorance and poor education or you are choosing to ignore the nature of God, in which case you are only confusing yourself and others.
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@keithprosser
As you have ruled out 'not needed', another reason to rule out god is that nothing happens that is incompatile with the 'no god' hypothesis.
Not true and if you were being honest you would consider spirituality and evidence. Everything happens that is incompatible with a "no God" hypothesis, what is wrong with you people lol?
Prayers are not answered, good people suffer, bad people prosper in full accord with random chance.
Ever heard of Karma and reap what we sow? that means prayers will be inconsistent and people will suffer because people are inconsistent and people make others suffer. Where is your real objection?? Karma reaches beyond a single lifetime, so sometimes we won't have the insight to see what is actually the case.
There are things that happen that are beyond our understanding. How a baby develops in a womb is a total mystery
Not really. I can explain that fully through spirituality.
- e can't build an artificialwomb and make atrifical babies in it! But the process of making a baby often goes wrong. Hence it's not magical - it is merely complicated.
This is a cause and effect universe, meaning that perfection is not at the door. If there is a process that goes wrong it's because there was first a cause.
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@TheRealNihilist
Not really. I consider myself to be intellectually honest and try to be intellectually consistent.
I'm only responding to you once, because you seem to have strong biases and that is utterly annoying and impossible to argue with in any intellectual sense. Someone who is intellectually honest is someone who is respectful and flexible. I consider you to be the opposite of intellectual honesty because of your inability to be flexible and your rigid mindset. If you aren't open-minded then you are basically a waste of time. To be nice about it.
With this in mind there has yet to be a good enough argument for God which is why I lean against it.
This is where your ignorance shines so bright, the argument for God is as good as any and always will be, perhaps much more applicable and plausible than any materialistic approach. The reason you can't see that is somewhat disappointing but not surprising. It's actually the norm, are you content with that?
So much time theists had to prove God's existence yet they failed.
Where did they fail when you consider the nature of God and how long religion has been available lol?? the funny part is, is that the proof of God's existence has been shown many times over through spirituality yet you sit like a dum dum waiting for some ignorant scientists to give you answers when it's already been made known. You just think you are somehow above the evidence. The evidence however slaps you in the face cold. Ever thought about that?
Atheism the rejection of God has been around for much less time. In that time they have found arguments for God to be fallacious or not even arguments for God in the first place.
Give me a good example of that atheist. All I hear are strawmen and dishonest assumptions.
With that said I haven't counted out God more so waiting for a good enough argument for it. I think I won't be getting one ever but I can never know what the future brings.
So in other words you have counted out God, because the arguments are in favor of the nature of God presented as evidence. So much so it's almost impossible to ignore the evidence unless you are a biased troll. There's more testimonial evidence for the paranormal and God than for any other topic.
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@Polytheist-Witch
If no God/Gods created the universe then what are they? God's are creators...otherwise they are in the same descriptions as those who are subjected to creation.
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