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@Mopac
I'm not sure I would call The Ultimate Reality a state of consciousness.
That is absolutely what it is, and what it is in all forms. That is actually what everything is, a state of conscious awareness experiencing through forms. The Ultimate reality is that state of consciousness which there is no form and there is no duality, it is where all of creation comes out of. It is in fact, an ultimate state of consciousness. That is awareness.
Could I say The Ultimate Reality feels and knows everything? Certainly.
But how? it was first aware, conscious of everything. That's a no-brainer.
The Ultimate Reality by nature must contain all other realities. If something is real, it isn't real apart from Ultimate Reality.
Then how could you deny what I've written lol? come on man. The Ultimate reality is the state of consciousness which knows and experiences everything as it truly is, It transcends all of creation yet all of creation is within It. Even you don't know what the Ultimate reality is!
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@keithprosser
As I read it the OP is just a colourful way of saying 'keep an open mind'.
Umm okay, maybe on some level but I would say that's more of a passive attitude where you're not actively participating in something or anything. If you want to experience spirituality you have to literally obtain it, apply it, practice it and pursue it. The reason is because it is a cultivation, a progression of the soul it is not just beliefs. Keeping an open mind is good because at least you are not avoiding things, but at some point you have to get involved and not be a side-liner. That is why I used the analogy of adjusting your channel or tuning into.
Theists are always telling atheists to keep and open mind, but seldom show any mental flexibility themselves.
Okay, but do you feel that way about me? I'm pretty flexible no?
Atheists do have open minds.
Well not really when it comes to spirituality TBH. There are some, but not you as you openly admitted. Castin would be a good example of what you are referring to. Disgusted would be the opposite. You're more of an inbetweener who's convinced himself Theism is "wrong", and TBH without any real good reason. The reasons I've seen are mainly strawmen. Strangely you understand Theism in some ways, but you're reason for avoiding it or not accepting it are silly. People may not be aware I read much more than I write.
They opened their minds to all that is available and concluded there is no god.
Can you expand on that?
Unless something new comes along there is no reason to change one's mind.
Well....unless you are willing to make changes you are probably gonna continue in the same cycle until the time is up. And that is not being open minded.
Atheists have open minds to anything new theists have to say,
I present original things all the time. Mostly I think you guys just have decided anything to do with Theism or spirituality is absurd and it comes through in the posts. So again, even though there are exceptions you are not really one of those.
but I doubt there has been anything new on that front for 500 years!
And where have you looked? I find new things all the time.
I rarely see the same open-mindedness to new ideas shown by theists. Those that are open-minded often stop being theists.
Can you give me an example of a new idea? the more "Theist" I get the more open minded I get, that is because spirituality challenges the individual to grow and reach beyond their current limits. What does atheism challenge you to do? considering it's a dead end mindset?
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@Fallaneze
The ultimate reality would be a state of consciousness where everything is felt and known.
Bingo, now we're getting warmer. Flying under the radar are we? I was waiting for Mopac to begin to articulate this. This is true, this is the omnipresent nature of consciousness from the first Source and this state of consciousness pervades all of creation in every moment, we actually exist within the ocean of awareness which is the truest reality. In the moment, the Ultimate reality feels and knows everything. When we step down into creation into individualized forms and bodies what we perceive becomes our personal reality which is distinct from the "Ultimate reality".
How did you know that if I may ask? are you religious or spiritual?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Also don't forget, behind every great man is a great woman lol. We must not forget that even then women was mans inspiration, what got his arse outa bed to conquer the world.....of course their mark is within scripture somewhere beneath!!
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@Deb-8-a-bull
It's hard to deny that men seemed to play the dominant role in spirituality in past generations but I doubt there weren't any God experienced women. I'm sure there were plenty of spiritual ladies just like there are now, but yeah it was the role of men in those days so you could argue the voice of the female was repressed/suppressed back then which may or may not have been natural as men do usually play the dominant role in societies, politics, business ect ect….and the further back you go the more extreme it was. But it wasn't just in religion it was just about in every aspect of old cultures. But as I said, you can't deny there were Theistic girls then or now, they are free to express their creative spiritual expressions and experiences/thoughts ect ect. It's no secret really the writers of classic religious texts were mainly men but I'm not sure if that should only be attributed to religion right? that's just how most cultures were.
In ways we are anchored to religious scriptures of old because TBH people rarely except new revelations and sometimes for good reason but I've read some spiritual material from women that was pretty outstanding. They usually aren't the typical fundamentalist pew warmer though, more the free spirited hippie type. Even if you have a point here it's kinda washed up by the fact this role played out in all others ways of life when men dominated the religious arena as well as the world. Would it make a difference to ya if the Bible or any old scriptural text was written by female authors?
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@Castin
Doubt is the single most pervading emotion in my existential experience.
Get out of the mind a little, observe more instead of always chasing thoughts. I mean I know you believe you are the mind and that is understandable, but since you are the one who is observing the mind you can control what it produces. It doesn't tell you what to do or think, you tell it what to do and what it is you want to think about. Really it is your thoughts I would imagine that create the doubts, the key is to know when to shut that off and not let it control your potential or your experiences. It is your conscious soul that is observing the mind which generates thoughts but since the mind is more like a machine it will circulate unwanted junk if you are not careful. The best way to overcome this, is to practice pulling back from the mind and just observe, listen but don't let your thoughts circulate. The reason for doing this, is so you can distinguish between the nature of the created bodies and the actual soul and their purpose as well as what harm they cause, or obstacles they bring.
The emotional layer/body works much the same way only a bit trickier. Because we are dealing with feelings it is much harder to control. However, both the mind and the emotions are being observed by you, the watcher....the one looking through the physical layers and senses including the mind and emotions. Transcendence is somewhat of a generic term now, but it's a basic principle of getting away from or out of the grip of just the body and what you perceive through it alone. This is just a practice thing though as with other aspects of spirituality, I'm not being an azz or anything I'm just trying to give you a practical way of looking at it or even dealing with it. Or perhaps you want to live with consuming doubt and or like it! in that case just ignore what I wrote ;)
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@Mister_Man
"What part of "show me evidence and I'll believe it" don't you understand?"
The main thing to get you to that point, would be to have you consider evidence that correlates with the nature of God. The next hurdle would be to make you aware of what "evidence" consists of and agree with it so that at least we can get passed "show me evidence" to deeper questions. As for "outward" evidence or some sort of physical evidence you should be asking yourself "what is it I'm looking for exactly "? "what am I waiting to find or who am I waiting on to find it"?......keeping in mind that part of the solution (or problem) is the interpretation of what evidence and theories are available or what is being put forth from any particular study or proposition.
You definitely should consider that science and spirituality (Theism) are compatible for instance and that they each study a different nature, in this sense science is just a method of studying how God created the worlds while on the other hand science is not equipped to answer questions regarding the existence of the Creator and the nature of the soul so we move over to spirituality, which is congruent with the nature of the Divine. Spirituality of course being the practical application and observations of the transcendent aspect of life/existence.
"I actually do want God to exist as that would mean I'd be going to a magical perfect place full of happiness and love for all eternity after I die"
That's not quite how it works Mr. Man but I love the enthusiasm! while you most certainly could visit a heaven (or inhabit one) it will first depend on your own desires and needs both spiritually as well as what you desire in this physical world, there are many factors involved that will tie you to certain experiences or that will dictate what you must experience next. The individual soul (you) has a progressive journey in creation (some use the term "reincarnation") and there is more than two options of experience when you leave the physical body. There are literally endless experiences and bodies you could observe through and endless places you might venture beyond this one.
As a general rule of thumb the higher realms are inhabited buy souls that have spiritually "earned" or progressed through their journey to obtain that experience for no specified amount of time. This ensures the quality of existence to be much higher than what you see here in the lower realms but all souls have a chance to learn and progress. Heavens are actually planets, these planets exist within universes and there are many as well there are many other places the soul can go. God is much more creative and amazing than given credit for.
As beautiful as earth is and much of life here can be at times, it's also a hell in many ways but this is a place of learning and progressing and so it's important not to judge the idea of creation squarely on what you see in this world. You will know what I mean once you cross that side. You should ask more questions in this forum and maybe you could consider more ways of understanding spirituality and how it relates to you.
" but I don't see any reason to believe that place exists,"
Okay maybe not at this time and that is justifiable and understandable especially if you are not used to thinking spiritually and you have never experienced anything to judge by, but why don't you hang around and ask stuff, perhaps if you were to have a broader scope of what Theism consists of you would have more to consider or make sense of.
Is there any particular reason for you to not at least consider the possibility that conscious life transcends the physical sense experience? I mean look at "size" and numbers of spirituality and religious sources as a whole including spiritual encounters, NDE's and soul travel. I mean it is pretty obvious something is going on, but that is not enough that is just to get you to consider not accept. You were meant to experience all facets of life first hand you just have yet to connect with the higher conscious levels, or what some people might call "spirit", but that could change anytime during your life and if not you'll see when you leave the body. No condemnation we all grow at our own pace, but I would have you consider more things and not look at Theism as some absurdity, not that you do but a lot of people get tripped up by thinking Creationism is some kind of absurd proposition but TBH that is just perception. You may not always feel way, same with anyone else.
"or that an infinitely powerful dictator decides who goes to what place after they die, which is impossible to begin with."
Well this has some truth to it, while it is not impossible of course...the individual soul (you and I) play a bigger role and part in what we experience next and as I pointed out it is an endless ocean of possible places you can experience not just two, or one. Creation is endless, conscious life can exists on many different frequencies that is fun part about the nature of consciousness.
"No evidence =/= not wanting something to be true."
Stop doubting yourself and telling yourself things are impossible and get in the topics, as I said there are forms of evidence and there are many dynamics involved in spirituality. Ask me questions, anything you want to discuss. Anything to get you expand what you know or what you want to consider.
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@secularmerlin
Honestly this whole idea that spirituality is provable if only one is "tuned in to the right frequency" is moving the goal posts.
Lol keep dreaming sir. Nice try though, this is a statement of reality and pretty common knowledge in Theism, I'm just saying it in another way. Didn't Jesus make the claim "that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit"? in other words we are dealing with 2 distinct natures which is why we transcend the physical sense experience to acquire the knowledge that correlates with the nature of the Creator.
That isn't how proof works.
I though it was evidence? moving posts I see?
If I set out to demonstrate gravity (a real thing if anything we perceive is real) it doesn't matter what frequency you are on or what you believe the gravity is apparent and it isn't dependent on the personal testimony of others it is directly apparent to all parties. When there is any evidence like that for spirituality I will consider it I promise.
The evidence for spirituality exceeds any other subject by far. It has more testimonial based evidences than any other topic of discussion. Nice try though, you really should consider what I'm saying. Nothing new, if you don't know that spiritual experience transcends the physical you should be asking more questions TBH.
You do realize that to the majority of the world it is apparent that God exists and to all the parties involved, where have ya been?
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@secularmerlin
Is there any reason that I should accept your unreliable anecdotal evidence
So you don't come here to discuss topics and ideas and possible experiences people have had? Isn't that why we come here to create topics and discuss them after all? if I had "proof" for every topic I create what would there be to debate or discuss?? but, I do have evidence and that is the testimonial nature of Theism and spirituality including my own, being that which transcends just the physical sense experience.
That is why another type of evidence such as "physical evidence" is discarded, not because God does not exist but because of the very nature of God being "non-physical" or nonmaterial. So we are left with the other side of evidence, which is personal encounters and personal experience. But as I've said before one of the most effective ways to evaluate the evidence for spirituality is through cross referencing, we are not talking about single claims or single experiences but many and each to be examined.
over rational madman's or hari krish's? Is there any reason I should accept yours over the testimony of a scientologist or a self proclaimed alien abductee?
Case by case basis Secular, I would never have you consider something absurd however I will have you consider things outside your current beliefs and knowledge, show me the claim and then we can examine it or better yet create your own topics.
A testimony is something someone has first hand experienced. It is without a doubt a form of evidence just like the things you observe yourself. To deny evidence exists for spirituality or God is 100% dishonest unless someone has no idea what evidence consists of and that they understand the difference between proof and evidence. Do you Sec?
If you don't want to talk to me in this thread in my topic then perhaps you should take a hike? Hari is over at the loony farm you can find him there.
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@secularmerlin
My experience is all I have, I cannot rely on yours.
That would be called a testimony, your objective observations of what you experience.
Also my memory of past events can be incorrect.
May be so, but we are not talking about faulty memories.
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@secularmerlin
Which had the better track record for curing disease, science or spirituality? How about feeding people? Creating reliable housing? Keeping people warm in winter? Science is observable superior to spirituality at improving our lives and far better at revealing objective truth.
Two different natures and two different objectives.
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@secularmerlin
Personal experience is not objective.
So your testimony no matter what the occasion is never true? perhaps you don't know what personal experience means?
That is definitionaly true. That means that your personal experience cannot be considered a part of objective reality.
Then what is a testimony? no matter what you experience and what you claim can never be a part of objective reality lol, have fun with your delusions then. Everything you experience first hand is nothing more than a subjective reality. In this case, how will you ever know what is true?? you can never base your knowledge on anything you experience (testimony)….if it is not objective.
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@secularmerlin
Eye witness testimony is evidence.
Oh wow, now you're getting it.
It is also unreliable. Unreliable evidence can and should be dismissed. I have always been very clear about what sort of evidence I will accept.
Unreliable is an opinion and depends upon the source and what we are examining. You can't label all testimonials as unreliable until you can prove that.
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@secularmerlin
Its not even that we are limited by anything, it is that physical "evidence" is limited, not the reality of spirituality.
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@secularmerlin
Peer reviewed as in repeatable consistent results in laboratory conditions.
Welcome to the world of spirituality which has been shown for ages through repeatability. No, laboratory conditions will never produce spiritual conditions because that is absurd, but spirituality is based on repeatable observations, only a different nature.
As for anecdotal evidence otherwise known as eye witness testimony...
Called evidence, get that straight. Don't know why you guys accept only one form of evidence. That is intellectually dishonest.
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@secularmerlin
Testimony-
"evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something.
firsthand authentication of a fact : evidence an outward sign
Evidence in support of a fact or assertion; proof."
This is the type of evidence that correlates with the nature of spirituality because we are not dealing with any physical objects. In this sense we are dealing with more evidence than one can ever know what to do with.
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@secularmerlin
I accept physical evidence. Do you have any?
Yes, but does the nature of spirituality correlate with physical evidence besides testimonials?
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@secularmerlin
I await your link to a peer reviewed study on the subject.
Why do my observations need to be peer reviewed before you consider them anyways? are your "peers" something you put your full faith in? who are these peers I need to bring into the equation for you?
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@secularmerlin
Well you can pick and choose what source you receive information from but that only reveals your bias. "Peer reviewed" study on the subject includes that which has been recorded through spirituality and correlating sources. Are you open to that or do you only accept information that supports your worldview?
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@keithprosser
Whether souls survive death I doubt,
Doubt all you want, you will experience leaving the physical body as we all will. Don't be surprised remember what I told you.
but the writers of the OT didn't think so
I don't care.
and the Sadducees rejected the resurrection of dead in the time of jesus
The Sadducees were spiritual idiots, they had no clue what was going on.
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@keithprosser
The reality of the survival of "ethereal souls" predates Christianity, it is a fact with or without that particular belief. However, it is clear that Jesus taught the reality of soul surviving death it is no interpretation other than observation.
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Prove it not so? it's already been proven. That's how I'm able to articulate it. The information is there, what you accept is another issue and that is out of my hands.
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@secularmerlin
I don't care what language you use to refer to things that are outside the observable physical universe. You still cannot observe things beyond the observable universe so you are committing a logical fallacy any time you make any claim about them.
Mopac might be but not spirituality of itself. What is "observable" is up for debate especially in the spiritual arena. Your assumption would only be true if you had not the medium or mechanism of that which transcends the physical boundaries to be observed. You of course have a physical layer, which perceives and experiences through the physical senses and material perceptions alone but you also have several layers beyond the physical and this is where the average atheist and theist part ways. It is through the layer or observation point beyond that of just the physical body which perceives the spiritual reality on many levels of conscious frequencies, it's much like tuning into a radio channel, your channel (medium) must correlate or harmonize (tune in) with the correct frequency before having any observation or experience.
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All conscious activity exists as energetic frequencies on certain levels like radio stations/channels....Have you ever considered frequency as the denominator or correlation for spiritual communication/experience? perhaps consider conscious awareness as a level or vibration of frequency like a radio wave that has specific wavelengths that if you wish to tune in, you must establish that frequency/channel or signal before tuning in, in other words being a transmitter/receiver of types.
"Receiver" (you) being the mechanistic conductor/device of what is being transmitted, in this sense, in order that we receive spiritual frequencies (knowledge) or experiences one must have the correct channel and device to receive information on that level of frequency. Consider your being as a transmitter or conductor, where whatever channel or frequency you are tuned into or operating from is what you will experience or receive. Being only a receiver for one channel or frequency would dictate what you receive and what you could be aware of.
Same thing with spirituality really, we will receive from whatever "channel" we tune into to, or whatever channel or frequency we are consumed with observing. Just a different way of proposing why there are people who experience this and those who do not and what the differences are. If you want to experience or tune into a frequency you have never tuned into, try adjusting the channel or frequency. This is kinda how spirituality works, it challenges the individual to tune into another "channel" or frequency.
"In radio communication systems, information is carried across space using radio waves. At the sending end, the information to be sent, in the form of a time-varying electrical signal, is applied to a radio transmitter."
"The radio waves from many transmitters pass through the air simultaneously without interfering with each other. They can be separated in the receiver because each transmitter's radio waves oscillate at a different rate, in other words each transmitter has a different frequency. "
"It has a natural resonant frequency at which it oscillates. The resonant frequency is set equal to the frequency of the desired radio station. The oscillating radio signal from the desired station causes the tuned circuit to oscillate in sympathy, and it passes the signal on to the rest of the receiver. Radio signals at other frequencies are blocked by the tuned circuit and not passed on."
Perhaps your channel or station is set to only a certain "radio wave"?
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@Stephen
I've written to you the angles of that passage which are more than one obviously. In one part of that passage This is all Jesus really meant, you can't take with you …..
Is that better for ya? are you paying attention to what I'm writing? it's all in my responses. There is more than a single layer within the same passage....
1 Do not lay up foryourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thievesbreak in and steal,
2 , but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, whereneither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal
3 Forwhere your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
See that? don't put emphasis on material possessions because they do not go with you, and, "Jesus also wanted to get the point across to be mindful of what you put your desires in and what are priorities."
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"22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven."
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Verse 23 follows from 22. It was the point Jesus was trying to make, that it made the man sad he would ever lose his worldly possessions. All in all I don't think Jesus was condemning the young man more than he was just trying to convey a message relevant to" treasures of the heart".
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
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@keithprosser
I don't know why everyone likes to omit the first part of this passage because it is very important. It sets the stage for WHY Jesus said what he did.
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
One thing that is important here is that this passage came as a result of a specific individual. Jesus perceives the mans weakness and challenges it, and we see that as the man went away sorrowful. It goes back to the very principle of what Jesus was trying to convey, be careful where you put your heart, what you place your priorities in....it is not wealth Jesus is attacking but the love of wealth that is why it is imperative you understand Jesus was addressing the young mans mentality. One cannot spend their life placing their priorities around wealth neglecting the more weightier matters of life and expect to enter a paradise when they leave all that stuff behind.
The point, is that Jesus wasn't teaching us that wealth is bad in and of itself, you cannot omit the first part of the teaching because it follows as the objection was relevant to that young mans response.
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@Stephen
This is very simple, it's a pretty universal and basic spiritual principle. You don't study other religions? the meaning is quite to the point if you don't try and distort it....it just means don't get caught up in worldly attachments and desires where they become a priority over other more important things, like the things that remain with you when you leave the body or the aspects of life that involve more quality relations. Physical things and material possessions we need to survive while we are here but they are not to be put before things that truly matter, Jesus' teachings are always principle oriented, meaning they always teach you about priorities and what really matters in life.
It's the classic Christmas story analogy really, Scrooge spent his entire life valuing treasures on earth (such as stacking chips) while neglecting the more weightier matters of life. This is all Jesus really meant, you can't take with you material objects and material possessions are something we can work for but not something we should invest our "heart" in.....and so don't put them (material possessions) before things that really matter, it's a priorities scenario. Jesus also knew that whatever you put your interest in and passion towards is where your heart really is, again spirituality is always challenging the individual to look past the material frame of mind or the carnal nature. It goes back to the very first principle the Gospels refer to, that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit. The one thing I love about the teachings of Jesus is that they are principle oriented, many people get stumped by his illustrations yet they are simple to the spiritually minded individual, which is simply about organizing priorities.
So to simplify itsimply means “you can’t take it with you”.?
No, Jesus also wanted to get the point across to be mindful of what you put your desires in and what are priorities.
Why didn’t he just saythat.
Do you prefer boring teachers?? Jesus used parables and analogies because they create a mental picture/images and that mental picture can be remembered like a really good short story. Instead of rattling off a bunch of rules or do's and don'ts Jesus used parables and illustrations to get the point across and it worked. Jesus' parables are very memorable, creative and brilliant for a guy in his early thirties. Try it for yourself, come up with a parable everyone will remember for generations....the fact that Jesus was able to teach using parables at his age is quite impressive. The only confusing part is how you missed the point of such a simple and truthful passage. As I wrote above, this is basic principle in spirituality to put more emphasis on the aspects of life that really matter, spirituality 101.
Parables also allow for a more dynamic expression, meaning they have layered meanings or can have many applications.
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@Greyparrot
The earth is a pretty hostile place for most life.
It is, but then again it is the very outskirts of creation, it is one of the lower worlds in relation to other experiences. I call it the wild wild west of creation, this is basically a giant playground and one where the soul can exist at very low levels of consciousness. In other words the swing of duality is at its finest here. One thing to keep in mind is that this is not all there is, this is considered a hell realm only there is still much beauty and freedom. The law of Karma also sets the stage for much of what you see take place on this planet.
I'd rather inherit a hot tub and a house.
But while you are inhabiting the earth, you get to acquire those things if you work towards them, that is the trade off....but again remember, you will see here the full swing of the positive and negative forces even in the midst of you just living your life. If you put your interest within the positive nature of life you will get that in return now or later, but spirituality will help show what is a priority, because it understands the nature of what and who you are. Always pursue that, who and what are you and what truly matters in life?
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@Stephen
“Do not lay up foryourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thievesbreak in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, whereneither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. Forwhere your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew 6:19-21."
What does it mean
This is very simple, it's a pretty universal and basic spiritual principle. You don't study other religions? the meaning is quite to the point if you don't try and distort it....it just means don't get caught up in worldly attachments and desires where they become a priority over other more important things, like the things that remain with you when you leave the body or the aspects of life that involve more quality relations. Physical things and material possessions we need to survive while we are here but they are not to be put before things that truly matter, Jesus' teachings are always principle oriented, meaning they always teach you about priorities and what really matters in life.
It's the classic Christmas story analogy really, Scrooge spent his entire life valuing treasures on earth (such as stacking chips) while neglecting the more weightier matters of life. This is all Jesus really meant, you can't take with you material objects and material possessions are something we can work for but not something we should invest our "heart" in.....and so don't put them (material possessions) before things that really matter, it's a priorities scenario. Jesus also knew that whatever you put your interest in and passion towards is where your heart really is, again spirituality is always challenging the individual to look past the material frame of mind or the carnal nature. It goes back to the very first principle the Gospels refer to, that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit. The one thing I love about the teachings of Jesus is that they are principle oriented, many people get stumped by his illustrations yet they are simple to the spiritually minded individual, which is simply about organizing priorities.
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@Greyparrot
For it is the meek that do inherit the earth, it's the minority that disturb it. Doesn't say the meek will rule the earth.....the meek are the majority that inhabit it.
Read the rest of that beautiful passage, remembering that conscious life exists beyond this experience.
Matthew 5
And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
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And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
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Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
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Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
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Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
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Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
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Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
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Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
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Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God......
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@janesix
Happy Thanksgiving Jane, and to the rest of DA I hope yal have a great day. I'm just chillin with the family. Cooking...you know the deal. Personally I love this time of year.
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@Paul
It's not the religion that I am interested in, it's the religious people and the amusing things they say.
So you're not really here for genuine discussion because you are open to other ideas and possible truths but just for entertainment to mock people? we don't need anymore of those.
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@Paul
You are made of atoms fool, just like everything else!
When you labeled me a fool you shoved your foot in your mouth, the first one to hurl insults is the one who is a fool. Try again with some respect, or show how atoms vibrating creates conscious awareness or something alive, animated (referring to a living thing).
And atoms are constantly vibrating and jostling around, they are not sitting still they are animated.
Are you using animated as alive or not?? what does atoms jostling around have to do with awareness? how does that happen?
If you think the word animated only applies to living things than why do we call cartoons animated?
Wow, you wrote....
"You got it, all matter is animated.
There is no inanimate matter in our universe."
Inanimate-
"showing no sign of life; lifeless."
how about you define what you are referring to then, be precise when you use terms. What I've been getting at is the difference between conscious awareness and matter, animate and inanimate. I'll be taking the position of the Theist. Thought perhaps you knew I was headed in that direction. What would you like to define animated as?
Cartoons are certainly not alive, are they?
Are we referring to something that is alive (animated) or are we not? Have you been following what I have been saying?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Lol, you hear a lot about aggressive drivers and road rage, but rarely about those who cause those reactions. So in reality, who are the aggressive drivers? the one being provoked to rage or the one provoking? You naughty.
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@janesix
Probably something along those lines. "Morphic field" is just a placeholder name for the thing that organizes patterns.
When you leave this world there are places you can visit to look at past records, events and memories such as the Akashic records which is located in the causal plane or "etheric plane", ever heard of that name/place? you should look it up, most likely that will be one of the things you will get to see after you leave the physical body, many souls are shown some of the things they went through or did after they died. All events and everything we do is encoded within the fabric of an "energy" field. This is possible because not only is there a morphic field where patterns are organized all events are also stored and recorded within the very substance or quality of energy which permeates all of creation of course.
This is kind of how desires of man through thoughts (the mind) creates behavioral patterns or compulsions. Thoughts which are then reinforced/coupled with emotions generate a pattern or "grove" within that persons conscious field or energy field causing that person to experience repetitive patterns and behavioral traits. Sorry I don't mean to weird you out, I just get bored of the same old discussions around here....
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@keithprosser
Whenever you take the position that others are deluded you have barred yourself from access to something that could be true. You have predetermined that we are all deluded and as a result no matter what we share you will believe it's a delusion even if it is true. In this sense you have severely limited yourself.
That doesn't follow at all.
It absolutely followed, so much so they almost fell over one another.
Currently, I believe god does not exist - ergo i believe theists believe something false, i.e. I believe theists are deluded.
And that would mean that whatever truth they may share circulates through your filter that they are delusional. That is really irritating and not very intellectually honest.
but if i change my stance to believe that god does exist then automatically I will not consider belief in god to be a delusion nor theists to be deluded.
LOL. Wow. Are you there Keith!
I suppose you don't wish to answer either of
Which?
Are you prepared to say that you could discover something tomorrow that will end your faith in god?If not, who is it whose mind is closed?
Don't label me close minded unless you can give me an example, I don't believe atheists are deluded in the sense they believe in something that does not reflect reality. Both the Theist and the atheist perceive and accept the material world, but that is not the issue. For whatever reason you have decided to dupe yourself into believing Theists are deluded. What a shame.
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@ethang5
I know, I saw him over there starting in with his silly nonsense/insulting posts. He just can't get enough can he..
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@BrutalTruth
What reason do you have to disbelieve it?
Your claims are not evidently true.
To whom and why not?
To anyone,
So....there are no Theists that exist?
because you have presented no valid evidence to support your claims, hence my use of the words "not evidently true."
What claims do you want evidence for? you didn't even ask you went straight to "not evidently true", geeze. If you have a question or want further explaining you have to let me know, don't just jump to the ol "you have no evidence" baloney. We have to work that out. As of yet, I'm simply trying to get you to consider spirituality as a source, I'm willing to expand of that and explain why you should consider it.
what have I claimed?
That the Christian god exists.
Wrong sir, show me where I claimed that. Actually, what I did claim in this very thread was that I could argue for the Creator without the Bible. Correct? did I not say that? I'm not even claiming the Christian God does NOT exist, I have yet to claim either one. Are you always in such a rush to blow people off? settle down and we can break down whatever you want. But first give me a chance to argue my points before you go assuming things. Stay with what I actually write and this will be much easier.
what is evidently true to you that is outside the parameters of spirituality?
Anything that has been proven to be true. For example, I have a penis.
Okay, now that we are confident you have a penis what exact problem do you have in accepting or considering you are conscious soul that is using a physical body? after all, just like you have a penis, you are also a soul that is having an experience through a material body. Perhaps take a peek at my topic "who is the observer" and see if you have any objections throughout that thread.
how many claims does it take you to realize there may be something to consider?
No one is claiming that there is nothing to consider. It has been considered, and found to not be evidently true.
And why not? you keep saying "evidently" but give me an example why spirituality is not evidently true.
Evident-
"plain or obvious; clearly seen or understood."
This is most certainly compatible with spirituality. What is the problem? wouldn't what is "evident" involve perceptions as well? for many people including myself believe Theism and spirituality to be evidently true. Perhaps ask why??
So none of what you have accepted has come through a source of written material?
I didn't say that. Read what I said again.
You wrote "Written words prove nothing but that words have been written." It is what the words imply that can hold proof, and nothing within these texts proves anything."
So we're back to the same problem you said you wouldn't do, you won't consider sources that correlate with the nature of spirituality. If you were to CONSIDER it like you said you would then we could move forward, or at least ask me questions why you should consider religious or spiritual sources for insights and knowledge about God.
at what point do you ever consider claims as something that reflects reality and something you have accepted?
When said claims are proven true.
Give me an example besides your penis. Where do you get your information that something is proven?
where do you get your information from?
The empirical observation and experience of reality.
Don't be a wise ass, where do you get your information from that something is proven besides what you experience directly through your physical perceptions. Did you not know that the soul nature is not perceived through only the physical body but can be experienced at much higher conscious levels than the mind and what you perceive through your physical senses? you have layers that cover the soul in which the physical being the outermost part/layer. You can perceive through your spirit layers or what are known as subtle bodies.
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@ethang5
Lol, doubt that. He's always snooping around, even when he's banned.
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@Castin
You know I think highly of you, thanks for the good words.
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@Castin
That does sound better, but it does not sound
And as you know my beliefs are not limited to only the Bible (and that is no disrespect to the Bible, I love those scriptures or at least many of it), I'm more of a problem solver it's kinda the way my mind works and that is why I'm able to piece things together from a more whole picture and why I do not isolate only certain beliefs or insights. It's kinda funny anyone would believe that only a certain culture or religion has the only source of Theistic knowledge or the only source that acquired spiritual facts.....I mean it is almost absurd TBH. Some paths of spirituality are certainly superior to others but that is because the spiritual arena is based upon experience. Not all experiences are on the same level though they basically express in one form or another the same massive/complex reality.
like Christianity.
You only consider what a fundamentalist Christian belief claims when ascertaining aspects of Theism?? if not, then why would that really matter if what I'm saying is correct? It sounds good because it is correct, those who do not deserve to be placed in an astral prison (a hell) will not be placed within one just like you don't get thrown into prison here for no reason to justify imprisoning you, that is ridiculous however for safety reasons prisons do exist in the higher realms. If a soul did not meet the qualifications or requirements of entering a paradise they have more than a single other option. This is how creation works all the down to our level here in this experience, religion has misconceived some things (perhaps many things) but it doesn't mean it can't be worked out.
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@RationalMadman
I'm complementing you. I'm not insulting anyone. I find it a bit strange that you oppose that character though. Jesus represents all that we find pure and true, and all that we find pretentious and shallow is what He in fact opposed.
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@RationalMadman
You said I am everything he describes in that verse. That verse is full of ad hominem.
No, I said you are everything that Jesus represents in that verse....not what he is attacking.
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@RationalMadman
Yes. Why do you support the religious powers that be in that chapter? that is very unlike you, that is not your style that is why I'm confused.....
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@RationalMadman
You actually are abusing me but not directly saying it so that you don't violate CoC of this site.
I don't think so. I'm not abusing you, I disagree with your content.
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@RationalMadman
Notice what you have to reject for it to not be true!
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