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@RationalMadman
The first section of the NT what do I think of it? Complete nonsense is what I think. I am not sure what you are getting at there.Any verse where it's Jesus himself talking is a part to totally ignore as it's full of lies. Try and make sense of what he's saying, it's complete mumbo jumbo.If you do read into Matthew 23, you'd realise how much of it is pure insult and degrading to any who doubt or question him and his teachings. Jesus was a severe narcissist, that is all this reveals.
Incredible, I'm not sure you are aware of how much that chapter relates to you and your entire message. I'm actually quite set back, your entire being expresses everything within that one chapter. You don't even know your own self!! read it again....
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@RationalMadman
No son, I'm not ignoring verses. I've been reading the gospels since I was a young man. Jesus was not cunning, He was truthful. I did ask what you thought of Matthew ch.23. This is something I think you could relate to.
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I have an amazing proposition, how about we let the mods do their damn job and the rest of us engage in topics of discussions?
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@Outplayz
Then perhaps you would enjoy DDO better, where stalkers and hostile members are given free reign and discussions and mutual respect do not exist.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I worked on Robert Duvall's A/C unit in his guest house lol.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I've been wanting to watch "The Apostle" for a long time but have yet to. One of my favorite actors, heck Robert Duvall lives down the road from me!
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@janesix
Oh good question and I like this because it doesn't have to necessarily be a spiritual movie, but one that breaks molds. I'll have to think about it more but cool topic...
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@RationalMadman
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@RationalMadman
Yeah but how many verses will you ignore to prove Jesus was deceptive and not realistic and loyal?
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@RationalMadman
Okay, what do you think about them? what about Jesus strikes you as being cunning? rather than heart felt passion and loyalty?
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@RationalMadman
When was the last time you read the Gospels of Jesus?
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@BrutalTruth
What reason do you have to disbelieve it?
Your claims are not evidently true.
To whom and why not? what have I claimed? what is evidently true to you that is outside the parameters of spirituality? how many claims does it take you to realize there may be something to consider?
can you give me a specific reason not to consider spirituality? as opposed to any other study?
Of course not. To dismiss something without consideration is to be willfully ignorant.
Excellent. Hopefully you will not do that.
The information about God is there, I don't have to prove it, it is written through and through in all forms of spiritual insights. You just need to be open to consider knowledge from sources that correlate with the nature of God. There would be really nothing I could prove to you, but there is a world of facts and ideas that I could have you consider if you would just engage me for a little bit.
Written words prove nothing but that words have been written. It is what the words imply that can hold proof, and nothing within these texts proves anything. Only claims are made. This "world of facts" is nothing more than speculation.
So none of what you have accepted has come through a source of written material? lol, come on dude, you can do better than this....at what point do you ever consider claims as something that reflects reality and something you have accepted? where do you get your information from?
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@Mopac
Now we're talkin!! good for you. Ima have to go git some...
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@BrutalTruth
I have no reason at all to believe any of that is true.
What reason do you have to disbelieve it? can you give me a specific reason not to consider spirituality? as opposed to any other study?
You claim we can know gods exist? Then prove it. If you're not going to prove it(you do hold the burden of proof), then I'm not interested.
The information about God is there, I don't have to prove it, it is written through and through in all forms of spiritual insights. You just need to be open to consider knowledge from sources that correlate with the nature of God. There would be really nothing I could prove to you, but there is a world of facts and ideas that I could have you consider if you would just engage me for a little bit.
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@Polytheist-Witch
When it happens again we will both apologize again, it happens. I've known her for awhile now and I believe she means what she says. But I understand your sentiments.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Nah, I don't think so. It is never dumb to accept someone's good intent. I may have started it anyways by accident.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Lol, group hug!
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@RationalMadman
Thanks brother.
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"Higher consciousness is the consciousness of a higher Self, transcendental reality, or God. It is "the part of the human being that is capable of transcending animal instincts".[1] The concept was significantly developed in German Idealism, and is a central notion in contemporary popular spirituality. However, it has ancient roots, dating back to the Bhagvad Gita and Indian Vedas.
Almost all religions have a concept of higher consciousness in at least some sects. It was first mentioned in recorded human history in the Sanskrit Hindu texts, the Upanishads." (which was probably between c. 800 BCE and c. 500 BCE)
Spirituality has examined and covered the nature of consciousness for countless generations, it is within the arena of spirituality that consciousness can be articulated and understood. The first source to expound on this reality was Indian scriptures but has been widely proposed in almost every religion. Is this a coincidence or does spirituality have the upper hand in understanding the nature of our being and our awareness? perhaps it can reach what a materialistic proposition cannot....
"These texts provide the basic source for many important topics of Indian philosophy and all major philosophical themes are covered in their pages. In general they remain neutral among competing interpretations and they attempt to integrate most of the opposing views regarding philosophical and spiritual matters.
The purpose is not so much instruction as inspiration: they are meant to be expounded by an illuminated teacher from the basis of personal experience. In fact, one of the first lessons that we learn in the Upanishads is the inadequacy of the intellect. Human intellect is not an adequate tool to understand the immense complexity of reality. The Upanishads do not claim that our brain is entirely useless; it certainly has its use. However, when it is used to unlock the great mysteries of life, the eternal, the infinite, then it simply is not enough. The highest understanding, according to this view, comes from direct perception and intuition.
The Upanishads tell us that the core of our own self is not the body, or the mind, but atman or “Self”. Atman is the core of all creatures, their innermost essence. It can only be perceived by direct experience through meditation. It is when we are at the deepest level of our existence.
Brahman is the one underlying substance of the universe, the unchanging “Absolute Being”, the intangible essence of the entire existence. It is the undying and unchanging seed that creates and sustains everything. It is beyond all description and intellectual understanding.
One of the great insights of the Upanishads is that atman and Brahman are made of the same substance. When a person achieves moksha or liberation, atman returns to Brahman, to the source, like a drop of water returning to the ocean. The Upanishads claim that it is an illusion that we are all separate: with this realization we can be freed from ego, from reincarnation and from the suffering we experience during our existence. Moksha, in a sense, means to be reabsorbed into Brahman, into the great World Soul."
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@keithprosser
Whenever you take the position that others are deluded you have barred yourself from access to something that could be true. You have predetermined that we are all deluded and as a result no matter what we share you will believe it's a delusion even if it is true. In this sense you have severely limited yourself.
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@Mopac
I was in the church for most of my life. Nothing you can share I have not seen or experienced. And no, spiritual advancement is not always front and center in church not even close, not in Jesus' day and not now. Not saying there is no spiritual growth within the church of course, but it is not the source of it. Souls can advance with or without it.
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@Mopac
If you say there is no truth, you are wrong.
But did she say that? what I keep trying to get you to consider is that atheists have no reason to believe truth is anything other than truth. They don't correlate truth with God because it is not evident, only to us is it evident.
That is what an atheist is doing when they say there is no God.
I don't believe that. You have interlocked the idea of truth with the concept of God and while that is not necessarily wrong it is only your personal perception of what truth means.
That is why is is not right (unrighteous) to say "there is no God".
There is nothing unrighteous about it if it is just a genuine belief, it's only a perception. Perceptions are a dime a dozen but it doesn't always mean the person is unrighteous, they just have yet to accept what we have accepted. Not that it is untrue, but when you label others as unrighteous it is somewhat of an insult and you leave the person wondering why they are being labeled unrighteous. That is why I point out the objective of the principle and its purpose instead of just claiming atheists are unrighteous.
I'm confused why Theists want to push atheists away instead of bringing them under their wing. Part of that is accepting them for what they are and not labeling them and degrading them.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Understood. I like to learn new spiritual terms, it helps to push the envelope on our own knowledge.
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@BrutalTruth
We cannot know.
But, we CAN know, that is the whole point behind spirituality and the destiny of you as a soul. The difference is, the nature of what is being examined and understood and how we tap into that. It takes a little transcending the physical boundaries but this is what you were meant to do. I don't know why people force themselves to accept nothing about God is knowable, that is untrue.
You might even know things about God you have never considered because you keep limiting your potential. Many things about God are commonsense, but you were created to experience the higher realms now or later. Unfortunately it will go at your own pace and acceptance which if not careful you could waste a lifetime of what you could already been working towards.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Wyrd works different in that it gets passed on down your blood line.
I've actually never heard of the term "wyrd". Yeah I believe Karma is not restricted to a single lifetime and many times you might not see the full extent of retribution in a persons single lifetime. As a natter of fact, it is what dictates a persons future experience when they leave the physical body. Our actions and desires are what we experience afterlife. While Karma does indeed impact the individual in their current life, sometimes a single life does not teach what lessons should be learned.
For example, say I abused woman as a man and I replayed this behavior all throughout my life. In the afterlife or reincarnation I may be subject to a female body and have to experience what I put others through. This is kind of how Karma get's the point across because we have to experience what we make others endure and sometimes we can never know until we are that which we assaulted.
The reason for the bloodline thing, is because souls are sent into families and situations that are similar in nature and what they need to learn that this particular situation could simulate. So a lot of times you see what looks like generational problems. In reality it is just souls learning the same lessons that had the same line of issues. Don't get me wrong though, there are things that are passed down from generations to the next soul but they were specifically placed within that environment to learn.
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I think atheists in general have had enough verbal beat downs, maybe it's time we raise the bar and treat people with mutual respect regardless of what they believe. In the end, you will be happy that you did.
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@Grugore
The one thing I cannot stand the most is when other people put words in my mouth or claim things about me I never said and do not believe. A post like this only serves to anger people. The best way to handle it is to speak for yourself and argue atheist concerns, you cross the line when you begin to tell people what they think and believe.
Love.....would really be the only way to build bridges, I'm not talking about pretending like there are no problems but posts like these have the opposite effect of what we really want, which is for the individual to make spiritual progress. This takes a lot of work and time but certainly you can create a more genuine original topic with all the wonderful things about the Creator to discuss?
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@Polytheist-Witch
If you are spiritually weak then your standing with the gods is weak.
I agree with that. Is that why the principle is taught you think?
Do you believe in the law of Karma? or as Jesus puts it...you reap what ya sow? is that a part of your religious beliefs?
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@janesix
For my bad behavior over the last few days.
Me too, I've had a not so good month and I've been saying things I normally do not.
I misinterpreted what you said,and subsequently said some things I shouldn't have. I should have talked to you about it first.
I read my post and do understand why you thought what you did. But just so ya know I would never intentionally hurt you, in that post I was not even thinking about the problem we discussed and yes you were right, I did bring up the memory thing but again, I had no intention of hurting you it was my fault for being insensitive.
You are a great person, who has always been nice and helpful to me. You didn't deserve my bad behavior and my rude remarks.
I may have deserved it if I was hurting you, I'm glad you pointed it out because YOU are a great person....
I am not asking for forgiveness, because I don't deserve it.I just wanted to apologize to you and to say that I am truly sorry for being an ass.I am sorry.
Don't even mention it again, I love you and you probably could never change that. Thanks for this post!!
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@Mopac
No, I am Orthodox Catholic
Wow, I didn't know that. Nowadays the term "orthodox" worries me in terms of spiritual growth. Most people are unaware how massive creation is and how much there is to experience and learn apart from religious brands.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The flesh nature is nature. It's is only as weak as you are.
I agree with that actually, but the point is that the flesh has a vulnerable nature to it in general. Someone always working through the flesh only might not know it is the spirit that will elevate the person beyond the physical and beyond just this experience. The "spirit" being of course our conscious awareness away from the flesh body, the principle is meant to get the individual to switch their attention away from the flesh and its desires and to hopefully transcend it.
The only wrongs in my religion are breaking oaths and out right murder.
While that's interesting, it leaves a lot of doors open, haha.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Some principles are universal, meaning they are legit all the way across the board regardless of beliefs or different paths of religion. Your spiritual practice does not teach that the flesh nature is weak? I would think it's a universal understanding no?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Yep, Bulproof was Vegabond and Disgusted. Both which were banned lol.
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@Castin
It wouldn't be the first time I was called unrighteous just for being an atheist.
It may sound weird, but as a general rule of thumb all of us in the flesh are "unrighteous" not just unbelievers. It's kind of a spiritual principle and basic understanding that the flesh is weak, it's not really an insult to the actual person more than it's an understanding we all fall short of perfection and can aspire to the Creator. Not that we are supposed to be perfect, but that we understand where and why we should surrender to God. Surrendering puts the person in a position to receive, not surrender in a tyrannical way but in a way where we know God is our rock and fortress. It's not really meant to condemn people more than it is meant for the ego to get checked at the door. Unfortunately many things get twisted through religious doctrines and are used abusively. Creation is a cause and effect reality not a believe or not believe or you will be tortured reality, and you will never get anything that does not correlate with your actions as a general rule of thumb.
But the Bible says there is no one on Earth who is righteous, not even one.
Correct, but again it's not condemnation but a reality that the flesh is weak by nature. Which of course is the point of spirituality, to learn how to distinguish between flesh and spirit.
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@keithprosser
Of course I believe that. I fail to see how an atheist can see theism as anything other than a delusion and superstition.
Now I know what your problem is. Why would you ever close yourself off to such an important factor? do you leave any room at all for something that could be true that you may have not known or considered?
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@Polytheist-Witch
You are aware that Disgusted is Bulproof right?
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@Outplayz
The mistake most people make when someone gets banned is searching for their most recent posts, that is not the case most of the time. It's called an accumulation effect, not single posts. Like I said, unless someone is watching you may not be aware of targeting or harassment, and people can find ways to do it where it is not so evident and they can be very sneaky about it. I'm very good at reading people and this was a clean ban, and as for disgusted he got away with much more than he really should have. I could say a lot more about Goldtop and what he does but I'm not going to do that, anyone watching knows what he is up to. Those who support him in this thread are probably the same ones that laugh at his insulting posts (not you), they think it is funny because they probably also believe Theism is a joke and I believe people get off on that like a drug.
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@Polytheist-Witch
It scares me to think what would happen if a guy like Disgusted fell in power, he expresses more contempt than anyone I've ever seen and he's been at it for as long as I've been on these forums. Sad really, sad that he really truly believes his own nonsense and probably justifies his scorning of others. Close-minded to the utmost, and that alone will prevent his spiritual growth.
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@Stephen
Congratulations Castin. You have actually addressed the topic of the thread and here it is again for those who are probably purposefully missing the ACTUAL question already:Are Christians Inspired by the Bible or by The Preacher?
I would say both at times. Sometimes a good preacher can elaborate on things that the scripture might not elaborate on. Personally I don't listen to any preachers but there are a few good ones. There's about three teachers I indulge in every so often but they must meet my requirements and my requirements for teachers are really finicky.
Having said that, I fell in love with the Gospels and the Jesus character when I was a young boy about 8 years old. I would read the Bible and apply everything I thought was applicable on my own accord. TBH I always thought of Jesus as a hero and certainly inspiring. It always surprises me how others see things so differently.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Lol, if Keith thinks Disgusted is motivated by love I'd hate to see his hate in action.
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@keithprosser
I'd say Disgused has a huge heart for theists which is his 'motivation for sharing in these forums'.
Uhh, no.
It pains him that theists live their lives governed by delusion and superstition, so perhaps you and he aren't so different; you're just recruiting for opposite sides. What Gus gets wrong is thinking theists can be brought to their senses by insulting them!
You mean it pains him we exist. Please don't ever compare my heart to that guy, my heart for atheists is driven by love and no other motive. and always has been. It doesn't always come out that way, but it is true nonetheless.
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@Castin
Much appreciated. I've known you to be a well-meaning person and I can imagine what it must be like to be so constantly mocked and insulted. It would try anyone's patience. I didn't think what you said was a threat. I read it as "you'll get what's coming to you".
Well not even that, we all are going to get what is coming to us not just Disgusted. There is no conscious death and so we will all experience leaving the body and our actions dictate our future experiences. The hell comment was supposed to be separate from the leaving the body comment but I can see how they got twisted and so I do apologize for it coming across like I was saying he's going to hell that was not my intention even though reading back on it I can see how someone would think that, all in all I was mainly being silly.
My ticket would probably say hell, since I haven't accepted Jesus as my lord and savior. But I'll have to agree that one's expectations must not be too high when debating religion. Discussing religion can be a shitstorm and the internet can be a shitstorm; combining the two makes a mega shitstorm.
No, no no. See, this is a misconception and one of those ol pieces of baloney I can never change others from saying and thinking. There are more options that going to heaven or hell, it's not just one or the other. A person has to actually earn one or the other despite popular belief and despite what religion sells. If you don't make it to a heaven you will reincarnate either here or a place similar. You never have to fear that or believe that unless you live like a criminal and wish to abuse others. If you would like to understand this more just ask.
I hope you and jane patch things up btw, I was sad to see your falling out.
I love Jane, hope she really didn't mean that. We've known each other for a while now.
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@Castin
You might say I have a vested interest in how you view atheists.
Well as you might know, I have a huge heart for atheists and that has always been my motivation for sharing in these forums. It sucks though, it is a love hate relationship and it seems like a losing battle that I'll never reach you guys, everything has to be a fight or become a way to tear down the other person. That is not what I want and not my heart at all, it's just always where this seems to go no matter the discussion. Maybe that is the nature of debating religion but oh well, it's not for the feint of heart that's for sure. A guy like Disgusted brings out the worst because he is constantly antagonizing people and sometimes it is not so easy to ignore but please don't let it bother you I mean nothing against you in any way.
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@Castin
My apologies Castin. Disgusted seems fixated on death and accusing others of being scared and so I played along with him, I usually just ignore him buy yeah I got sucked in this time. It came out a bit wrong though, I actually wasn't threatening him with hell or with anything at all, rather that when the physical body dies conscious life still exists, and that will be a treat for most atheists, since they had not known it would be that way and it may come as a surprise when it happens, that's all I really meant. As for hell, it only exists for those who commit crimes against creation just like we have jails for those who commit crimes against humanity, it is a protection for those who wish to abide in peace but it is not an eternal torture pit either.
Perhaps when Bully realizes that conscious life exists away from the physical body and is a reality it may have an effect on him that he spent most of his time mocking those who just wanted to share this sort of knowledge.
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@Stephen
Let me ask you this, can you name a single name that has been more influential/inspiring than Jesus of the Gospels?
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