Total posts: 10,910
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@SirAnonymous
Once again, the lynch you pushed all DP1 was spot on. You're on a roll.
Sometimes I get it right, more often I don't. Just got lucky lol. My reads were horrible in technology mafia. But i'll take the compliment
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@Vader
Ima ask that you don't, as a common curtesy lol. I see absolutely 0 point to it, except to troll.
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Omw home, ive got stuff and things to say.
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@SirAnonymous
Relatively speaking, that is. For example, Julius Caesar's history of the Gaulic wars only has 9 or 10 copies from 1000 years after it was written. The New Testament has thousands of copies, many of which are from only a few hundred years from when it was written. Scholars estimate that the New Testament is 99% accurate to the original. The Old Testament is similar, though not quite as good. None of the passages that aren't certain have any serious theological impact.
How does something report as a fact from that long ago? I am thinking in terms of humans as a species. Do we report things accurately, especially in a time where there's no way for people to be fact checked? When they write stuff down how much of it has political or learned social biases in the narrative? A lot of people dismiss the roswell saucer sightings, bigfoot sightings, lochness sightings etc. Obviously without seeing something ourselves it's hard to validate any of that. But as a human we are prone to exageration or relaying information based on interpretation rather than what actually happened. If you tell a story to your friend Bob, and Bob tells the story to Kate, and Kate to Terry, you might notice quite a different story from what you originally told by the time Terry get's around to telling the story back to you. Classic Telephone game they play with kids in elementary school shows us how social interpretation influences a narrative, and thats usually with a small class object group of like 25 kids or less.
Now take that same story from the bible, translate it quite a few times, and pass it a long through thousands of years, I don't see how you can rely on that information safely, even assuming the person who originally made the narrative was 1. Telling the truth, 2, Not exxagerating, and 3. Not inserting social or politically learned biases into his narrative.
In that case I wouldn't believe that the person talking to me was God, unless I was dead and there was absolutely no question about it.
I once read this book about Witches and Wizards who can run trolley's through invisible walls in train stations and end up in a magical realm where they can go to school and learn magic. If anyone tries to tell me that isn't real, they are probably insane. Especially if it's some majestical belief defying being.
I know that phrasing sounds like I am being a Dick (I am not trying to be, I promise) but that's just a point I am making to highlight how wierd it would be to trust a book like that over something that looks and feels like an actual God telling you otherwise. I can't comprehend how you wouldn't take the word of God instead.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
No I don't. That was a joke.
I know it was a joke.
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@SirAnonymous
I believe that the Bible is God's Word, and that God does not lie and does not change. So if some voice claimed to be God and told me something that contradicts the Bible, then I would know that it wasn't God. That doesn't necessarily mean it would be Satan - it could just be me going insane - but I would be sure that it wasn't God.
You don't think there could be any human error in the Bible? I mean if God really approached you and had a good long talk with you and corrected many points that could have been lost in interpretation, or mis-understood, or even said the whole thing was outright not his word, you'd be more willing to dismiss it as a hallucination then accept the fact that an ancient book translated and passed down multiple times through many generations could have a single flaw in it? I find that a bit perplexing.
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@SirAnonymous
I didn't realize you liked metal.
I don't really, but I like good covers. I think I found him looking for some heavy versions of songs to make gaming montages to, and ended up listening to a lot of his stuff from there. His facial expression and wide eyed pretend "serious" look gets me everytime.
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@SirAnonymous
Most likely this.
I listen to that dude's metal covers all the time lol. I used to love his version of "Africa"
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@SirAnonymous
Another related point is that the Bible condemns extrajudicial killings. Thus, if I were to hear some voice tell me to go murder that person, I would immediately know that it wasn't from God because God condemns murder.
So in this hypothetical where God talks to us and we don't have a heart attack, if he says something that contradicts the bible you are more willing to dismiss it as Satan that acknowledge that the Bible could be flawed?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Is that you, bsh?
Think bsh1 is ever coming back? I thought he would have by now.
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@warren42
I don't remember that but you played longer than I did
Pretty sure you joined in the golden age of DDO where players were maturing and games were a lot less one sided. We started fixing a lot of those silly trends. We also just had some pretty decent players around when you joined.
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@Speedrace
Funny that everyone complains about lazy town here
My theory is that the majority of the players are lazy, which hurts mafia almost more than town in most cases since the chance that one of the few non-lazies will become scum seems much lower. While their are plenty of non lazy's on the site, it's rare to get all of them in the same game. We usually end up with like 2-3 sometimes 4 non lazies per game.
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@warren42
Town is usually OP because everyone on this site hates VTs so they give way too many roles and then mafia is up against a town with 6 PRs and 3 other people have passive roles
This was also a problem with DDO though. It was rare to see more than one vanila townie per game. I remember a time where if there was 2 Vanillas it was considered a counter claim and one of them would almost always get lynched lol.
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To prove my point on how bad some of these scum win trends on DDO were
DDO's had some insane scum streaks usually maxing out at ten, but not getting a whole lot better in between. The worst period was this:
Epic DDO, Fire and Ice, American politics, School Districts, Battlestar Galactica, HvV, Harry Potter, Christmas Mafia, Philosopher Mafia, Steampunk mafia
After steam punk there was only 2 town wins between that and the next 10 games. After the Rosario Town win, there was ONLY 1 Town win between that and the next 10 scum wins.
Out of 30 games, town only won 4 games lol. This was the the worst trend for town victories on DDO history.
For a while it evened out a bit.
Mafia went on a another big streak between civilization mafia, and movie characters Mafia, with town only winning 3 games out of 15.
So yeah DDO was known for some pretty big scum streaks. I find it very interesting and rare for people from Dart/DDO to see such a big town win streak. This is kind of record breaking in context to how this is almost never seen, which is why I am so curious and think this is fascinating.
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From the DDO archives list:
Town won 103 games of 283.
Towns total win percentage was 36.4%.
From the Dart archiveslist:
Town won 17 games of 37 (minus concept games that aren't actual mafia)
Towns total win percentage is 45.95%
Now obviously this data doesn't mean much considering the length of DDO vs DART, but I am interested in streaks and trends and the reasons behind them
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@Speedrace
Mafia kept quitting, but a lot of those gave mafia large disadvantages like in Avatar mafia
Even the two mafia wins though were very close. BAMF, supa survived by a miracle despite doc not making sense with a flipped jailkeeper, and me and sir won arrowverse on a lucky gambit that paid off, but could have easily backfired and killed both of us had intelligence not quick hammered.
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Pulled the last ten games and 3 months of data (exluding mharmans and bears game) and this is what I found:
Riddle Mafia- Town win
Avatar Mafia- Town win
uWu Mafia- Town win
Technology mafia- Town win
Arrowverse mafia- Mafia win
BAMF mafia- Mafia win
Civil war generals- Town win
Naruto mafia- Town win
Bastard states- Town win
Stormlight Archive- Town win
8/10 of the last games are town wins. My question is: What's up with this? I remember multiple complaints on Debate.org all the time how town rarely won, mafia tended to go on huge win streaks. Looking at the general balance I'd say most of these games were pretty fair and balanced, with maybe slight variables, or arguments that some are swingy, but in general I don't think those aspects would effect mafia skill all that much. I have my own theories and ideas for what's going on, but I am genuinely curious what some of your thoughts are on this trend.
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@Danielle
I think it's weird you can wind up with like 20 points from all "tie" votes.
point system here makes no sense. People get points even if no one votes for them
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@Speedrace
@WaterPhoenix
@SirAnonymous
@BearMan
@Intelligence_06
Come on peeps, day phase is ending, supa is super scummy, lets lynch this fool please.
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@Vader
Lol ok it's seriously not bullshit. It's valid and logic. I can't even think about things overnight without being scumread
Nah the logic is shit, you agreed with me yesterday which is why you unvoted. You only re voted because you thought I was afk and wouldn't call you on the bull shit arguments, but here I am so let's do this. I only didn't respond because I figured you were wising up about it, apparently not though.
1) He claims he is a pro but hasn't played in 2+ years. Metas and styles don't drastically change over time to where town believes it is acceptable to ask for mass claim
Mass claims constantly work in live mafia, and easily break the game almost all the time. His logic was actually right about that. The only reason I rarely advocate for mass claims anymore is because mods have been a lot more keen on giving fake claims then they used to be. Fake claims used to be pretty rare, but you almost have to do it these days because scum players are lazy and don't do research and just get fvcked. I can link you to a few games I've advocated for mass claims on this website. Asking for a mass claim is not inherently scummy. Also he was trying to create activity, like danielle said, so you can come in and respond to it.
2) His passive aggressive response to people asking for more justification on Water. He claimed the same defense over and over when he asked for more evidence for him to read Water
Ever heard of RVS? Your not supposed to explain RVS votes, it defeats the purpose. Water's response by voting him back was pretty scummy btw.
3) After I interrogate him, he proceeds to OMGUS me because of it and gives no justification, leaving me to believe he was frustrated
I think you sound more frustrated by the vote than he was. He was extremely calm under pressure, and even town read people on his wagon, that's the exact opposite of omgus. He probably voted you for the same reason I am, the fact that you are pursuing every stretch possible to pursue a lynch on the noobie, which is exactly what happened to me when I played on pattern. People love to dog pile the noobs, but let's be real here, this person isn't a noob. I am also like 75% sure I know who it is based on their playstyle too.
4) We are taking the position he is someone who knows the game but hasn't played. If he is acting nooby but has played, he is faking his noobiness to lead to town detriment. There's no way he believes that mass claiming is a good idea in any game he played
Wanting to pretend to be a noob isn't scummy. I did it as pattern and was town. wylted did it with singularity, and wasn't scum read every game for it, even though we all knew it was an alt account. Why are you now just applying this logic toward ayyu?
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@Greyparrot
Why don't you ask intelligence to convince me.
It's more about finding common ground at this point for a lynch since the day phase is expiring. I guess a no lynch is cool too.
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@Danielle
@Greyparrot
@Crocodile
How yall feel about switching from intell to supa? Supa is playing pretty scummy this game.
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Still down with either a supa or bear lynch, if either of these two wagons can pick up traction I am down. Supa doubled down on ayy until I pressured him, then backed off, the second I was inactive for a bit he puts the pressure back on and harder for the same bullsh1t reasons I called him out for to begin with. Supa is my preference right now.
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@Ayyantu
Ayyantu is my only townread atm based on the wagon and behavior under pressure from illogical players reading him. I'm feeling lucky this game.
My contribution will be shaky over the next couple of days.
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@BearMan
Apparently in your logic outting a role is scum and not outting a role is also scum? What the hell do you want me to do man?
Why not out your theory if you think he is scum? Why hide it
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@Vader
I'd disagree. It remained the same. I was questioning him because I was confused about his behavior. I didn't shift my tone toward and in fact kept it the same. It's also pretty annoying when you ask his reason, and then says, "lol go back and read," and his only read is from a sarcastic VTL
I find it kind of ironic you thought he was scum trying to push a mislynch when he was the only one on water, besides me at the time (I was clearly joking) but you are okay participating on a lynch wagon on him with much more support. If he was really scum going for an easy mislynch he would be on intelligence right now. The irony comes in when you consider that you are on him and the wagon is quite large, making you a hypocrite for doing the exact thing you are accusing him of doing as scum, but better.
I don't get what you're saying here. I have other option that I am considering, BearMan and SirAnon being my other people
Open minded in regards to your read on him, not other people. Scum have incentive to scum read multiple people too.
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intelligence is the one of the wagon I am unsure of, because I know how easily convinced of easy wagons he is. I used that to my advantage as scum in speed's game. Not giving him a full excuse there, but the people on the wagon that surprise me most are supa and water. Bear I just feel is straight up scum at this point, but supa needs to be questioned.
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@Intelligence_06
The things Ayantu is saying are directly a contrast to being defensive. He says he supposes the people on his wagon are town, multiple times. That's the opposite of defensive.
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@Vader
Also I have never pushed for an Ayyantu lynched. I have voted him because I have an slight scum read on him, but I never said, let's lynch Ayyantu.
Yeah but not only is your logic horrible, but your scum read on him seems to increase by him responding to you which makes you seem to double down on your read. If you were town being open minded I feel like your pride wouldn't outweigh your ability to scum hunt.
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@Intelligence_06
Ayyantu is a bit defensive in his/her/their responses. Being defensive is scummy.If I trust Water for joking and no one so far interpreted it as anything else, then Ayantu is the best candidate.
What specifically did you think was defensive? I actually though ayantu was acting pretty calm and collected despite being at l-2.
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@Intelligence_06
VTL AyyantuCurrently my best candidate.
I would like some more reasoning to back this up please.
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@WaterPhoenix
Your vote is still on ayyu from the joke RVS earlier, do you mean to keep it there?
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unvote, vtl supadudz
The push on Ayyantu feel very convienent. Obviously this person isn't new, and supa is simutaneously using arguments against him for being noob scum, while also admitting he doesn't feel new. The logic supa is using for Ayya feels absolutely horrible, and I feel like the noob train on him feels like an easy mislynch. I am getting flashbacks from my brief stint as pattern when the same happened to me, but I feel like supa should know better.
Second scum read is bearman, who is equally pushing a mislynch for as sh1tty reasons, but the fact that bearman thinks he knows his role but won't out it even though he thinks ayyu is scum makes me really nervous him. Not even sure why he would say that, except for as trying to earn town cred by seeming super smart like he did with that1user in naruto by publicly outting she thought she was the doctor. If town thinks they have info like that, they keep it to themselves. Also why pressure the guy if he thinks he already knows his role, except that he's already made up his mind to lynch them and there's conveniently a wagon of 4 there?
As of right now I'm willing to lynch supa or bear more than anyone.
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On a side note, Ayyantu is clearly anti-town at this point, lynching him will be fine by me. I'm pretty sure I know his role, but I'm not going to out it.
This feel scummy to me from bearman.
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@Lemming
I am also in a conversation with Tarif, though I find his arguments rely a bit too heavily on semantics. I claim to be a nihilist myself, and me and him seem to be stuck on whether life can have meaning for an individual even if the nihilist feels life is ultimately meaningless.
What's your opinion on the issue?
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@Ayyantu
What was the name of your old account?
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@Vader
Quick, while your drunk, whose your scum mate?
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@SirAnonymous
That wasn't quite as epic as the time Wylted claimed mafia, made it painfully clear that he was serious, and still won the game. The most amazing part was that he did it a second time. Despite the fact that he'd done it before, no one took him seriously, and he won again.
I cAsE mY rEsT
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@Intelligence_06
I am townreading you. No scum in their right mind would out it like this. You must be doing this as a joke.
Remember that one supa game, where I claimed I win with the mafia in my first post, and got written off as town for the rest of the game...? Yeah...
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cumslip!
vtl waterboipheonixguything
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Current Mafia
ILikePie5 - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Mafia
Signups
In the Hopper
Mharman - Voting: Stage 1
drafterman - Paranoia
Speedrace
Lunatic- The Stand
SupaDudz - The Disastrous Life of Saiki
Bullish
BearMan- Third Parties Mafia/ Deathnote Part 1 Mafia
On Hold
zaradi, Virtuoso, PressF4Respect, crocodile, RM
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@Ayyantu
Your not new are you?
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@Greyparrot
no sir, played starcraft 2 mafia though. it's kinda fun
There is a guy on there who literally plays just like you and has been around mafia forums just as long as you. I think you have an alter ego! His name is Not_Mafia
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@Greyparrot
I am town tracker. Hi!
Do you play mafia on mafiascum?
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@WaterPhoenix
long time no see homie. Whats your affiliation
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@Danielle
Yo, did you get a good fake claim this game?
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