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@Mikal
It's okay. Your read accuracy is as good as your gambling luckAnd no I'm not backing down and the fact you aren't willing to even acknowledge it after how last night played out is a joke
I mean the joke would be funny if you could back it up lol. I tried warning you of a judas/saulus and you decided not to believe danielle would put them in the game remember?
Again, your refusal to accept the results of what I did last phase is similar to Trump not accepting the results of the election. How's that for funny?
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@Danielle
Attention! I just wanted to let everyone know that with Trump's loss, no matter what happens in this game, we're all winners! GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GOD BLESS DDO/DART/DISCORD MAFIA ***throws confetti and blows noisemaker*** Now let's get back on track:
True this!
Wish I didn't work today so I could celebrate lol
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@Mikal
I absolutely do not think we should town confirm luna and we should prob move past that for the same reasons in live mafia. There is no way to prove it and if he is scum , he's set this up so we'll it will be near impossible to build a case against himWe should not insta town confirm him and keep that thought in our mindIf anything use last night as precident
Lol okay mike. If being mod confirmed by a riddle, and succesfully leading a lynch on a scum isn't enough to convince you I am town, I can be confirmed by another player. I won't say who or how, but it will eventually come to light when it's revealed naturally. Make of that what you will.
Also do you have no other scum reads besides me? I know you are often guilty of tunnel vision, but this new is a whole new level of autistic.
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@Mikal
Mikal, your credibility is lost.
I don't think danielle copied the role you were last game.The idea of not testing you in that game vs this is entirely different. There are different ways to solve it without testing the claim with the amount of players in it Why test it when other roles can likely solve it and save us multiple day phases.To fake claim as scum he has to be willing to die and have a role that would make it worth. Don't buy it as his first post without seeing how the game unfolds. So I'm going to keep assuming he's telling the truthDef ignoring you being a pr and this for balanceHow does the cop idea only work after we lynch him. What?? Lul
A large part of how I was going to read you this phase was going to depend on your reaction to being wrong this phase. The fact that you don't have a shred of humility here and are still trying to push a lynch on me is you doubling down. It feels like your backed into a corner, instead of accepting that you were wrong, which is a scum tell for you. You getting defensive instead of owning up to the fact that you tried to lead a mislynch on a mod confirmed player who soft claimed vig to you way before hard claiming it, is scummy.
You sticking to your narrative dsepite all the plethora of roles I listed to you that countered your argument that pie was stupid townie, was extremely scummy. The cloest thing to a rebuttal to any of that was "I don't think Danielle copied the role you were last game". The first thing you do is continue a scum read on me based on a live mafia game I designed nearly a month ago that included a mafia with an extra kill, (a role I amde up and have never seen before) and your first gut instinct is to doubt a vig exists in hopes to push a narrative that there are two mafia sided vig games in a row, made by two completely different moderators lol. Your argument isn't only laughable, it's pathetic, and I think telling that your likely scum here.
unvote, vtl duhhamburglar.
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@SirAnonymous
That's one thing I legitimately don't understand about my own play. How does someone who posts as much as I do stay under the radar?More seriously, I should work on my own reads. I should have them up later today.
You stay under the radar because you aren't usually controversial. You are pretty agreeable for the most part, or don't take a heavy stance unless it's a big issue. That's my perception at least. Active or not, you aren't as likely to get in big chain back and forths because you will most likely agree with some of the points of your opponent sometime along the way. It's a good thing though, means you are open minded, and I tend to town read humility. In your case that could bite me in the butt, because I am sure you would play similarly as scum, the only problem is I feel like you would be more aggressive if you had the leverage, and you definitely could have had the leverage last day phase to not get on board with the pie lynch, which was thought to basically be a VTNL. You could have easily pushed to get a lynch harder than you did. As mafia I feel as though you might have. Though then again, maybe you thought I was making a more convincing case for the lynch of pie and didn't want to appear scummy by not complying, but with the wieght of oro and mike on the "no lynch pie" mindset you could have easily sided with them instead. I also realize the riddle town confirming me might have played a part in your decision to go with the pie lynch, though there was enough doubt cast on the validity of that riddle at that point that it wouldn't be too wierd not to be on board with it. That said, you made the right decision and it has to count for something, even if a minor town read.
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@SirAnonymous
Actually you were supposed to be in my town pile too. Though im always going to be a bit weary of you because your smart and good at staying under the radar. However I town read humility generally and you caving to my logic of lynching pie yesterday happened at kind of a pivotal point when mafia could have easily detracted that lynch and used it to counter FOS me. You never took the bait from Mikal though and ended up voting pie even though you didn't seem entirely convinced it was the best move. But you could have easily flipped the whole wagon off of pie at that point so you get some town points for now.
Again I take all of this with a grain of salt, mafia most likely didn't know pie was judas, so they might not have been entirely opposed to lynching pie, though a mislynch is generally favored more. But I don't get the vibe you had any lynch target in mind and were even defending GP at the start of this phase. I feel like when we were scam in speeds game you had showed a hint of wanting to pursue any lynch a little more than you are here, because as mafia lynching is preferable to no lynching.
Tentatively town for now.
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Town reads
LikeMagic- Town because of her non-reaction to mikes test. I have a pretty solid basis for understanding she should be town, so she cannot be lynched any time soon.
Greyparrot- Was generally on board with the logic yesterday for lynching pie prior to my claim. Scum didn't have any incentive to lynch pie yesterday, since it's clear that they more than likely had no clue there was a judas. Grey was one of the few to back the pie lynch with little convincing. You can spin this as him trying to earn town cred, and I am not opposed to looking into him again later if his behavior requires another look, but as far as I am concerned, he's earned the town cred at least temporarily, as of this time I have no reason to question his motives.
Scum reads/ gut tells
DuhHamburglar- I will pass off him being extremely wrong about ignoring the judas as a null tell; I think Mike has a hard time grasping things he doesn't want to see. That's fine, but something else about him still doesn't sit right with me. One of the few things I town read him for was his spurge of activity after I informed him the game was up, whereas if he had a scum role on discord he likely would have known about the game earlier. That said, Mike is smart enough to see that and may have strategized waiting until being pinged to come post. I am still suspicious of him, and will be paying close attention to his behavior in dp2.
Misterchris- Seems much less active and engaged this game; I take it with a grain of salt the elections are occuring, but I have only seen him as scum once with me in U.S. generals mafia, and there he was more reserved and inactive, whereas the times I have seen him as town he seems more receptive, active and engaged. This isn't solid reasoning to think he is scum, but I am keeping a closer eye on him because of it.
Null
Speedrace- Seems to be playing to his town meta so far as I am aware. I kind of want to psyche around hoping the mod wouldn't have made him scum since he was asking not to be made scum, also his town playstyle usually comes off similar to how it is now where seems like he's around just watching, playing passively until something strikes him as scummy (like the way he voted mikal last day phase middle of the way through). He hasn't given me anything to scum read him for, so null for now.
Intelligence- Hasn't seemed all to active or helpful so far.
Supadudz-- Hasn't seemed all to active or helpful so far.
Vtl misterchris, his slot is bugging me most right now.
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@SirAnonymous
How many hints? You never be sure! I'll tell you there's six but technically more.I wonder what that means?
I am wondering if it's how many townies there are? Technically more might be joint winning 3rd party.
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@Greyparrot
It's odd night phases only, and only if it ends in a vtnl. That said, no way mafia won't role block or kill me now. I wasn't a threat last night if I was targetting pie, they probably figured I was wasting the kill.
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@Greyparrot
do you think scum knew pie was a judas?
Hell no, there's no way they would have let me kill him if so. They were probably confused by pie's actions. Knowing pie was judas should give us a lot to analyze in interactions from last day phase, though I'll have to focus on that tomorrow.
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@SirAnonymous
Gotta give it to you. You nailed it. Well done.
Thanks. I really hope this was a wakeup call to mike who would rather have ignored a plethora of other roles existing to buy that pie was just a stupid townie lynchproof role lol
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Playing live mafia tonight, so won't be super active til tomorrow.
Also anyone wanting to play live mafia here's the link: https://discord.gg/sQ9QXdVx
Surprised af I wasn't roleblocked or killed.
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@Speedrace
Doesn't your role confirm Pie then
My hope was to use it tonight to confirm pie. Now I have to gamble through a potential roleblocker.
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@SirAnonymous
That has some serious issues if we end up in MYLO. That is, there won't be MYLO, because your role turns MYLO into LYLO.
Theres no way I make it to mylo lol
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Fvck it. Claiming.
I am compulsive vigilante. If a day phase ends in a no lynch is I have to kill someone that night. I cant kill unless the day phase ends in a no lynch. I asked danielle and her answer was vague but sounded like certain roles would trigger a no lynch upon death so I am assuming if pie is lynchproof the day counts as ending in a no lynch and I can shoot him testing his claim.
This is why I am arguing so hard against mikes point about this not being testable Dp2. This is also why I was opposed to lynching oro to test this since its a waste.
I am claiming because I am actually worried pie won't end up being lynched now.
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@oromagi
....and DP1 the only people who don't act like everybody is SCUM is SCUM. Why not treat you as SCUM? I have no reason to trust you. In fact, if Dani is assigning roles this game you are more likely to be SCUM than most.
Why?
Also Danielles clue literally says Luna is town. If that isn't enough for you nothing will be. Regardless your read on me means nothing if your aren't pushing my lynch. The argument for lynching pie still stands though and your lack of continued response to it demonstrates you don't have any more arguments against it.
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@oromagi
You did this last game we played and the answer was two games ago so I guess the answer is now three games ago
Three games ago was uWu which I hosted. The one before that was technology and you were definitely scam reading me on that one.
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It wasn't that hard, you have a tell.
I challenge you to find a game we have both played in where you haven't scum read me.
I dont trust your tell is a good as you think it is. Im noy only town but town confirmed and you still don't trust me. You never will.
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@oromagi
I think if somebody hammers Pie and the DP1 instantly ends, VIG or similar should kill Pie even without an investigation
Agreed
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@oromagi
exactly. IF he balks, we have him.
How if you assume he cant be lynched?
I know. scum is shy that way.
*rolls eyes* yep you got me. That was me openly admitting to being scum. Great detective work.
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@oromagi
If pie is scam he has no incentive to hammer you. Also there's another reason why I want pie lynched so badly and id rather not say what it is.
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@oromagi
I was so pissed off by Greyparrot's dirty tricks that I had to take a breather before responding
That's why I don't participate on the website much outside the game forums. I love all the mods personally, and think of them as friends, but they aren't willing to use enough discretion. Not being able to interact with another user because they are offended by your views is pretty ridiculous when they could just choose to ignore you.
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@oromagi
That was cut & paste from mafiawiki. NOT commentary on your heedless zeal for quickfire lynch.
Well then you are victim to your own qoute based on your prior inactivity lol
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@oromagi
As Town, remember that there are consequences to attempts to eliminate you; the wasted day can be a real issue, so you don't really have license to play scummily or gambit (like you would with Innocent Child).
If the day was wasted, you should have been more active earlier than. You think you can lead a better lynch in the time frame? Based on any real good reasoning? The argument for testing pie at worst case results in a no lynch, which is most likely to happen regardless.
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@oromagi
LYNCHPROOF is an interesting possibility that TUF is failing to mention
I've mentioned scum lynchproof multiple times, though I'd assume it is 1x over perma. If the vig dies then the game is unwinnable.
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@LikeMagic
Can I have your top town reads first please?
Mikal, greyparrot, and tenatively speedrace are my town reads right now.
Mikal for reasons stated earlier, grey is acting the same as he was in the last game we played in where he was town. Speedrace, because of him revealing the mod confirmation thing.
I slightly town read you if you see eye to eye on the pie thing.
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@oromagi
All right, well I'm going to out my role for TOWN's consideration.I am SUPER SAINT. I kill whoever hammers me.So I know ofone TOWN role that kills on hammer + Pie is begging to be hammeredJust thinking about game balance, the other hammer role is far more likely to be SCUM. Trouble.TOWN should find someone else to lynch and VIG Pie at the earliest opportunity.
None of this changes the need to lynch pie. It just erases the possibility he is hunter.
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@LikeMagic
Why do you keep referring to his role as lynchproof? It is allegedly deathproof.
potato patato
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@ILikePie5
@Speedrace
@MisterChris
@LikeMagic
need one more for the hammer guys.
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@oromagi
This whole thing feels like your scum game.
Imagine oromagi scum reading me in literally every game, even the ones where the mod confirms me on the first page. Super surprising lol.
- If we lynch a HUNTER DP1 then Pie is way, way more likely to kill TOWN than SCUM- doubling our losses
I don't dis-agree, but that isn't a good reason not to test the claim. If I were scum, it's still not a gamble I'd be willing to take though. Not just me, any scum. No scum should want to gamble with a hunter.
- If we lynch a SAULUS, we make a third (fouth?) SCUM. Maybe we have COP who might catch this but then we reveal the COP and maybe they have RB.
Lynching a saulus makes a townie. Saulus starts as scum, it was the role I had in the last game. I was also never going to be tested, and could have scum sided easily. Only got lynched because I wanted to town side and told town to lynch me in dp4.
This logic your applying would apply to a Judas. However even then, the cop doesn't have to out his results until pie is likely to be lynched, and the potential for mafia to roleblock cop np1 would be pretty low. Low enough that its a ridiculous argument against trying to test him.
- If we lynch a JESTER we lose- but you don't seem to care too much about that
If the game continues after the jester lynch, no I don't care. I have always thought third party easy win roles are retarded, it's why in speed's game where I was lyncher I said the same multiple times, and townsided even after losing. The game is about fun, easy roles like jester and lyncher need to be modified severely to be balanced correctly. If danielle actually put a jester in the game where the game ends after one is lynched, she is kind of shooting herself in the foot there. I could care less, on to the next one. Likely the game will continue though if we lose to a jester.
I think we should be avoiding a lynch of Pie DP1. For some reason, Luna's urgency feels like a SCUM gambit.
None of your above points are an argument against lynching pie. Please help me understand.
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@oromagi
If you think he is SCUM and he is obviously looking for a lynch, why do want to lynch him? I think he is obviously lying and obviously a PR (Bearman's Rule of Pie) but Pie is usually more risk adverse when playing scum. .
It's not about whether I think he is scum, my arguments thus far about about pointing out all the utility in testing his claim.
If he is saulas, or hunter, his motivations make sense as town. We still need to lynch him, if he is hunter he wants to use his role. If he is saulus, it helps to have him win with town early and a cop can potentially verify him. If he isn't lynched and is saulus he just will look guilty on a cop report and we made no progress and wasted an investigation.
If he is jester, he is scum, and I think mostly people don't care about losing to a dp1 winning jester and just going for second place.
If he is Judas, and copped tonight, we will know to lynch him again.
If there is a vig or other killing role they can potentially test deathproof after we lynch him.
We lose nothing from lynching him today, and everything from doing it.
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@SirAnonymous
I 'm not unquestionably buying anything. My conclusions are my own.
Okay then so why delete the part that proves him wrong then?
If he's hunter, than nope. If he is saulus or judas, we have to lynch him for accurate cop results, both of which can clear pie for tomorrow, or suggest he is a lynch. We only have to lynch him twice if there are no results confirming him, and buy into the 1x lynchproof theory.
I do see your point that we might not have to lynch him twice. However, lynching him once only gains us anything if we get results or if he has this or that role. That's a gamble. It might be the right gamble, though. I'm not sure.
Is there an alternative lynch that you feel is solid enough to detract from the importance of testing pie? What are the consequences? This day phase all it results in is a no lynch if he's telling the truth. If you don't want to test him day phase 2 considering he wasn't hunter or jester and there are no results, than make that case there. I just don't see a reason not to lynch or test him today. There literally is no good reason other than someone else scum slipping or being mod confirmed scum or something.
No. Because more people are town than are scum. Pie is too eager to be lynched. That's suspicious; it's far from conclusive.
Did I say it was conclusive? Nothing is ever conclusive, especially day phase 1. Results can be tampered with. I know this better than anyone. Regardless, you can't deny his behavior doesn't make sense if he's telling the truth. It's more likely a scum gambit, or a town gambit, but even if it is a town gambit, it relies us lynching him for it to work. I need a solid reason not to lynch him today. If you wanna argue about tomorrow, do that then. Why not today though? Waste of a lynch? Whose your alternative?
All that is to say that you could be right about lynching him, but I'm not sure. However, I do know one way to be a little more sure.
Asking pie for more info on his role is pointless, IMO. If he is claiming lynchproof he literally has no incentive to be active or give any more info than necessary until he is close to being lynched dp2.
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@Greyparrot
Considering how much I disliked your playstyle at the end of the last year, it's ironic your now one of my favorites lol.
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@Greyparrot
@Vader
@oromagi
@MisterChris
Any of you able to talk some sense into these people about testing the lynch proof?
I feel like I'm smashing my head into dry wall talking to them.
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@SirAnonymous
I would recommend against a career in mind-reading.
I don't even remember what this is in reference to.
That's possible, but it's also possible that he's just being dumb town.
Pie can be a bit stubborn, but I wouldn't call him dumb.
The trouble with lynching Pie is that we would have to do it twice
Not neccesarily; This is where you are buying what mike is throwing down without questioning it. If he's hunter, than nope. If he is saulus or judas, we have to lynch him for accurate cop results, both of which can clear pie for tomorrow, or suggest he is a lynch. We only have to lynch him twice if there are no results confirming him, and buy into the 1x lynchproof theory.
think it's quite possible that you're right and that we should lynch him. However, I think stupid town is more likely. If lynching Pie once was sufficient, I'd probably vote for him. But since we would need to lynch him twice, I think the risk outweighs the gain.
Why is stupid townie more likely than any of the other options? Because you want it to be? I can't believe mike is selling people on this faulty logic. lol
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UVC
SirAnon (Greyparrot) -- 1/6 votes
Pie (Intelligence, Supa, Lunatic) -- 3/6 votes
Hamburgler (Pie, speedrace) -- 2/6 votes
Lunatic (Hamburgler) -- 1/6 votes
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UVC
SirAnon (Greyparrot) -- 1/6 votes
Pie (Intelligence, Supa, Lunatic) -- 3/6 votes
Hamburgler (Pie) -- 1/6 votes
Lunatic (Hamburgler) -- 1/6 votes
Mikal (speedrace) -- 1/6- Speedrace
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@Speedrace
we gotta lynch pie today. We can look into mikal later. Mikal does this type of dumb stuff as town too though. I had to power role claim once in a forum game on mafiascum because he was too tunnel vision to catch an onslaught of hints thrown at him. Also you've played enough live mafia with mikal to know he latches on to dumb shit and ignores what doesn't fit his narrative to the point where he will push for the thing he wants until it happens. It usually results in plenty of mislynches, but god forbid the few times he is right gives him a god complex so he continues to play like that.
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@Mikal
Get a lynch on him and see if it's in shambles. You won't be able to
I mean, we are pretty close to it already, but okay.
I don't think there is a way in hell danielle just auto town confirms you for balancing purposes.
Well you are wrong. Sad thing is it would take a mislynch for you to see it and considering how sacred you thought those were earlier one when you were arguing, I would think that would be a big deal to you. But it's not because how dare someone contradict your silly, wild, conspiracy theory lol.
I also think there are ways we can evaluate his claim without having to waste 2 dayphases. I don't buy he's fake claiming for all the aforementioned reasons.
Lynching him day phase 1 doesn't necessarily mean we will waste two day phases. I've explained why 100 times now you just don't wanna see it.
To fake claim as scum he has to be willing to die and have a role that would make it worth. Don't buy it as his first post without seeing how the game unfolds
This logic is exactly how scum almost won in dp3 of the last game lol. I would have never been tested if I didn't decide to town side, and mafia could have easily won.
To fake claim as town is just stupid which is still possible but either way don't want to lynch it.
You are right. To fake claim this as town is stupid. It's more likely he is scum fake claiming. If he's hunter we will find out shortly.
So I'm going to keep assuming he's telling the truth
Ignorance is a plague.
If you think your case is good , get town to lynch him and lead them off a cliff or on a 2 dayphases journey where we probably end up in mylo.
Imagine town reading someone as stupid townie so much that you ignore a bunch of other possibilities that don't fit your narrative. That is stubborn beyond belief.
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@Mikal
Def ignoring you being a pr and this for balance
Ah yes, like you just ignored many other possibilities that contradict the thing you want to be true. This is like trump not being able to accept the election results because it doesn't fit his narrative lol.
Lawyer can negate the result. We just don't say when we are investigating him.
Your whole argument in favor of not testing pie banked on a cop or vig testing him tonight lol. Your case is in shambles my man.
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@Mikal
How does the cop idea only work after we lynch him. What?? Lul
Do you read anything I post, or just skim and start typing "He's contradicting me, I must reply, fvck knowing what he is actually trying to say!"?
Judas and saulas are both roles that change affiliation post lynch, but doesn't result in the person dying.
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@Mikal
The idea of not testing you in that game vs this is entirely different. There are different ways to solve it without testing the claim with the amount of players in it Why test it when other roles can likely solve it and save us multiple day phases.
It's the exact same, however if I was investigated at any point I would have looked guilty, even though I was playing saulus to a town meta. Lynching first and investigating second guarantees more reliable results. Also we don't know a vig exists, so we are still banking a lot on the cop here. Also you seem to ignore the possibility of a lawyer which also means that "testing" it by not lynching it is equally unreliable.
Also inno child flips third dp after multiple day phases where it can be night killed or lynched. This is basically the mod saying"Look a townie"
Some innocent townies are revealed day phase one, though it is more common for late game townies. Also you still are ignoring the potential for me being a townie power role, and that being that balance.
You are basically doing everything in your power to disregard anything that doesn't support your conspiracy theory.
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@LikeMagic
I thought you were arguing at one point Pie as scum and lynching him twice. Did I misread that?
No, I am still willing to double lynch him in the case that he is lynched, isn't jester, isn't copped or vigged tonight to further confirm. That said, there are a whole lot of ways that doesn't happen as I've just pointed out.
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@LikeMagic
I do not scum read you for that. I do think you embraced it on the towns behalf too readily. But my main thought is lynching you informs us far more.
You, like Mikal, are dis-regarding that there could be balanced reasons for the mod confirmation like me being a power role. Or the fact that innocent townie is already a common enough role that doesn't get discounted as OP. It also is likely danielle didn't think people would pick up on the riddle so fast. "informs us far more" not really. You learn that the mod wasn't lying, which should have been pretty obvious already, and now you are down a mislynch, something that mikal seems to think is a big deal seeing as his whole case for not testing pie relies on not having enough mislynches to win the game lol.
I agree with him on testing Pie in the sense that if we lynch Pie and he doesn't die, people will still be suspicious, which accomplishes nothing. We then spend the next DP arguing about what it does and doesn't mean. I don't agree with him that you wanting to lynch pie is scummy. My instinct was to lynch him too and I am still not sure I agree that him not dying doesn't confirm his affiliation or even tilt the read. But if the majority of players do not agree on that point then how does it help the team in hunting scum. It is not worth arguing about a thing like that for multiple DPs.
Mikal himself is the one who pointed out that a cop could very easily solve the dilemma to the point where this isn't an issue dp2. But the cop investigation only works if we lynch him first, considering how I pointed out how many different post lynch affiliation changing roles there are. Chances are much better that this isn't an issue dp2 by testing him today. Not testing him today, means this will 100% be still an on going issue going into next day phase.
My read of your typical play is that you as town would be more inclined to see the "town confirmed" riddle and react something like: "interesting, weird the mod would do that. I am town but that doesn't mean any of your should believe it necessarily."
Where have I ever been town confirmed in the past and said anything like that? I don't think you can substantiate that I would have ever said something like what you suggest you think I would say. I think my response was perfectly normal in light of the fact I know I am actually town.
I do not agree you are 100% confirmed town and certainly do not agree scum would kill you. I hate when people make NK predictions like that. We are almost always wrong because 1) we don't know who scum is, 2) we don't know the dyamics between the scum team, and 3) we don't know how their roles or knowledge are influencing their game
It definitely paints a target on me, danielle's post. Though as I've pointed out, I think the FOS from you and mike actually helps my longevity, and considering it isn't particularly convincing, I don't see enough people getting on board with your logic to actually lynch me. I think your logic is doing me a favor if anything. That said, I do think you need to pull your head out of your butt enough to see that lynching pie is the right move here considering all the potential roles he could be. Lynching him also makes cop results more reliable, so there is almost no reason not to test him today.
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