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@Mikal
I'm saying I can't see a mod writing something that is so obvious that it would auto kill you.
What about the innocent child role? What if it's to balance me being a potential power role? There are reasons to balance what she did, again, this logic is at best null.
I can see her giving mafia the option to submit something and writing out something like that and trying to run with it is something you would do.
It's a baseless gut theory. You can't logically pursue a lynch over an astromine level conspiracy theory lol. That's how me and max lost all our allies on conan.
The main thing is your death allows us to confirm the validity of the riddles and whether or not we can trust them.
The consequences of being wrong don't support the benefit of taking what the mod says as prima facia true lol. You just waste a mislynch and go "okay cool now what" when you literally have the opportunity to test pie now with no consequences. I remember laughing to you and max playing BDO about how dumb town was not to test me and you agreeing with that. Why the 180 lol
The scum read is you not even second guessing it and just being like"Yep ....hehe ....I'm town confirmed "
I mean, I am town. Why would I second guess what I already know to be true from my role pm you dingus lol
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@SirAnonymous
Yes, they are my words. However, confirming town goes hand in hand with POE. Again, I'm not saying it's a good reason. I'm just saying it's a reason that might make Pie think it's a good idea if he didn't put much thought into it.
I think there is a 0 % chance this is likely, and I think deep down you do to. The only town motives he has behaviorally for acting the way he is, is if he is hunter or saulus. In which case lynching him is still the appropriate move.
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@Mikal
Don't see danielle auto confirming a townie dp1But luna's death lets us see the accuracy of these riddles so we aren't debating them.Magics summary is pretty spot on.
You not wanting to believe the riddle means I am at best null lol. You need an actual behavioral reason in order to pursue a lynch. One based on logic, not one that ignores that a plethora of roles exist to support your theory that pie is an idiotic and un helpful townie.
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@Mikal
Played with Luna enough to know he questions everything. Also this gambit is up his alley.
Gambit, what gambit?!
That riddle is bastard modding period. If written by the mod.
Is the role "innocent townie" bastard?
Either insta kills a townie first np
There in proves why it isn't bastard lol.
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@SirAnonymous
"I’m DeathproofI can’t be killed in the night nor in the day by lynching. I urge everyone to LYNCH me today so that I may be confirmed in my assessment." Pie, from Post 35.Whether it would actually accomplish POE is irrelevant as to whether he thought it would.
POE is your words, not his.
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@LikeMagic
I would really hate to say this, but Mikal is making sense.
In regards to his suspicion that the mod riddle confirming me? Or "wasting two day phases" logic?
Honestly I could careless about whether you believe I am confirmed from the riddle or not, at best it should be a null thing. I don't see how you could actively scum read me based on not trusting the riddle lol. If I had done something behavioral that's another thing. But if you agree with him on anything related to not testing pie, then you have lost your marbles.
I think it is very bastard to have a misinformation riddle, but at this point my thoughts are we should either lynch Luna or not lynch this DP. Comment #12 bothered me too, when I read it but it was just a gut check. In hindsight I think Luna embraced the riddle too willingly.
I mean I am town, so I know the riddle is correct. What universe would a townie being town confirmed not willingly embrace a town confirmation? Also I was more put off by it then I was was grateful to it as it denies likely longevity in the game.
I feel like Luna is usually more inclined to point out that nothing is certain and no information is guaranteed as town. Also, lynching Luna has the benefit of informing us whether we can rely on the riddles and will provide retrospective reads on a bunch of players. But I am also okay with VTNLing.
So you would rather lynch a confirmed townie than someone who actively claimed a role dp1 instead of letting mafia waste a night kill on it to prove whether the hints are to be taken seriously or not. That is ridiculous.
If everyone disagrees on whether lynching Pie and him not dying this DP proves anything affiliation-wise, then this shouldn't be on the table anymore.
Not everyone dis-agrees with that. Literally it's just mike, and potentially you. I can't tell where you currently stand on this, but there is empirical evidence that I have pointed out that demonstrates why it's a good idea.
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@Mikal
If he is hunter and reads wrong we lose 2 town
Right, we blame pie if that's the case. We still test him though, over the liklihood he is scum.
If he is jester then idc either way
Same
I don't think danielle copied the role you were last game.
Maybe, maybe not. Just cuz you don't think so doesn't discount the possibility.
What is likely going to happen.He is telling the truth which is why he wants to be lynched. He won't die.
There was no motivation for him to claim that role dp1 then. You are buying into the argument that he is an idiotic townie WAY too easily.
Then we are going to sit around with our thumbs up our ass trying to figure out if we believe him or not to get to the conclusion that role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation to likely lynch him either way
If he wasn't tested by a cop or vig at that point, then yes, I am willing to lynch him again. For this to happen, again you are assuming every thing didn't happen because you didn't want to be proven wrong. There are a bunch of ways this doesn't have to result in two pie lynches, and you are assuming the unlikely probability that it will based on extreme factors, but yes, even in the extreme factor where you are right, I believe he is worthy of a second lynch.
Let this solve itself and not waste 2 dps
It doesn't solve itself with a cop, as I've already pointed out to you. We aren't wasting anything here, most dp1's tend to end in no lynches anyway. If we no lynch from lynching him, it makes the cop results that much more reliable.
Or a very likely misvig if he's a hunter
If we lynch him today, there is no likely mis vig. Assuming there even is a vig.
It practically stumps me you are saying there is a hunter and you are willing to let him shoot blindly because "he trusts his reads"
There is just as good a chance he is hunter than he is any of those other roles I mentioned. If he misshoots as hunter, there's not much we can do.
Wtf lmao. What reads. He hasn't even been in the dp other than to claim that or see the results of what has happened.
And yet you are passing him off as idiotic town lol. More likely he is scum behaving like this, right?
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The only option we waste 2 day phases, is if he is scum 1x lynch proof and there are cop or vig actions confirming him by dp2
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@Mikal
That shit is 3 years ago. We have did some crazy stuff in live mafia since then with fuckery and ways to town confirm yourself as mafia and she has been in nearly every game
Danielle has only played in a couple of games since that game 3 years ago, and was killed night phase 1 or 2 in almost all of them. I would say she is probably still prone to follow old habits, especially considering she followed the same habits in her games prior which were also years apart.
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@Mikal
That's entirely my point. Then why waste a lynch on him when it solves itself and we won't waste 2 dps if he is telling the truth about lp
It's not wasting a lynch on him if he is any of those other roles.
If he is hunter, then he is town and lynching him allows him to take down potential scum with him.
If he is Saulus, not lynching him and having him investigated will have him result in a guilty, even though he would win with town post lynch.
If he is Judas, not lynching him and having him investigated will make him look town, even though post lynch he would win with scum.
If he is Jester, he will just appear guilty, and we still lose when lynching him.
If he is vig killed he was lying about deathproof, and we don't waste a second day phase.
AGAIN STOP IGNORING THE PLETHORA OF OTHER ROLES AND INSISTING THAT WE ARE WASTING 2 DAY PHASES, there is no logical sense to this lol
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@Mikal
Not saying she is a bastard mod. But I can see her putting a role in the game where mafia can write a riddle. She literally made one in live mafia (or was in one) where I could send posts from the mod a week or two ago.
Her last clue mafia didn't have this mechanic: https://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/102746/
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@Mikal
CopWhy in the fuck would we waste 2 dps when he's going to get investigated if we leave him alone.
It probably won't get that far, acting as if it does relies on the assumption that he isn't one of the plethora of other roles I mentioned, or isn't copped or vigged prior confirming that.
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BTW I just checked and the last three danielle modded games on DDO had a hunter in them... So... I think it's safe to say she likes that role. If pie is this role, and feels confident enough to use it correctly, I say let him, though obviously this isn't confirmed or anything.
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@Mikal
Re : what role solves this without wasting 2dps?
Vigilante.
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@Mikal
What's an easier assumption to make that may exist in a 11 person game ?
You love making illogical assumptions.
#1: We have a bastard mod who publicly town confirmed a mafia member
#2: Pie had no scum incentive to claim death proof instead of letting mafia waste a kill on him, ignoring a plethora of other roles.
I am sure the count will continue to go up as the day phase continues.
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@Mikal
He wants to confirm himself Noob town Scumcred
Confirming himself via lynching, yes. As town deathproof, you are better off letting mafia waste a night kill. I was a saulus in the last game I played, so I started out scum, but even I knew if I was going to claim lynchproof I should wait until day phase 2 to do it, to make it seem like I was baiting the night kill. And that is exactly what I did, and that's also why everyone thought I was town. I played the lynchproof claim the RIGHT way, whereas pie isn't. Pie isn't an idiot, either, so he's definitely not going to die to this. He's more likely judas, 1x lynchproof, or jester. In every case I believe a lynch is justified, there simply is no reason for him to have claimed dp1 if he was town.
Would scum have a lp or dp? I doubt it.
They definitely wouldn't have a deathproof, but I can certainly see 1x lynchproof. Why would you doubt that?
He's not fake claiming as scum because he would have to be willing to die. Why would he sac himself first dp in the first few pages with no reads or roles?
Again, you are discounting a plethora of roles IE Judas/saulus/hunter etc. If any of those roles, he has incentive to be lynched.
So his role is probably accurate
Doubtful, you can't find a good enough reason for him to have claimed dp1 if so.
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@SirAnonymous
POE. On the surface, it seems like an easy way to confirm a townie. Obviously, that's not quite what happened. However, if Pie didn't put a lot of thought in it, it could have seemed like a good idea.
It wouldn't accomplish POE, because confirming he is lynch proof doesn't confirm him as town. Also pie said nothing about that when claiming, that is an argument you have made for him.
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@Mikal
I also don't buy any of the other roles Connor presented. Hunter for example, would only benefit him in a self lynch if he knew who to target or if a power role was out.
I am just pointing out there are a plethora of options you are discounting because you'd rather believe pie is idiotic townie
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@Mikal
I'm not down with that. If we are wrong, we are at mylo and there is no way to test this claim.There is a much easier way to solve this and you can figure that out. Why do you want to waste 2 dps?
You are dismissing pie as being an idiotic townie too easily. Sometimes he can do dumb stuff, like any of us, but he is more likely up to something.
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@SirAnonymous
He is way too eager to be lynched. If we just lynch him once, then we'll be wondering if he's a judas or something for the rest of the game. I'm not 100% yet, but lynching him twice might be the right move. Of course, it does have the downside that, if he is town, we'll have wasted two DPs. Still, if he really is 1x lynchproof, that will only bring us down to 8 players, so 5v3 or 6v2, or even 7v1 if he's scum. So using two lynches on him might not hurt us that much, especially if we get useful results along the way.
What pro town reason is there to claim lynchproof? When I claimed lynchproof, I was lying, technically. But even when I claimed it, I tried to claim it in a more pro town believable way by saying I died automatically when a certain character died, so it wouldn't be seen as OP. Deathproof townie, and a modconfirmed townie is way broken, but I just don't see danielle doing it. Pie has gotta be scum, if he's not jester than he is judas (we lynch him twice, it's a win). Doesn't make sense to claim death proof as saulus dp1, though maybe he is doing that.
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@LikeMagic
how do you quote easily?
Its not as efficient as DDO, you have to copy and paste the thing you want to qoute, and the hit the little qoute icon.
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@Mikal
So are we willing to lynch him twice (2dps) to actually kill him if he's scum.
yes
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@MisterChris
OK. Let me see if I'm interpreting this right.If Pie were town, the obvious course of action on his part is to attract a NK instead of advocate for a confirmation. This is because "confirming him" would waste his role and he could be freely killed by mafia (which they would obviously support) Obviously, we're assuming his role as x1 limit. Instead, he acts like his role will protect him indefinitely (overpowered as fuck), something that should only be true with something like lynchproof... There is the possibility, of course, that Pie is x2 or something else.Another possibility is that Pie simply thought PoE was a greater advantage than one less NK. Which I'm not sure I see him thinking that if I'm honest.So this implicates a scum lynchproof Pie. While I suppose we could have a town lynchproof, I'm pretty sure it would be obvious to scum he was not actually infinitely deathproof and I think it would be obvious to a town Pie as well. On the other hand, scum Pie would be getting town cred and simultaneously explaining why he never gets targeted by scum.I think this demands a full claim from Pie.
Pie is either jester or some scum type of role. But if he's claiming lynch proof then he also doesn't have an incentive to full claim. We can just lynch him twice. You are right, there isn't a pro-town reason for him to claim lynch proof, and testing his role won't confirm him. He is very likely scum, or judas/saulas if not jester. We need to lynch him twice.
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@LikeMagic
i do not like that this site doesn't automatically link to the post you're replying to.
You mean the auto qoute thing? Yeah that was nice on ddo, but you can still qoute here almost as easily. If only DDO wasn't ad spammed
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@Mikal
Yeah it's possible she pmene danielle prior to posting. Danielle is not active now which was why I did it but I guess she could have texted her
Danielle posted a voted count literally right after you posted it
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@Mikal
I had a feeling it was a reaction test because I feel like danielle would have said something to defend herself if it was true. I still town read her but I guess she could have yelled at danielle in the pm prior to posting, and danielle could have said she wouldn't have said that under any circumstance, which made her react how she did confidently. Not sure. I won't place too much stalk in it though.
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@Mikal
She would have. It was a reaction test
Kind of figured lol
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@LikeMagic
I feel like this worked well with live mafia. It forces everyone to participate and locks scum into a position.
We did it in reverse in live mafia, ask everyone who they would have targeted after a np passed. It was particularly useful for the werewolf/mafia set up where knowing who was visited by the cops or see was useful in determining who was a werewolf or mafia member.
Projecting who you will target in advance defeats the purpose
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@LikeMagic
Since there are likely anti-town roles and I suspect that a riddle theme game will have some trickery and shenanigans, I think everyone should respond by the end of the DP with who they would target in the NP if they had a role.
Hmm I don't think so lol. It will tell mafia who to target, that's horrible logic, and townies are more likely to lie with this anyway. I know I would if I had a role
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Yeah I definitely think magic would have rage quit if she was actually scum
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@Mikal
I'm not talking about it with someone outside the game. I'm talking about a read based on an outside conversation. Entirely different. That rule states I can't message you on discord and ask who you think scum is. Not that I can't meta the mod for being a drunkard
I am not accusing you of rule breaking, just saying following that logic harms the integrity of the game. It's the same thing we always talk about when this logic is used in live mafia games. Just because it is allowed, doesn't mean it's right to pursue it lol. That and the bigger issue is I have no way of knowing if this conversation actually happened. If you were scum you would have incentive to lie about this, and when magic mislynched pass it off as mis-understanding the mod. It's a slippery slope I don't want to play on
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@Speedrace
What is this in response to?
The magic being scum confirmed part
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@Mikal
I don't read it as that1) I think he actually got the role and is just stupid2) or he is scum and trying to farm cred and is equally as stupid.Which of those 2 depends on how bad of a player he is.
3. He is town and not stupid, has some big brain plan with it
4. He is 1x lynchproof scum
5. He is hunter
6. He is saulus
7. He is judas
There are a bunch of possibilities not including the one he is trolling us
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@Speedrace
@Mikal
No talking about the game outside the game. No copy and pasting role PMs; however, I have manipulated the PMs so as to avoid that type of analysis about how I structured them (ahem Mikal).
Whether or not it is true, I will be ignoring any logic about a conversation I was not a part of, not only because that logic violates the standards of the game, but because I was not privy to that conversation and mikal could easily be lying.
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@Mikal
How are you confirmed other than the first letters in the post ?I mentioned that
If the mod is directly contradicting her riddles, that is bastard modding. That said I am not entirely opposed to you bringing up the idea I am not town confirmed if it makes mafia rethink killing me np1 lol
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@Mikal
This is probably a troll because I claimed deathproof in the last game and never got tested, I think he is trying to prove some point, or he is legit a jester or something. Regardless, if it's a DP1 jester and the game continues after the lynch I'll just pretend there is no 3rd party since that's a dumb role.
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@Speedrace
Also Mike is super active on Discord and the PM would probably be there. No way he is inactive as scum
this, plus he posted literally right after I reminded him about the game, and did his lazy/skim thing and didn't catch the part where I was confirmed town and actually bothered trying to read me lol. So he's either being big brained, (which I am not totally discounting, but his behavior will indicate this as the game progresses) or he genuinely didn't see it. If he's scum there's no way his scum buddy wouldn't have pointed that out.
Magic is scum then unless Mikal is lying. I feel bad for Magic tho :( so let's not lynch her based on that
Wait, why? What did I miss?
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@Danielle
Can you ask drafter if he will replace oro?
Also mike will post hes not known for inactivity he probably just forgot about the game. Ill remind him
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@LikeMagic
Speed seems scummy to me. Mostly gut and I didn't like the reveal of the riddle so quickly since. It paints a target on Luna.
I was thinking about this and trying to decide if it was scummy, and decided no it wasn't. Because I picked up on the clue in the first post as well, and I suck at this type of thing normally. I think outing it was more pro town because mafia would have figured it out anyway.
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@SirAnonymous
and a 269-269 tie is still in play.
"There is a 0.5% chance of a 269-269 Electoral College tie."
But maybe
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We test pie at the end of the phase, 100%. If he is saulus then we got a confirmed townie, if he's jester, we yell at the mod for making a dp1 jester.
But we use the phase as much as possible to sus out scum til then.
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@MisterChris
*cough* Mikal *cough* Magic
Both of these individuals won't be posting today I dont think. Magic said so in the sign up and mike will be watching results with max playing bdo
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@skittlez09
i gtg rn ill be on latr
I don't think your in this game mate
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@skittlez09
that was not me who said that
sorry his profile picture looked like one of your old ones
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