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Pie was also odd night so I wouldn’t have gotten anything anyway
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@whiteflame
Any last thoughts or ideas to help us going into lylo?
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@Mharman
Is there anything more you wanna discuss or should we send this thing to lylo before bullish goes to bed?
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@Moozer325
So to recap, I'm not town confirmed because in the unlikely event of a scum redirector, I could have randomly chosen to redirect pie for reasons unknown. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I'm 99% town confirmed, and I'm 98% sure Whiteflame is scum. I get that you want to take this slow, but it's just so random that it seems pointless.
If Whiteflame flips town we have to consider the possibility of some fvckery because all three of us are town confirmed and if Whiteflame is innocent and banana is guilty she just auto wins. Since she hasn’t hammered yet it’s kind of obvious she isn’t lying. So yeah either Whiteflame is scum or there is a scum redirect or or something that messed with results no matter what.
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@Mharman
results?
I was 1x remember? But even if I wasn’t I wouldn’t have got anything with pie dead.
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@Mharman
Ah redirector. You're right. Neither of us are confirmed then.
If there is a redirect or technically moozer isn’t confirmed either. If banana dies instead of moozer I’d wonder if it was him.
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@Moozer325
Okay, so realistically I probably get NKed (which I'm totally fine with), and whiteflame gets lynched. That leaves Banana, you, and Mhar. The game comes down to Banana then. I like those odds. If we can come up with a better three player setup for the last DP though, let's hear it.
Looks like thats whats going to be the case. Gonna be a 50/50 gamble.
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@Moozer325
Well if wf is town, and banana doesn't auto end its a 50/50 between me and mharman. I only know I am town, but both of us would technically be "proven" confirmed by whiteflames roleblocks, however somehow theres still been a night kill everynight, meaning there is a scum role that can interfere with it that we cannot account for. Which is annoying lol but the game is not unwinnable.
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So if we lynch whiteflame today, and the game doesn't auto end then its gotta be mharman somehow. Which means that he is a role that we didn't account for earlier. Lylo is gonna be a wifom fest.
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God damn I still think whiteflame is town. The only way it could be mharman is if there was a redirector, a strongman, or he is an ascetic right? Or a roleblocker who roleblocked whiteflame?
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So if whiteflame flips town, and both me and mharman have been blocked when theres only been one scum, it would have to either be banana, or moozer. Moozer was copped innocent. Banana I town read, but maybe thats not enough.
Maybe there is a way mharman could have acted through a role block? Idk.
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@whiteflame
I targeted you. I did check with Bullish about it and he told me I would not be informed of my RB’s failure, but I believe it went through. Figured it was best to eliminate you as an option, so at least I believe I did that much.Nonetheless, I’m the clear lynch this DP so here we are.VTL Whiteflame
You targeted me? Thank god lol thought I was gonna have to spend the whole day phase defending myself against the wylted lynch lmao
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Ima feel like an idiot if it is Whiteflame after I’ve spent the whole game preaching he is town lol
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@whiteflame
Wow I really thought it was Wylted. So it’s either mharm or Whiteflame. Whiteflame who did you roleblock? Please don’t say banana….
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@WyIted
Yeah honestly another reason I suspected you but forgot to bring it up, is I think your the only person who was motivated enough to even continue playing after losing that2user so early lol. Maybe Whiteflame would try out of sense of honor or something. But I think the rest of us would be too frustrated and it would show in ways that are way too obvious lmao
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@ILikePie5
My only concern is if there’s a scum vigilante. It would make more sense. I am the most concerned about Lunatic being that role and banking on a LYLO situation but at the very least WF should be able to RB him
That would be pretty troll of bullish to put that in after you pointed out how busted it was lol
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I’m fully happy to respond to any scum read on me. I get being in the PoE but so far the only person who has stated an actual behavioral read was Wylted who doesn’t even remember what he is supposedly scum reading me for but convienently only does so after I state my suspicions on him. And Whiteflame who alluded to scum reading me but didn’t provide an actual reason why.
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@whiteflame
Btw I noticed you say you scum read me. It’s not like I expected you to town confirm me for defending you, but I’m really curious what you think my motivation as scum would be for doing it, because my stance hasn’t changed and I could easily waffle my read here to take advantage of a mislynch if I was scum lol
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Gonna throw my vote on Wylted then. This should work out to being a win if we follow this through, but hoping it just ends after this lynch.
Vtl Wylted.
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@Mharman
What do you think about the suggested plan of lynching Wylted and if the game doesn’t end, lynching Whiteflame? Basically no matter what we end up with me / banana / and you in the endgame, if banana is scum she auto wins, otherwise if we make it that far and the game is still going you will both know I am confirmed scum, there is literally no way scum wins this. I don’t believe bullish would make a scum double voter that doesn’t go away in lylo, so pretty sure the game is solved by lynching Wylted and Whiteflame, hopefully it ends after lynching Wylted. But either way we have a path to success here.
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@Mharman
I see a lot of people talking about the utility of lynching Whiteflame… it almost feels like multiple people have secretly concluded he’s town, despite him being widely scumread. Maybe it’s all in prudence, but it’s a little off-putting.Let’s keep it simple. We either think he’s scum, or we think he’s town. Let that be what determines our lynch; I wouldn’t even bother with talks of utility.
by widely scum read do you mean literally just you and pie? I’ve been arguing that Whiteflame was innocent to deaf ears for two day phases now. The only argument is that “he has a scummy role” which is a horrible argument btw.
I’m honestly surprised you scum read him.
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@WyIted
Moozer is more likely to be scum than banana
Pie copped moozer innocent, and we already lynched the godfather… both pie and moozer can’t be lying so…. How does that logic work?
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@ILikePie5
Okay we can still confirm bananas role today then and Whiteflame can roleblock and confirm me and n the off chance the game doesn’t just end after we lynch Wylted.
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@ILikePie5
Hmmm if Whiteflame is indeed town, then we can use the RB to our advantage. Maybe we change the order and lynch Wylted today. Whiteflame blocks Banana/Lunatic. Mafia are forced to NK me/Moozer but most likely me. Wylted-Whiteflame-Lunatic. We find out if Whiteflame is telling the truth by lynching him tomorrow. If there is no NK tonight, we still gain information.
This plan is fine to if you are willing to let Whiteflame live another day.. I’m fairly confident he is town, but in the off chance I’m wrong we will find out by his night actions success.
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@WyIted
I’m very been trying and failing to convince people Whiteflame is town for two days now, and you only entertain the idea that he is town when I propose a plan that suggests you being lynched… very interesting. It’s convienent that this plan allows you to live and doesn’t provide the same end game scenario that gives everyone a win win like mine does lol.
If people wanted to pass on lynching Whiteflame and go straight for Wylted that would be preferred, would get us to the endgame fastest because I am fairly confident that Whiteflame is town, but good luck selling pie and mharman on that.
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@WyIted
I think if it's not whiteflame it's probably banana and I think we lose if this happens tomorrow but if I change my mind and think you are acting I could just self vote.
This stance solidifies for me that this lynch order is the correct move.
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@ILikePie5
I agree with this plan, but we can go 1 step further. Banana claimed 1x DoubleVoter. Force her to use it today on WF/tomorrow on Wylted if it’s night activated. Then we’ve covered our bases. In a Luna, Banana, Mharman LYLO, my official recommendation is to get Luna jfyi and you’re okay with it too, so it shouldn’t be a problem.
Completely fine with that, because in that situation banana would have won already if scum, and if it was somehow mharman than something bastard is at play here, so I would understand being in the POE. We should have won by this point, or banana is exactly scum.
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@ILikePie5
Humor me. You got all the time in the world tonight
If your willing to go with the plan of whiteflame/wylted/ me, it doesn't matter anyway.
From my POV I can’t guarantee that you’re a Journalist. And actually, Mikal was an investigative too technically I think.
My point stood before I even added the part about how my role can only interact with yours, because three roles that can only exist with a cop is already a lot of roles, even before you consider mine in the equation. I have no clue what a follower is so I don't know if it interacts with cop, but my role also is one that can only get information from you.
But it’s not confirmable. The only truly confirmable role atm is the Cop (me) because of the GF and the Vanilla (Moozer) to a lesser extent because of Bullish’s view on rolemad + my investigation. Anyways, I trust Mharman at LYLO to lead us to the win.
Never said my role is confirmable, just stating things from my perspective as a townie, take it with a grain of salt if you like. Agreed on the latter part of trusting mharman in the end, so its whatever anyway.
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@ILikePie5
I’m fine lynching Whiteflame today using Banana’s Double Voter. Then tomorrow we can go for Wylted. And if Wylted is town, on LYLO go for Luna. Pretty sound proof plan imo.At LYLO, it will be Luna, Banana, Moozer/Mhar (more likely Mhar because of the Hider).
Sounds good to me, seems you are finally seeing my logic lol. This should be a game solve unless mafia get lucky on a hider target guess, or banana is exactly the scum double voter and isnt lying about not losing her double vote at lylo. Again in that case we just blame bullish.
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@ILikePie5
Remind me again what your justification was?
The Viggen was the first plane with an on board computer system with a heads up display to help aid with combat related tasks providing enhanced information.
Also what are your thoughts on post 213?
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Okay lets think this through.
We lynch whiteflame today, it confirms mharman, eases everyones doubts that whiteflame is scum, whatever. If hes scum its gg, if not we know mharm is town.
Scum most likely kill pie or moozer here, they could try and gamble the kill on hitting mharman, but its a big gamble and if they mis, they are more fvcked because we get an extra mislynch, so chances are they just choose pie here, but if not its a win win unless they somehow get extremely lucky and hit the hider and his hide target.
So next dp is me, wylted, mharm, banana, moozer/pie (depending on who they killed). We lynch wylted. He's scum, gg. Hes town, we basically know its me or banana. Again scum can try and gamble the hider target, but if they are smart just shoot the remaining confirmed town whether its pie or moozer.
Lylo is now me mharm and banana. If it's banana and she wasn't lying about being able to vote in lylo, she wins. That seems busted af to me for mafia, though and at that point I just blame bullish. Mharm is confirmed, so I would have to be scum.
In my eyes this is a win win for everyone, the only risk involved in this plan is if you think banana is EXACTLY scum double voter AND not lying about not losing her role in LYLO, or if mafia gamble a kill on the hider and get lucky.
Absent of those two things, this plan is basically a game solve.
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@WyIted
You know this is all a moot point of whiteflame flips scum?I am on board with your plan. I am willing to self vote if you convince enough people just because pie needs to learn to be more collaborative if a large portion of town considers him a leader, and it's not against my wincon to self vote because it still narrows the potential scum pool and helps with POE.I won't self vote next DP but this one I would be willing.
Well I am doing my best to sell your lynch today, but based on the feedback I am seeing, it doesn't seem likely it won't be whiteflame. But I did say I could compromise a whiteflame lynch if it resulted in your lynch tomorrow. and we'd still get one more after that, so why wouldn't you be willing to self vote tomorrow? You'd still get whiteflame lynched, it would solve the problem of allowing a miller to be an unknown all the way til the endgame, and if we have severely fvcked up at that point, we still have one more chance to get it right, and POE would still be in our favor. Assuming its me banana and mharman left in LYLO, banana if scum just auto wins if shes actually a double voter, so if she doesnt we know shes town confirmed and it would guaranteed be me since mharman would have been confirmed via whiteflames death.
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@iamanabanana
I am okay with whiteflames lynch then since it confirms mharman, and it would be best to have a confirmed townie going into tomorrow. As far as wylted goes, I don't see a strong reason to lynch him other than people being skeptical of his role, it doesn't seemed based on behavior very much.
Did you literally not read anything I said?
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@WyIted
Lunatic won't believe me at this point but yes I will fake claim miller on occasion as scum but it's almost always when there is no godfather because I assume there is no cop and I can stay alive for a while given the town meta of not lynching Millers lately. If there is a godfather then there is usually a Miller so I won't claim it as scum in that situation
I don't even think your confirmed scum or anything, just that you are an unknown and always will be until MYLO, its not a role I think is worth gambling for in the endgame. Normally I don't push so hard on this, but no we have 3 roles that can only exist for a cop, which just seems like a lot.
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Whats ironic as hell here is the exact reason I am advocating wylted here is the exact reason pie always advocates lynching them, but with added reasons both behavior wise and mechanics wise lol. I literally don't even think pie believes in his lynch all millers policy anymore. He just doesn't want to admit he's ever been wrong about anything so he is going to pretend he believes in this policy. Realistically he hasn't policy lynched a miller in any game in recent history that I can even remember.
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@ILikePie5
Thats EXACTLY the reason why it’s such a good claim though. The perfect trifecta of cop/godfather/miller just seems too good to be true. I don't see bullish confirming two town like that. But wylted would have known miller was safe before a cop ever claimed, because of the mere existence of a godfather.The only way he could’ve safely SOPed Miller is if he was the last one to post or he just yoloed (which I don’t believe atm). Can you go back and see if he was the last one that posted in DP1, I gotta sleep. Work tomorrow.
Again I don't see that as relevant. Claiming miller would have been a semi yolo move, not very hard though considering if he was scum he knew there was a godfather and thus not a huge risk in claiming miller. Also consider the fact that my journalist role was basically put in and can only be used to verify an investigater, of which you are the only one. Basically my role is useless without a cop. So its not just a trifecta, is a quadra of perfect roles that justify each other, two of which we know are true the cop and godfather, meaning its less likely in my eyes that the mod would confirm another player with a miller of all things.
I’m actually not. As of right now, he would be the third lynch (WF/Luna/Wylted) because I townread Banana
Also why am I in front of wylted? Purely based on role?
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@ILikePie5
It makes sense to me when there’s a flipped Godfather.
Thats EXACTLY the reason why its such a good claim though. The perfect trifecta of cop/godfather/miller just seems too good to be true. I don't see bullish confirming two town like that. But wylted would have known miller was safe before a cop ever claimed, because of the mere existence of a godfather.
If Wylted yoloed Miller, that’s a massive risk, and he said he’d play better as scum, which he truly has in Serial Killer Mafia.
I don't think its a massive risk, thats more mid level. I would consider claiming dreamer before half the living players outed who they visited np1 was is more of a massive risk. Anyways, it was a semi risk, with a huge payout, considering that you are now towning him for it, so hard that you are ignoring your holy policy of lynching all millers because of it lol.
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The only thing lynching whiteflame accomplishes is that it completely takes mharman off the board to know he is town. The confirmation would be nice. However considering I already think whiteflame and mharman are likely town, this lynch is more for reassuring others only, thats why I say if we make a deal to lynch wylted next im down, otherwise were basically letting wylted go to endgame, where anything can happen and I just don't trust you arseholes enough to make the right decision at that point.
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Then vote Wylted. I’m basically the towniest person here, and there’s a solid townblock
Your towniness doesn't have much to do with anything, I have town read you since day one, its not like anyone is suggesting lynching you. You believing wylted is hard town confirmed really doesn't make sense though, so if you wanna push that when your the likely night kill, and being unwilling to compromise means you'll just die and accomplish nothing with your death.
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@ILikePie5
No. We lynch you or Banana tomorrow. Then on LYLO yall can figure it out amongst yourselves.
If you wanna play it like that then simply, fvck you. You don't have the pull this game you usually do. So go fvck yourself. If I wanna vote wylted I will vote wylted.
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@ILikePie5
@Mharman
Heres one point I would be willing to consider. If we lynched whiteflame now, we would town confirm mharman. pie likely dies tonight. We still have me wylted and banana in the poe, so I may be willing to make a deal if we lynch whiteflame today we must lynch wylted tomorrow. After that its mylo, and we should still have one more try left if for some reason all of those are wrong, which would basically mean scum is either me or banana.
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@ILikePie5
I want to lynch Whiteflame. If he flips town, it makes Mharman more likely to be town (he could still be a Strongman technically). I’m basically the de facto NK tonight anyways, and it’s going to succeed with no protective roles. At the very least, you can replace me we Mharman in the town block.
The only thing I would really get on board with as far as whiteflame goes is that he hasn't really taken a stance yet, but that's not very fair to him either considering he had to go to bed and because of the whole wait to CC thing the day phase was kind of stalled. So I would like to give him until tomorrow to get his thoughts, behaviorally though he just doesn't read scum to me.
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@Mharman
What kind of computer systems are we talking here
No clue
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@ILikePie5
But would Wylted just yolo claim it? Maybe.
Because its wylted. I could also see him signing off on that2's yolo claim.
Idt Wylted would care. Frustration is something that doesn’t come by often for em especially in mafia
Oh he gets frustrated, not like long term frustration, like in the moment frustration. You could literally see him calling mikal a Piece of sh1t for trying to confirm himself. I actually get it, its a scummy tactic, which is why I wasn't approving of it, but I would completely understand him being mad in the moment about that especially combined with that2 being CC'ed by him. Its like "Oh this mother fvcker gets to be town confirmed and gets to CC my scum partner, screw this"
Anyways the one time I am gonna sign off on your lynch all millers policy and your not gonna do it?! What a shame lol
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Anyways Wylted was who I was scum reading coming into the game. Also a bit extra paranoid about him after the whole discussion of “who would kill him, we all love Mikal and want him to stick around!” Bs after he had just basically called Mikal a piece of sh1t last day phase lol.
I feel like he was an obvious person who would want to get rid of him external of the idea that Mikal was basically town locked after cc’ing that2user.
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@ILikePie5
Wylted is also basically a lock in my eyes. Does he have the balls to claim it anyways? Yes. But I don’t think so.
I’m not so sure. A miller/ cop/ godfather seems very convienent. And if mafia had a godfather I think it would be safe for them to assume their was a cop, meaning miller was naturally a good claim. I was actually gonna take you up on your policy to lynch all millers this game since we started of well being able to afford it, and for me Wylted will always be a question going into the end game. I also sensed paranoia from
Him when he mentioned me and Mikal steam rolling the game early on dp1, and sensed it again later when he voted me after it was revealed why Mikal thought he should be town confirmed and his reaction was basically like “this is bullsh1t” which would make sense combined with frustration of having his scum partner just having been CCed just to find out town might have an edge to an external factor, that whole thing read like Wylted was complaining. If he was town I don’t think he would have been frustrated like that.
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@WyIted
I don't think I ever stated this publicly before but also not of fan of YYW. He seems unnecessarily cruel. Never had any run ins with him though so I kept my mouth shut. Still, overall I think he improves the conversation when he's around
No one starts off liking YYW. You either get used to him or just hate him in perpetuity lol
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