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@WyIted
I kind of had similar feelings towards drafterman back in the day lol. Never really liked the guy but thought he was good for mafia and activity took a noticeable dip after he left. Wish I was able to see eye to eye with him more.
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@Mharman
Based on POE we already should know one of you two is the cop anyway lol mafia would be dumb to CC that
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@WyIted
I seriously wanted to play with Mikal
I thought you hated him based on things said last day phase and one other time you ranted to me about him lol. Figured you’d have incentive to get him out if anyone did
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@WyIted
I claimed in the same post I suggested the mass claim in lol
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Okay so in an hour and fifteen minutes ya both claim. Glad we found a resolution
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Why don’t you both just claim at the same time? Doesn’t need to be a d1ck measuring contest. Both of you prepare your claim and post it at exactly 11pm. Whoever is late posting will be viewed at as scummy.
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I don’t really care who claims first but I do slightly town read pie more so if it’s a big deal who claims first I’d opt for mharman, but both still need to claim.
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@Mharman
So what specifically made you wonder if I was cop, over anyone else?
Similar behavior to Russian mafia, you seemed like you were kind of coasting under the radar, I figured it was either scum motivated or you were a power role and trying not to draw attention to yourself so you could get a result. It’s basically the same logic that had me assume you were a power role in Russia mafia. Plus POE. I figured it was between you moozer and Mikal, bananas character didn’t strike me as a cop.
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@ILikePie5
I answered that last DP…
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@Mharman
So, what was the way in which you could confirm Mikal was town?
Talked about this a few times already last day phase, but basically the idea was since I begged Mikal to play he said he was only gonna play if he rolled town, and he told bullish to replace him if he slotted mafia. I told him I wasn’t going to use that logic to town confirm him though, so it was always null to me. For one it’s cheated for two I think he genuinely might have played still as scum and just tried to use that to confirm himself.
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I still town read Whiteflame even if I recognize that he is in the POE and might have to be lynched at some point, but he’s not really my focus atm. I think we should get claims from pie mharman banana and moozer
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We should mass claim and figure this sh1t out. I have one scum read but want to hear from everyone first.
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I am the Saab 37 Viggen, the 1x journalist. Basically because I was one of the first jets with updated computer systems to aid the pilot in combat tasks, I get enhanced information and am therefore the journalist.
Once per game I can target a player and if they receive results I would also receive their result message.
I was told it only works for results so I wouldn’t get a “night kill” successful message. I targeted mharman hoping he was the cop and I could confirm a townie. I got no result from mharman.
I was considering targeting moozer thinking he could also be cop. Figured there was a small chance it was Mikal but I knew he was cooked so visiting him seemed pointless.
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@whiteflame
Interesting I also targeted mharman last night. Maybe we should full claim everyone today.
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@Mikal
, this is some superdud level of play
Btw not sure if this is a jab at supadudz but he has also gotten much better at mafia lol
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@WyIted
I actually believe you are a big enough piece of shit to not only make this deal but to make it public so I have you in my town slot.This isn't an insult just a factual statement on my view of the ethical framework you operate inside ofAlsoUnvote VTL Lunatic.
I said I wasn’t going to dignify that argument for town confirming him lol. I town read him for other reasons, but that reason is completely null to me. I actually think Mikal would still have played as scum even despite all this just to use that wifom argument against me so I’m definitely not gonna clear him for it.
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I’m caught up… wow lol.
If that2 is town ima facepalm so hard, because she just did the same thing as town in Russian mafia. But yeah it’s more likely she is just scum and bad at fake claiming. In serial killers mafia she nearly claimed Ted bundy off the rip. Luckily the actual Ted bundy claimed before she could but I was like seriously? You don’t think the most widely know and popular serial killer is in the game? She has a tendency to give up very easily as mafia and seems just completely disinterested in a game when she lands scum, which is unfortunate but probably the straightforward reason why she fake claimed. I doubt you get an answer from her Mikal.
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@Mikal
If there were a bigger pool of players or less available roles to claim maybe, but the role pool is too big and there’s only a one in 7 chance he can screw up a fake claim out of like 30+ options. The risk of getting CCed really isn’t that high here
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@Mikal
You are making it out like he could fake claim anything and have it be better than JOAT. I am disagreeing so hard with this. I’m agreeing it’s his role. Why risk a CC when you could claim your actual character and role for a lot of reasons. No one will know the theme so the character won’t appear scummy and JOAT can’t be dual sided so seeming a little scummy in a role claim is better than risking a cc
Because JOAT is and always will be a scummy claim. Whiteflame knows this, and Whiteflame also happens to be a very good scum player capable of making phenomenal fake
Claims. In this game he’s practically handed a list with several fake claim options and he has an extremely high possibility of claiming many of them with very low probability of getting CCed, yet he goes for one of the roles that is almost guaranteed to be unanimously scum read? Why?
Also he didn’t have to role claim in general. The pressure on him was for character claim, the fact that he in good faith full claimed looks even better for him. As mafia he just bides his time and full claims after he’s narrowed down more claims and reduced the risk of CC more. The move he made just doesn’t make sense from a scum Whiteflame perspective unless he is specifically banking on the wifom argument I’m making now to save him, and that’s a lot of risk to hedge his game on for no reason. Whiteflame isn’t beyond taking risks, but I don’t think he takes dumb risks that have a high probability of failure when he could easily just play this a million better ways.
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@Mikal
- 100% guaranteed randomness in affiliation and role distribution.
I take it to mean that he just used a list randomized on all of the roles and put in whatever popped up. Could be wrong, and he did mention tomoie that an attempt at balance would have been made which also indicates that he could change things based on balance not working out
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@Mikal
Also keep in mind if there is a miller we also likely have a cop. Not always but kinda pointless to use miller without an investigation.I don’t think we need to lunch wylted. Both JOAT and miller are scummy claims and if we don’t see something to confirm a miller pop up, it validates that miller could be fake.
it depends on if bullish actually randomized or not. If the roles selected were actually randomized like he said it is possible for a miller to exist without a cop.
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@Mikal
Claiming from the only town roles is more likely to get cced in my opinion as there are fewer of them. I’m still stuck on he is a joat but he is a mafia sided joat.
Even then, there’s a ton of good roles even on the “both scum and town list” and JOAT is probably the scummiest thing he could have claimed, why would he do that over literally any of the other options?
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@ILikePie5
Holy shit reading that endgame brought back so many memories. Btw, you’re a cunt nugget 🤡
lmao I don't even wanna know that reference, prolly drunk lunatic
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@ILikePie5
Theme wise he’s also an outlier so far; we’ll see where that goes though. I’ll defer to you on the behavior. I can never read is behavior one way or the other anyways.
Props to you for making heads or tails of a bullish theme lol. I, like Mikal, am scarred from that computer mafia he hosted. lmao
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@ILikePie5
Thats true, my working theory is that if he’s scum, he told the truth about his role being JOAT. Probably told the truth about his abilities too. Anyways, more consideration tomorrow
It's possible I just don't see it as being extremely likely knowing whiteflame, also having played scum succesfully with him a few times recently and witnessing different behavior from him. Small chance I am wrong here, but for now he's not someone I'd consider lynching unless his behavior started standing out.
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@ILikePie5
The answer is probability. In a role madness game, you have 5 time.
What does 5 time mean
Let’s say 2 of those have pure town roles, that’s 2/9 possible roles. He has 7 town roles he could claim, but odds are bad. Compare that to the town/mafia list. Advantage of that list is that if scum have it, town don’t have it, so he could be truly a scum JOAT. Plus the list is far bigger so easier to fake claim
Bigger list, means less chance of him getting caught on a more "townie" sounding role though. Again he didn't have to claim, I dont think anyone was pushing for his role, just character. There's a ton of more townie sounding roles on that list than JOAT, and I don't think chances are super high he would get CC'ed by most of them. Maybe with cop or doctor, assuming you don't think bullish randomized it like he said.
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@WyIted
I doubt I am stealth. It's a WW2 era plane so no, and since the game is so small I think it's smart from me to deviate from my normal meta and go ahead and claim miller.I am miller and I soft claimed my her here.
What plane is miller and why?
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@Mharman
Someone mentioned Pie’s steeping and I don’t like it either. The one thing I’m trying to watch for is if Mikal and Lunatic are just trying to steamroll town. I will say it’s hard for me to sus two players together when I don’t like Whiteflame’s claim. I’ll sleep on it for now.
Thats a funny theory, considering I am town reading his top two scum reads lmao
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@ILikePie5
Issue is that JOAT could be given to scum too. A commuter + manipulative + ??? would make sense for a scum. I presume Bullish didn’t give fake claims/roles either, so it would be really tough. I’d bet good money that the character claim is real.
That's my point though, theres a list of roles that can "Only be town" "only be scum" and "Could be both". Why not just claim from the "can only be town" list? I mean you can say he is doing to for wifom reasoning, but he didn't have to purposely claim a scummy role from the non distinct list for literally no reason. Scum whiteflame could have made just about any of the town claims work, so why purposely shoot himself in the foot. If the only answer is wifom manipulation, I don't think that's a strong enough reason to suspect him when that same wifom reasoning is just as likely to work against him.
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@ILikePie5
plus Luna never said anything about you, though you said he can confirm you.
Basically the logic hes trying to use here is that I had to beg him to play, and mikal didn't want to play if he was mafia, therefor if he is playing its because he was slotted town. I am not going to confirm or validate that logic, even if I did buy it, simply due to the fact that it could be viewed a cheatsy. Plus Mikal could have just got slotted as scum and decided to play anyway, so I am not gonna focus on that logic too hard regardless. That said I do find his reads and play in general town so far, so I am comfortable putting him in my town block regardless.
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BTW I totally forgot this is an open set up, JOAT was on the list. Doesn't confirm anything just throwing it out there, he had a million things he could have claimed on this list, and chose to pick a role thats naturally scummy, over picking a role thats on the "ONLY TOWN" list. Again wifom, but if hes scum then hes hedging on us buying that wifom, which is definitely not the "safe" choice.
This just reaffirms my townread on whiteflame even more actually.
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@Mikal
I mean I’m good with full on character claiming. I don’t think anyone will have any idea what kind of split this is. Bullish makes some wonky fucking splits. I remember his damn computer game
Yeah Id be willing to bet that even scum wont know the theme split here. That said, locking people in still has a chance to get them to mess up on a claim, or make a claim that doesn't make sense, etc etc. It's less so about solving the theme than catching scum in a lie.
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@Mikal
wait are we actually doing the stealth thing ?
We generally try to push for some sort of soft claim to lock people in early, doesn't neccesarily always have to be a full on claim, but at least mafia have to cater their claim to whatever they initially made it out to be.
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I think we should get the remaining soft claims out, since mharman was on recently I'll start with him.
I am not putting his "im a jet" on the claimslist, since literally everyone is a jet and he himself said it was a joke.
vtl mharman
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@Mikal
Whiteflame knows JOAT is a scummy claim, so as scum I just really don't see him claiming it. Especially when he's a brilliant fake claimer. Like I said, for almost anyone else I would buy that logic though, but whiteflame has progressed leaps and bounds as a player since you probably seen him last, and he is pretty deadly as scum. I really don't even think he would have claimed if he were scum here.
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@Mikal
Disagree, I agree his role is likely real at least to some degree but theme is so niche and because it's open ended most people can claim anything and get away with it. I have not played with him in a long time but I certainly remember catching him because of bad fake claims but i'll concede you have played with him more lately.
When you say you've caught him in bad fake claims, are you referring to live mafia? If so I think forum mafia and live are very very different. Also your memory of whiteflames forum play is probably a bit outdated. I consider him currently to be one of the strongest players on the website, he probably has one of the better win records as mafia. Anyways if this claim was from another player I can see being skeptical of it, but coming form whiteflame himself I just don't see it. I am hedging a lot of this read on WIFOM, and I fully admit that.
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Claims
Whiteflame- J-36- JOAT (1x Commuter, 1x manipulative, rest unknown)
Iamanabanana- (probably) F-16 Fighting Falcon
Soft Claims
ILikePie5- Fighter Jet (Not a stealth jet
Moozer325- Not a stealth fighter
Lunatic- Not a stealth fighter
No claims
Mharman
WyIted
That2User
Mikal
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@Mikal
If we can’t find a stronger lynch, I’m okay with voting between Mharm and User. Better to eliminate the keyboard droolers
Also I wouldn't consider mharman kyeboard drooler. He's progressed a ton since DDO, if you haven't plaeyd with him. He's genuinely one of the more active contributive town members when he's committed.
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@Mikal
1) I’m town locked - Connor can confirm later
Chill with the name drops lmao, I've been doxxed on this site. I think most of these guys know me anyway, but still lmao
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@ILikePie5
@Mikal
Man this is gonna sound WIFOM as hekk, but I town whiteflame hard. Main reason is because whiteflame is really good at fake claims, like wayyy better than me. I've played with him as scum a few times, and he is actually brilliant in coming up with fake claims and with POE narrowing down town roles and formulating a good claim. Obivously he was first to be pressured here, but I don't think scum whiteflame would have even claimed here. He could have just got away with a character claim, and said "I'd rather not claim further right now" and he would have been totally justified in doing that, which would allow him more time to narrow down POE and figure out fake claims as scum. Also he as scum isn't just going to claim his actual role, and he could be called out easily for lying on a commuter. It doesn't make sense for him to lie about his role here, I am so confident whiteflame is town here based on that claim, that I'd probably sus anyone who tries to pursue him.
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@ILikePie5
Are you a stealth jet or not?
I know nothing of planes, I had to research the answer, but according to google AI, my plane is not a stealth Jet.
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@Mikal
thoughts on pie?
Town. For now.
Mainly because he just put together a 4 person early town block, which if he is scum, does not benefit him. Scum pie would look for early mislynch opptertunities and would lynch with impurity, and justify the lynch based on the persons behavior indigently, so pie town piling people early is a good sign.
I get actually not trusting him based on him not actively leading the day phase and letting you take the mantle here, but in this case I actually buy that from pie. He literally is the main reason we ever have activity in these things, and you can tell when pie is hosting and not an active player, the ball tends to not roll very hard at all. So pie wanting to take a break from that makes sense, that said I will be more suspicious if he completely rolls over and puts bare minimum effort in, that doesn't seem like town pie. I think we should take it with a grain of salt, but yeah definitely understand him not wanting to take lead here.
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Whiteflame will get on, he always does no need to rush him
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What’s up yall? I’ll be active tonight at work, hanging with the gf right now
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1. ILikePie5
2. whiteflame
3. Lunatic
4. WyIted
5. Moozer325
6. That2User
7. iamanabanana
8. Mikal
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