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earth and Whiteflame are gnarly as a team. Seriously. 2/2 as a duo.
Congrats and good game.
Sorry for the mislynch mharman, I outwifomed myself. But it looks like so did the people on Austin’s wagon, so GG. Mafia played well.
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@WyIted
We were not. Austin is obviously town and Austin scum. You guys look sus
You sound like you have some inside information…
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On second thought I don't want to fvck the vote up. I think the day phase expires really soon and I doubt all the players will get on in time to read and analyze wylted.
I think it's best to leave this in whiteflames hands. I think if wylted tries to lead a mislynch on whiteflame for making the wrong decision here, you guys should focus on lynching wylted tonight. I am pretty sure me or earth will die tonight, most likely me. Maybe mharman if austin does actually end up being scum. If mharman is town, than mafia at least have to gamble around a doctor. Considering the joebob kill, I suspect they will try to be sneaky and go for another unexpected kill. Either way, if mharman is town and whiteflame chooses austin, I hope he gambles well and rock paper scissors mentality with the scum on the night kill and thinks outside the box of just protecting me or himself, as I think the mafia in this case are smart enough to suspect that, but I also want to bait them into risking it.
WIFOM WIFOM and more WIFOM.
Anyways, for now I'll defer and put the vote back on mharman and leave this back in the hands of whiteflame.
MY strong feeling is whiteflame is town. Regardless if he picks wrong, we should heavily look at anyone who tries to sus him out tomorrow. Whiteflame's patience in voting here is almost town confirmable to me. I place him almost as high as savant as town behaviorally. Savant unfortunately might be used by the mafia in this game as a means to their ends, but hopefully I am wrong.
unvote, VTL mharman
Please don't sleep on wylted though whoever survives next day phase.
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@WyIted
I appreciate the tag and will read your case in a second but I think you know that if there are 2 guys at L1 and we are struggling to lynch either than one of the wagons is scum lead wagon and one is a town lead wagon. Or a scum benefiting wagon where the people just are taking advantage of the divide.
If you think there is definitely one scum between the two, why is whiteflame being threatened by both you and savant when he's being the most careful here about his decision? I feel like he's being strong armed into voting for austin else there would be repercussion. You make it sound more obvious than it is that Austin is scum. I know you were leaning that way last day phase, but even when I revealed to you the mharman result, you seemed to buy that there was something to it, or at least you feigned to think so. Now you are making it as austin is so incredibly obvious that anyone not on his wagon should be scrutinized heavily. Tell me, does your opinion at all change about mharman going into next day phase if austin flips town? Why or why not?
There is zero percent chance that both are town because so many people could easily justify switching their vote and just ending this.
Whiteflame could easily have voted either side all day and justified either one of them. The fact that he is being so conservative is what makes him so town, and what has me eyeing the people threatening to punish him for making the wrong decision next day phase. Assuming he's town and uninformed, the logic you said about one being scum due to hesitance of the lynch, is likely. So as scum with inside knowledge of who the scum is, why not just hammer and justify it? There's plenty of WIFOM cases on both sides to substantiate the vote. Whiteflame has no reason not to hammer the townie as scum. All this posturing just waylays and possibly prevents him from a mislynch. With how gritty this game has been I as scum would probably have wanted an end to it.
What's funny is no one on the mharman wagon is threatening to vote everyone on the austin wagon next day phase with prejudice the way the austin wagon people are doing to the mharmaners. This screams to me that mafia know that they just need one more night phase to kill off one of the mharmaners to know they win over the town. I think savant is being used to this end, though unfortunately I think he is town. Mafia would never kill him because they know how stagnant he can be when he finds something to attach to. I fear, if mharman isn't lynched today, he simply wins by WIFOM of being the main character and no one being willing to lynch a doctor claim.
Your logic behind me only makes sense if mharman is scum and I am trying to save him as his scum buddy. In which case mharmarlllm should still be the lynch advocated for.
This is actually my line of thinking, and it's a heavy possibility. That or you would rather take mharman into lylo than austin, because the town is very split and mharman has been town reading you harder than any other player in the game. The other possibility is that you and your partner are taking opposite stances on purpose to look separate, I can see a potential earth combination. I am lightly townreading earth mainly because of his claimed use of his action and his mharman vote, which is obviously not overwhelmingly popular atm. But there's a lot of WIFOM with that to digest. Anyways if you are scum I do think mharman is most likely, the only doubt I have about it is whether mharman would buddy you this hard if he was scum. I know supa has done that to some benefit in the past, but most scummies tend to wanna put some kind of distance between themselves.
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@Earth
@whiteflame
@Mharman
@AustinL0926
@Savant
Read through some of wylted's recent posts and behavior. Tell me if it still feels really all that townie to you. Everyone kind of wrote wylted off early based on his CC exchange with austin. In hindsight, I think wylted knew his character was mia not maya and was trying to pull off something like that too look town confirmed. Mia dies early in the narrative for this theme, so it's very very possible mia isn't in the game but her older sister maya is.
I know this is a last minute change but wylteds posts are giving the vibes that both people are town here and I kind of expect if a mislynch occurs wylted will try and use it to get whiteflame lynched next day phase. I don't like his behavior at all.
And tell me this is anything like his play in CoC and I won't believe you. He seems dis-interested and lazy, which is not how he genuinely is as town. He has admitted in the past that he's not as active and interested as scum, or more likely to make dumb mistakes, etc. If you've played with town wylted recently you can clearly see a difference. I am not buying that all of it is because he is busy either because he is still posting a lot but in a way that allows him to skate by and be happy with any of the lynch choices here. I don't like it. I don't like that he wants to use this lynch as ammo against whiteflame.
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I am not even saying you are risking a mislynch this dp. If you lynch mharman there is a good chance he is innocent and people are going to be wondering how in the hell you chose to lynch mharman over Austin.
The vote was evenly split and theres a decently large wifom case built on each person we are considering lynching. You placing whiteflame in this position like savant is doing is kind of messed up, but not only that it seems to reek of inside knowledge. Considering the vote being split 50/50 I wouldn't expect that whiteflame should be overly punished for his decision unless you fully expect some of the people on the mharman wagon to not be around next day phase. This is kind of a scum slip. You are both hinting that you predict mharman to flip innocent, that some of the people voting mharman (me or earth) will be dead and won't be able defend whiteflames actions, and setting up a mislynch by placing the blame on him. Just because most people think I am town here, doesn't mean I should be excluded from guilt. Earth too for the matter. This whole argument of "I will punish you tomorrow for picking wrong" thing from savant is basically what prompted me to vote for mharman in the first place. It feels intentionally manipulative and designed to set up mislynches. Meanwhile you aren't being punished by almost anyone for leading the owen mislynch. I figured you out of anyone would have seen his responses as obviously innocent. You doubled down the whole time about his lynch. I wasn't there to defend Owen so its partially my fault, which is why I wasn't bringing it up before. But while your threatening whiteflame for potentially being behind a mislynch, after being responsible for one yourself, I can't help but bring up the point.
I think people are dismissing you based on your character claim a little too easy. There is a point I brought up earlier as well about Mia being reasonably not in the game as well given the fact that she dies relatively early in the series.
I feel like your overall activity and effort has been less (some of which I can excuse to real life circumstances) but this recent big post you make just doesn't feel townie at all. I am trying to see the Wylted from CoC who just dominated here, and I don't see it. I see a much more of a "back seat" wylted, which is how you seem to play more as scum. I think your town game is way better and I generally find you more enthused about the game and solving it when you are town. I haven't been getting that impression from you in the slightest in this game.
Overall your behavior to me seems more scum sided than either mharman or austin.
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Ive been having issues connecting all day idk what is going on. Don't wait for me though.
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@Savant
If Whiteflame hammers Mharman and Mharman is town, I'm down to lynch WF tomorrow.
I agree with Whiteflame this is wierd. And substantiates my point earlier about not trusting town to make the right decision tomorrow. Because you’re advocating Austin’s lynch now not whiteflames but assuming mharman flips town you suddenly want to lynch Whiteflame? Whiteflame not hammering as soon as he could means he is likely town regardless of mharmans flip.
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Mharman was acting like there was gonna be some epic showdown today with him and Austin lol all we got was a copy pasted rap lyric im disappointed
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Only 4 posts since I woke up. Damn maybe we’ve talked about this as much as we can then
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Still asleep I’ll post more later, good to know we still have today to talk things out
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For some reason I thought the day phase was ending today, we still have another 24 hours
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@Earth
@whiteflame
Up to you guys to decide. I’m leaving my vote and going to bed.
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why has most of this phase just been me mharman and savant. Did town give up?! I’m ready to just cave and vote Austin if don’t doesn’t give a shit
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There’s not a chance in hell you lynch mharman if Austin is town
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@Savant
I may be the only remaining deciding factor to even get mharman lynched period. If we lynch Austin and he’s town, you guys will never lynch mharman because of the doctor claim. I get killed tonight then you guys just mislynch obvious town people the rest of the game. So I don’t think I have a choice but to try and get mharman lynched today while there is a chance to. And if he’s town I know you guys will kill Austin anyways in my absence and I’ll be able to do nothing about it cuz ima be dead
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@WyIted
Every person is equally a problem at mylo I guess. Maybe savant because he tends to stick to his guns very heavily,I was thinking more in line as to who is most likely to get mislynched if they turn out to be town, because mislynching them now would be better than at MYLO.
I feel like your leading me into an austin answer here lol. I don't wanna consider that argument, because we can potentially have more results going into dp3 if night actions play out well. Unfortunately the only person I can ask protection from is mharman, and I kind of suspect him so its an issue.
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@WyIted
What person being alive at MYLO is going to be the biggest problem for town?
Every person is equally a problem at mylo I guess. Maybe savant because he tends to stick to his guns very heavily, but I still townread him so I am not going to advocate his lynch. Mharman and austin seem locked into the death tunnel 1 v 1 so maybe getting rid of one of them would be best. I hate to admit bias but I am slightly leaning mharman as the scum if we are lynching out of the two, or potentially both town, and the remaining scum being between you earth and whiteflame. Simply because a doctor not existing in the game would be a bit crazy. But its hard to say,
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@WyIted
Why did you doc yourself.
This was his answer as to why he docced himself:
I knew the scum team would be looking for other PRs, at which point I believed I was going to be the target. Thankfully, Casey, despite being very secretive at the time, did say I could protect myself, so I did that believing the scum team would find my breadcrumbs.
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@WyIted
Did mharman claim doctor before you revealed you tracked him to himself or after?
He claimed it after I claimed to track himself. I was trying to get him to out his character and role without revealing my info but he was holding it back and demanded a trade for my character before he would even character claim, so eventually I got tired of waiting and just exposed the results. I did mention that I figured he could be doctor when I revealed so part of me wonder if he chose that claim knowing I would buy into it, but then he would have had to have known there was no other doctor somehow. The justification for him being doctor is that "Wright saves people" even though there are a ton of medical characters in the show. So on paper it screams sus. The only thing holding me back is that casey is a new mod so "saving" people could be used loosely in this case.
But Wright also fits in very well with a lawyer role, which I assume there is a laywer or framer if there is a justice. Justice is insanely OP.
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@WyIted
okay bullet points
- I tracked mharman, saw him visit himself
- Mharman claim Wright and claimed to doctor himself
- savant and mharman believe austin is in the POE now
- earth thinks austin is town, whiteflame seems to be leaning that way as well
- Austin thinks mharman is scum and is willing to 1 v 1 him
- I am undecided still
More or less where everyone is at. You can find their cases for specific arguments, though most everything is WIFOM right now. I personally think its possible that mharman can be a lawyer/framer with his character and am not as quick as others to town read him simply because he is the main character. The only problem is there are no other claimed protective roles so if mharman isn't doctor than town have no protection. Balance wise I am okay with that, but mod psyche wise I wonder if casey would not use a protective role.
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If both of you are town and death tunneling each other for the sake of pride, the whole town suffers for it. I advise you think of different scenarios and scum teams here, because you could both be easily be town here.
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@Mharman
@AustinL0926
While chances are that one of you two could be scum, consider a world where your both town hypothetically speaking. Just indulge me for a sec. What other scum teams can you picture and why?
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Maybe both of you are town and its like whiteflame/Wylted
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Whats funny is I can see one of austin or mharman being scum, but I absolutely dis-agree with both of them on who the scum partner of each would be lol.
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@Mharman
look, the point is the only way I could miss your PR is if I was town, and focusing less hard on reading other’s PRs because I was tunneled on the idea that Austin was the only investigator in the game because I believed him at the time.Which is the case.
I'll take this wifom into account for sure. Really the case against austin is just as much wifom though. You have the luxury of being online atm whereas he does not so I will patiently wait for austin to speak on things.
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@Mharman
But if I'm so good at reading PRs (and am as good of a player as you respect), how would I miss that you were an investigator if I were scum? If I was scum and looking at the game, I would have killed you in the night. Remember: I am claimed doctor. This means that if I were fake-claiming, the role would have had to have been confirmed not in the game by Casey. I wouldn't fear you'd get doctored, nor would I fear something like a jailkeeper since a jailkeeper might be hesitant to rb you if they were reading you as investigative. I wouldn't fear any bodyguard either, since I could target you and get the bodyguard, while hoping for the off chance the bodyguard doesn't protect you. Well, I would be telling my teammate to do the NK since I visited myself, but you get the point.
I figured I would be killed or roleblocked. Earth strengthening make sense as to why my action went through. And it's part of the reason I switched from scumming him to towning him.
HOLD ON TORNADO WARNING AS IM TYPING THIS
In florida we used to throw parties when this happened lol. But yeah stay safe and such
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@Savant
I wouldn't be surprised if we basically have this game solved. New mods have a tendency to put too many confirmable roles, and scum only wins those games if the town starts overthinking.
Could be. I am just gonna be very shocked if a game about lawyers doesn't even have a lawyer/framer in it
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@Savant
Earth has been town reading austin from the get go
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@Savant
I don't think mhar-mhar will be the lynch, so you may have to go with us on Austin.
Really? I got a different vibe, I thought it was mainly just you and mharman on team austin.
Pretty sure earth, whiteflame and austin are team mhar mhar, and I am still undecided.
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@Savant
Earth and Austin are the only two in my POE we can lynch. I'm not about to go after the only town protective role.
For me I think it's gonna be between mharman and austin. I could be potentially swayed to Wylted too but I don't think that is a shared read I have with anyone. But he lost a lot of town equity by that Owen mislynch and because of his activity this phase. It could be he actually really is busy, or it could also be that he expects town to mislynch between themselves and feels he can more or less coast this phase. It seems like he has the ability to be on to vote, but perhaps could be feigning lack of interest. IDK.
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@Savant
it surprises me they would find a dreamer more of a threatProbably because Austin is lying
Okay if I am scum and gonna lie and I am austin here are the two things we are considering:
I lie about my dreamer results; potentially get 1-2 mislynches out of it before people call my bs and lynch me. Only risk to this is if he thinks people wouldn't buy the results, but a lot of people were town reading austin by EOD of DP1.
or
I lie about being roleblocked or visited and just hope to wifom my way out of having results after already drawing major attention to myself DP1.
I know austin has the power to WIFOM like no other, but even that feels like a stretch to me that he would choose option 2 over option one. It's not out of the question though I'll give you that.
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@Savant
I'd be fine lynching Earth, but I don't know if you could get others to agree to it.
This feels wierd to me. I don't see earth as that scummy. He is in the POE sure, but he at least used his action correctly last night. Idk he hasn't done anything majorly scummy to me this day phase either.
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@Savant
If Austin is town, we'd expect scum to interfere with his results. So as scum, he'd look suspicious if he had them.
I had hard hinted towards being an investigator, so it surprises me they would find a dreamer more of a threat, considering a dreamer isn't hard results and allows them wiggle room with mislynch oppertunity. And with a justice I imagine mafia have some counter to that, like a lawyer or framer.
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Behavioral town reads in order from most town to most scum
Town
Savant
Whiteflame
Austin
Earth
WyIted
Mharman
Scum
Notes: Austin was highest dp1, his activity this dp has placed him lower, and wylted got placed way lower because of the Owen lynch combined with lack of excitement this game (feels different than when he was town in CoC mafia). Both of these could be because of IRL stuff so I take them with a grain of salt. Mharman feels a bit over defensive to me combined with almost leaving the game after only I had FOS'ed him in dp1, so I placed him pretty low too, but that doesn't neccesarily mean I don't buy that he is doctor. I am still conflicted on that. I am taking everyone's roles and actions into account as well for my main reads. I just thought it was important to take roles out of the equation and put a list together ranked purely on how I see people behaviorally.
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Alright let's analyze Austin a lil bit because I am having trouble with this one.
Town points:
- Austin could have let one of us die in the dreamer results yesterday as scum. The move would cause a ton of chaos and he could get one to two mislynches out of it before he got lynched. He very early on caught on to my hint at investigator, and didn't seem to want me to claim.
- He backed off of it as soon as we prodded him that this was feeling wierd and all parties were potentially town. This felt town to me. The whole ploy felt town and garnered a lot of activity and most of the talk dp1.
- It makes 0 sense for scum austin to not just fake dreamer results coming into dp2. He did himself 0 favors as town by claiming to be visited.
Scum points:
- His play overall this day phase has been lacking. Most of this is due to IRL obligations and he did tell us he would be active tonight so I am waiting for some better activity from him. I don't like the "1 v 1" me mharman thing. I am expecting more from austin and I usually find him to be a pretty avid scum hunter, so this lazy play is shocking to me. I can justify it with him being scum and frustrated maybe that the dreamer play didn't work out they way he thought it would, and maybe he thinks hope is lost and is kind of throwing? I see more motive for him to do that if scum than town.
- I am only kind of putting stock in the argument about there being three investigator roles is scummy because of how OP I personally feel a justice is. A justice can potentially give you two results in one night. Either two town results, two scum results (probably rare) or one town and one scum result. That's insane. Me knowing I am tracker on top of that makes it feel a little crazy. Again this is a first time mod though, and for all I know mafia have counters to all this. In fact if they do, I think a lawyer would be one of them, and I do highly suspect mharman of being a lawyer. If there is a lawyer then I guess this role doesn't feel as OP to me.
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@WyIted
IrL stuff distracting me. My own fault.
Do you need help catching up? I can give you a run down of the day phase.
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@WyIted
Guys I am useless this game. Sorry I am trying but if honestly when it comes time for me to vote I will probably need to read the arguments for why and kean on other people's judgementa
Are you struggling because you've been busy IRL, or is it that you just feel the decision before us is a super hard one to make?
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