Mikal

Gun to your head lynch order 

Apologies if it seems like I’m bullying you. Cus I’m not. I just honestly think you are the best choice from Poe. That does not mean things won’t change my mind. Just that nothing has changed my mind yet. 

Not saying you aren’t trying and I appreciate the effort. It’s just hard for me to read you 

The white flame post seems to largely pull from some of my reads 

As well as saying savant posts a lot and effort 

Wylted - everyone is scum reading him but me and I can buy the logic I still don’t think he comes out antagonizing me out the game as scum, knowing I will death tunnel. 

So it’s like yeah. The effort is admirable but it’s hard to decipher if it’s town or you pulling from other reads as scum and trying to copy a bit. That being said the activity is wonderful and significantly better than I remember you doing before. So I applaud you. 

With moozer back I say let’s hold on earth or Mharm. Want to see what he says then pick after he responds. Unless Austin shows up and then we hold longer.  

I would prefer you full claim. We said between you and Mharm and I want others to weigh in.  I think you are the better option. 

You and Ana use death tunneling very loosely. If you ever saw me death tunnel, you would know that what a death tunnel is. This is Poe and have explained into detail why. Nothing has changed to move you from the top of the list. So I think you are the best person to lock into a claim today. At least with how it stands now. 

And yeah Mharm is a xtrmely hard for me to read. So is superdud. I struggle with players below a certain threshold. That’s not saying they are bad. Just a majority of my mafia was with blue steel, Luna, ft, xlav, f16, Danielle etc. 

Usually when you have players that talk and think a lot, you can always read back and see changes in logic or if their motives shift or stuff does not align 

Certain players tend to bounce all over the place which is usually a scum tell but for them they do it as town 

It’s incredibly hard to read intention from that in my experience 

At least it looks like they aren’t here. I’m watching their profiles and it hasn’t turned green. Can WF check to see their last online. INB4 they are here and just not posting to see if they can get away. I’ve seen it happen but moozer kinda did this a bit last game and someone said Austin is bad about it 

I don’t want to pressure for reads. I want reads in the process. I want to Poe off that and pressure for a full claim. I think we need to tie someone to something this dp. Dp1 is mostly useless. Locking someone into something they cant wiggle out of is always the best use of it imo 

I don’t know if and when the inactives are showing up. They have to be dealt with as mentioned but they aren’t going to respond cus they aren’t here right now. We can figure out how to handle that if they don’t show up. 

But to make use of the time, if it’s Mharm or earth. Let’s pick one and get a full claim 

i agree with letting Mharm clarify his thoughts more fully before we decide so we can Poe properly. 

Both of you are reading Casey as town. I am not sold on this but they are active. Wf and savant are in my town block. Wf loosely. Savant way more firmly. 

I propose we pick someone and get them at l-5 and force a claim. We need to push someone this dp and lock someone into something. 

Personally I think the inactives are a waste of a vote atm. They aren’t here. Voting them does nothing If they are not looking. We will deal with them when they show up or decide if we want to shoot if they aren’t here by Tuesday. If they aren’t here at the end of the dp. We need  a resolution. Replace or kill. Letting them sit there and do nothing is going to throw the game. 

Lets pick someone and force a claim so we get something out of this dp 

I’m fine with 

Earth 

Mharm 

Or Anna 

Are you guys okay with forced pressure on 1/3 

Thoughts ?

I am proposing we wait out the dp at this point. Moozer and Austin have us by the dick so we are largely at their mercy. We should let the clock tick and hope one of them starts to engage 

I can get on board with this except for wylted. I don’t think scum wylted tries to piss me off out of the gate. 

I struggle with Mharm. He is prob the hardest person to read on the site for me. He tends to play so randomly that he is anti town as town.  How play as improved but the thought process with how he gets to ideas is all over the place 

Earth - this is my number one 

How do you propose we deal with inactives if not shoot if they don’t come back ?

WF

Make a lynch order for me. I don’t want reads. I want top to bottom lynch priority on people who are playing. You are doing this thing

Where it’s like I’m not saying we should or shouldn’t and I don’t really read anybody as scum. Lock in and give me an order. Who are we killing ?

I have not seem Adam in ages. Not sure he would do that. 

Few diff ways that could play out. I think it could gave got a rise out of earth and gave some affiliation hints but figured someone would say something before him 

Scum eould not respond. They would let it play out or message him in a pm. They have no incentive to respond to that. If it’s a correct target, they would talk in theirs dms. If he was town they would let it continue to see if he died or how for a Mislynch 

Think the response heavily indicates town 

Reaction test for who responded more than him and I think it just town locked you for me 

The more earth posts the more I think he’s scum. It’s like after pressure he is trying to have some type of reads just to satisfy the push. 

I think I’m sold. 

Luna 

Not town off his reads but his behavior. I think he would commit more as scum.  Ironically the reason I scum read earth is why I town read him. 

Would say he moved from null ish to validating some thoughts I had. Slight town lean now 

starting to lean town heavier on wf 

I did. Sorry back on my phone and running to town for a while. But if you scroll up. I outline it pretty I. Depth. 

Can’t scroll back here but it outlines why I am using that Poe 

Inactives or lack of content is always an easy push. As mafia or town, but if you don't address the issue early it makes it harder late game. 

How would you solve it? 

You don't pressure him, and he just sticks around to the end of the game without ever taking a hard stance and then you are trying to decipher whether he is town or scum with nothing to go off of and it's lylo. 

He is exhibiting behavior that is not towny, and on top of that is not actively taking stances. That is where you put pressure early so it's

1) easier to solve late game

2) easier for him to slip if you lock him into something early

Savant had you as null, I was the first one suggesting we pressure you or earth if I recall. 

I mentioned it above. He is actively posting but has not given anything informative or taken any hard stances with more than enough content to do so. He is also one of the people more likely to fuck up a fake claim, or be inconsistent as scum. 

Lack of taking a stance, pushing anyone, thoughtful analysis or doing anything to move the game forward seems like coasting or scum behavior 

Mix that in with, I think if he is scum, he is one of the scum to likely slip. 

I think he is the best target. 

To clarify, there's always a POE (process of elimination). In the past, and as shown in this game, earth hasn’t gone very in-depth and usually gives short responses. That kind of play could come from either town or scum, but it's hard to get a solid read without more active engagement. Mafia can win games by coasting, and while earth has been consistently contributing, he hasn’t taken any hard stances or pushed his own reads. It feels like he’s saying “I’m here,” but not “I’m locked in.”
As for ana, I’ve explained my position multiple times. The way they started their soft claim just felt off. Even as town, most people don’t casually float an idea and immediately roll with it. It seemed more like an attempt to build towncred than a natural progression. While others might not see it as scummy, I just can’t shake that gut feeling.

Earth and Ana take priority over you in my POE.

Regarding you, your immediate response after being called out was very fast, almost too fast. That kind of quick reaction often comes from scum, though I don’t see it as strong as the other cases. That’s how I’ve built my POE: you're not cleared, but you’re a lower priority compared to the inactives and the two above. The rest either lean town or are null reads.

In short: I think you're potentially problematic, just not as urgent a concern right now. Your instant reply felt like you were waiting to be mentioned before posting. 

Gut read, is just behavior, responses, and in general just additive things where I trust voting them enough to prioritize it. Something is a little off means you did something sussy but I am not sure its enough to prioritize you. 

Yeah you try that in a forum game it will never work, there is to many variables and way to easy to fuck with the results of it. In live you have to give fakes claims and role claims to counter it. It just does not optically work in forum and if anything, just would lead to a fuck ton of possible misslynches. We say 8 est everyone post and someone has something come up, and they are just scum read the entire game. It's a lot easier to pull off in live cus everyone is actively participating. It's way less broke in forums and honestly would probably just fuck us. 

I am pressuring him because he is around. logistically yes if they are lurking but I am not convinced they have even logged on. That list changes once I see stuff they post. I don't think earth or anna will post anything to change my mind this DP, so I am happy locking them into something. Earth prior to anna because I think he is more likely to fuck up a claim. 

Gut reads, you and anna ping me as really off for all the reasons I've already mentioned. I have a gut feeling with you both. I don't have that hard of a read on casey. But find it weird with their response time. 

So order is 

Gut Reads / Instinct 

Innactives - General Liability 

Something just seems a little wrong. 

Okay back around my computer. Will touch on a few points. 

It's hard for me to get a solid read on you because I don’t know enough about your experience. Your post style, linking and pointing to specific issues, reminds me of the meta on MU or MS. I recall you played in the WC, which likely gave you some experience with gut reads and behavior analysis. This site utilizes those far less than the other 2 especially with regards to theory and scumhunting tactics. Logically, you're doing what town should be doing: analyzing intentions, following through on reads, and avoiding fluff.  I’m just unsure if you’d do all this as scum, depending on your skill level. Overall, I appreciate the effort and depth in your posts. I’m leaning town for now, unless POE or new info suggests otherwise. 

TL;DR: You're playing like town, but I’m unsure how much to credit that due to unknown skill level.

A) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515671

B) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515678

C) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515681

D) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515787

This is where I get stuck on White Flame. I was pressuring intentionally, and his response feels like genuine frustration, like a “not this shit again” reaction. That kind of emotion reads as town to me. If he were scum, I think he’d be more controlled and less visibly annoyed. The key question is: is he frustrated because he's being unfairly targeted, or because he got caught? My gut says it’s the former.

A1) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515697

A2) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515831

He’s tossing breadcrumbs, but that’s not necessarily scummy. It could be bait, distraction, or just uncertainty since we haven’t played in years. Paired with his frustration, it does make sense. 

Banana – I still believe, and haven’t changed my mind, that volunteering information unprompted looks like an attempt to farm towncred. Softing is fine, but doing it so willingly just pings me wrong. 
Earth – Insightful reads are tough to get from him. From past experience and as Pie’s pointed out, he tends to lurk and stay inactive. I’ve yet to see him take a strong stance on anything.
Moozer – No Activity 

Austin - No Activity 

Casey - As soon as people started calling him/her out, she was immediately responsive. It seemed like within minutes. This typically but not always is a very plausible sign of scum lurking. I would almost say borderline scum slip with how fast the responded. 

I made my post at 1:10 - https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515786

They posted at 1:18 - https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515788

This is after a very long period of inactivity 

Give me 5 and I’ll make a pretty in depth post 

I’m about to be home and I want to read through this again. I’m heavily contemplating on whiteflame. I wanted to put pressure on him to see his response and I can’t decipher whether it’s scummy or genuine annoyance. He has disappeared a bit. 

I almost would rather pressure earth or bananna. I think we get more out of them but I want to read over everything before I decide. 

Surprised no one else sees value in pressuring earth. 

It doesn’t violate anything. It’s meta in live games. It’s just nearly impossible to do it in forums. 

Sorry post #57. Was re reading and found it. Thought it was after page 3

I would be okay with this but you will never in a million years get this coordination on this site lol 

(Forgive all the other typos and stuff as well. On my phone. Should be able to actually give a pretty in-depth analysis when I’m back on my Computer)

I’m pre 2k

I did above 

Wait what post and what’s scummy. You mean not lynching on numbers?  It’s actual math and this has always been a strong meta for at least a decade 

Lynching on odd numbers gives you an extra Lynch

Where as passing on even allows you a night if info before you munch. 

Assuming no other killing roles exist which you never know. But that’s always been a meta 

Actually going into Walmart before we eat and wanted to go ahead and do this while my mind was churning so I didn’t lose some of my thoughts. Posting them to journal where my head is at now 

Lean town 

Pie - Pie is engaging and following his normal meta. I don’t think he has posted fluff or tried to detract with theme analysis or other vague concepts. Usually scum pie will lead the town on a goose chase and the fact he isn’t taking us in a single direction and just giving thoughts that are game related make me think he is town 

Wylted - I don’t think wylted as scum just outright keeps antagonizing me. Both this game and last he’s just been a passive aggressive little shit and I feel like as scum it doesn’t make sense to draw attention like that 

Savant - tbf this is just a guy read and I skimmed the shit about probability. I never buy into probability in mafia just because of to man varying factors. You have the basic odds and determined by scum to town ratio and that’s it. You can’t control how people act. The post in general seems like geninue scum hunting and analyzing why people are saying and posting things. Could be feigned and don’t know him at all to know how meta but it reads in good faith 

Lean scum 

Earth - one post, was here no initial rv and no value. Could be flying under the radar

Cassie - same 

(Tbf these are weak reads but when people participate and not move the game forward, my head goes to coasting) 

Stronger Scum 

Banana - the post wanting to immediately soft claim a year and being willing to do that with 0 pressure just sits wrong with me. I do think it’s moving the game toward but something about those posts make me think it’s not genuine and was fishing for town card 

Null

Mharm - ima be real. I always have issues reading him. He did pressure vote but he bounces around everywhere and does not stay consistent with this reads and does this regardless of scum or town. I always have issues getting a read on him. Want to see more. 

WF - I don’t know if I can call him Scum yet. It’s mostly null with a potential scum lean. He deflected the pressure and offered up a soft claim. Likely to appease me. But why? Appease me to get me off his back so I don’t catch him again or appease me because he’s actually frustrated he thinks I will make a meta out of chasing him. It’s hard to tell. He played it off as genuine frustration which is my only hesitancy with saying I lean full scum but he’s also experienced enough to play that angle off. 

I’m doing this off a phone and memory as I was thinking about it but the rest have not contributed enough value yet to have decent thoughts. Unless im

Forgetting someone off memory 

Happy savant engaged. I’ll post a read list once I get to a spot where I can take some time and do it. Going out to eat. But yeah once it starts crawling, all you can really do is sit around and hold your dick while people get on.  I will say ideally lack of activity is usually what makes scum win. So if we have people that are just not engaging, we will need a solution for them. Some of the worst players win games by choosing to post fluff or nothing at all 

Totally understand the logic just curious about why you did it unprompted. Suggesting it is one thing but suggesting and leading before you are asked too. Just a mental note. 

Have not been around in years but I’m a legacy member I guess. 2012 roughly ?

Ana it is. I like being personal. Why did you feel the need to soft claim without being asked to?

Do you prefer Ana or Bannnaa?

It’s logical. Dayphase 1 is largely useless. Best way to play it is no lynch if even or lynch if odd. The only way you can get some type of a Poe is pressure people and the pressure can’t be spread, it needs to be targeted. 

as evidenced by last game whiteflame does not do great with pressure. It’s better to lock him into something so if he inevitably tries to correct his statements we have a reference point.