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@disgusted
I said in the far future humans may create it.How does your platform game manifest in our shared reality
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@Mopac
You trust human beings way too much. I'm not trying to be mean bc i respect whatever you're into (that's your world)... but to me, no human being deserves this respect and trust until i know them. And trust me, i take you through a ride to get to know you and you know i. That's just the world i come from and if someone can't match it... i will never know them. I'm not changing who i am over garments. I already know we have different paradises if one can't get on my level. It's really that easy. You should really reflect on the implications of what "god is the ultimate reality" means. People like me also would (have to) exist... no ifs, ands, or buts.
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@Mopac
We have presbyters and bishops and stuff. They are still people. It is a good thing to respect their office and they work they do. They aren't really like overlords or anything. Not like kings or anything.
I would respect them if they are cool people... not bc of the clothing they wear. I think it's ridiculous childish rubbish adults dress up in weird clothes and pretend they're something special. If you know human psychology... it is almost impossible they aren't getting that ego high off walking around in that clothing knowing how others perceive them.
Glad you found a friend.
More of an acquaintance. It's hard to earn my loyalty. I would die for my friends. He's not there yet, and probably won't be... he's my friends coworker. I'll probably just see him when they hang out. He just got out from the Marines and has too many other things to do. He's really cool though. I'd fight for him at this point.
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@Mopac
Our conversation was about one of my beefs with religion which is bowing down to other humans. That's what he meant with the hierarchies... that orthodox don't do that. But who knows man... religion is a mess. Everyone i meet that say they are religious don't know what they really believe. He was more interested in what i believed once i started telling him... that's a telling sign to me anyways.No, we are very much a church with a hierarchy.
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@Mopac
I know I've told you before, and you reject the label, but you totally sound like a satanist.
I guess it depends on how you are looking at it... i talk about personal empowerment for the most part, and so do they. In those regards, you'll find similarities. So i agree with your "'sound' like a satanist" statement... i wouldn't agree if you said i am one (depending on definitions i guess). I don't know what you mean by satanist... all of the official ones i've read about i don't fully agree with. Btw, i met a friend that is Orthodox like you (i think)... learned some new stuff i found interesting like you guys tend to shun human hierarchies, and that you accept humans wrote the text which makes it vulnerable to fallibility (step towards the right direction in my book).
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@disgusted
Agreed.Everyone lives in the same reality
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@disgusted
Abstract "thoughts" ... do you have reading comprehension problems dude? Not running away man. If you have something else to say... i'll get you back later. I have things to do.
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@disgusted
Maybe bc i'm talking about abstract thoughts on a religion forum... ummm... yeah. You have about 15 more minutes to come at me with whatever you got... it's fun, but i have to go soon. You know... reality (in the form of a juicy 1lb top sirloin steak) is knocking. Gotta get those macros.I've read what you write and reality has no place in it.
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@disgusted
I bet you i live in reality a lot more than you do.You live a life where you blissfully ignore reality.
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@disgusted
So what...Humans have been creating gods for over 100,000yrs and they didn't live long back then.
Actually, if you didn't get that statement... technically you're confused.You seem confused.
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@secularmerlin
There are quite a few that definitely think it's possible. But yeah... we really don't know what the future holds. A significant natural disaster can easily make this reality more like a zombie apocalypse.We do not know that it is possible.
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@disgusted
First of all.. i don't have any gods. Second, humans have a good chance to create "gods" if they live long enough... so humans.What would your gods be created by
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@disgusted
Are you talking to me? This is kinda unintelligible, but i think you mean humans create gods... i agree.What would your gods be created by other than man I mean?
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@secularmerlin
I agree with you. I don't think i'll see my belief created here in my lifetime. But the fact that it's possible intrigues me.Unless it gives us some actionable information then yes it is meaningless to us.
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@EtrnlVw
If you personally ask me... i think those souls are on their way here. That is why evolution intrigues me in a spiritual sense too. As the Joker says... "all it takes is a little push."You'll see when you leave this world the souls there are much more aware
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@secularmerlin
Is it meaningless if it has the potential to create gods?It is meaningless from pur perspective.
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@Pinkfreud08
That shit was depressing... the music sucked. Send him this:
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@secularmerlin
Reality is as Reality does.
Btw... that is why i haven't counted out "god" personally... although my reasons are a lot more twisted than a Christians.
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@secularmerlin
Should is inconsequential. Reality is as Reality does.
I agree it's inconsequential. Reality is what i have. I will go through its suffering and happiness. My point is... i wouldn't be who i am in this life if that didn't continue. I'd be something else... same as dead and gone in my opinion. So if i don't die... it's going to be the same ole'shit, but maybe i can throw some Goku power into that suffering.
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@secularmerlin
Maybe. But... should reality eternally give us what we want?As charming as that idea is there is no evidence to suggest that reality bothers itself very much about what we want.
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@secularmerlin
At this point... if i can say so very solipsistically... only my mind exists. So, the implications of that can be pretty wild.What is possible?
Honestly, i just want "what is" to create my belief.What does that have to do with what is?
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@secularmerlin
I guess if there is a difference, it would be what we can prove to today vs. what is possible.
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@secularmerlin
We are just different then. Bc if the standard is sufficient evidence... i personally have that. So my suspicions aren't irrational. But i know i don't have proof. So i also agree with you that it would be irrational if i told you to believe what i do. However, it is further irrational (imho) to think what we currently know is shit... We really don't know much. To me, proof means what i can prove today. I don't agree with that standard bc i think we are still monkeys. Maybe i'm wrong and we are at our greatest understanding... but i would put all my money down that i'm not wrong.I would argue that any belief without sufficient evidence (and as you say testimonial evidence, even our own, is deeply flawed) cannot be rational.
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@secularmerlin
If you cannot prove the evidence to me then it is not evidence for me. As to actual proof of spirituality my desires are completely immaterial. If there is no sufficient evidence then I cannot believe and if there is sufficient evidence then I must believe.
I agree with you. Like i said, i think when you are saying sufficient evidence, you mean objective evidence that would prove it real for you too. I agree there is none of that. However, when i talk to you about why i'm spiritual (at least in my case) i have enough evidence to suspect there is something going on. Of course, testimonial evidence i really flawed... i know this first hand being a paralegal. But, there are credible testimonials. That's why i always say, even if i put my experiences aside, there is enough testimonial evidence in this world to suspect a spiritual platform. This isn't anywhere close to proof... and if proof is your standard, i agree with you... continue being you bc you're right. I can't prove it. No one can at this point. But, i've had enough experiences, as an agnostic minded person, to say ... you know what... there is something more than just coincidence and randomness. And this makes me think... if it's happened to me to a point that it's mind bending... i wonder what others have experienced... i wonder. That wonder is the only proof we have at this point. Bc whatever we know today will be flipped upside down. Will it one day prove spirituality, or not... i don't know. But i think there is enough for us not to ignore spirituality. Which to me just means realities beyond ours and intelligences beyond ours. I don't think that's unreasonable from what we currently know as a whole... not just off the standard of proof.
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@secularmerlin
No amount of insufficient evidence will ever add up to sufficient evidence and only one piece of sufficient evidence wpuld be enough all on its own.
But what if ... the observer, lets say that's me, has had sufficient evidence? I can't prove that evidence bc as far as i know... it only happened to me. Therefore, what if there are people with sufficient evidence... just not enough for it to be proof. And, all proof means is that it's for everyone. Wouldn't spirituality make more sense if it's only for the observer and not for everyone? If everyone had the same evidence as i did... they would be exactly like me... how boring would life be if everyone is the same? I don't see what good sufficient evidence would do anyone. If Christians can prove their belief... we all have to be Christian. If Muslims prove their belief... we all have to be muslim. I personally don't want objective proof of spirituality. I think it's perfect as it is... i don't see why you would want "sufficient evidence" which i'm construing to mean proof.
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@EtrnlVw
I hear ya, it's a shame we can't go into the fun stuff. Still arguing about minor things, things that really don't even pertain to the soul and the Source.
Isn't that the most frustrating thing in hell? You want to talk about your evidence, you want to talk about your logic, you want to talk about your reasoning, but some asshole calls you irrational off the bat and anything beyond... "well, you can't prove god to 'me' (selfish devils)" ... doesn't even get talked about. It's really sad, but it does fit into my belief however. This is a movie man... some characters are what they are... it's funny bc if they could easily change... they'd prove me wrong.
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@3RU7AL
Let's approach this tautologically.Either there is a "universe builder" or there is not.
Why must you start interesting questions. I'm suppose to be in the gym. Caught me on a day off, so i'll try to answer all of this.
If there is a "universe builder", what are the practical implications?
It really depends on the builder. But, i've followed this rabbit hole to one conclusion... if it is anything that involves me... then i'll have to deal with it.
If there is not a "universe builder", what are the practical implications?
Well, there are some spiritual conclusions you can make off this but the answer would be the same as above. If there is nothing... and you die, and are gone.. again, i'm the one that deals with it, but in that case... it's sorta a blessing since the implications of continuing to be me can be horrible. You turn to nothing... and life, or reality goes on without me. I've accepted this conclusion and it's quite peaceful, but boring as well. It's really simple when the conclusion is you being erased. Not much thought after that.
Since the practical implications are identical, we can conclude that the existence or non-existence of a "universe builder" is moot.
And this is where i absolutely agree. Both conclusions lead to one ultimate conclusion... i'm here and i have to deal with it. The difference with spiritually minded people (some at least) is that i like to imagine and strengthen myself for the "if" question. If i do continue being me, i'll have to deal with that too. So, i will imagine i am a god bc why would i imagine anything different. I wouldn't want to be weak, i wouldn't want to be a slave, i wouldn't want to be a servant, etc. If it's nothing, and there is no builder and just this reality... then, easy ending. If it is anything else... that builder better be powerful if he/she thinks it can face me. That's my mentality. But you are absolutely right in that this is all moot. Even in my belief... i am currently in paradise. This world is all i know i have, and what i have... so the builder can f* off and die for all i care... it's my experience here and now that matters.
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@EtrnlVw
You know me... i've counted out many gods but also believe they all exist lol, but i have not counted out all of this being a manifestation of some kind of infinite consciousness type platform. I think that is what you're calling god... so, haven't quite counted it out. There are way too many logic arguments for it. I want to get into it... but, i've been resting from this site. Got into Muay Thai training again so i'm always spent by the time i'm home. I personally like how it fixes the infinite regress paradox... that's my favorite mind bend of the source platform. Keep going, i do enjoy reading these threads bc i know it's not going to be about the Bible... sick of those threads :/
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@janesix
fragmented sleep, insomnia, tingling/numbness in toes, fingers, tongue; painful feet, hungry all the time, general shitty feeling all the time
Fragmented sleep, insomnia, feeling shitty... those are all signs of depression and anxiety.
Hungry all the time... that can be a result of the medications you take. Most psych meds make you crave carbs or sugars.
Tingling/numbness in toes, etc... that can be a sign of a disc problem in your lower back. I don't know your weight, but higher the weight and the more you don't stretch and stay in one place or sit a lot can lead to disc problems. I'd get this one checked out soon, or go to the hospital if you get flop feet where it just drops without your control. You can get irreversible damage when that happens if you don't get it treated.
Painful feet... that can be from the above disc problem too, or some kind of pressure foot sprain.
From the above i would be able to assume (i don't mean to be rude or anything) that you are overweight and do not exercise or move around too much. Exercise can really help all of the above, and same with eating healthy.
Everything i'm telling you is from experience of what happened to me... for i had all of the above in the past. As soon as i started eating healthy, going to the gym, most all of the symptoms above are now gone. So, i can tell you this works from my experience if you do have similar issues. I also take a medication that makes me crave sugars and carbs, but now i eat mainly a veggie / meat diet and that alone is very filling so i don't crave anything else, and if i do... i can eat it here and there bc i exercise. That's why both exercise and eating healthy are so effective. Plus, if you push yourself when you exercise... to your limit, the amount of endorphins your body releases is like taking drug. It's easier said than done however, i understand that... but the better you can do this yourself, the better you'll feel for a host of reasons. I never believed it would work until i said screw it... i'm sick of feeling like crap. It's a mindset.
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@TheRealNihilist
substantial argument
You still don't get it... and it's the main reason why i'm in forums and not formally debating. This isn't a debate. There is no one side is right one side is wrong. You can only discuss possibilities and use the reason and logic we have to count the less logical out... but, some of them... you just have to say, who knows. You can use reasoning to say the Abrahamic religions are not a good possibility, you can use reasoning to say Valhalla is not a good possibility, but you can't use our present day knowledge to say nothing happens after death. I never took philosophy to get into complex arguments with you... My simple argument is we don't know enough to say what happens after death. That's my argument if you're looking for one. An argument i'm quite sure i've repeated a couple times now.
For something to be reasonable it requires evidence.
I also told you there is evidence to "suspect" there "could be" a reality beyond ours. The fact we can create a virtual reality, and likely in the future make that into another reality, indicates its possibility. But my main thing is testimonial evidence. Again i'll say, if only one testimony of someone having a spiritual experience happened in a spiritual way that would be proof. I personally doubt the millions of experiences people have reported isn't "at least enough" to "suspect" there "could be" a spiritual level to all this. This is even if i don't count my own experiences. Beyond that i have to go research again which i don't feel like doing but there are plenty of scientific hypothesis and metaphysical hypothesis out there. *I hope highlighting words helps bc you keep reading over them.
You really triggered.
You're being a child. If this conversation was about the logic of arguments and philosophy... i would gladly concede i am not well versed enough and yes... i would ask for advice if i saw you know more. But i don't have to remember what ad hominem fallacy is to make the points i'm making.
Anecdotal evidence is subject to your feelings
I misread that the first time... i thought you said something else. Of course it's subject to feelings.
"off anecdotal evidence". That doesn't mean it was the reason the person was guilty it was the basis like a claim. Actual evidence was required like fingerprints, blood etcetera.
That is not true. There are ways to verify testimonial evidence... and there are plenty of cases that's all that's needed. It's tougher in criminal law bc the threshold is higher, but it happens. Say your roommate see's you get murdered but they can't find any other evidence from the perp... do you think the guy gets away with murder just bc they couldn't find any other evidence? It all comes down to if the person is "believed" .. if so, it's enough evidence.
Basically they pretty much say theists have already have the answer and science needs to catch up and some of them are in such denial that they actually think science has proven the existence of a God.
Why do you keep bringing theists and god into this... i don't believe in either. I don't believe any religion. I don't believe anyone knows what is beyond this reality, if anything. My belief only has to do with myself (and my arguments for why that's the case stands)... And, to further define my words since i am not using the common definition, when i say belief i mean i suspect more than not in the context of saying anything beyond this reality/after death. However, my standard remains the same. I do not think "proof" is necessary to have a hypothesis... if that was the case, we'd be stuck in the past. Examining and brainstorming possibilities from current knowledge is what pushes us forward. Not thinking about it bc it lacks proof is short-sighted but also necessary for certain people to have.
The burden was on you to prove spirituality but still you have not.
You're quite the broken record. Here is my argument for "spirituality." Something happens when you die. You really don't listen, assume way too much (but that's understandable), have reading comprehension problems, or maybe it's my fault. Since i'm increasingly getting tired of this, site in general not this conversation, i'll spell it out: I don't have proof of an afterlife, i don't have proof of multi-realities, my belief (suspect more than not) only currently applies to myself, the world is like a movie... well... that one i can prove since movies are made off the world, my religion is people (not something i need to prove), we don't have proof what happens after death (no one's come back to tell about it - but those that 'say' they have may throw a wrench a little but it's not brain death)... furthermore on that one, we don't know enough about consciousness (or this reality) to say it ends with brain death... the counter claims to that are too easily addressed like the radio wave argument and other hypos, we don't know enough to say there are no other realities (what is beyond our universe - what is before the big bang - we don't know), there is enough evidence to suspect spirituality (i define, which you should have asked ages ago but it's my fault, spirituality as something beyond this reality / death)... Also, this evidence can be proven wrong in time, but it hasn't been yet which is why i continually use the word suspect... What else did i say... umm, can't remember, so there it all is for the millionth time but i hope you can follow it if it's in one place. If i said anything counter to these assertions, or said i have proof of something which you keep assuming or making up, bring it up and i'll gladly concede. Oh in regards to rational and irrational... i've defined my position enough. I'm not going to be the one continually asserting i'm rational or not... which then would be projecting.
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@TheRealNihilist
So why aren't you showing this breakthrough to scientists?
I've answered this a 100 times now.
Shouldn't you wait until you have actual proof for your positions for it to not be irrational?
Irrational means lack of reasoning and logic... you don't need proof to reason. Like i said, it's irrational to say something is proven without proof, but it is not if you are merely looking for the best platform. You actually have to try and be hyper rational to look at spirituality in that way.
I am not believing in something I have no proof over.
Trust me... i know. I just find that to be narrow-minded. These words aren't offensive, and don't mean you're wrong either... it just means, in my eyes, you're the guy thousand years ago saying the earth is flat bc they couldn't prove you wrong. You could be right, but you could be very wrong. That's why my standard towards things isn't proof... it's reasoning and logic. I'd rather let proof catch up than make that my standard.
Anecdotal is not accepted anywhere. For it to be considered evidence it would require more than just a survey.
What and what??? Do you know how many people i've found guilty in the law firm i work for off anecdotal evidence? Do you know how many people are in jail / prison bc of anecdotal evidence. There are different types of evidence... you're aware of that right? Anecdotal evidence is only not accepted by scientists bc there is no way to test it... that's it. It's our scientific limitations currently.
No so are you laughing at your failures as a person to me?
No... i'm laughing bc i'm basically a psych minor in regards to how many classes i've taken on human behaviors. And criminal minds and interrogation is my guilty pleasure so i'm pretty well versed in psychology. I wouldn't say i'm the one projecting here... but, that's just me.
There is one reality not 2 and for you to make that claim would require evidence if you don't want to be irrational.
There is enough evidence to suspect there is more than one reality (IMO - and many others)... you should really define your words bc i don't know how you are defining evidence nor rationality. It feels like to me you're straying from the common use definitions. Metaphysically there is, even scientifically there is: i.e. implications of things such as multi-verse, many world hypothesis, etc.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence apart from your feelings.
How do you know what it is when you've never experienced it nor know my experiences? You're not the type of person i like talking about this with... you're too sure in your echo chamber. Plus, you replied this comment on something i said spiritual people need proof... do you even understand the differences in evidence... Maybe i should wait until you learn a little more. I don't feel like being a teacher.
I am not sharing it.
Haha i'm done... you're pretending like you can prove spirituality wrong. The height of arrogance. What do you have to share? You have nothing if the standard is proof. I already admitted that i don't 100 times... i'm getting sick of repeating myself.
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@TheRealNihilist
So why aren't you showing this breakthrough to scientists?
Are you not listening?
To say scientists cannot find a common link between spiritual experiences
"Science however, in my opinion, will figure it out one day"
Are you not listening?
science would find a link to it with what is observable in the material realm.
Are you not listening?
evidence and explanation and you can't even manage that
"Evidence is currently anecdotal"
Are you not listening? The explanation part i currently don't have a desire to get into with you.
projecting
Lol.
I have a standard which I use for my beliefs. A claim supported by evidence with an explanation.
Here let me tone it down a bit... your position isn't irrational. Your assumption that you know something is false beyond your own expertise, beyond any of our expertise, is irrational. You're assumption that i can provide you proof is irrational. Your standard that you need proof or i'm false, is irrational. This conversation, again not listening on your part, isn't about proof. It's about rationalizing far out future, beyond this reality, possibilities from what we currently know. It is not irrational to suspect a metaphysical truth. You can both be rational in figuring out this world, and until this world proves one or the other right, it's also rational in figuring out realities beyond ours. It is however not rational to say you know something is true or false without having proof. I disagree with anyone under the spiritual banner that says they have figured out the truth unless they can prove it.
If you are rational you would be able to prove the existence of spirituality.
Disprove spirituality for me please.
Don't act like I was the one who started this kind of mood
I am actually quite comfortably having this conversation... however, i am starting to suspect it won't get very far. I don't like where i have to start "Defining every little nuance that i say" ... and you may not agree with my definitions. You may not have noticed, but i've been asking you questions throughout this. I always do so indirectly bc i want to know you first. I've found it moot to have this conversation with someone that can't/doesn't want to imagine possibilities. Plus, other things like definitions and so on... it gets tiresome to be honest. When i told you i would kill for my family bc that is how important they are... you replied with nothing really. So obviously your way of looking at things is different than mine. I can't say you're wrong in who you give importance to, other than i disagree. Same thing here, i can't tell you to drop your standard bc that's not what i'm talking about... if that is the standard you want to take... it's currently the best we have. But, just like the importance thing, our current standard is subject to evolve giving it more than just one meaning to me, so again, i just disagree with you. If you look at importance as a numbers game, i don't agree. If you look at our present knowledge being sufficient enough to prove or disprove spirituality, i don't agree. If you look at both from your pov, they're rational bc it's your experience. It gets irrational when you assume i look at it the same as you do and somehow i'm proven wrong bc i can't prove that to you.
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@mustardness
financial or standard of living equalization.
I'm on your side with this issue. Which is good you bring it up... until we can figure out ourselves and fix our difference. Fix our mentality... seriously fix the people in this country to not see black and white... then, when we fix all of that.. guns will be moot. If not, i'd be willing to to listen to your side of the issue more... but only then. If we don't fix our issues... i'd rather have my weapons bc i fear chaos can be looming. I'd rather people have their weapons bc the people pushed into the corner by society will bite back. Our current state requires firearms for our freedom and protection. I rarely talk about the present, i'm usually a futurist... But this present issue cannot be ignored. Either we fix ourselves, or protect ourselves while we go mad. Your issue isn't with guns and you don't see it... your issue is with our current societal state. No gun laws will fix that.
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@TheRealNihilist
In the face of no evidence you are supposed to default to not believing
I have evidence. You keep saying no evidence. "You" don't have evidence. "Scientists" don't know how to find spiritual evidence through the scientific method. Therefore, i don't have a scientific way of providing evidence... but, if i have experienced object manipulation, strong premonitions, etc. all of them consistent and that have repeated throughout my life... then i have evidence. You're the one being irrational assuming you know 7 billion people plus, plus... don't have any evidence. How do you know? It's the height of arrogance for you to think our present day methods and knowledge is far enough to provide "you" proof (hard evidence). If you can't get beyond this fact... you are both irrational and narrow-minded. There's nothing else i can do... you are what you are. Continues proving me right about the movie angle, i don't care how far you can push yourself beyond that.
What makes you rational? And why?
Can you not answer this? Everything else i wrote you are throwing out the window... when i have used my experiences, observations and attained knowledge to come up with rational explanations... you throw them out the window (on top of all the other frivolous talking points). What makes you rational? Do you even know?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Nice dude... you got the second most rare type. Mines INFJ... beat ya on rarity ;p But do you agree with it? Did you find any flaws or nuance it may have missed? Also i like asking this from the rare types... do you feel like you're one of the rare types?
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@TheRealNihilist
Where is the evidence for spirituality that you have given?
You haven't asked me....maybe that's why? I have had spiritual experiences all throughout my life, four of them being on a profound level meaning i can't come up with an easy logical explanation and disprove it at the same time... it could have happened or not. The experience is what matters. I'm not going to get into it unless you want to know, so ask. There's a lot of context and writing on my part... but i'm not going to get into it if your starting position is "flat earther" so he's dumb. It makes me think i'm talking to an irrational person and i'd rather not waist my time.
Yes I talk to irrational people which is clearly shown with my conversations.
What makes you rational? And why?
Give me a claim evidence and an explanation for spirituality
The only evidence that exists is anecdotal. I can't just give you the evidence. If it was hard evidence... spirituality would be proven. And, if my belief is right and proven... everyone (just about) would kill themselves. You also wouldn't be you anymore... you'd be spiritual. Every character in the game would be affected by one belief... that's a nightmare. Therefore, if you want evidence... you have to listen to those that experienced it. But even that's hard bc humans are petty... the liars and greedy ones are many. But the truth is... out of all the spiritual experiences people have had through time... only one has to be true. If one truly happened in a metaphysical way... then that's proof. But, again... that's not proof or evidence to you unless you believe them. Your side fails to see that.
cross-examined evidence in order to get answer.
Humans are still monkeys man... are you kidding me? Hard evidence and proof through the scientific method is to figure out this reality. Firstly, why would you think that is a sufficient way to examine something beyond this reality? And secondly, do you truly think our monkey minds right now are even close to understand anything beyond this reality? How about, once science figures out our reality... maybe then we can talk about scientific evidence. My belief is about infinity... beyond this world. Science is actually impressing me, the many world hypothesis is a watered down version of my beliefs. But they ain't close man...
Lastly, the scientific method is most accurate with repeatable phenomena. Spiritual experiences are not repeatable. At least in my case. I doubt anyone's is, and i tend to not believe people that say they can control experiences, but i don't know 7 billion people. So who knows. From my experiences, they just happen. I can't repeat them, however... i personally can predict them. Bc certain events in the past triggered experiences. Therefore, when these events happen again i should have another experience. However, i can't predict these future events bc they're also random. That's what i've noticed with experiences... they're random, therefore... the scientific method is not viable. Science however, in my opinion, will figure it out one day... just not now. We're still monkeys. But again who knows... maybe someone in the world knows the truth... again, if i'm right, they would rightly hide that truth from everyone. But i'm pretty sure we are monkeys and have no clue.
So the introductory to spirituality on this is... it's whatever you think it is. To me, god is in my mind, my truths are in my mind. Whether i die and become nothing, go to heaven, go to hell... it will be "Me" that has to deal with it. My spiritual belief is that my mind is infinite, and i'm in full control. Therefore whatever you believe is in your mind and has nothing to do with me. Until you can prove to me what happens after death, none of your beliefs apply to me. I am an infinite being having a finite experience with infinite other finite experiences to be had. It's very simple but also very complex.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
My story is way too long... and also leads me down a metaphysical route which isn't really atheist but agnostic in nature. I'll try to be concise.
Basically, ever since i can remember... and this is 4 years old and up (maybe even 3 bc i corroborated my memories with my family) I've always thought i came from another reality. This feeling of being in the wrong place haunted me for awhile and made me malleable to other faiths... but i always found a flaw in all of them bc they don't know Me. And that's important... Fast forward again through heaven, hell and spiritual experiences, what i realized is whatever the answer is... whether it's heaven, hell, nirvana, Valhalla, or nothingness... it's going to happen to "me." If i stay conscious... i will have to deal with whatever is next... no one else. So, fast forward again to now... i believe no one knows my mind better than i do. Whatever you believe... i don't give af... that belief is in your head and has nothing to do with me. That's my mentality now.
I will continue to believe i'm in full control of my consciousness. No one else. I remember my childhood again, i remember who i always knew i am... so, i think it's best to go with that until we can figure out what was before the big bang and maybe prove all the spiritual people wrong or prove all the atheists wrong. Sure i agree with atheist about a sky daddy... but, I'm just happy to know god exists in my mind... what are the implications of that... different story.
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@bsh1
I think you're doing a good job. I push my conversations to the limit of insults but never maliciously... you haven't talked to me once. So, you're doing good. If you can understand context and passion... then, that's a good moderator. Keep it up.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I'll look up videos. I'll be honest, i've never searched that topic... but i get what you mean that people are blind to the future. We keep evolving. People forget that. This is why i'm so impressed with the MBTI test. Once you understand it's not a personality test... it's an indicator. You'll see why the world is what it is. The majority of people are "S" types... which means they are mainly only present in the moment. The "N" types that think into the future are more rare. It's crazy to me how accurate it is once you get the psychology of it.In a response to making guns, weapons in the comfort of your own home
If you've never done it, i'd be curious to know what you get if you're willing to take the test: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp
I've studied it for awhile now and understanding this really opens your eyes to why people are how they are.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
What am i looking for? Although... resin knives was pretty cool. Haven't seen that before.
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@mustardness
Ive heard many peopl around these parts infer/imply that any who want to carry a gun
They're wrong if they think children should carry. I'd go as far as making the carry age 25 yo when we know the frontal cortex has developed... and other restrictions like not giving carry to drug addicts or even recovered drug addicts bc they may be impulsive. We can make a good law out of it. I'm not saying throw all logic out the window and literally let everyone carry.
I thought those people were aka the police
If someone just rushed into your house right now, do you trust the police can help you?
I fear the idea of every person that has ability to aim and pull a trigger,
I agree with you. I wouldn't want this either. I think this stems from your assumption that gun debate side equals trump side so it must be a dumb idea... That's a huge error that is destroying our society currently... worse than any gun in my opinion.
There is probably movies out there with this type of modern society armed to tooth.
This shows how fantasy based your idea is... all you have to do is go to a state like Vermont to be proven wrong. All of what you said would happen is a movie idea.. not reality. I think this law should be crafted carefully for one. And two, most people that will carry a gun would also know what to do with it. If they don't, they'll simply be one of the people fleeing if something happened just as if they didn't have a gun. I can tell you haven't been around a lot of shooters before from your statements. I even doubt you've gone to a shooting range. Bc if you did, you'd see the people i'm talking about and how humbling it is to stand next to another person holding one of the most powerful things on this planet in their hand. You haven't felt that level of respect i'm assuming.
You may say I'm dreamer,
I'm one of the biggest dreamers you'll meet, but i refuse to daydream while people are dying.
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@TheRealNihilist
What do you mean by narrow minded?
I gave you an infinite case to examine. Instead of trying to understand what i mean when i say that, you resorted to why should i talk about it when things are finite. Narrow minded in that you're not even trying to get out of your own way of thinking. That gives me no challenge and gives you no new understanding.
flat-earther the Earth
Even with a flat-earther you have to first understand why they believe what they do to its completion and then start tearing it down. It's irrational if you just assume they're wrong without hearing them out first... even if you're quite sure they're wrong. Plus, we aren't talking about flat-earthers, or religious people, or anyone else... you're talking to me. And i very much doubt you have ever heard of a spiritual platform like mine. Without exploring it, you aren't trying to understand it, and if you don't understand it... how are you being rational in critiquing it? You are essentially comparing me to a flat-earther... wtf? Another example of a narrow-mind if you think my position is even close to being correlative to a flat-earther. Jeezus.
All I want to be met in order for me to argue about it is a claim, evidence and explanation.
I have all three which is why i suspect what i do with more favor than the alternatives. But you wouldn't know this bc you're not asking anything significant to have an understanding.
Interesting to you doesn't mean it was interesting to me.
And why should that matter to me? I started to talk about the spiritual angle bc i noticed you said some interesting things to the religious people here. It was interesting to me, but that doesn't mean i thought you'd have anything interesting to say against my beliefs... just thought you'd have potential to. I've debated my belief for years now... so, i've heard probably everything from the opposition side and i'm still left with nothing. So, i know your position (if it's against) but i am not going to assume i know you. That's the difference bw us. I'm still willing to hear you out although i'm quite sure you can't scratch what i believe... but, i don't know since you're you. I won't assume that which is why i'm willing to spend my time on this. I'd ask for the same courtesy.
If my agenda is I want to know why you think that way and if it is based on rationale then I will argue. I get annoyed when someone decides to not acknowledge when they are wrong or doesn't even care about being reasonable.
Look... i will be the first one to tell you i'm wrong. I even know there are levels to my belief that we both just don't know. You can't disprove it, i can't prove it. However, i'm the type of person that can't believe what i do if it doesn't cover everyone. Therefore, as much as i don't want to define things within the platform, i've had to. But i've done this for awhile now... and i feel i've covered a lot of the inconsistencies thanks to people like you willing to challenge me... so that's what i can argue, i think i have it down. If you show me i'm inconsistent or something doesn't logically make sense... i will tell you you're right and that i have to rethink it... i've done that 100 times now. I'm not kidding when i say i like being proven wrong... i truly do like that feeling. It gives me something new to think about vs. being convinced i have it perfect right now... bc i shouldn't. But, i've been pushed by some pretty smart dudes throughout my debate site years. So i'm at least confident... but we can't even get started if you don't try to understand what i believe and why. In any case, this is all if you even have to desire to... this is my favorite subject, i don't expect it to be yours.
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@secularmerlin
Okay, so i can say this spirit has a plan for you. Maybe it's suppose to hold your garage up for awhile bc if it didn't... something in your experience would change. In a deterministic way, maybe you wanted this spirit or the spirit knows your path and must hold the garage up for a certain period of time in order for something to happen that should happen. In any of these cases, we don't know. Maybe there is a guiding hand to your experience, maybe there isn't... that's what it comes down to if we clean up your example that's just meant as a red herring of sorts. But at least we know how your garage was made.The other is the perfect spirit of a garage which unbeknownst to the builders enters the garage upon completion. Can you disprove this or are you simply being skeptical of an unnecessary and unprovable hypothesis?
I'd ask how you know this? How do you know there isn't a guiding hand in this scenario too? How do you know the universe gets along fine without consciousness? If everything is a manifestation of this type of source, even the logical stuff we know today that we think is just existing bc of rules could be set up by this source. It really comes down to things we just don't know. We know very little about the universe as it is, we know nothing about the before... But we do know a garage needs a builder. To say the universe 'may' need some kind of builder isn't an illogical assumption to make. It starts getting illogical once we try to define the builder, bc then we're getting into the whole garage spirit assumptions that anyone can just make up. There may be truth to it, but it's just one persons story in trying to define things. As little as we know, i think both explanations of the universe not needing a builder or it having one are both likely scenarios... it's not illogical to suspect either or.In either case how is this different than believing that the universe (most of which seems to get on just fine without conciousness) requires a conciousness in order to exist?
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@secularmerlin
What precisely makes belief in god(s) more rational than a garage spirit? Just because you "think" they would have better things to do? Claerly they don't or my garage would fall over. Seems as rational as a belief in any entity/conciousness/being that we have no direct observable evidence of to me.
A person built your garage with precise measurements and engineering to keep it up... hmm...
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@TheRealNihilist
It wasn't straight forward. Beliefs can be based on anything so I don't talk about beliefs more so reasons you have for that belief. Reason is it is an area where I can have some way of having an argument whereas a belief is most of the time an emotional attachment. Since I don't know the person I wouldn't know how to gauge on that level and doubt they would be forthcoming with the emotional attachment and it is also a touchy subject which I think I am a bit of a sociopath when it comes to trying to push for answer when someone is emotional.
Spirituality is what i mostly think about (sociopath myself in that regard)... it's my favorite subject. Everyone, quite literally, everyone i've met i bring it up (if there's time to)... it's rarely been a touchy subject for me and always ends in a really interesting conversation. Not to toot my own horn, but maybe it's bc i'm being honest and know what i'm talking about. Also, if someone gets triggered... it's usually someone deluded that they're right... either atheist or spiritual. You don't want to talk with people like that anyways (at least in person)... Thankfully, i've noticed the majority of people i run into aren't too unreasonable if you are respectful.
"I laughed" at pushing people when they're triggered... i must say, i'm opposite but i love watching it as long as you're making sense.
I don't know who you're talking to man, or how you approach it... bc my experience has been people love talking about their beliefs. But if your goal is to change their belief to yours... whether it be spiritual or death is nothing at all... then you would be no different than a zealot. Maybe that's why you have a hard time getting answers... bc you have your own agenda. I've sorta noticed that from you... i've given you many scenarios but you'd rather play word games from a very narrow minded perspective. Things like "this is the only reality" "Why even talk about infinite when things are finite" Or assuming it's all "emotional".. You're not trying to push for answers... you're trying to push your own belief. At least so far with me... don't know why you don't ask interesting questions. I've seen your ability to do so against others here. But anyways, if you push your agenda... an emotional person will naturally get defensive. So maybe that's why you encounter that when talking about it.
Damn... i pulled a joker quote hehehe. I was pretty drunk on that one btw.
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@mustardness
I'm sorry... for someone that makes out to be intellectual, this reply is idiotic. Who in their right mind is saying give everyone a gun. I want people with protector hearts to carry. People that would face death bc they want nothing more but to protect people. I want those guys / girls to have a gun bc i know they will be that protector when shit goes down. Why are you so scared of guns? I almost feel it's bc people are bullies in real life and they are scared that they can't be mean to people anymore bc they'll be afraid of them if they had a gun. I say... Good! Everyone should fear a fellow man if they intend to do them harm.1} in most cases humans already are sitting ducks ergo give every man woman and child who can aim and pull a trigger a gun. Yeah that sounds real smart, except to a duck.
You're living in a fantasy. We will never, or anytime in the near future, get rid of all weapons on earth. In a short time, people will be able to make whatever weapon they want... we are evolving. You are talking about a fake scenario where i need to go find an infinity stone and ask thanos to snap his fingers and change reality... that's how ridiculous your position is. And all along the way... Innocent people are dying bc of people like "you" with a pipe dream.2} 2nd if guns { weapons } --ex hyrdogen bombs-- no longer existed on Earth then access to them is going to be more difficult. Agreed? Well that aught to make a huge differrence in of itself.
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