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@Goldtop
So your argument is that i'm lying and so is everyone else? If that is how you look at the world then nothing is going to be compelling. You've closed yourself off. But i must say, you thinking i'm lying is the most interesting thing i've heard from you thus far.
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@SkepticalOne
Well quite frankly, it has to do with evidence (one part of it). Just bc you haven't experienced anything doesn't mean no one has. I've personally experienced events that were paranormal in nature. Are they is another debate. But even if i put aside my own experiences there are many other people that report them. Even if we say 99.9% of them are incorrect for whatever reason... that fraction of a percent that actually happened would be evidence. Now, i am not of the opinion that many are lying. I would still say a large portion are mistaken/lying, there are way too many idiots in this world, but there is a portion of that percentage that would be clear minded and honest people. So to say that there is no evidence i think is dishonest. Yeah, i'll admit it's evidence no one likes, but it's evidence none the less.
What this evidence leads to is another story. All we can do is speculate at this point. It could be something natural we aren't aware of, or it can be from another universe somehow interacting with ours, or it can be spiritual, etc. But since this question has to do with me i suppose, i would say there is a higher intelligence. I don't see why there couldn't be.. it actually is not only possible to me, but probable. Given endless time, i don't see why consciousness couldn't manifest in a different way. Why can't everything be a manifestation of this consciousness? If we have an infinite reality we run into a paradox. If we have a limited reality we run into a paradox. But if everything is a part of an undying conscousness... then, there are no infinities or limits per se... it's just all a manifestation of a consciousness.
So... i don't know. The experiences i've had at the very least tell me there are things that we aren't aware of... separate but in addition, things that appear invisible and intelligent. Then, if i think into it... to me, this source of everything intelligence(s) makes sense more than not.
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Cities will be dominated by thieves, the Vedas will be contaminated by speculative interpretations of atheists, political leaders will virtually consume the citizens, and so-called priests and intellectuals will be devotees of their bellies and genitals -- Srimad Bhagavatam 12.3.32
Oh look a prophecy... The Bible is wrong and Hinduism is right... this is after all a much more accurate prophecy. And... a lot more of this in Hinduism to boot.
The Bible's prophecies are no better than any other prophecy... Or guess. There are psychics that predict a persons entire life. Are they prophets too? I guess Wicca should be the ultimate religion since it's so accurate.
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@bsh1
That's what i thought the problem would be... but if you said they can contest it, and that thread doesn't get erased... then, they made it public themselves and people could see why they got banned. So that would work just fine.
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@bsh1
I see. But still, what if in the case they didn't get to or think of reaching out to their friends on the site? I'm only bringing this up bc i've noticed threads that get out of hand due to speculation. That only brings negativity and doubt towards moderation. Although, them being able to protest it is a good way to go about it. I almost think that's enough since if someone gets banned for a bad reason... they will most def. voice that. I don't know. If they do make a thread to contest it... does that thread stay up or get erased after their ban's in effect?
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@SkepticalOne
I'm sorry man. It's literally my only fear in this life to lose either my mom or dad. This world sucks when it comes to that. I'm going to honor him by playing a song on the piano for him tonight. I know that's not much... but, i've enjoyed your comments and thoughts throughout the years, so i know your dad's probably even cooler than you ;pI recently lost my father and I don't have the focus to do a debate right now.
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@bsh1
I think you made the right decision. Although, i was thinking to myself what if a user i am friends with gets banned... i doubt anyone i am close with would get banned in the first place, but i was thinking if it does happen... i would want to know why. Although an open list i don't think would be appropriate... What if i ask why a user i am friends with got banned through PM to put my mind at ease? I imagine a users friend would get mad and start a bunch of drama in threads by speculating. The only problem i see with that is people pretending like they were friends to know why and talk smack when they find out. So... i don't know.
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@EtrnlVw
I'm not trying to be divisive. I acknowledge there is evidence that a veggie diet is good for you. But there is also evidence for "some" people it isn't very good (especially if it's only fruits). That's all i'm saying. Everyone wish's it was black and white so they can easily find a good diet. But that isn't how it usually goes down. Things that work for some don't for others unfortunately.
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@Aporia
I had to spend some time to find a video with his voice but i found waaaaa
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@EtrnlVw
Every body reacts differently to different diets. You can't just say fruits are the sure way 100% route to good health. It has been shown, bc it was studied, that a vegetarian diet is beneficial and can even reverse some ailments. That is bc it was studied. People on diets such as the keto diet are reporting back with success stories they didn't get from any other diet. But these diets are new and haven't been studied as long as vegetarian diets. What i do know however is eating only fruits is not healthy. But i also do know that a vegetarian diet is 100% better than the standard American diet. Next to the other ones, no one knows. There is just anecdotal evidence... and, from this evidence people report the most vitality they've ever felt from things like the carnivore diet... look up Jordan Petterson and his daughter. Nothing else worked for them... But, it is speculated that they might have leaky gut syndrome or something that doesn't go well with anything else and works perfect with meat. Through research, i decided to not try it bc it didn't sound sustainable for my body. But that proves every body is different and you can't just say eat fruit or a veggie diet and you'll be fine. Some will react horribly to that diet. The best diet is one you can sustain in the long term while also allowing you to easily have a caloric deficit when you need to. My body reacts best to a nutrivore diet with a once a week cheat day. That is the only diet i have been able to sustain and experts say that is the most important.
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@Aporia
What is it about Waluigi you find most appealing/attractive?
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@Greyparrot
Looks like i agree with Mr. Peterson.
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@secularmerlin
Oh wow, no i've never heard about that but it makes sense. When i was a kid i would always favor the winning team, etc. I didn't get the idea of going for the underdog until i was taught that. Maybe a lack of empathy as a little kid is the cause of it. You know they say that kids are really solipsistic. Nothing else exists but them and everything is for them. Kids are interesting in general to me. Their imaginations are really something else.
I'm sure if you are finding people that won't even consider the idea, they are likely very religious. I've recently been trying to see the depths of ignorance that comes from religion and i am actually shocked how many "dumb" people there are in this world. There are youtube videos made to show street magicians are possessed by the devil/demons. They say these tricks are only possible through demonic possession. It blows my mind how many people comment stuff like "i knew it" "it's obvious it's demons" etc. I am at a lose for words at how many people there are. I thought the like ratio would be low but it's like 20k like to 2.2k dislikes. Just wtf kind of world do we live in? You can literally look up Youtube videos that show how some of these tricks are done... but even if there wasn't ... "Demonic possession" ... people are freaking gullible and dumb, i'm flabbergasted. In that regard, i question if they have freewill too. They seem programmed by anything they hear. The thing you said about kids... there are adults that are just the same!
Here is a cool thing i am thinking of. Maybe it's bc there are multiple Solipsistic entities in this world or gods. That it is so hard to determine and prove bc only these gods have freewill. So maybe if we can question it we are among the gods manifested here and everyone else is just created people for our experience. So we just might be the gods. Too much? Lol
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@secularmerlin
Lol, yeah i wouldn't smack a kid for no reason. But that reminds me off a funny / intense moment i had once in college. We went with a frat (i wasn't in the frat or any just knew people) to mexico to go to a club. We pre-gamed so we were kinda tipsy when we got there. But the bus driver accidentally took us to the wrong club. This club was still kinda cool so we drank there but i quickly noticed a group of guys in suits sitting above us. There were multiple levels... kinda cool looking and they were at the top. A random guy came up to me and a friend and asked us if we were willing to sell meth for them. I knew something is off and they're probably a gang/mafia bc i saw the guy go up and report back. So i went to gather my friends and leave but one of my friends was passed out. Right when i went to him, a few guys in suits came up to me and said, "i don't like him" ... i asked why, they said "get him the F-out of there." They looked like they were about to get aggressive so i turned around and slapped my friend as hard as i could in the face. The guys cracked up. I did that bc the first thing i thought is who can't laugh from a spontaneous smack in the face. Thankfully it worked and i'm alive lol.
I went golfing today with my uncle. He's not only really smart but also a very good neurologist. He gave me a bit to think about in regards to freewill and the brain. That is where i learned the identity stuff and how the brain makes choices before you are even aware it did. But he also agreed it really comes down to how you define certain things like self, identity, me, you, and all that. Still though.. at face value, it looks like we have it. Digging deep, i guess one could make an argument "i" don't even exist... So how can i make choices if there is no "me."
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@secularmerlin
It's doesn't take severe brain damage all the time but i agree it isn't easy to change preferences. It can however happen with time. Like i use to hate eggplant and now i like it. I thought sushi is gross, and now it is one of my favorite foods. So, things can change... sometimes quickly like the sushi thing for me... but, i would agree i can't currently dislike something and easily make myself like it.
This whole free will thing is hard to disprove or even convince me off it at face value. I think that's why you aren't convincing me bc we are looking at it without any philosophical inquiry or digging deep into the brains functions. For instance, you can convince me that it is known that my brain sometimes makes a decision before i am even aware of that decision. Than we can get into is there an "I" or "me" to even make these decisions since i am a different person every minute.
At face value however... i don't think you can say there is no freewill or choice. It will always "appear" that there is. We would need to dig into brain function and identity philosophy and stuff to then start questioning is it even me making these choices, etc.
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When it comes to sex... i can. There are certain things i wouldn't do most the time. I guess that doesn't mean at a drop of a hat though... so, i agree it doesn't happen easily. Certain things are set like my sexual orientation. Certain things just change like my preferences. The things that don't change are hard / impossible to change.You can change your mind at the drop of a hat about your likes and dislikes? Prove it. Briefly change your sexual orientation and decide to hate coffee. I'll just give you a minute... take your time... did it work? No? Harder than it sounds isn't it?
Ok now let's assume that you do something for literally no reason. Not even just to prove to me that you can. In that case you haven't really made a descision at all you have simply engaged in random behavior. A random event is not an indication of freewill any more than following the dictates of cause and effect is.
Let's see... i randomly yell. I don't see how that isn't freewill that i can randomly yell... or even do something for no reason like slap a kid in the head or something. Isn't it me making a final choice to do so? Even if i knew the kid could hit me back?
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@secularmerlin
But it is my choices. I have preferences. There are things that i like and don't like. And even then, there could be reasons in the moment i just throw them all out and say "F-it" ... All of that sounds like i am free to make the final choice. I understand what you mean that certain things are out of my hand, but i am the one that gets to define the moment... and at any time i can change my mind in regards to what i like and don't.
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@secularmerlin
Let's examine the pleasure angle shall we. What are some reason la you might "choose" not to do something that brings you pleasure. Let's take sex, by all accounts a pretty serious motivator. Let's say a person you find attractive has made it very clear that they reciprocate. Now ordinarily that would equal a night in a motel you wouldn't tell your nanna about but let's say you don't go through with it. Why wouldn't You? What reason do you have to say no? Sure you could say no but why would you?
Someone i find attractive and down... i highly doubt i would ever say no. Some cases i might, if she smells, if she has a crappy attitude, if i knew she has a STD that a condom can't protect against, if she looked intoxicated and i wasn't, if she was a friend's ex. But those cases above are something i most the time would say no to... It depends on how i'm feeling in the moment.
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@secularmerlin
At the very least your "choices" are determined by a mixture of your preferences (which are not under your control) and your circumstances (which are not under your control) by your definition it would seem that freewill does not exist. All things being equal a coffee drinker drinks coffee, but they didn't decide to like coffee it just brings them pleasure. Of course if it's too hot outside they might go for a soda or an iced tea but they didn't decide what the weather would be like either. It follows therefore that the coffee drinker has no control over what beverage they "choose".
This was a good analogy... now i'm starting to see where you are coming from. In regards to my definition, it is important that the final choice is my decision. I said that things can influence it or force it, but the final decision is mine. For instance, i can drink a hot cup of coffee in hot weather if i wanted to... and, sometimes i do bc i actually enjoy the taste of coffee a lot. It might even make me uncomfortable or make me sweat, but it is my choice to make myself uncomfortable. The final decision is mine even if the weather is forcing me to do otherwise. The government could even make it illegal with a life sentence to drink coffee. But it is my choice to take the risk and drink coffee. If a guy has a gun to my head and says i can't drink coffee or he'll shot... i can decide to die and take a sip. Nothing can take this away from me. Unless of course i'm hanging off a building and can't use my hands to grab a cup, or... if the world stops making coffee. Then my choice is gone... but, i can still pursue to make my own. I can spend all my life to figure out how to make a cup of coffee if i wanted to. The only way i could never is if both my hands are cut off and the world stops making coffee and every human being is dead. That is the only way i can't have coffee anymore... but even then, i won't forget how much i like coffee. So i guess the world would have to die, my hands be cut off, and have severe brain damage... then, i may never think of coffee again. But in that situation it would be obvious what i had as choices were taken away. I had choices or freewill before that. But as the only human being left with brain damage... i could even decide to kill myself... again, having freewill to make the final decision.
The "pleasure" angle is interesting. But i do things that please me, and i don't do some things that please me. I always make the final choice. If nothing gave me pleasure, food or drink. I would have to make the final choice to drink and eat or die. I very well could choose death.
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@secularmerlin
I agree there is no "physical" evidence. But i wouldn't agree with you per se that there is no anecdotal evidence. I say "per se" bc even the anecdotal evidence might be physical therefore, making no evidence. But for this conversation i will just go with there is no evidence that there is anything beyond the physical. But if there is only the physical... then, i am actually more sure that i am the one making the choices in my life. What / who else would it be?There is no physical evidence to suggest that there is anything beyond the physical. If you cannot examine this line of reasoning with me you cannot claim you are making choices governing your beliefs and if you can you may be forced to face the crushing reality of undeniable cause and effect from which there is no escape.
definition of both conciousness and freewill.
This is most def. hard. I would define consciousness as having the ability to think, imagine, sentience, self aware / awareness, being aware of the world. Of course there are many levels of consciousness. Some may have more of one thing or less or almost none. But complete void of all of the above would be unconsciousness. Freewill would be being able to make choices without anything controlling those choices. Of course, things can influence my choices or even force them, but in the end of the day, i choose how to proceed. I'll stay at those definitions for now. I may amend them.
(too dramatic?)
No. I thought you were making fun of me for a second though lol.
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@secularmerlin
Now i want you to convince me that this isn't my choice. Don't end it like that lol.
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@secularmerlin
But wait... i still see it as a choice not to look into it though lol. Bc i know i can.
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@secularmerlin
Yep. I'll be willfully ignorant when it comes to questioning reality. I have no problem with that.
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@secularmerlin
I see, that's why i'm not getting you. I don't think like that when it comes to reality... i'm very much a here and now type of person. I'm making choices, i'm free to make these choices... and that's all i care about. I will be too far gone if i start looking deep into these issues. I mean, one of my spiritual beliefs implicates that i am the video game character in this video game... and my true self is either incorporeal or somewhere else playing me while i am here. Therefore, yeah... these really aren't my choices and i don't have free will if we go the route of this game already having a beginning and end. So, i'm very much an atheist when it comes to philosophical thinking of reality. I take it at face value. It seems to me i am making choices, it seems to me i have free will... why question it? The only place that will end me up is being skeptical of reality itself... and, i don't want that to happen. I very much disconnect my spiritual beliefs when it comes to the here and now. Here and now... i'm human, i'm present, i'm alive... i have a path till death. Whatever it takes... i want my movie to be awesome... so that's what i do.
Therefore, i don't think that i am not making choices or that i don't have free will. I won't question that. If i did... i would have to stop believing that i can conquer my reality and that's up to me to do. I'm the driver. So... i stay away from questioning reality and stick to the belief my choices and free will can get me anywhere if i do it right.
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@secularmerlin
Then you are a very rare case but you still are unable to believe in anything you think is definitely false. Believing in everything does not require a choice and so unless I misunderstand you you still did not choose your beliefs. In fact let's go a step farther. You believe that it is more probable that anything is possible than that nothing exists. You did not choose to believe that it is just what you consider to be more likely true than the alternatives. If you didn't think it was true you would not believe it. Honestly I'm not sure that anyone makes any choices at all but that is a seperate discussion.
You are being a philosopher stone over here lol. I think you are thinking too much into it. Based off observation, experience, and a little thinking on my part i find one to be more likely than the other. That could change at any time... so, if all the sudden there is all of the above against my beliefs i have no problem in switching the likelihoods around. I very well could be a rare case bc i really haven't met too many people like me. I mean, people can concede they may be wrong... but, i have extensively been looking into spiritual platforms. Usually people that do that will end up with an ironclad this or that... especially if they've spent so much time on it. But i am sorta ambivalent. The science seems to go towards nothing and not, the philosophy tends to go towards something and not. Throw in i have had unexplained experiences... i'm a very confused skeptic/spiritualist.
In any case, i still don't understand what you mean by things aren't a choice. Yes... i don't think anyone can believe in something that is def. false. I will never believe 2+2 = 5. That to me sounds like a choice based off logic and observation. I'm doing the same thing with my beliefs. I just see things add up to give a little more likelihood to something other than nothing being the case. I have a couple platforms i have decided that explain this nothing is something best. That's all choice. Is this no choice thing you are saying similar to people that say free will isn't a thing?
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@secularmerlin
I don't get it bc i do also believe nothing could be true. It's just something that doesn't take much thought. If nothing is true than it's nothing. There really is no creativity or imagination for the matter. It's just nothing. So it doesn't take much thought. I acknowledge it... and then move on to things that could be true... and weigh them accordingly. In the end, i am choosing to go with a belief that i find more likely... this is all choice. I don't get if you are using word-play to assert it isn't a choice, if you are, i don't get it yet. I'm not trying to be argumentative... i have no problem in saying it's not a choice, i'm not understanding what you mean though bc it all seems like a choice.
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@secularmerlin
Not necessarily. When i say i believe them... i believe it could be true more than not. Like 70/30% sure/unsure. I def. think anything is possible, and nothing being one of those choices is just one element. However, when it comes to my belief... or i shouldn't say belief per se... what i would label as "paradise" or an afterlife i suspect... i'm a bit optimistic. Bc there is more than one platform that leads to what i would label as this paradise. My source hypothesis, a simulation theory, an evolving incorporeal consciousness, a Boltzman brain, Solipsism even. All of these have similar implications that could lead to a 'paradise' as i define it. i think you know what i mean by paradise, that's why i quote it... bc i don't mean the Christian paradise.
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@Imabench
Ok thats fair, and I probably did go over the top on describing the overall user in the Religion forum. At the same time, if you are not one of the aforementioned lunatics who are more inclined to participate in cyber-preaching and cyber-crusading than having a thoughtful discussion, it would still be for the best to avoid the forum as much as possible given the number of actual lunatics who populate the region.
I understand your concerns. I guess it just comes down to personality. We are a little different. On one end, i know the users i can have a good conversation with so i don't run into your concerns on that end... and, second, i enjoy trolling every once and awhile and the people you mention are the most fun to troll. In that i think we are just different if you don't enjoy the same things i do. In large, i don't think you said anything too off... other than, i really think you can find these problem users in any of the forums. I haven't been paying attention if they are more prevalent in the religion forum... you may be right. I don't really pay attention to that personally.
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@linate
I think it would be able to as to in one of my beliefs at least. An overview of this belief is that all of reality/existence is the manifestation of an infinite consciousness/intelligence ("source"). Pantheism would be an appropriate comparison. However, saying infinite needs a little clarification. Let's say you couldn't die... would your consciousness be infinite? Or what it be limited to your consciousness / imaginations' end? That is what i believe this source is... an undying consciousness. I don't think it has any single identity however. Instead of being a "who" it's an "it." Everything has happened and is known within this source... it has infinite intelligence.
If this is the kind of entity we are talking about than it limits itself all the time for the players and events that it already knows can manifest and exist. Think about an infinite stretch of sand. For there to be a sandcastle one would have to make it / the source of the sand manifests it in order for it to be physically existent. However, even if it is not created in any way... it still exists within the sand. Everything exists in the sand... it just needs to be made to be actualized. I believe that this is the same with this source. All these events, you and everything already exists within this source. And what this source is doing is manifesting these events for them to be actualized and experience. Going from incorporeal to corporeal to have a limited time before the sandcastle collapses and becomes the infinite stretch of sand again.
In this specific scenario, this unlimited source is limiting itself all the time. Bc as an unlimited source it is everything. Therefore, all stories and events are known simultaneously. For these events and stories to actually play their role they need to be individualized and manifest into the physical for a limited time to be actualized and experience.
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@secularmerlin
You must believe what you think is true. I defy you to believe something which you believe to be false. If this proves impossible, as I suspect you will, then you must concede that whether we must believe the actual truth or not we have no choice but to believe what we consider truth and in that case beliefs are not a choice but rather a product of our perceptions which we also do not choose.
The way that i think i do believe certain things could be true that i find to be less likely... or more so false. Such as a simulation theory, deism, or even a pagan belief of multiple gods. I think these could also be the case just less likely to the one i would rather be right. So yeah, to some degree it is my perception that my favorite could be true. However, i've believed this one ever since i can remember. Before learning about religion or anything about spirituality. I've just decided that if anything is true it is what i naturally thought to be true when i was 3 or 4. So, i've personally chosen to go with that and justify what i intuitively knew as a kid with no knowledge of spirituality. I don't see how that isn't a choice.
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@secularmerlin
Why not? Anything could be possible. Why not believe in whatever you want?
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@secularmerlin
You said superman's powers and one of those is immortality, or cat least functional immorality, you don't get to pick and choose here either you have the powers of the man of steel or you don't. I'm just pointing out the practical flaws and downsides. Like don't shoot the messenger yeah.
Fine i'll give you that. Let me just rephrase this then. I would be fine with any power except for true immortality. "True" as in can never die. Something like a Vampire's immortality i'd be fine with. Any of my favorite powers, as long as i could die. That's the deal. With that, i'll just say, with someone like me you can never convince a reality with "magic" wouldn't be awesome. That's why i choose to have a belief that can make that possible, and why one of my main caveats is that you don't have to come with me. We are literally talking about what i would define as paradise, so i don't think you can convince me otherwise on this one.
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@Goldtop
Why do you want me to offer you something... are you in need?
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@secularmerlin
if you couldand did wouldn't it tear your heart out if you found out later that someone you care about was hurt or killed while you weren't paying attention?
I'm pretty sure he can control it. Let's go off movie cannon bc i am not thinking of the original cannon. Just like life... it would piss me off, but i would just have to deal with it.
So you would be a tyrant?
No. But i would definitely be more powerful than others and they'd know it. If there is 100's of people outside my door i would make clear i don't like that. I'd be nice about it... but, if they don't listen then yeah... i'd be a tyrant at that point.
For that you would have to die (according to your currently held beliefs) and superman does not seem able to do that (at least not permanently).
I would only do it if i could die so i would make sure there is an off switch before picking powers. Plus, the cannon just isn't dead with superman... who knows if the writer one day has him die.. What happened is he lived in the sun for millions of years and came out as superman prime... basically god like when he came out. I don't remember if they ever killed him. But... in any case, whatever life i pick powers in i would always make sure there is a way i could die.
Let's hope not because you would know everything anyone ever said about you in exquisite detail.
I would most def. have fun with that.
That is part of the problem. As a near immortal there would be no end to your mourning.
I would never want any reality in which i am immortal in... that is what scares me in regards to heaven. Even if things are "paradise" i would eventually find it to be hell if i knew i would never die to hopefully reset and experience something new. So if i live a life having powers like superman, i would make sure at some point i could die. Even if in the next life i am an ordinary human being. Actually, i would likely yearn for it eventually. Which is why i think humanity is brilliant. Bc any person that lives eons with powers would eventually yearn for simple mortality.
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@Goldtop
So what i am getting i might have religious parts and not have religious parts. Then, i wouldn't say i am religious bc i believe any of those parts are possible and maybe only one is and the other isn't. I don't know. My spiritual beliefs when i was young were very different than the religion's i learned about... so, even if i would hear it subconsciously, i had no idea what they were talking... i envisioned it before i learned anything that would direct my visions. If you have a problem with agnostics i can't do anything for you. If you have a problem with metaphysics, i can't do anything for you. I can say with certainty that you have no idea either however.
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@secularmerlin
All of it sounds like something i can handle. I wouldn't say pleasant to some parts, but sounds pleasant none the less... it sounds just like life to me.
To be a constant outsider even when surrounded by others?
I don't care what others think of me. I'm confident i will be able to find people i can love and likely be loved back... that's all that matters to me.
To be constantly aware of the pain of humanity because of your super senses?
I can control when i hear it so it wouldn't be constantly. But when i do decide to listen in... i will try to help as many as i can and feel bad i couldn't help more. Then get on with my life. I'm not going to say i don't care in this situation, but it wouldn't effect me. I don't even know if i would use my powers to help people. If i did, it wouldn't be something i do all the time. I'd fix certain iniquities, and let others experience as what they would have had to without me.
To be forever both alone and never have any privacy?
I wouldn't be completely alone which would be frightening... but the thought of being alone in life doesn't scare me. I'm really good at talking to people... even if it is off random whim. Never have privacy doesn't bother me either... bc i can fly to space and no one else can. And here... if people won't leave me alone when i want to be left alone... fear is a motivator i can utilize easy.
To watch everyone you know grow old and die while you remain?
I have to experience this anyways. I'll just experience it more. It would be sad but i can handle it. All i can hope for is that there is some peace for them and that one day we might meet again.
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@Goldtop
Just like every other believer
Fine i'll give you that. But unlike most other believers i am agnostic towards my beliefs.
Nope, you can believe all by yourself and be religious.
So if i think of myself as a super-human entity manifested into a mortal body... i'm religious? Bc i don't think i control anything... even in my spirit. I thought religious means you believe in a god / gods that have a controlling effect on our world. I believe i am a divine spirit... that was manifested from an eternal mind. This mind is everything but doesn't control anything... i do. Not preaching, just laying it out so you can tell me if this qualifies. And btw, this is just one of my beliefs but it's my favorite so let's go with this one.
That's where your beliefs originated.
Actually you're wrong here. It didn't originate from any other belief. As far as i can remember, i've been fascinated with the supernatural. And i specifically remember the first time i heard about god i thought to myself "i knew i'm right." In that there is a supernatural reality. From there of course i learned what others thought it is, but as soon as i was old enough to call bs i started trying to define what i thought before i learned about religion and have been ever since.
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@secularmerlin
Okay. Let's start with a tough one: Superman's power.
Edit: Tough as in him being tough not for you to tell me why it isn't good lol.
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@secularmerlin
I wouldn't say it is an absolute curse. It wouldn't likely be a blessing either. It would be a struggle... just like this life, that you would have to overcome. I think you are going a little too far thinking its only downsides, but who am i to say... it very well could be hell to you just like an idea of the Christian heaven is a hell to me. I guess the question is would you even ever want to experience such a reality where these things are real which seems like you wouldn't. Your take is just interesting to me bc if i apply my belief to it... your view on this makes this world make a little more sense to me.
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@secularmerlin
Bc you would have lived this life how you want to until the end. It's a new start. You wouldn't want to experience a reality where these things are real?
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@secularmerlin
In this scenario would you take one: When you are finished with this life and die... some entity appears to you and says in your next life you can have one of these stones. Would you go through a new experience getting to have one of these stones?
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@Goldtop
You didn't tell me how. How do you define being religious? I don't get it since my belief is exclusive to only myself. I've never to this day heard anyone else explain it as i do. Just close ones here and there. So i don't get how i am religious when religion presupposes a group of people believing in the same. It's down to how you define it. I would say i am agnostic spiritual if i had to. I am actually quite atheistic towards organized religion. At least, i don't think you are talking about organized religion... if you are, i would say you are dead wrong. With that, i don't know how you define being religious in general. If it means having a spiritual belief even if i am slightly agnostic towards it... i guess i am. But that isn't what i am familiar with as to the meaning.
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@secularmerlin
I don't know. When i use to do drugs i felt pretty darn good. And if they could last without detriment... i'd probably take them all the time even though i knew it is just a pill. Same could be said for anti-depressants and the like if they are working. It's artificial, but if it works... you wouldn't likely care and just enjoy what you have. But we will never really know since this is a hypothetical. How it would play out in the long term is beyond me since we don't have anything that is capable of giving us this kind of long term happiness. These powers are far beyond anything we could experience, for now.
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@secularmerlin
Normally i would say true... happiness is a state of mind.
But with that said, i'm going to play devils advocate. Let's say i get the reality stone. I can easily make a reality in which i have no mental illness and add in extra feel good chemicals, have everything else i need, and powers to top it off. So... i don't know. These would be pretty insane powers to have.
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@Goldtop
Sure you are, deeply.
Explain how? I've never heard of a religion that says the things i suspect to be true... only in philosophy.
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@Imabench
I actually agree with mostly everything you said. However, there are some users that i didn't see in the philosophy forum which is why i would go to the religion forum to talk to them. The people that incessantly preach get on my nerves too. However, even i may come off that way bc at some point or another i have to put my foot down in what i believe. For me it's hard bc the best way to describe myself would be agnostic atheist spiritual. I do have spiritual belief i feel are most likely, but in the end of the day, i don't know. Sometimes i put my foot down and act like i am right bc i have to towards some people, but if it's an atheist... i almost always concede that i may be wrong. It's the religious and other beliefs i'm a little more firm and preachy towards. So... i can understand how it happens. But.. i don't think i have talked to anyone else, very few bc i'm sure there is a user here and there, that is able to concede they may be wrong. That is annoying and likely more common in the philosophy forum. I should go to that one more often than i do. Just make sure when you are attacking an entire forum to be a little more specific so it doesn't come across as there are no good people... in which case i would disagree. With that said, i understand your concerns in regards to the religion forum. We're not all lunatics and some can be very amicable.
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@Imabench
Philosophy and science would certainly be a good start
I tend to only visit those forums to read others, for i'm not qualified enough to comment most the time.
I understand in regards to the people you are talking about... i skip over them too. Only reply to put them in their place sometimes for fun, bc they need it. But... every once and awhile there is a thoughtful and learning thread or user. If you don't spend time and know who those users are... you won't know. But there are people that will challenge your spiritual worldview whatever it is.. and that is the point. To learn through discussion. You can achieve that if you know who to speak to.
I won't hold my breath.... A broken clock is right twice a day, but that is still about two times greater than the threads that show up in the religion forum
By all means don't visit it if you don't like the topic... but going as far as calling those that do a lunatic directly applies to me. I will defend myself in that situation like i have. Maybe if you would have been more specific, i wouldn't have thought you directed it at me and other users that aren't lunatics and just enjoy the subject.
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@Mopac
We went through this and didn't reach any conclusion. I believe "god" is everything. It isn't a "who" it's everything. Pantheism would describe this at surface level and helps me illustrate what i mean but i have added extras to the idea as i learned. It manifested in one of two ways. It evolved into what it is, or it has always been.. i don't really care bc all i care about are the implications and how it affects me. I'm selfish that way, whatever. But the implications would be that i am also god, so are you. We are all part of this 'infinite' intelligence. When you die... you become it. Therefore, death isn't the afterlife, this is the afterlife for you will never "just" stay as god. Having a human experiences is the manifestation of what this god already knows. To live is the only way to truly experience what this source consciousness already knows. For your dreams to be real, they would need to manifest in life. Hence, this life is paradise; or hell... it is the afterlife. And when we die... we will manifest into another experience. You are the driver of your own experiences. No one else.
If you believe this, i'm with you. If you don't, i will think you are wrong until you can prove me wrong. Why would anything you believe apply to me? That is the question bc i think whatever you believe applies only to you when it comes to death.
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@RationalMadman
Fiora getting gang-banged by 'other gods' would mean she isn't God.
Okay... fingering herself for eternity. I don't care. I'll probably hit it when i die.
You don't 'run an area' kid
That kind of thinking is what i hope for... blind aggression and narcissism thinking it is you that owns anything. Easy peazy at that point.
desert island scenario
A desert island scenario calls for radically different manipulation of the moment. The tactics wouldn't be the same as a purge scenario. That would call for the seduction of making the others feel more powerful than me, and making them believe i am on their side and useful at the same time. Make them fight each other first... i'm patient.
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@RationalMadman
Sam Harris is a pseudo-intellectual tyrant who wants to ban Trump from Twitter as in legally blackmail Twitter to ban him from it.
Like i said... it's not about you.
JP is a real G who I like a lot and never once said you had to be a Christian even though he is, he only preaches science with regards to psychology. psychiatry and sociology.
For someone you like you know very little of his beliefs. Admittedly, everyone sorta is in the same boat since he is never direct about his spiritual beliefs. The closest he got is with Sam Harris in which he explained that he thinks that all religion is trying to point towards a metaphysical realm. He doesn't specify what he means by metaphysical. He uses the Bibles stories as metaphors and allegory towards current day events... the best one could say is that he is agnostic. He definitely is not Christian in the common way. But hey... you just admitted one of these intellectuals isn't what you said. How about that.
You are unworthy of meeting Fiora
Fiora could be getting gang banged by the other gods for all i care.
You keep going around thinking you are going to be a vigilante in the Purge
"Thinking?" You wouldn't know what hit you. An assassin always has the home court advantage. A bunch of 60 iq thugs wouldn't stand a chance. If their leader is smart.. it might throw a wrench in it a bit, but still... you come into an area i've set up as a trap... you die. You wouldn't even see me until you are hover above your body.
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