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@mustardness
OutP, this is the crux of our disagreement from last year, as best as I recall . You know what 1, 2 and 3 mean in my cosmic outline/list yet you refuse to accept #2.
It's not that i don't agree necessarily, i think it is more that i am not getting it. I actually think we may agree. Ultimately, i am trying to make sense of it in regards to my belief. Parts that we do agree is that there is an infinite amount of space. I can also agree that certain space is occupied and certain space is not occupied. But i need to get what you mean by non-occupied bc i also believe that there is an infinite intelligence. This infinite intelligence is everything in my belief... it is all of occupied space and accordingly must be all of non-occupied space. That is why i am trying to understand non-occupied to see how that is possible in such a platform. This infinite intelligence doesn't take up space either it's incorporeal... so it can be non-occupied. But there has to be some source for it to be able to be a part of non-occupied even if that source is energy or some form of energy we don't know about. If there is space that is only dark energy lets say for example... i would call that non-occupied space.
Finite = inherent wholeness ergo wholistic integrity. Do understand that?Infinite = lack of wholeness, ergo lack of wholistic integrity. Do you understand that?
What do you mean by wholistic integrity? Maybe that will clear things up for me a little more too.
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@mustardness
The space between celestial objects based on fermionic matter ex planets, suns, galaxys seemingly have empty { non-occupied space } between them, yet we know that space is filled { occupied space } with EMRadiation, neutrinos, virutal particles etc. Am I getting to deep for you? No? Then you progress to the next level.
This is where you lost me a little, i get everything else. Just trying to figure out non-occupied space. I can understand non-occupied space being the space bw occupied space, that makes perfect sense. What i am asking is if non-occupied space has no virtual particles, etc. Or, does it still count as non-occupied space even if there are things like particles and energy within it? I would agree on the definition that contains certain things... i just don't believe there is literally "empty space" anywhere... and or i don't believe in the concept of "nothingness."
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@mustardness
Is there such thing as truly non-occupied space? If so, what is it? Just empty space?
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@bsh1
Okay, i trust you will be much more responsible with moderation efforts from what i see... I just hope there will be some more discretion in bans. I wont talk about the specific person i am thinking of that was most recent... but a simple warning would have sufficed for this person. A ban was too extreme, temp or perm. I hope the user comes back bc he is truly one person i don't agree with but like to read his posts for the smiles.
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I understand Vegabounds punishment. But i hope willows was warned before a "ban" ... His style was to post a lot of questions. A ban is excessive and shouldn't be celebrated even if you don't agree with the guy.
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@Vaarka
I hope this site doesn't start to feel like a safe space. I don't come on the internet to be protected. I am already concerned of some bans i have seen.
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@janesix
I believe the world has been conditioned to be slaves. I believe the powerful lie to us everyday bc they do not want to give up their power. They are addicted to it, and humanity holds their heads down believing in their lies. Life and success is a pyramid scheme. Some tell you hard work will get you there, some tell you they will help you get there through aid... both are lying. It's a pyramid scheme and the pyramid is never upside down. If it was, the powerful would diminish their power. So we get lied to and conditioned to give up our power to the powerful. The world needs an awakening... to realize these lies. Until then they are willing slaves. There is two ways to get power. One way is self employment or becoming someone that gives back to society and is a value to society. Such as musicians, artists, business owners, etc. The other way is by manipulating the system. The second why is less moral bc it requires manipulating people and systems. Either way, those are your only two ways to not be a slave other than moving to the forest and living on your own. With that said, i give humanity a chance every time. I really love people... but, if i hate you it's usually very passionately. I just feel bad that humanity cannot see they can be a lot more powerful than they are. I wish people weren't so complacent sometimes and easily manipulated.What is your world-view?
How did the universe come into existence?
There are some creative beliefs, but no one knows for sure. I personally believe, or like the most, there are multiple universes and this is just one in many. There was something creative i also heard that we are the result of a dying star in another universe and are within the black hole it created. Makes sense... death of star = big bang. Inflation and expansion of our universe = the black hole's gravity.
Is there any purpose to existence?
Sure... to live and experience. Specific purpose is whatever you give to life.
Why do you believe what you believe?
When it comes to humanity and our reality stuff, bc it's what i see. When it comes to metaphysical beliefs... i believe in one's that have the most likely chance of being what's going on.
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@janesix
Exactly. It is real right now, so why not call it real. We have direct proof that we exist and are experiencing in a physical vessel. If anything, it's death that will be an illusion.
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@Vaarka
I absolutely agree with you. I do not like that random threads where someone feels like calling others an idiot should be a warning or anything. It is what happens after that should matter. If it goes from that to "i am going to doxx you" or any threats that are violent and destructive in nature... then the person should have consequences. Mere insults should not be something that needs to be warned. People have heated exchanges and could be having a bad day and feel like calling me a bigot... they should be able to and i am capable enough to respond in kind. It's what comes after that, the escalation of threats and insults that should matter.
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@janesix
I've never heard of "maya" before. I found: "the supernatural power wielded by gods and demons to produce illusions." If by that you mean an illusion made by a god... that would be closer than simulation i would say, but probably not exactly that either. I don't think this is an illusion. I believe that there is an infinite source of intelligence and that is where we come from. This source of intelligence has no shape or form and is everything. Within this we have individualized, so that is what i mean by our higher self. Our higher power selves are also without shape and form. In this state i believe we have a personal omniscience. We will know every reality we've lived in and every story we've played out all at once. So from that state we will manifest into another "afterlife" ... afterlife to me is here living now. Therefore, we go from an infinite incorporeal self to a physical self to experience. Therefore, i believe all of this is real. I don't think it is an illusion. But it very well can be... i don't know if i am right either and the above can play out differently making this an illusion.
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@janesix
A simulation is a very human concept. I doubt it is anything like what humanity does. However, if we are a manifestation out of an incorporeal source of intelligence... it is simulation like, but not exactly. Simulation supposes computers... i doubt a human invention that is next to nothing compared to existence is the means of our manifestation.
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I look at you with an eerie distaste,
some people are just born with malice in their veins.
My eye’s look upon you piercing through your layers,
Like the eyes of a kid with a fever of hundred and ten.
My blood travels away, from my heart, from my body, from my soul,
Shining black on the moonlit snow.
It’s my soul that remains,
Traveling through the darkened air.
Forever reminding you,
the witching hour I call home,
When your eyes slowly shut, absent
In the safeness you call home.
The shadow you fear looking through your window screens,
Is me with a smile only seen,
In your nightmare every night you sleep.
keep it dark, as these witch spirits are me, as i light one candle flame, hades around me,for now is the hour, i shut your eyes and to your nightmares i say...i've arrived. Flesh is me, blood my fuel to breath, as I take the stars from your eyes, I whisper one last eulogy. I take your wings, lay you to sleep, now my dear, descend to me.
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@secularmerlin
How have you determined that this is the case?
Lol... i think he's trolling.
I also believe they are both. With that said, as soon as this baby is old enough to think... i believe they become spiritual. Believing in something beyond this reality i think is the default position. We either grow out of it or become more inquisitive and curious about it as we grow.
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@sadolite
I don't know... i don't like any parties at the moment. This entire world is a pyramid scheme and all i see is powerful people trying to sustain that. You wouldn't feed me grapes if i asked you bc we are equal. If i gave you a thousand bucks however, you may do it... powerful people are addicted to that. Until there is some kind of huge awakening... i don't think i will ever be for these politician sobs.
A vast majority of people are brainwashed to accept this pyramid scheme. If i vote Republican they promise me hard work will get me to the top of the pyramid, bs. If i vote democrat, they promise they will have government take care of me, bs. So... what can i really do? The only person i can trust is myself and those around me i trust. I guess i would vote for the politicians that throw a wrench in the system which in turn makes it easier for me to hack the system as i've been doing. That is one of the only ways to succeed in this world. Becoming a creative genius or manipulate the system. I'm good at manipulation so i'll go that route for now. Doesn't matter if they have an R or a D next to their name... help me manipulate the system and i'll vote for them.
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@janesix
It's hard to prove that they aren't mere coincidence. It very well could be. However, since i believe that there is an infinite intelligence and we are part of it... i would say synchronicity's happen bc we tap into that infinite intelligence. Think of an A.I. in the future so advanced that it could think of every possible chess move that there is. Furthermore, this A.I. knows every chess move against anyone you put it against. That still doesn't scratch the surface of an infinite intelligence ("source"). This source would not only know every possible chess move, it would know any possible in any world, it would know every chess move you and everyone could and will make, it knows everything. Therefore, the future doesn't have to play out in order for this source to know what will happen. You come from this source, therefore, if you can momentarily tap into it... you will also know what is about to happen. I believe your higher self is still in source state. Synchronicity's are just one way it guides you through this experience.
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@Castin
True. The many worlds hypothesis is a legitimate theory in physics.I'm actually not sure the human mind can truly imagine infinity.
My spiritual belief is basically in part a derivative of the many worlds hypothesis. The only thing i add to it is that intelligence/consciousness is also infinite. Two ways that could happen. It is either a manifestation of infinite reality and evolved from it... or, intelligence is everything. That everything came into existence when intelligence basically woke up. Either way leads to similar spiritual implications.
The human mind can't per se, by definition it shouldn't be able to... but, i think you can scratch the surface. I've had a realization three times i am infinite. One time it was with weed, one time it was with a hallucinogen called Salvia, and one time it was sober. In all of these experiences i felt like god basically. I was everything and infinite. And in all of them 1) i understood what it feels like to be infinite and 2) all i wanted to do is forget and be finite again. I found that being everything and infinite is actually pretty scary. You basically are not living. This is bc i knew why i was here, why i chose to be here, what will happen to me, and the end of my story. I knew all that at once... and, all i wanted was to forget and thankfully i did. The deeper ones happened under the influence. The sober time i just understood what it feels like to be infinite. Even then, i understood that this world is actually the afterlife, for to stay infinite isn't living.
So, there are ways to experience it or scratch the surface. People do it through meditation, deep spiritual thought/practice, and hallucinogens. I would recommend hallucinogens bc the other ways take a long time to get it, and sometimes you never can. Hallucinogens are a short cut. Either way it is pretty profound and life changing when you do experience it. Although it is scary being infinite, understanding that this life is your afterlife... makes this life more interesting imho.
Long vid.
Lol all his videos are long but he is an interesting character if you get into what he is saying.
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@Castin
Being a cynic is very justifiable in this human experience of ours. I most definitely am. Look at how our world is shaped. Legal slavery and people using their power to control others. I do give people the benefit of the doubt however. I believe there is more good than bad, but still... unconsciously we are still enslaving each other even if we have good hearts. It's a cynical world we live in.
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@ravensjt
Cool! Glad you liked it. The guy does get a lot of his experiences through using psychedelics, but i have no problem with that. He does explain how it isn't cheating in some of his other videos and i agree. Plus, i am very interested in how psychedelics or even most people with mental disorders come to this sort of belief. Infinite intelligence etc. I naturally came to this belief, but i feel like it is really rare, so finding someone like him talking about it is even more rare for me to hear. Check out some of his other videos. I would recommend the ones where he explains infinite intelligence / absolute infinity. They are also interesting. Oh p.s. how funny was his correlation of religious people and sex ;P they have faith that an orgasm is good lol.
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@Castin
I agree. It would also explain why there are so many various and different experiences. That is primarily the first step that made me think of a more social spiritual platform. Plus, i've had random experiences that just don't make sense if it is either god or the devil... why in the world would eternal beings care to spook me or show me anything for that matter. Most theists tell me it is the devil tricking me... really, i have the devil's audience. Well... lucky me. The lord of darkness spin's necklaces ;p
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@Castin
Watch this video if you want and have time. This guy is really good at explaining what i can't. He has a similar belief to mine. I add a bit to it, but it's basically the same idea of a lot of people that find this infinite intelligence thing to be plausible.
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@Castin
Yeah but science is still in its infancy. Another point is that science defines our reality... not any additional realities that might be. Although, there is math for it all which i find interesting. You just can't test a lot of what we know. Plus, i think spirituality is infinite. I think we come from an infinite platform. Therefore, i don't think science will ever be able to define it for we are finite beings trying to define an infinite reality. Can we ever? Who knows, but there is a chance we will never be able to. Just like a dog has it's limits... humans probably do to. However, if humans do come from an infinite intelligence... then interestingly, we should be able to imagine it. Which amazingly we can. We just can't define it perfectly in our limited bodies and mind.
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@Mopac
I define "the truth" differently however i can agree that atheism is a shortsighted conclusion to make about our reality and beyond. With that said, in part i blame it on organized religion. Atheist are so focused on proving what is clearly wrong wrong, that they fail to step back and think of a spiritual reality as something actually very logical. I think you are slightly religious, but don't think of it from your beliefs stand point. Think of how you feel towards a religion like wicca or maybe even Islam. You can clearly see that it is wrong. Atheist see that in every religion. And, from what i've noticed, they get stuck on the fact that if all this is wrong... then, everyone is wrong regarding anything having to do with spirituality. Bc you can clearly say Wicca is just man made mumbo jumbo... they have applied that thinking to every spiritual belief so i don't blame them for their position however shortsighted i think it is. Although, i, for the most part, have explained a belief such as mine and i get a concession of "maybe" a lot of the times. I find that to be interesting. Bc like i said above, we all know at some point this reality isn't it. It's the various ways of defining it that have muddied the water. I always say, there is only one picture that is true in a puzzle piece game. What we have done is open puzzle pieces from thousands of different pictures and are trying to put one picture together... it's a mess.
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@Castin
What if what everyone hears is there higher self? Wouldn't that make a lot more sense than a random caring about certain people's daily lives?
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@Stronn
I'm glad. It shows society as a whole is becoming wiser. It is harder to indoctrinate through fear. It is harder to lie about facts when one search will tell the truth. Plus, the more you get educated your critical thinking abilities improve and that make a difference when being lied to... you can tell lies from truth or at the very least, what doesn't logically make sense. Religion's history doesn't help either. A history of violence and blind obedience. I'm sure there is a lot more to it, but it all comes down to religion simply being false is catching up to it.
With all that said, i am quite spiritual. The "none' category also is too. It is composed of atheist, agnostic and other... most of the other being spiritual. This is a good thing, but can also be a bad thing. People might just jump to fringe beliefs to supplement not being able to think too spiritually. For instance, torats, wicca, astrology, etc. There is something within humanity that just knows somehow there is a spiritual reality. Everyone...even atheists at some point have had this feeling. I personally think there is something to that. That all the religion and philosophy we do is an attempt in defining what it can be. I think it is an attempt that will never truly be discovered, for my belief has taken me to the truth actually being something infinite. Therefore, we as finite beings will never truly be able to define the infinite. Who knows though, humanity is pretty amazing and the progress we make is mind blowing. There is no telling what we will discover. All i know is, looking at this life as my afterlife has made me appreciate it more. I believe we have an immortal self or "soul" however i do not think that is where we prefer to be. We prefer to be experiencing as finite beings... as evident by us being here now.
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@mustardness
Hey what's up Ebuc!
I forget what disagreements we spiritually have, if any, so i will redefine what i mean by the infinite source and see what you think. We are in agreement that there might be occupied and non-occupied space. I've told you i think that could be a possibility. However, i think i have also argued with you that there might not be any non-occupied space but i digress from that.
The infinite source, which i define as an intelligent agent, would be everything. It would be occupied and non-occupied space. It is a infinite cosmic intelligence. Well, this is one way of defining it at least. I have a second way of defining it which would be more correlative to your ideas that this infinite consciousness lives in one of the infinite occupied spaces. But... i like to think that the source is everything. There is no where it can't go, nothing it can't be... therefore, i think it is everything and everywhere.
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@Mopac
Witchcraft... Lmfao. Ignorance is bliss i guess.
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@Mopac
My religion is relationship with God. As everyone is wrong, how am I disagreeing with you on this point?
The way you define this god i am not agreeing with. The way you justify your belief over others i don't agree with. The way you justify your belief through the Bible i don't agree with. You aren't paying attention to how i am defining god, which btw is defining god by the way you talk about god... you just don't see how you aren't consistent. There is no heaven or hell... there is only one eternal consciousness that we "all" go to. Then we individualize...another note you haven't understood bc you say this:
You don't know my religion because you think you are God.
You aren't paying attention bc if you were, you should know i think being god would be hell. How in the world do you derive i am saying i am god? I am an individual immortal consciousness that was born out of an eternal consciousness. That doesn't make me god, but i am likely the master of my own world.
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@Mopac
You've answered certain questions i have asked horribly, and that is how i know your non-belief isn't true. I am evaluating you not the Bible. I am an Omnist when it comes to religion. I believe every religion is an attempt in answering the spiritual question therefore likely is in part right about some things. But no one religion has it right; i am 100% on that. If you can't see that... we are done.
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@Mopac
Calling it the truth doesn't make it true. How do i not know what you believe when you have been telling me what you believe this whole time..hmm. Plus, it is written in the Beeble. A bee hive of working bees blindly loyal to the queen. Oh... and 2 thousand year old clerics don't know the truth either. They know what their masters tell them to write... and, those masters are still controlling you from the grave...sad... I am so threatened lol... i call projection but whatever. It's hard leaving a cult and years of indoctrination ... so i won't bother. All i can say is think for yourself, man.
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@Mopac
Your ideas, your artwork, everything you've ever put your heart and soul in... they will one day be forgotten, chucked away like a log in the fire.
And you know this how? You are right the body will die... no Chit Sherlock. lol. But you have no idea what will happen to my memories or me. To this world it will even stick around for some time after my death through family and the work i've done. Ultimately, you have no clue what will happen to me after death. I have a few guesses and my guesses are my faith. Plus, like i said... if i don't survived death and am not me anymore... i don't care. I've played out every scenario and i am prepared... so no i am not offended. How can i be when i feel sorry you just don't get it. I've considered becoming dead or nothing and i have come to terms with it. But if that is the case, i don't have to deal with it ergo i don't care.
But, if i do survive how i suspect i will... i will be ready. I am no god? You have no clue. I could even be your god incarnated. I think you are the one offended here since you can't think of a way around your god. You are stuck to it... obsessed with it. Everything negative that comes with giving up your power to someone else i can see within you. You prove my spiritual belief and my suspicions every post.
You do not have a humble belief. You do not have a humble god. Your belief only applies to very few. In all that, it is clear to me you are wrong. Not bc i can see my own spiritual platform, not bc i am offended by your belief, not bc i am scared of your belief... it is simply not humble and only applies to you and a few others. It selfish, and in that i know you are wrong. My belief applies to everyone, even you. You will get whatever it is you seek. Everyone will, so i am content that my belief gives hope to everyone. That has sunk in with me, and i have found home... so now i get to worry about me and my afterlife. I'm always last and others are first... bc i truly love humanity, and i truly want good for everyone. Remember i will in part be a hero, well... i have found a way to give hope to everyone... you have found a way to damn those that don't believe you... your belief is petty.
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@Mopac
You care about an afterlife, but you don't realize that all of your preparation for it is going to let you down, because all of that goes to hell, and I can tell you this with certainty.
There's a hell now? You are just like every other theist. Just bc you think you know something as the truth... you are no different than any other theist. You just define things to your own liking. Since you believe in a hell now... i can tell all your knowledge isn't yours either... you likely follow the Bible. I am quite sure i know what will happen to you in the afterlife and i am not scared for you... you will likely get what every other religious theist will get. To me, that isn't exciting and even more so, hell. I know i won't get what theists want and i am 100% okay with that.
My belief isn't off knowing... my belief is actually of not knowing what can be. I acknowledge many outcomes, and i prepare for all of them i can think of. I don't know what happens, or if you are right... all i know is that it will be me who will deal with it. Not you, not anyone else but me. That is the only logical conclusion. If i am not me, i am something else at which point i don't have to deal with it so i don't care. If it is me, i am prepared.
Basically, you are playing word games in trying to make yourself sound humble. You don't have a humble belief, i can tell you that. If you can sit there are write another soul will go to hell... well that gives me confidence you have no clue what you are talking about. It's ironic bc you may think my belief isn't humble. However, i have made my belief not with myself on my mind... it just works out that the implications are awesome for me too. I made my belief for everyone else. My life's goal was to 1) make sense of spirituality and 2) finding a platform that gives everyone the heaven they seek. I have done both and in that i am content.
I have years of free thinking from every religion and i have furthermore been able to put them aside to figure out a platform where everyone goes to their heaven... however they define it good or bad. My belief is for the world... your belief is to make you feel good. Just like every other religious theist.
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@Mopac
So it seems to me that because you are unsure, you are believing things that you want to believe. Am I mistaken about this?
You are no different. No one is "sure" ... you are believing in what you want to believe too. You just choose to put your faith in something else when i put my faith in myself. Of course i am unsure, since everyone is and are simply lying if they say otherwise, with that said, i am very confident in my belief. This confidence is from observation, thinking, and spiritual experiences that correlate with what i believe. Actually, my spiritual experiences and hearing other's spiritual experiences are the nails that piece it all together.
I can't be sure how things will play out, but i can be sure that it will be me conquering whatever is coming my way. Without confidence in myself, just like this life, i can likely fail. Just like this life, putting your confidence in someone else is and will always be detrimental to your own path. You put yourself in something good... and like i said before, there is no problem if that is how you find peace within yourself and your path. However i am also confident that's not the only way to "the truth." And i can always argue that confidence in yourself is the best way to succeed. Bc there is proof of that all around me. Anthropomorphically, i don't see how that wouldn't also be consistent in a metaphysical sense as well.
Why is the afterlife important? Bc that is what most are living to hopefully get to. However, i have noticed many people aren't able to define "heaven" or the implications of an afterlife. I find that to be dangerous in that you may have an afterlife you don't want if you can't define what you want. I have defined it, and i have a clear path to get to it. I know what to do, how to act, and what to be here to be able to get to it. That is as far as one can go without knowing. But to be prepared is always a good thing.
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@ravensjt
Using statistics is using "propaganda" and "deception"? You are debating out of emotion and I only debate statistically. Please give counter verifiable statistics to mine.
Yes. When you use stats that are presented deceptively... you are being deceptive and peddling propaganda. How is it not? You are using something that has a low number and pretending that defensive uses of weapons is low. However, the stats you are using only account for justified homicide. By its nature, that is obviously low. Like i said, there are many other ways people use a weapon in defense without not resulting in a homicide.
What I DID say was unknowable was your question of :
It isn't unknowable. All you have to do is ask criminals. My friend, when i was a criminal, would carry a 44 mag revolver on his waist and everyone would steer clear of him. He specifically picked that gun bc everyone knows getting hit by a 44 mag will leave a hole through you. No one messed with him. So anecdotally, i know what i am saying. But, you can poll criminals and i bet you most would say the same thing. It's just no one has done so. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to get it though... why do you think cops open carry? They're are scary the same way a citizen is scary with a gun on them.
Link please
(I don't have time to search links or read them thoroughly bc i do this at work. So i skim and hope the site addresses what i want it to). Estimates have been extrapolated to be in the millions... that is all i care about.
I have no idea that things will get better without guns, I do know that NRA claim has been debunked
You are cherry picking... here are articles that go against or refute it:
A credible source going against that glitch of a site you just referenced... (i hope i didn't get a virus from your link)
And first source that popped up in favor of more guns.
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@Mopac
Yet we all die, so doesn't your personal development count for nothing?
Well, this is a hard question to answer bc there are some things that i have no way of knowing, and that is how exactly it plays out in the afterlife. If i go back to the source, then i will also know everything the source does including this experience. Every decision, every moment, etc. If we have individualized from the source, i wonder if we still have certain abilities such as personal omniscience. As my higher self i may have that ability. However, i suspect that i have it to a degree. I personally would never want to be omniscient, therefore, maybe in my individual state, my higher self, i have blocked it out to a degree. Therefore, maybe i only will know the experience i just had and some previous experiences i have done in that state. Not to the level of knowing everything. I would personally make that choice and since in my higher self state i can, that is possibly how it will play out for me at least. Therefore, my development here does count if i want to have a good afterlife and a good "other" mortal experience. I cannot become something good if i don't know how to be good... even more so, i would want to be a hero of sorts, therefore, not only do i have to be good now... i also have to be a hero to the people around me. That's how my belief positively effects my experience. I believe i will reincarnate into another mortal experience and that i personally get to choose. But... i cannot have a good next experience or choose if i don't work on myself here.
If thats it, then what?
If what's it? I don't get what you mean here.
f your faith is in The Truth, and you abide in The Truth., you at least know without a doubt that The Truth survives death.
You define things differently than i do. If what "the truth" is consists of my higher self, then yes... i believe i just change form from mortal to incorporeal intelligence. How it plays out i have a few guesses but there is no way to know which one exactly. All i can do is trust that i've got it no matter what happens... to which self confidence is key.
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@Mopac
I don't believe that omniscience implies nonexistence, and I don't really see how that follows.I also don't see how omnipresence implies nonexistence.
That i know isn't the best way to put it bc it is more philosophical than literal. It isn't existence as we know it. With a past, present and future. Its existence is knowing, being, existing, everything at once. When you know every story, when you know the beginning to end of every event, you aren't existing in the sense of actually existing throughout the experience. It is still existing as what it is... all the omni's. That is just a different form of existing, and i for one, wouldn't find it to be truly existing. Same if i said i am not truly existing if i don't go to the outdoors and enjoy nature. It is existing, however, as everything. Which makes it a different existence than we know.
I also don't see how what you call your higher self isn't a created being.
I never said it wasn't. I specifically said our free will is created first and foremost in our higher selves. And, i also said we have evolved out of the source and are manifestations of everything it already knows. All of this implies we manifested and/or were created from this first source.
It seems to me that you are actually denying God and putting yourself, or what you call your higher self, what I would call your soul, in the place of God.
No i am not denying "god" ... although i deny any definition of god that makes it a "who" and every other definition that isn't consistent with infinite intelligence. If it is consistent with infinite intelligence i am curious and interested bc that is the only logical way i could see it working. Of course, i may be wrong and it is a universe of robots that created us, but infinite intelligence does logically make the most sense out of every alternative i have found.
However we define the first source, it also logically follows that we are all individuals that it already knows. Since it knows my story beginning to end. There are a few ways we could get here. I like to think the first source manifested from infinite reality and has been evolving as an incorporeal intelligence for eons. Therefore, we are all characters that it has literally thought up along the way. Or, this infinite intelligence could be everything from the beginning, but that still means we are individuals within its creation that it already knew. Bottom line is we need to individualize to have an individual experience as we are having now.
Plus, i come from it in a empathetic way too. I hope if the first source is an individual in any way, that it is having its own experiences and not cursed to an eternity of having to watch humans. It's like telling a video game creator just watch me play but you're not allowed. In every conceivable way i can think of this playing out... i can't make sense to why there would be "gods" that care what we do and watch humanity with an interest in certain points of views and others not... unless we start going into polytheism which would make a little more sense in that regard.
All that i can logically put together peppered with a dozen or more profound spiritual experiences i have had, make me highly suspect the platform is something like this model of spirituality. How exactly i don't know, but i am sure the best thing you can do is to strengthen yourself bc it will be you facing eternity... not anyone else. Just like in this life it is you facing reality. I don't see that magically changing when you die in any logical way. If it helps "you" through life having a higher power that is someone else looking out for you... by all means. But there isn't only one way that is right... there are infinite ways and i'd rather choose to believe i have just as much power as any immortal could have. It makes me a better person having this belief plus i enjoy the implications of what an afterlife could be much more than any other belief brings me.
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@Mopac
An evil doer can repent from their wickedness.
I don't believe they can nor should they be forgiven if they pretend to.
God has forgiven us
Forgiveness is a human attribute not gods. God doesn't forgive nor not forgive... "god" is everything. Everything/infinity is indifferent to our limited lives. You keep going towards god being a "who." That is flawed in many ways.
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@Mopac
I'm sorry, but religion has corrupted your thoughts (i wasn't expecting this last response). There are many people that deserve love and forgiveness bc many people aren't evil. People are just shades of good and bad, and i can love them for that. I don't understand how you can look at humanity and even ask the question if "anyone" should be forgiven... that is mindless religious talk. Not everyone deserves love, but a lot/vast majority of people deserve kindness even if they are bad sometimes. That is the definition of bad vs. evil... bad can be forgiven... evil will never be forgiven, truly. So i find it highly offensive that you are putting people that are good/bad in the same category as someone evil. I find that to be religious ignorance and quite simply disgusting. Religion has obfuscated the line bw bad and evil and that is a true poison of religion.Charity is not something that is deserved. Does anyone really deserve to be forgiven? But it is better for all of us if we show charity to one another, because while we condemn others we condemn ourselves who are usually just as wicked as the ones we judge.
Evil should never be allowed kindness or charity. Like i'll keep saying, evil needs to fear good. That is the only way we can effectively minimize violent crime and/or crime... when the punishment scares the criminal. Read a complaint on child rape cases, then read more of the pleadings and discovery... get an idea of what happens specifically, and lets see if it matters if that sob finds god in jail. If it does, then you are just kinder than i am, but i'd also call you a fool for being that kind towards something that wants to severely harm you and your loved ones. Furthermore, i'd call you an enabler for it is "charity" that criminals expect and people like you give it to them.
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@Mopac
Evil should certainly not be loved. It isn't loving evil to be charitable towards someone who might be throwed off.
I think by throwed off you mean someone that loses his/her way in the world... i agree, if they deserve it, help out. But evil... will never get my charity, will never get my love... even if it is trying to be good. You might be confused by my iron clad hate bc you probably define evil different than i do since you are a monotheist. You prob. think sin is evil. No no, there is a clear distinction bw bad and evil. Bad gets my love, get my charity... never with evil. I define evil as someone that maliciously rapes, imprisons or murders and every variation and degree thereof. For instance torture would fall under imprisons/murders. Those three are evil and will never get my charity... even if they are trying to be better. I'll still tie the rope, kick the chair and piss on their graves. I am a paralegal so i get to read the specifics of violence... the world has no idea how egregious acts of evil are. No clue.
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@Mopac
I'm not quite sure qhat you mean by your higher self. Can you explain a little bit more about what you mean by this?How can you say that you are eternally "behind the wheel" when there is an entire universe of causality pressing down on you?
I'll try to shorten my answer to this so ask me questions if i am being too vague. It all starts with the source. The source is everything and eternal intelligence. This would make it a conscious source but truly unfathomable as to what its existence would be. I personally think it really wouldn't be existing in the sense that it knows everything. If you know every story, from beginning to end of every possible world... well, i would say you're basically non-existent. There is no experiencing, there is nothing really... you are and know everything.
Therefore, in order for it to exist, it must manifest as something that isn't everything... something limited. First and foremost, this is why i believe mortality is a very logical creation for an eternal mind. Furthermore, in order to experience .. you need characters and roles. Events and realities. And above all else, you need free will to choose these experiences. Bc if the source dictates and controls all experiences than it still is the same thing it's trying to escape by being mortal. For that reason, i believe the source individualized. That it gave each source within it free will. I believe our free will was given to us in our immortal state. Our immortal state would be the state where we individualized from the source... being our own sources ie higher selves.
From our immortal state we choose to go into experiences. Therefore, my higher self would be my immortal source and the person i am here would be its limit. Think about it like a video game. The gamer is my higher self, and the character is currently who i am as a mortal. A gamer plays games in a world... this metaphysical world being the source. So, the world the gamer is playing is the source, the gamer is the higher self, and the character it plays is who i am here.
There are some other reasons too such as being social. If the source is one...then it is doomed to an eternity of being just one. I believe after the first time the source was social / individualized... it will never go back to being one. For the same reasons a human would go mad if they are the only person alive. But the top one i think is the main reasons.
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@ravensjt
It's odd that you think that my being able to believe in anything is an anchor. If people want to know what I believe.... dont look at the "liberal" or "conservative" or "centralist" label..... just ask me...... that doesnt make sense to you?
I don't care for labels myself. But having a blanket label of being a free thinker / centrist is just like any other label. As you have noticed, i'm not trying to focus on it anymore bc i don't care what you are. There are certain labels that are easily defined that most people will point to in conversation. It's not that i am saying you are that label... just what things sound like so i can be better informed of your stance. So really who cares... all i am saying is being a label no one knows how to define is deceptive in nature... there is nothing wrong / right about that... it just is. Actually, i personally would like a more deceptive label ... i just guessed you might to.
There you go with labels again
Bc again you use propaganda numbers to try and sway... why wouldn't you bring up "well this only has to do with deaths" ... you are being deceptive.
First highlighted: Impossible to know, but I'd wager very few2nd Highlighted: same answer if not lessYou bringing up unprovable hypotheticals does nothing to this debate Bro
Now you are saying the most important role of weapons is impossible to know and through it out? If millions of people are saved due to these uses... would you change your stance? Plus.. the 2.5 million defensive uses study the cdc did is mainly these kinds of defensive uses so there is a study. I am just saying for anyone that lied on those calls... i replace them with people that had a deterrence effect from their weapon. Hard to prove but not something a little logic can't answer. If i wanted to mug someone and saw a gun on their hip... would i still mug them? The answer is most assuredly no. I'd pick the person without a gun. Therefore, it isn't "impossible" to know. You can even study criminals and ask them this question and i bet the answer would be the same. And... women that were saved? I can think of 2 of the bat i saw on the news. But again, a little logic would say a criminal would rather not take a chance. A little thinking answers does it happen, and i am sure it does... your problem would be with the frequency in which it happens i would guess. From that, we can move on to the cdc study. If they estimated 2.5 million defensive uses... well, like i said, including the scenarios i mentioned ... it is probably 3 million or above defensive/deterrence uses if without them its at 2.5.
Ad hom fallacy aside, You have no proof of what your claiming and the claim that less guns will equate to more deaths is a fallacy.That's not proven on any level and is gun maker propaganda
It isn't proven in El Salvador?, Brazil? Mexico? etc. Why are Brazilian citizens wanting guns? But you know what... i am not going to say it is a clear correlation bc it isn't. There is no proof more or less guns is a correlation for either more violence or less. Race actually is a better indicator for violent crime than guns are. All i know is an unarmed populace is at the mercy of crime. You think i should just trust you that things will get better without guns? You think every American should trust your confidence nothing will happen? It's silly, bc you actually have no proof less guns equals less violence any more than i can bring up Vermont.
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@Mopac
Yeah of course some deserve love. But there are certain personalities i cannot love, and furthermore loathe. It's just human nature. They don't deserve my love or charity. Of course there are serial killers and evil people that also fall under the don't deserve any love or charity. If it was up to me... torture would be a punishment to evil. I believe more so in fear than love towards evil. Evil should fear us not expect charity. Let me run things and i bet i would cut violent crime more than half bc no one will want the punishment i would dish out as a consequence. The world is screwed up in my opinion giving said evil charity.
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@Stronn
It's pretty important that a murder suspect is an illegal immigrant. If we did our jobs right, he wouldn't be here and she would still be alive. I find that story a lot more important than all the pointless witch hunt on stupid cases going after Trump. You really think finding out if Trump paid a porn star off is more important than a murder case?
Btw... a plea deal isn't the same as being found guilty which also means it doesn't implicate squat.
and one more thing... i'm not defending Fox here... i hate all MSM... but, your priorities of what news you want to see is a bit curious.
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@Mopac
What do you do in regards to people that don't deserve your love?
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@Mopac
Well, i'm not sure what satanism believes in but i am pretty sure it doesn't believe in god in any form. I am saying everything... the absolute infinite is god. Basically, what you are saying i think. I define the absolute infinite as everything including this universe and beyond it. I believe reality is essentially an infinite and/or our foundation/platform is that of infinite everything. So far... i don't think this is an unfair assumption. Yet, i also add the element of infinite intelligence to this absolute infinite. I believe either intelligence evolved from this infinite platform or has always been a part of it. Either way has the same implications and i can't be too sure which is right... but, they do both lead to the same outcomes anyways.Yeah, you are literally describing Satanism, so you shouldn't really be shocked that you've been accused of being satanic.Yet, there is a greater god than yourself, and that God is The Ultimate Reality.You were born you will die. The One True God is eternal, always existing, never not existing.
You can call this absolute infinite, god, absolute reality, absolute truth, whatever works. It is probably best to just clarify that it is infinite reality with intelligence also behind the wheel. I differentiate them by calling the infinite intelligence of it by calling that the source and infinite reality as just that. If we are all a part of this source or manifestations of its evolution than by definition we are all gods. There is no one higher than who you are. The source itself isn't really anything bc it is everything. All of us, all of reality, etc. I guess you can say the source is a higher power, but i don't believe the source dictates anything that is you. You will eternally be behind the wheel of your experiences.
Therefore, i do not find it to be satanic to trust your higher self and love your higher self. Your higher self is a "higher power" ... you limited here and just human. Your higher self will know why you are human and every experience from beginning to end. Therefore, it is a higher power to you. So instead of putting your trust into another, which also has a higher self, it's better to trust yourself. Plus, since others do have higher selves that are powerful.. it is dangerous giving up your power to other entities that you can't be sure love you back. Love what you are sure of... yourself, family and sometimes friends. If you want to give that extra love to the source, whatever, you can i guess... but, that love is going towards the platform... not to anything that can help you. The one's that will help you are likely family or yourself. All this applies to life, and i don't see it magically changing in an afterlife.
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@ravensjt
The purpose of the Second Amendment was to prevent the new Federal Government established in 1789 from disarming the state militias and replacing them with a Federal standing army. It was a concern that was relevant perhaps for a few years around the birth of the country. It is irrelevant today. Americans do not rely on state militias in 2018 for our freedom from the federal government.
And why not? What if one day we need to fight the government? The whole government argument isn't one of my favorites, but at the very least, i'd rather die fighting then bending over and just taking it... bc the government will likely win in such a war.
Free Thinker is "deceptive"?
I never said free thinker is deceptive although thinking about it now it sorta is bc how do you define it? You can easily flip flop on issues saying you are left or right or anything really. Even centrist i would say is deceptive. It's just how it is when you don't have a clear defined position that people could point to. If someone says they are right, you know the issues they probably believe. It would be harder if someone's like i'm a free thinker... you could believe in anything. It's deceptive in nature. I don't mean in a bad way... you just have to define your beliefs. You can't say i'm a free thinker and expect people to know what you believe.
For every time a person used a gun to kill in a justifiable homicide, 34 innocent lives were ended in criminal gun homicides.
I use NRA tactics you use leftist propaganda. At least with me, i already believed what the NRA says in certain issues before seeing it there and this is one of them. They use the 2.5 million self defensive gun uses. The most liberal put it down at least around 100,000. I think they are both wrong bc i believe it is over 3 million. How can i get that number? Bc i don't define it as "Used a gun to KILL"...
Obviously the number of people using a gun to "kill" another person is low... i would agree that doesn't happen often but it does happen and those people were saved. I define it as "defensive" or "deterrence" gun use. How many people do you think were saved from a criminal bc said criminal saw a gun on someone's waist? How many people do you think were saved bc they pulled a gun on a criminal? How many homes do you think were saved from robbers bc the person thought "they might have a gun."? How many women were saved from a criminal either brandishing or showing off a gun on their waist? I put that number above or right at 3 million a year.
Our violent crime will shot through the roof without the second amendment, besides other dangerous situations it will leave us in. If you think otherwise you are deluded.
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@Mopac
I still yet to today have heard or found anyone that has had 1) as many and 2) the level of profoundness of spiritual experiences that i've had. Actually, the whole reason i started debating my spiritual belief is to find other people that have had experiences like i have had... yet, i have been found to be alone. So, i am curious what experiences you have witnessed or had. First and foremost i am curious bc it's what i am most interested in finding out.
Therefore, i am not a stranger to strange things happening in this world. I am all to familiar with it. With that said, from my experience and observation... it has nothing to do with god but everything to do with self confidence and self love. From what you have said, that is what it sounds like you mean too. Prayer somehow giving a person more confidence to conquer life. However some one gets that i am just happy that they do... but, in a debate here, bc that is what we are here to do... i would say you don't need god for self-fulfilling prophecy.
The one person that should have your back above all else is yourself. In my spiritual belief, i basically believe you are your own god. Technically, the person you are praying to is your higher self to get involved and help you find a way. In short that is how i see it. So i don't understand why you would but so much of this weight onto the idea of a god, when it just takes self-actualization and self love to achieve this.
The one thing i find to be an enemy to my belief, and overall humanities... is that most religions take this self love away from you. They call it satanic, they call it supercilious, they call it arrogance. When simply, in life, we need to love ourselves above all else, and trust ourselves above all else. There is no one i have met that does this and is failing in life. That is my evidence that this is the divinity people need to find. Giving up your power to someone else is satanic in my book.
Therefore, that is why i make a distinction bw "god" being a "who" or an "it" ... if it is on the "it" side, then the one that is god is you. We are all god and we should love ourselves and worship ourselves, of course with the idea of moderation and humility, above all else.
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@Mopac
I thought god wasn't a "who"... how does him answering prayers make sense?
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@keithprosser
I think you are referring to a theistic god... in which i would agree with you. If everything is the manifestation of intelligent design in one way or another is another story. As insignificant as we are compared to the universe, we are far from insignificant. Humans are proof that intelligence exists. Our intelligence might be limited, maybe non-existent in some... but, it is pretty amazing in what it is. I feel the implications of just intelligence being real compared to the grandness of our universe, and furthermore, the paradox of infinity that it seems we have as a platform... the implications of what intelligence has the potential to be is pretty crazy. I'm of the belief we aren't the first intelligence. Also, that intelligence has become an infinite force within our realities / universe. It's a guess of course bc no one can prove it, but i think there is sufficient evidence of an infinite consciousness.
If our reality is the result of infinite intelligence than every strand on our hair, every molecule, every particle, can be pieced together to create anything. I think you might have figured out from my other post... i can see a pantheistic, or variation of it, being the case.
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@keithprosser
I imagine it is the same as suicide. Where one willing to kill them self is usually going to get the job done with a gun. Therefore, the statistics would should that using a gun is more likely than pills or other means of death. However, taking away the gun will do nothing to help the symptom which is depression leading to self harm. Yes... guns get the job done better than any other method, so of course the statistics would look in favor of guns being the best tool... bc they are the best tool.Howeveer plausible that sounds, that is precisely what the statistic mentioned in the OP says is not the case.
Plus, right now there is an option to use guns to kill others. So... they will be used most often, again, skewing the statistics. Whatever stats he used doesn't factor a reality with no guns. If there are no guns, i am sure people will start using the next best weapon to get the job done. Again, you are doing nothing for the actual causes of this kind of violence focusing on the tool. Whatever statistics he mentioned are likely fractions of a percent different if there are no guns. Yes, it might save 1 person out of 10... but 9 will still fall victim to this violence if we don't do something that actually addresses the issue and not focus on the tool. Bc again... the tool is going to stay around for years to come... so how is it productive focusing on it?
How will you save children, victims of abuse, gang violence, etc. focusing on the tool which is not going away anytime soon? You aren't saving anyone debating the tool. It is laws that have nothing to do with guns that will be the most effective in putting a dent into violence. But we keep focusing away from actually doing something that will have an impact.
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