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@Sir.Lancelot
Wow. Tbh, I commend him for being willing to post that even if it was a year ago. Clearly a lot must have changed since then.
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@Sir.Lancelot
Is that a real post? Link or it didn't happen.
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@ultramaximus2
By pinning the debate challenge it is a communication from site admins (who are obviously in a position of superiority within the community) that there is an endorsement of Mikals challenge.
But AR simply accepting the challenge would be the opposite of shutting up. Even if the mods are pressuring him into it, that's the opposite of silencing him.
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@ultramaximus2
They're trying to use humiliation to shut you up.
Offering someone a chance to debate is shutting them up?
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@Vader
@Casey_Risk
To clarify, no one visited Vader last night.
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@Casey_Risk
May as well full claim at this point. I am Albert Einstein. Because of Einstein’s theories about observation in different frames of reference, I am the Watcher.
You think you and Vader may have been bus driven?
Not possible. I watched Vader last night, so if we were bus driven I would have seen you as a visitor.
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@Vader
@Casey_Risk
Well, I received a bulletproof vest last night.
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@Vader
@Mikal
@WyIted
@iamanabanana
@Ultracrepidarian
Less than four hours left.
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@Earth
@Vader
@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
I agree the Earth claim is kind of scummy. Usually, 1x roles are for something powerful like kingmaker. I disagree that Earth's role necessarily should have been SOP claimed though. Regardless, Earth is probably my preferred lynch over Mikal at this point.
Assuming it's a fakeclaim, do you think he came up with it himself? If not, who do you think his partner most likely would be?
Don't see why scum Earth couldn't come up with that claim himself. If I had to guess a partner, it would probably just be someone else in my PoE.
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@ILikePie5
List the top 2 people you would hammer right now if you could. We have less than 24 hours to figure out what we’re going to do
Earth
Mikal
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@AdaptableRatman
Make a condition for the debate that Mikal has to formally apologize in the first round or he forfeits. I think guaranteeing Mikal you will accept the debate is the only way to get concessions from him, otherwise he assumes you'll ditch it.
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@WyIted
Why do you town read uptra
Well, saying his name started with C after someone else had already said that risked a cc, so a bold move if scum. Also saying that he had "no idea what was happening" in previous games felt a bit townie, scum are probably more conscious of how they're perceived and less likely to be self-deprecating. He also compared Pie's behavior to previous games, which shows some effort for someone who doesn't post much, even though the comparison was surface-level.
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@iamanabanana
I town read Ultra at the moment, but Earth is in my PoE. I'm fine pushing for more activity, but both of these players tend to give short posts and not many of them. At best we maybe get a claim, and then we'll have to decide off of that.
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@Earth
@Ultracrepidarian
Any reads/thoughts on recent developments?
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@WyIted
If anyone gets to L1 I will just hammer.
That just turns every player into hated, so maybe don't automatically hammer.
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@ILikePie5
So you think banana and I are both scum and both chose not to fake claim? I'm not stupid, dude.
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@Mikal
Current town pile in orderOwenAnnaWylted - cus of lunaYouCasey / savant
Including you that's like 7/9 players. How do you town read that many people?
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@Vader
It's still a 100% power role that has mega utilityProbs gonna get RB'd for that now or some bullshit will happen where my action won't go thru bc I had to give more info.
I literally never asked you if it was a power role or how much utility it had, but ok then.
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It is situationally dependent. I can be role confirmed by it
I'm fine leaving you alone for now and revisiting this dp2 then.
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@Vader
Are you role confirmable? If you are, I'm fine leaving you alone this day phase.
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@Vader
My character gives away my rolemy character is likely someone everyone in this forum has heard of if I'm guessing and is a guy
Fine, that locks your claim in a decent amount.
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@Vader
My character gives away my role
Then soft claim something about your character you can't take back later. I looked it up and J is the most common first letter for names, plus you claimed late after ensuring there were no conflicts. Rn you have a ton of fake claims to choose from, especially with how loose the connection to autism seems to be.
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@Vader
after 35 posts and a character claim now you decide to flip town
Yes, I scum read banana and then changed my mind after her character claim. Now you're in my PoE and I want a character claim from you. What a hypocrite I am.
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@Vader
Pretty jumpy to now pivot to me to claim.
You were already in my PoE. With my town read on banana, that leaves you, Earth, and Mikal giving me the fewest reasons to town read you. And you've posted less than either of them.
I gave my reasonings for not wanting to claim and I will not being so this DP.
If you have a power role or something, then don't claim it. Just your character.
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@AdaptableRatman
This is a guy with 0 debates trying to step to the renowned guy here
He has debates on ddo, but I'm assuming you don't count those because of vote bombing or something? This is your chance to prove he can't beat you on DART. Send a challenge and make him be the one who chickens out.
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@Casey_Risk
You still scum read Mikal, right?
I'm less confident about him now, especially since I largely agree with his read on banana now, even if it's for different reasons. I think Mikal is just hard for me to read. And since no active player is sticking out to me as scummy, I really need information on everyone before I can confidently have a town or scum block, inactives have tripped me up before.
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AR has said he's fine with fauxlaw, he's friended TheRizzler and David so he's probably fine with them as judges too.
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@Mikal
@AdaptableRatman
I think Mikal just wants some confirmation the debate will actually be accepted. AR, would you be fine accepting with a week argument time and going second? That gives you at least a week, maybe two to submit while also giving Mikal some assurance he isn't coming out of retirement for nothing.
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@Earth
@Vader
@Mikal
@Casey_Risk
@iamanabanana
At this point, I want a character claim from Vader. He's posted the least and was one of the last people to soft claim his character. Then he came in and gave surface-level reads on only a few people. If he's not going to say anything about his role or give detailed reads, we either demand a character claim or give him the benefit of the doubt, and I'm not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt.
VTL Vader
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@Vader
@WyIted
@Ultracrepidarian
Thoughts on banana's claim and on Mikal's behavior?
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@Casey_Risk
@iamanabanana
Screw it, I'm town reading banana for their claim. Not a lock by any means, but if the theme is autism, and that's looking increasingly likely, then Charles Darwin fits as much as my character. It looks like neither of our characters was diagnosed formally, but there's some speculation they were on the spectrum. If banana was scum I don't know that they would think to fake claim a character like that.
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@iamanabanana
he started scum reading me for trying to get town cred with my post asking for soft claims and we went back and forth about it the entire game, he was always my number one lynch target in every read list I posted and vice versa.
If you're a team again, why would you do the same thing you did last time? Everyone knows the trick.
this game is also about trying to identify teams if we are you two biggest scum reads you should be as a townie considering that we are a team if not you need to reevaluate your reads with that in mind
You could both be scum or just one of you, the fact you don't pair super obviously is why my reads on you are a lean at this point. Even if it's just one of you, 50% odds of being scum is > random chance.
Anyways this game is also about trying to identify teams if we are you two biggest scum reads you should be as a townie considering that we are a team if not you need to reevaluate your reads with that in mind. For example I wouldn’t pair pie with ultra even though I have separate reason to scum read either of them, I could piece together that it would have to be one or the other.
This post from you is actually townie. That plus you giving a character claim. I'll read back to see if it outweighs behavior.
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@iamanabanana
just scum together in a recent game and bussed each other the entire game
You bussed each other at MYLO, not the entire game. I'm also not scum reading you as a team, I just individually think each of you has >rand probability of being scum.
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@iamanabanana
Mikal scum reads you, you scum read him back.
I scum read Mikal before he scum read me.
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@iamanabanana
Mikal said he town read you for accusing everyone who scum read you. Yes, I misused the word literally.
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@Mikal
follow up posts seemed scummy
...so then why was it scummy for the people in your PoE to find those posts scummy? Were you expecting everyone to flip at the exact same point you did when banana accused literally everyone, based on behavioral precedent that happened in a Discord chat none of us saw? It's one thing to change your read on banana, it's another to say that everyone who didn't change their read on banana is scum.
Also apparently you just put everyone who was in your town pile into your scum pile, and that part makes the least sense to me.
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@iamanabanana
FWIW I never thought accusing someone who accuses you is always wrong. I've caught multiple scum that way. You being accused of an OMGUS has nothing to do with my read on you, but I scum read you for reasons that would apply regardless of who you accused. Even when Mikal was town reading me, he was in my PoE.
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@Mikal
One of the people on the banana train is prob scum.
Why? Not clear to me how you went from scum reading banana's posts to scum reading everyone else scum reading her.
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Updated reads:
Casey - Town - I feel pretty confident about reading Casey. I think they tend to shrink back more as scum and focus more on reading players as town. So far their play has matched their town meta. Especially the concern about confirming Wylted's role.
Pie - Town Lean - Based on my theory about the theme, I do think Pie is probably telling the truth about his character (won't go into too much detail there). While I do kind of agree with his points about banana, the way he's aggressively going about it could be opportunistic. I know Pie is aggressive as either affiliation, but he tends to go into more detail as town. I think the character is a stronger read for me than behavior, though, so I'm leaning town overall
Wylted - Town Lean - I'm detecting annoyance from the posts criticizing him, not really fear of losing the game. Wylted is another player I feel I can read decently well, and I think the emotions are genuine.
Ultra - Town Lean - The self-deprecating post about previous games felt very towny for some reason. Maybe because I don't think a scum player would find ways to call themselves out. There's also some effort toward analysis of Pie's past behavior.
Earth - Null - Looking back, I see a lot of fluff posting and just being reactive. It's good that he was open about his role information, but then the more recent posts don't seem super towny.
Vader - Null - I don't like the inactivity, but he's offered to full claim dp2. I expect a good claim then, but I don't have much to work with until that happens.
Banana - Scum Lean - The more I look back at her posts, the more opportunistic the behavior seems. I've been scum read as town by town players before, but usually there's at least some logic to the accusation. In banana's case, she seem to be deliberately misinterpreting posts, such as claiming that Mikal was scum reading me and then stopped or criticizing that I null read inactives and then further scum reading me when I mentioned inactives in response to that point.
Mikal - Scum Lean - The stuff he says about reaction tests not being a real reaction test still doesn't make sense to me, and his largely just agreeing with a lot of what Pie said felt a bit like buddying. Seems to be playing the game fairly opportunistically.
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@iamanabanana
If its scummy to pursue our scum reads how do we expect to accomplish anything?
It's not scummy if you actually suspect me, but I'm having a hard time following what part of my posts you thought was so scummy. Not having a lot of confidence in my reads, I guess? Like I said, there's plenty of day phase left and my early reads haven't been super accurate. I'd bet a pretty penny there's at least one scum among the inactives, but none of them has posted enough to stand out.
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@Mikal
I am getting scum vibes from most of her posts other than the first one. The first seemed pretty town and genuinely surprised her character had autism. It was the way she laid out. Like oh yeah I just did some looking and mine does it. Just felt innocent but all the posts after that feel off.
Are you scum reading banana for "acting different than usual" or something else? As much as people get scum read for acting different than usual, I don't think it's particularly alignment indicative.
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Gonna be honest if Mikal is scum I'm having a very difficult time finding his partner. They could just be avoiding each other completely, but Mikal's been tough to read in the past so I my initial instinct may have been wrong.
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@Casey_Risk
I'll look back at Owen games if I get the chance, don't remember them super well.
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