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@iamanabanana
I’ve formed opinions and I’ve interacted with people half as much as you.
I've already said why I don't think your posts are alignment indicative. You've behaved like this as either alignment. The accusing me thing is new and I'll think about whether it's opportunistic but besides that you've been null to me.
How do you expect to pursue your reads or accomplish anything without pressuring them?
I don't need to pressure him this early in the day phase, nor is there enough will in the town to put votes on him. Plus, he's already made it clear he won't yield to pressure as either alignment. My early reads are historically worse than the rate of chance, hence why I'm not overly committed to them.
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@Mikal
Who’s that
Did AR have an account on debate.org?
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@iamanabanana
there’s way too many “null” reads
We're six pages in. Only half the players have meaningfully contributed so far. I'm not going to pull a read out of thin air until I've seen a decent amount of activity from someone.
I wouldn’t expect him to tunnel him hard than back off when Mikal gave him the basest resistance.
I still scum read Mikal but if he's town I don't want to tunnel him all day phase.
I like the reaction tests.
Well that makes one of us.
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Gonna have to take a step back from Mikal for a while bc if he's town I'm just gonna tunnel. Either there's something I'm just not getting or he's arguing very weirdly.
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@Mikal
Saying *day vig * is not the same as seeing who would hop on a bus.
No, but they are both lies intended to make it look like you are gauging reactions.
The day phase has to move forward
The reasoning behind literally all reaction tests.
seeing who pushes first and then who joins is helpful
Okay but this is basically another way of saying "gauging reactions" which again is the logic behind reaction tests. I don't think they work, and I don't think you really use them as town.
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@Mikal
that was not an actual reaction test
Well no duh. You were scum.
it was blatantly painful and a lie and I intended for it to look that way. Reaction tests need to gain something. That did nothing and was me posting fluff
You wanted us to think you were lying about a reaction test? Why? And why can't you be doing the same thing now?
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@Mikal
If you can point me to a game where I do a reaction test as scum id be interested.
Game Show mafia. You "day vig"ed Earth and went after him for what I don't think were strong reasons.
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Here are the reads I promised.
Casey - Town Lean - Mostly for being forthcoming about character information and scum hunting early, which they tended to avoid in the last two games but did as town. I think Casey is the easiest player for me to read in general.
Earth - Town Lean - Not much to go off of, but town reading another player off the bat is usually a good sign as it's not very opportunistic.
Pie - Town Lean - If the theme is what I think it is, then there's a character who is almost certainly in the game, and Pie is the only player it can be.
Ultra - Null - Hasn't been active enough in previous games for me to know their personality. Play so far seems to be going with the flow but nothing blatantly scummy.
Wylted - Null - I want to town read for claiming early, but the role claim seems like a go-to fake claim for scum since I've never seen it before and it's basically negative utility. Especially since Luna said no fake claims were provided for scum.
Banana - Null - Asked for soft claims without providing one, that was a scum tell before. But the context here is different since it wasn't clear what type of soft claims we should be getting. Don't know how to read that.
Vader - Null - Not enough activity to judge.
Mikal - Scum Lean - The reaction tests never seem to help town in my experience, and Mikal seems to rely on them as scum. I can never read Mikal super well, but he's not giving me any great reasons to town read him. And his play overall seems like it's hedging his bets.
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@Mikal
Pie is a town read off his behavior but he is aware enough to mimic this as scum.
His behavior isn't doing him any favors imo but he's a town read for another reason that I'll flesh out when I give my reads in a minute.
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@AdaptableRatman
It is very obvious deep down that depravity wont alter by reasoning or logic.
What if the loser has to donate to a charity of the winner's choice? Then the debate would accomplish something. If Mikal loses you get $30 for a Catholic charity or something.
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@AdaptableRatman
Or a trial about the mods being bullies?
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@AdaptableRatman
What about a debate that's just prosecuting Mikal? A trial, but it's just you listing complaints about him and he's on the defensive?
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@AdaptableRatman
Then forget the gambling thing. This is a chance for you to state your case for a neutral audience and get your message out. The forums aren't a great place for that, but with a formal debate you get to spell out your whole case. Doesn't need to be tearing anyone down, just exposing DART.
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@Mikal
Savant immediately went after me over the pie thing and I’m debating on whether it felt town or opportunistic. Most of my posting this far has been a reaction test and a way to move the game forward.
I went after you for the reaction test, which was rather obvious. You were like this dp1 in game show mafia throwing suspicion out for weak reasons to see what stuck.
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@AdaptableRatman
For your entertainment yeah?
Is that not what you want? To tear Mikal apart for everyone else's entertainment? To show him he shouldn't have messed with you?
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@AdaptableRatman
We also want to start the trend of gambling on debates, so you could wager like $30 against Mikal if you trust the judges to be neutral. Imagine taking $30 from your rival.
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@AdaptableRatman
I think he should be banned and 0 debate take place.
As things stand rn, I don't think the mods will ban him. But you have a chance to fight it out 1v1 on a level playing field with judges you trust. Plus, as I said before, he has more to lose.
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@AdaptableRatman
Would you trust David and TheRizzler as judges?
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@AdaptableRatman
Any other judges or just fauxlaw?
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@Mikal
@AdaptableRatman
What about "Who is the bigger gamethrower: Mikal or AdaptableRatman?"
Fauxlaw can be the judge unless you come up with two others.
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@AdaptableRatman
What topic are you proposing?
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@AdaptableRatman
Would you trust fauxlaw to judge?
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@AdaptableRatman
Think of it this way: he has more to lose in a debate given his record as a good debater. And if you pick three neutral judges he can't use vote bombs.
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This push on Ultra feels silly, but I don't know if I want to town read or scum read Pie for it.
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@AdaptableRatman
Ok but what are some examples of users who could judge?
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@AdaptableRatman
Who would you accept as a judge?
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@Mikal
You are in my PoE right now, so if you have thoughts, I want to see them. The whole mystery box thing seems like more of your scum meta.
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@Casey_Risk
I feel like Wylted might just be fakeclaiming here tbh
I'm fine getting an explicit character claim from him. Scum know the theme, so if he's town they've probably figured out his role anyway.
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@Earth
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
@Ultracrepidarian
Do your characters have anything to do with animal rights and/or were they vegetarian?
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@Mikal
I don't think he's playing, just posting on the thread for some reason.
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@Mikal
Hitler was a vegetarian, but I think it was for health reasons. That could be the connection.
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@Mikal
Nothing in my PM about animal rights or about autism, but my character was apparently very active promoting animal rights and a strict vegetarian near the end of their life. Hope that doesn't make it obvious.
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@Mikal
But yeah if Wylted is seriously claiming hitler then I’m now lost as well.
That was one of my first thoughts when I saw the initials, but I don't think Wylted would call Hitler a "friend to the Jews."
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@Mikal
I mean if mafia knows the theme split why are we fucking around and not just talking openly.
That's fair. I'll put all my thoughts out in the open.
The name of the game reminded me of this show "Atypical" that I saw the first season of on Netflix a while back about a kid with autism. When I saw it was a hint to the theme, I assumed it the characters were all going to be either people on the autism spectrum or things having to do with autism. Or maybe TV shows. I'm less sure of that now, since my character died not long after autism was discovered and was never diagnosed with it. There's a lot of speculation though that my character may have had it, so I might be close to guessing the theme, but I really don't know at this point.
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@AdaptableRatman
The reason it works is because most men have innate urge to protect and provide for women.
Which is what feminists want ironically, but they frame themselves in opposition to this. They don't like the damsel in distress stereotype and complain about video games about men saving women. But then they also want men to protect women from the evil men raping and killing them and say there need to be more positive role models for men. Most of the work is done for them with men wanting to protect women, but then a lot of feminist thought leaders shoot themselves in the foot. They could be stroking mens' egos to get the support they want, but instead they die on hills they don't have to.
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@Mikal
Willing to invest into it myself
Buying ads? Not trying to pressure you, but if you mean something like literally investing money, that might save the site.
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Imagine that men's rights activists went to women and said, "Blarghs make life easier for women and prevent them from being discriminated against. All women benefit from blarghs in some way. Now help us destroy blarghs." What kind of response would you expect?
Now replace "men's rights activists" with "feminists" and "blarghs" with "male privilege." The term "male privilege" doesn't even imply that something is bad for women, just that it's good for men. Why would a statement like "all men benefit from the patriarchy" make men want to abolish the patriarchy? If anything, it makes it sound really appealing.
Yeah feminists also have talking points outside that, but once you frame your ideology that way, everything else is trying to dig yourself out of a hole.
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@Ultracrepidarian
any ideas for monetization then
Gambling. Let people wager on debates and charge a facilitation fee. Or have a pay-to-enter tournament.
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I legitimately don't understand how our few new members find us. When I googled "debate online" and "moderated online debate" this site wasn't listed, only pages upon pages of forums, courses, and videos. Even when actively trying I was able to find the site any way besides a direct search.
We need ads. A lot of them, and they cost money.
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@AdaptableRatman
Do you accept Mikal's debate challenge?
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@WyIted
Yeah but if you were scum I don't think you would risk fake claiming and getting cc'd by two people.
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Initials A H since I was last.
Both of these have been soft claimed already, so if Wylted doesn't get cc'd by Earth, I feel safe giving him a strong town read. I don't think scum would risk a conflict like this, unless they were just going to claim their actual role. And I don't think they would, since according to Casey, the theme split is apparently obvious.
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I'm town reading Casey, but in hindsight I'm not sure pressuring them into giving more info was a good idea. If they're telling the truth about being very prominent, their role may have been an attempted fake claim for scum, but now scum know to avoid last names starting with M.
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@Mikal
@Ultracrepidarian
First names or last names? I said first names but I don't think banana was clear on that.
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@Mikal
not get fake claims and mafia can prob just ask what the split is. Limiting the claims early is better
Tbf, if scum are in the late claimers, it's not gonna be hard for them to come up with fake claims this way.
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