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@Casey_Risk
Honestly I barely remember last game. Guess I can check.
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@whiteflame
Push first. I know we've got limited time, but I'd still rather give him a chance to claim. Unless he's something like doctor, I'd probably still prefer him as a lynch though.
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@Casey_Risk
I don't remember, I'm talking about this game.
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@Casey_Risk
he has definitely claimed his character.
I'm going back to see if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't. A lot of fluff posting though.
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@ILikePie5
he hasn’t had a chance to claim either
Ok, so make him claim. You have two votes. You can put pressure and have a lot of power to direct the conversation.
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@whiteflame
I will point out that you know that my current alternative is you, right? Your current vote's on WyIted. Convince me that that's the right choice.
I've made the case before, but here it is: WyIted's usual meta is something like 50% trolling, 50% contributing to town. Right now, I think 0% of his posts have actually contributed to scum hunting, but he's posting a lot. Easy way to waste time. I'm also more inclined to vote someone who's posted a lot while giving very limited info about their role. All WyIted has said is that his character rapes separate from murders. That's almost entirely designed to be vague and describe like 100 different serial killers.
You want to know why we're feeling a lot of time pressure right now? A good chunk of that is due to WyIted derailing the conversation by asking about rape (which is a pretty limited way to narrow down characters). We get some blame for letting derail things, but he did, and now here we are. Any other player would be sussed for this, but WyIted gets the benefit of being a known troll, so his antics don't get looked at too hard.
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@whiteflame
the Hider role is just one that comes off as very safe with a perceived "validation" achieved by never being killed by hiding behind scum.
If hider claim is scum, then unless they hide behind their partner, they'll have to eliminate a town player from the PoE every day.
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@whiteflame
We can lynch the hider claim later. If they're town, then at least we got some utility from it.
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@ILikePie5
role confirmation doesn’t mean affiliation confirmation.
Sure, but it's better than nothing. Nobody is affiliation confirmed. If we discover mafia have a role blocker or something, then you'll know I'm probably not that. Also why go after me? Does having a confirmable role make me more suspicious than everybody without one?
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@Casey_Risk
has also been more or less ruined by them claiming.
Only if scum has redirector.
Why do you care how I use my votes?
I wasn't sure if you had a role reason for only using one vote, and you are still a possible third party or scum.
That2 can town confirm people, and I know I'm town. I don't like these options. But you're right, we don't have much time. I'm going with my gut here. If WyIted is town, he's played pretty unhelpfully so far.
VTL WyIted
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@That2User
I insta die if I hide behind mafia.
Well that sucks. If scum can redirect, you're dead.
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@WyIted
It's why I need more information on you. I can't trust my gut here
I mean I gave you everything I could without copy-pasting my PM. If I get lynched early again because I "feel off," I'm cursed or something.
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@WyIted
Savant feels more off to me TBH.
When do I not? lol
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@ILikePie5
She’s been a lot more interrogative compared to last game
Players tend to be more interrogative as town and try to blend in as scum. Of reasons to scum read that2, I wouldn't say that's one of them.
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I don't think most transgender people would dispute that sex exists—i.e. humans are generally grouped into a bimodal distribution of mainly being born with female traits (born with a uterus, XX chromosomes, etc.) or mainly being born with male traits (born with a penis, XY chromosomes). I say "bimodal" instead of "binary," since there are exceptions, but it's a pretty strong correlation. People are usually born with mostly male traits or mostly female traits, hence the grouping of the sexes. Otherwise there would be no reason to have different terms for "trans women" and "cis women."
And then there's gender. When trans women are referred to as women, this is using the term to refer to gender identity (which is arguably more nebulously defined). I'd wager that for a long time, a lot of people used the term "woman" to refer to sex and didn't know about gender identity at all. Some dictionaries define the word "woman" as referring to sex, but then some don't. Trans people aren't a monolith, of course, but I do know that many trans men with female traits would say that their sex is biologically female but object to being called a woman. In other words, they're fine using the term "female" to refer to sex but not the term "woman."
This might have something to do with the etymology of the word, but it might also have to do with how often it's used. If we has another word like "blargh" that was widely used to refer to humans born with female traits, would most trans men object to being described that way? Since both cis women and trans men are blarghs, would using the term "blargh" be different from saying they were assigned female at birth? Part of me suspects that many people would object to the use of the term "blargh" for the same reason they would object to using the term "woman" to refer to biological sex.
I guess a similar thing could be said for weight, where an overweight person might be fine being described as overweight but object to being described as "fat." On the other hand, I can't think of any woman with brown hair who would object to the term "brunette." It might be the case that gendered terms sometimes being intended as an insult (i.e. "you throw like a girl") makes some people not want to be referred to with that term, similarly to "fat" being used as an insult. So maybe people's opinion of the term "blargh" would depend on whether the word "blargh" had cultural connotations associated with it.
Maybe a trans person would be able to give their take on this, though it probably depends on the person. I did make some assumptions here about what trans people generally prefer to be called, and I don't know how accurate those assumptions are.
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@ILikePie5
I want to lynch That2. Something feels off with her compared to previous game.
I'm open to this lynch, but at least give a reason beyond "something feels off."
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@ILikePie5
I have a theory on themesplit, and it implicates Savant right now based on everyone that has claimed so far
Well it's already been brought up that my character could be part of a scum pair. But then, the theme split could also be pretty much anything, and all it takes is one scum fake claiming to make it near impossible to identify the split.
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@AustinL0926
If we collectively decide who you send the item to, that could potentially make it easier for scum to interfere. If anything, we should probably have some number of people agree to use some item, and then you pick one of them randomly.
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@AustinL0926
If I'm giving info to scum for nothing, then surely I'm town?
I mean, I phrased it that way as in "if Austin is town, why is he doing x?"
Ik we've often town-v-towned in the past over stuff like this so I'm not going to push this, but I don't really get the reasoning for scumreading me past activity which is NAI
I'm town reading you more with your newer posts, maybe just since I have more to go off of. I don't see those four items going to scum, and I don't see you making them up as scum either.
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@WyIted
Technically, lynching a Pie role is lower-risk, since we get info but he still gets to post. But I'm pretty hesitant to lynch him for just that reason. If we did go that route, we should have him claim both his characters/roles, then pick one randomly to lynch. That way he's incentivized not to lie about either.
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So I'm not putting much stock in role claims right now, since one scum could easily say their actual character without revealing the theme split. Given that I'm the only one on the chopping block right now, here are the people I'd be willing to lynch, from most scummy to least:
WyIted - Mainly reasons I've said before. Saying my role is obscure I guess is an attempt at scum hunting, but it's the laziest form of it and was something most people would have seen already. Normally, I'd expect WyIted to offer some substantive analysis in addition to messing around, but it's just been trolling and fluff posting from him this game.
Austin - Mainly for showing up only to character claim, very sparce list of reads, and then dipping out. Giving his character up makes it easier for scum to fake claim, and he could have put in more resistance to giving away what his character was. Also, he's a good player, but hasn't really done anything to help with scum hunting. Maybe he's just busy, but his lazy play style here is a possible red flag. I know he said his role might gain utility from saying what it is, but then why not say that instead of his character? Seems like giving information to scum for nothing
That2User - Seems to be throwing out a lot of reads without much justification. Maybe that's their play style as town, but it also reads as trying to find what sticks. The soft claim makes sense, I guess, but again, I'm not putting much stock in claims.
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@Bullish
VTL Savant
Dude, not even a read? Even if you think I'm scum, it doesn't help town to not provide an explanation for voting me.
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@Casey_Risk
Ok, but the role being part of a pair was what you thought was suspicious. That doesn't increase the odds of it being a fake claim.
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@Casey_Risk
There aren't many female serial killers, however. I think it's very possible you softed Wuornos with Hindley as your backup.
If I was scum, part of an obvious pair, and was going to fake claim, why would I soft claim someone similar to my actual role?
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@Casey_Risk
So, was your good reason just that your role is technically confirmable?
I wanted to bait a night kill to protect town power roles + didn't want to make it easier for scum to fake claim. Did the same thing last game, and it didn't work, but it's worked in the past. Of course it completely backfired now that I've been forced to claim, but I figured it was worth the risk.
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@Casey_Risk
member of a pair like that
Hence, if I was scum, I would probably fake claim. Which is WIFOM logic, but then there are so many serial killers to fake claim who are less obscure than Myra Hindley. Not saying it's impossible that a scum player would brazenly claim their actual character, but they're probably less likely to when the theme split is supposedly obvious to them.
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@Casey_Risk
Ctrl+F doesn't reveal anything about 'code' or 'message' on the wiki page.
I didn't write my role PM word for word, and I'll confess I don't know anything about Myra Hindley besides what Luna told me. At this point, you know everything I do.
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@whiteflame
@Casey_Risk
I'm Myra Hindley. I wrote coded messages to Ian Brady, hence I am the messanger. I can message one other player at night. I assisted Ian Brady in sexual assault against children, though the way my role PM was written, I don't think I raped the children myself.
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@whiteflame
I'm role confirmable. Claiming my role now doesn't help. I've been less active in the past few games, so idk why it's being seen as alignment indicative now.
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@whiteflame
I think I'd prefer a full claim unless you have really good reason not to provide one.
Yes, I have a good reason not to provide one. Not going to say what it is right now.
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I also don't know what to make of Pie yet. Seems easy to conclude that both his roles are town, but then maybe the game is made to punish people who assume that. Won't be voting him today, but it would be nice to get more information about him later.
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Ok, might give full reads later, but here's where I'm at now:
Casey and Bullish seem town to me. I don't think Casey would suddenly stop pushing Austin if they were scum, and Bullish's town read seems to come from a genuine place. I wouldn't say I have any strong null reads, though WyIted does seem to be deflecting more than usual in a way that's not really helpful for scum hunting. Maybe he's just trolling, but he's a possible scum in my eyes.
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@AustinL0926
@Casey_Risk
I don't know whether a full claim itself will be all that useful, but I'm down to put pressure on someone to keep things moving.
VTL Austin
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@Vader
@Bullish
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
All right, sorry for not posting much. My serial killer is a woman. Hadn't heard of this person, but rape is involved. That's all I'm saying about my character right now.
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@ILikePie5
No as in both your roles are aligned with some third party faction.
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@Vader
I targeted Vader and he used a killing and manipulative action.
VTL Vader
Anything to say about this?
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@Lunatic
I was literally just gonna say this, and then he got Counter claimed by a doctor, if that’s not a scum slip what is
No, in this case scum slip is where the scum accidentally says something like "I'm scum" or "I know x person is town." That's what I'm being accused of now. Not a counterclaim. You're smart enough to know the difference.
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@ILikePie5
I said "in this case that2 is just a noob." As in that's why they weren't posting. I wasn't saying it was impossible for them to be scum.
Is your affiliation confirmable?
Yes
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@WyIted
No, it means Vader submitted a post before I did but I didn't see it until after I hit post.
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
it seems pretty damning
Almost every game, someone sees Jesus in a piece of toast. These "scum slips" don't disproportionately catch scum, in fact scum is far more likely to be careful with their wording to avoid such accusations. Every game, people (mostly Pie) expect scum to accidentally say "oh yeah I'm scum" or "I 100% know this guy is town" and then they twist some vaguely written post to mean that. If it's ever worked in the past, it was luck. I can pretty confidently say that I've never scum slipped, though I've been accused of it as both affiliations.
Does anyone want to come forward with an example of a time they legitimately scum slipped as scum and got called out on it? Because in my experience that has never happened.
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@Vader
Unless it is affiliation confirmed it really doesn't mean anything.
Clearly it does, since you were about to "pressure" me for a claim.
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
Wait Post 69 implies Savant knows That2 is town cause Wylted said he believes scum always have a low poster and Savant said that’s not the case here.
WyIted said that and then voted for that2. I was saying that that2 low posting was not alignment indicative.
Also I will be confirmed later, so I'm not saying anything about my role today.
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