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@WyIted
it still doesn't explain house prizes quadrupling over the last 10 years
If demand is going up, that's good for people who own homes. The people complaining about the problem are part of said demand, so they may as well blame themselves.
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@n8nrgim
The cost of living is way out of whack.
Standard of living has increased.
The average house now is 400k
That's because they've gotten bigger.
Education costs tens of thousands when before it's a few hundred or thousand
Because it leads to higher pay.
The minimum wage in the 70s was 15 bucks after inflation and is only 7 and change now. Wages just tread water and have barely gone up after inflation over decades.
Real compensation has increased, matching the rise in productivity.
Healthcare was was less now it's 18% of our gdp, which also isn't competitive with other countries who spend half as much and cover everyone with less wait times and better in general.
Life expectancy has continued to rise.
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@n8nrgim
The cost of living is way out of whack.
Standard of living has increased.
The average house now is 400k
That's because they've gotten bigger.
Education costs tens of thousands when before it's a few hundred or thousand
Because it leads to higher pay.
The minimum wage in the 70s was 15 bucks after inflation and is only 7 and change now. Wages just tread water and have barely gone up after inflation over decades.
Real compensation has increased, matching the rise in productivity.
Healthcare was was less now it's 18% of our gdp, which also isn't competitive with other countries who spend half as much and cover everyone with less wait times and better in general.
Life expectancy has continued to rise.
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@n8nrgim
undue influence
Undue why?
don't you think the cavemen would try to take from the one percent to meet their basic needs?
Not if they don't want to destabilize the economy.
the way it's becoming, poorer americans can barely survive let alone get ahead
How are they worse off now than 50 years ago? Or any earlier time in history?
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@Math_Enthusiast
If great mathematicians made as much as Elon Musk does, mathematics might advance much faster. So why not allocate taxpayer money toward mathematicians? Well, in addition to the economic calculation problem, it might be the case that a large company provides more measurable utility than said advances in mathematics. The biggest reason for this is that people are willing to pay for products right now, so we instantly know they have x amount of value. The value of advances in mathematics is much more uncertain and theoretical, as well as prone to corruption. How will the people paying mathematicians between a formula that will be useful in the future and one that won't be?
Of course, if Terence Tao is interested in selling his services privately to large companies, that avenue is available to him. The issue is that artificial incentive structures are hard to tie to real world value.
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@Math_Enthusiast
Who says that we're letting politicians decide which companies stay, which companies go, and what to invest in? We could have rules in place
Who do you think makes the rules?
I am proposing that people would be educated in investing, presumably this could culminate in some kind of test to prove their ability to make fruitful investments.
We're pretty bad at testing this. Grades don't reliably predict income or how good someone is at managing a company, whether they will innovate new products, etc.
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@Math_Enthusiast
it would be invested responsibly on their behalf
The obvious trade off here is freedom. The government could choose what clothes people wear, what food they buy, etc. But to some extent, we let people make their own choices. And it's not like politicians are known to be super ethical where the stock market is involved.
rather than us trusting ordinary people with the weapon of potential mass financial destruction that we call investing
How do you know which people are good at investing or running companies? Really hard to tell until it happens. Is everyone given practice money to invest? How do we know the "good" investors will bother to work hard if they don't have the chance of becoming super rich?
We would still have people like Elon Musk making investments and independently deciding how companies are run. They just wouldn't be making billions anymore.
Would Elon Musk work that hard to invest without the incentive of being a billionaire? That prospect clearly does motivate some people. And while it's a lot of money to one person, it's pennies compared to the value of his companies. If Elon making millions instead of billions makes his companies 10% less efficient, that tradeoff isn't worth it. Talent or no, slight differences in the performance of a few people has a huge impact on their companies.
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@Math_Enthusiast
these people would be investing government money, of which there is a lot
And where are you getting that money? From taxpayers. So you are forcing people to invest, just indirectly.
wouldn't be allowed to invest
Why not? Additional money being invested is good.
Okay, so he would be one of the qualified investors.
Someone like Musk is doing more than just investing, they also make high-stakes decisions on how companies are run. I suppose you could replace that with central planning, but then you just reinvented the Soviet Union.
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@n8nrgim
hoarding resources at gun point
So, owning things?
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@Math_Enthusiast
- More qualified investors: Currently, anyone can risk their life savings on the stock market and other investments if they so choose. Wouldn't it be logical to require people to actually know what they are doing? It protects investors and boosts efficiency.
This is basically what index funds and mutual funds are. However, (a) Most investments will go up anyway, and (b) investments from a lot of people are needed to determine the value of a company in the first place. 1,000 investors is better than 100. The current system allows a lot of money to be invested while also not forcing people to invest anything.
Also Elon Musk would clearly be one of these "qualified investors" since he became the richest person in the world, so you shouldn't have a problem with him making that much money.
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@Math_Enthusiast
It's a waste of resources
Resources that wouldn't exist if no one invested.
we consider a good investment valuable enough that we let some live in such extreme luxury while others starve
Less people are starving after thousands of years of trade and innovation. You know, investments.
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@Shila
well informed members
Ok but he knew the actual name of the principle and you didn't.
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@Math_Enthusiast
I wanted to throw some numbers down to give some perspective on just how ridiculous the volume of resources he has at his personal disposal is
Saying any level of possessions is ridiculous is going to be arbitrary. Wealth is relative. Why isn't it ridiculous to make $100,000 a year?
How is this better than a world where all of his unnecessary wealth goes directly to charitable causes?
It's better because it's unlikely anyone's going to assume the risk of investing if they get punished for it.
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@Shila
His salary earning suggests that.
Only if you assume that salary is determined solely by level of effort. You would be wrong.
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@Math_Enthusiast
Also it's weird that this is only really brought up when a company is doing well. If the leadership of a company causes it to crash, everyone is fine blaming the people on top.
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@Math_Enthusiast
Is Elon Musk doing more work in one minute than everyone in an average American household combined does in 4.5 years?
No. Not sure who is saying that he is though.
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Yeah, I feel like if Vader was going to do that gambit, he'd have the other scum claim gravedigger so he could still use ninja. No way to know when he claimed (basically first thing in dp1) that his partner would get lynched.
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I mean I guess scum could just never use ninja, but that's a big thing to give up.
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@WyIted
I was thinking Vader might be a ninja, but WF's take convinced me that wouldn't really work.
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@whiteflame
I trust WF's judgment, and at this point I need his cooperation for this to move forward.
VTL Austin
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@whiteflame
Are we lynching Vader, WyIted, or Austin? I can't lynch any of them without your cooperation.
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@WyIted
Forget about mechanics. It doesn't matter.
Except last day phase, when it did matter.
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@WyIted
He can't help with this one specific vote. We want him for his ability tonight.
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@WyIted
Austin's scumminess has little to do with reads and more to do with mechanics. Surprised you called us "spinless" and then let him talk you out of this.
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@WyIted
You're still commiting to lynch Austin tmrw, though, right?
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Vader vs WyIted, idk. It's WIFOM, but I don't know that scum would claim gravedigger so early.
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@Lunatic
@Vader
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
I'll seek a claim from Vader, but I'd rather lynch WyIted.
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@WyIted
I still suspect Austin more than you. But I'm just doing risk assessment here.
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@WyIted
Also if Austin is town, not sure defending him would make Luna scum. If anything, it would make our reads on him misplaced.
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@WyIted
My vote on you the result of two things: (a) scum might have used ninja instead of rb last night, and (b) your role will never be confirmable, and it lends credence to the possibility that scum used rb on a passive player, since a passive player exists.
Luna has already committed to lynching Austin tmrw. Doesn't really matter if I'd cave, because I'll likely be dead. But if I'm alive, I won't vote outside of Austin tmrw.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
I am vanilla and "cosmetics" . Cosmetics don't really effect gameplay which is why the vanilla role is attached
WyIted claims vanilla. I see no reason not to lynch him today. Either we get Austin tomorrow and win or Austin flips town somehow and then we probably would have lynched the vanilla claim anyway.
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@WyIted
VTL WyIted
I do want a claim from you. Not saying I definitely won't lynch Austin this DP, but it's going to help with PoE.
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@Lunatic
Or They had to choose between the roleblock or another role.
You know, this is actually the first thing I've seen that makes Austin's innocence plausible to me.
Unvote
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
I think whiteflame is going to be the deciding factor on this. Either votes for Austin or gives a firm commitment to lynch Austin tomorrow. I see your logic and all, but I don't love going in blind when scum have an unknown faction perk.
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@Lunatic
I see a passionate townie.
If he was passionate, why say "I'm town btw" instead of "you people are gonna regret this" or something? Like, it goes without saying that he's still claiming town unless he confesses.
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@Lunatic
I don't think you're bad at reading people in general, I just think you might have a blindspot for Austin in particular.
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@Lunatic
Also no offense, but the last time I remember you defending Austin like this, he was scum.
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@Lunatic
Why? It's NAI at best.
It might be if it wasn't for the post like a second after. Austin making sure we don't miss his "town slip."
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@Lunatic
The "that's a hammer, i'm town btw" was just very suspicious.
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That's hammer, and I'm town, btw.
See, I don't think Austin would forget about his own vote. Or forget and see it that quickly to correct himself. Forgetting and suddenly remembering is maybe the most believable explanation if he's town, but this seems more like a gambit to me.
And either way, this isn't an insult. Whether Austin is town or scum he got dealt a pretty bad hand this game and he stuck it out well. I see the purpose of the up front claim regardless of affiliation. If I was scum (or town) in his position, I don't think I'd have done much better than he's doing.
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@Mharman
I don't think it's a hammer since Austin unvoted.
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@AustinL0926
If you end up being lynchproof or something, that would be a crazy gambit.
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@AustinL0926
Yeah just saw that. But you are totally scum.
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@Mharman
@AustinL0926
That's hammer, and I'm town, btw.wait no that's not hammer lol
Lol nice "town slip." Also I think it is hammer.
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