Total posts: 4,278
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
Despite accusing me, I thought you were town at first since you had an interest in pushing the game forward. I became a lot less certain after that, since going with your initial accusation is just playing it safe. Lynching a non-cc'd doctor is not in the interest of the town, but as scum it is your interest to get rid of me, and you don't lose much by voting for someone you've already pushed hard. It's more that your pro-town and anti-town actions cancel out than that you haven't posted enough.
Moozer has posted a bit but hasn't done much to move the game forward. Strikes me as a new player acting like a new player. Probably what he would do as town and what he would do as scum.
Vader gave his role early, which makes him more likely to be town, but that also seems like a viable strategy for scum trying to be townread. Also scum can ask Pie questions to make fakeclaims. Hasn't been putting much pressure on other players, but he's busy, so I don't know what to attribute that to.
Barney is acting the same way he did as town. His criticisms of my role seem reasonable, even if I think his conclusions are wrong.
Lunatic figured out the theme split and has said a lot that experienced players haven't challenged about the best strategy for town, so I will take thir word for it that he isn't BSing. Also, being the second person to jump on a train this early is a risk I don't think scum would take.
whiteflame has posted a lot. If he was scum I think he would have said something that didn't make sense or that would cause me to scumread him. He mostly seems to be evaluating things the way he did when he was town.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
Slight Town
Barney, Lunatic, whiteflame
Neutral
Austin, Earth, Moozer, Vader
Slight Scum
JoeBob
I gave my reasons for suspecting JoeBob already. Generally, I think that scum roles are going to be negligent to push the game forward. I gave a lot of neutral reads since I don't know how most people here normally play.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Killing a doctor violates a lot of things.
In this case, the town's odds of success.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
I'll have you know that killing a doctor violates the Geneva Convention.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
For what it's worth, I do think Pie is stretching a bit with these role justifications (maybe to balance the game). Moozer's character connection is a bit odd as well.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
I can paraphrase the info I got from Pie:
I took the place of my father, Arjuna, in battle. I played key roles on the battlefield to prevent the deaths of my fellow warriors, drawing powerful fighters from the enemy to me and surrounding them with the Chakravyūha.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
I (Abhimanyu) sacrificed myself to protect others.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@Barney
@AustinL0926
@JoeBob
If I have 4 votes against me, I'll give my role.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
The Joebob vote is opportunistic as heck.
Voting is a scum thing now?
Created:
Posted in:
Much as I'd prefer VTNL to getting lynched myself, I'd rather lynch someone than lynch no one. If I had to go after someone, it would be JoeBob, since none of his posts have moved the game forward. But I'm open to other suggestions that aren't me.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@Barney
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
I won't make you wait for a third vote, since I'd like to lynch scum today and we are running out of time.
I am Abhimanyu.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
It locks scum into picking characters from one faction only, and if there’s a limited number of characters in that faction, even better chances that when they claim they get counter claimed.
I agree that it's better to know the theme split, but it would have been better to reveal the suspected theme split after someone has claimed a character in the wrong faction. If by day 2, six people had claimed Pandava and one person had claimed Karauva, figuring out the theme split then would help us to identify the odd one out.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
If no one claims a Karauva that’s an indicator that is what the theme split is and we’re picking everyone early into a soft claim.
Also makes it easier for the scum to pick fakeclaims.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
Not liking Savant's decision to push yet another inactive, Moozer, instead of engaging or posting reads.
I didn't push Moozer, I asked for his opinion. Wanting more engagement from people doesn't mean I automatically think they are scum. Also, I said I think Earth is likely town.
I feel the least confident in JoeBob's innocence. No one else seems likely to be scum.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
You were online recently, but you haven't posted in a while. Between me, Earth, and JoeBob, who would you want a claim from?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
I'm willing to do anyone in my null or lean scum list.
So me or Earth? I think that will end with lynching a town player.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
Yes, but that wouldn't have happened if you didn't claim some other mysterious aspect of your role along with Miller. Also, what about Invincible?
I guess that's true. I was mostly remembering the pawn thing, since it got mentioned several times, and that makes me a bit reluctant to reveal any kind of information, character or otherwise. But as I said before, if you can get two more people to ask for my character, I'll reveal it, despite several character claims already in day 1.
WIFOM + why would you specifically mention it?
I mention it because it impacts how much we can trust people saying they are Pandava. If by WIFOM you mean I'm either town or scum pretending to be town, then yes. That's true of everyone in the game.
Pushing on inactives is inherently pointless because the only way they would respond to it is if they intended to be active anyway.
It could pressure them to post if they log in and weren't planning to. But sure, there's no guarantee it will help.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
Haven't seen your read on JoeBob yet. I could see him being anything, honestly.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
@AustinL0926
I'd be fine pushing this squabble to day 2 (though I probably wasn't going to accuse Austin anyway). We do need to lynch someone, though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
Newbie scum players struggle with direct lies, so mitigating responsibility or explaining how scum would lie is pretty common.
Maybe that's true from your experience, but from what I've seen, it seems like a random thing to scumread me for. As town, why wouldn't I point out that scum is likely to just lie if we tell everyone what we think the theme split is?
Pushing on inactives in response to being lightly sussed is very scummy tbh
I'd been curious about Earth's reasons for not posting for a while, and I didn't even say he was probably scum. I just said I would like to see him post more.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
I'll character claim if two more people vote for me. We already have a few char claims already, though, so I'd recommend against it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
but it was his role claim, not his char claim, that got him killed.
I was killed for being a pawn, which was my character. (Pawns can promote.) Read the endgame and the PM you sent me during that game.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Earth
@Barney
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
I'd like to see Earth post more, if anything. I don't know what his usual MO is, but disappearing on day 1 is not helping town.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@AustinL0926
Slight scum:Savant (fluffposting, asked a few questions not very relevant to the game, much more passive compared to previous ones)
The previous games had Pie moving things along and a lot of immediate accusations, which give a lot more to work off of. I'm also a lot more reluctant to give character information given that it got me killed the first night in the last two games. I could start pushing random people, but that seemed to help scum in the last two games.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Pandava's I believe. I'm not sure how useful this is given that no one is going to say they are aligned with the Kaurava's.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
Hopefully, this chitchatting about nothing will help with behavioral reads. But I have my doubts.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@JoeBob
I’ve never been good at making conversations
JoeBob's sentence is 7 words long. July is the 7th month. The Declaration of Independence was adopted on July 4th. Will Smith was in Independence Day. Forger is a synonym for smith. Loid Forger is in Spy x Family. Mafia are crime families.
JoeBob is a mafioso by process of deduction.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
If we end up with no information, is it better to lynch randomly or lynch no one? I know the former is usually preferable in regular mafia, but we have a 7v2 numbers advantage against scum, and we've had a lot of day 1 mislynches (seems like it's usually what happens now). At least a single night could allow investigative roles time to gain some information. Has lynching no one day 1 ever been a viable strategy?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@Barney
@Vader
@Moozer325
Does Vader tend to be inactive when he is town? I checked the last game when he was scum, and he took a good while to post then too. But I've only played with him twice, so I'm not sure how much that matters.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
Claiming characters this early seems like a bad idea anyway, since all it does is help scum narrow down what they can claim and get away with.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
How often has town lynched scum on D1? We didn't manage it in either of the games I've played.
Created:
Posted in:
Mahabharata looks like a Hindu thing. I wonder what inspired the theme.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
You can set an infant up for adoption; you can't do that with a fetus.
Well you might have a 0.0001% chance of dying in a car accident on the way to the adoption agency. Plus child support is not optional.
Wherever they draw the line (if it's not at 0%, 50%, or 100%) is totally arbitrary. Lets say they place it at 5%. Why there? Why not 6% or 4%?
Because having a line somewhere is necessary for feasibility. Why is the voting age 18? Why not 17 or 19?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
And this belief would probably turn off virtually every pro life women from the pro life ideology
Maybe some of them, but I think most pro-life women would have a cutoff somewhere above 0%. I think most of them understand that a line would need to be drawn somewhere if the zygote is a person. Raising a child or paying child support may have a 0.001% of causing one's death indirectly, but few people would say that child abandonment shouldn't be a crime.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
If that's the case, then lets say a woman is pregnant and there is a 45% chance the woman dies without an abortion.Should she be allowed to get an abortion?I don't know how a pro lifer can answer no to that.
They could use a pretty basic utilitarian framework for that. Assume that if the mother dies, the child will die as well. On utilitarianism, a 55% chance of two people surviving is preferable to a 100% chance of one person surviving.
Not to say that we should blindly accept utilitarianism, but that's one way that a pro-life person could arrive at such a conclusion.
They should just change their name to, "Pro Zygote" if they are willing to give a woman a 45% chance at death to save a zygote. If someone is anti cancer, then we don't call them "Pro life", we call them, "anti cancer" because it's the type of life that matters (whether cancer patients or zygotes).
Pro-life people typically consider zygotes to be persons and cancer cells to not be persons. "Pro-life" is referring to the lives of diploid human organisms, not human cells. Maybe that's a vague label, but so is "pro-choice."
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
Well, we're talking in hypotheticals, and I'm willing to entertain one for the sake of argument.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
I think most pro-life people would disagree with P1 as written. Change it to "abortion should be legal at least if the pregnancy is a significant risk to the mother’s life." Pro-life people might have different opinions on what "significant" means. Most would probably set the cutoff around 50%.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@cristo71
Think of the old sitcom “Everybody Loves [comedian’s name].”Think newer to the site, religion forum dweller.
Is it this person?
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
The left is consistently utilitarian.
Doesn't really explain their position on abortion. They'd probably be using population utilitarianism to justify having children, and at that point increasing the number of people born by one probably outweighs bodily autonomy. The analogy I see commonly used on the left for abortion is that individuals shouldn't be forced to donate a kidney, but the utilitarian solution would be that they should be forced to donate a kidney. And personhood wouldn't matter because creating a person per population utilitarianism is just as good as saving someone. Average utilitarianism leads to its own set of odd conclusions that I don't think most Democrats would support.
I also think Republicans tend to be more utilitarian on the draft and warfare in general than Democrats. If you're utilitarian, personal liberty doesn't matter and you should draft people because it can lead to long-term benefits for the country. Same with harsh policing tactics and racial profiling which use utilitarian justifications for violating personal liberty.
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
not all too painful given the pleasure it brings in addition to the pain
Doesn't AUP not care about pleasure? Or is it just utilitarianism by another name?
Created:
-->
@TheUnderdog
So do the democrats (the AUP ethos)
I'm not sure how such a major party could have a consistent ethos when its members disagree regularly. Also, most Democrats are not antinatalists, despite that being an AUP proposal.
Libertarians are probably the most consistent, particularly anarcho-capitalists. Probably communists as well, or really any kind of extremist.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
Even within large cities, people tend to congregate with their social class. Big cities have richer areas and poorer areas.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheUnderdog
Which group is around all three more? I think liberal areas have more trans people but higher-income areas have more Republicans. Texas and California both have a lot of undocumented immigrants.
Created: