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@IwantRooseveltagain
That's irrelevant to our discussion of whether Biden is doing a suboptimal job. Trump never did that, so it doesn't affect his numbers.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Mexico is part of North America
Central America is part of North America.
up from Covid ending
How? Covid ending improves the US economy to the status quo; we should compare Biden under the status quo to Trump under the status quo. You're assuming that all the people who left America during covid would turn right back around, and that's not how migration patterns work. And besides, they can only get back in due to ineffectual border security.
doesn’t get credit for the immigrants who left when the COVID
The equation I used doesn't give him credit for those.
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@Sir.Lancelot
I thought that was a myth. Which alts?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Trump had the same number of illegal immigrants in the country as Biden
That's not how rate of change works. If they went down from covid and up from Biden, we have to compare that to how many and how fast immigrants entered the country under Trump.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Mexico is part of North America
Central America isn't an official continent, and Mexico is included.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
How so?
Add the dip to Trump's number and set that as the total for his first three years of presidency.
Trump: (1.5+1.7)/36 = 0.0889 million/month
Biden: 1.7/13 = 0.131 million/month
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@IwantRooseveltagain
If he had shot people trying to cross the border and border crossings decreased
He didn't, though.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Their economy sucked before, during and after Covid.
There are levels of scale here. Mexico is a second-world country. Pandemics can have devastating effects on their economy. It can certainly do worse than the status quo.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
The short lived decline was associated with Covid and nothing else.
Even if you assume that (and there's little reason to), accounting for migrants per month puts Trump way ahead.
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@Sir.Lancelot
He was entertaining at times, though.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
11.4 million illegal immigrants in the US under Trump and 11.4 million immigrants under Biden
That's picking one point in each of their presidencies, which is not good statistical practice. Per your source, "To place the 1.7 million growth in the total foreign-born population over the last 13 months in perspective, in the 48 months of the Trump presidency (January 2017 to December 2020), the total foreign-born population increased by 1.5 million."
botching the federal response to COVID which led to a massive recession and 16% unemployment thus causing immigrants to leave the struggling US economy
Covid hit Central America way worse, so that's already an untenable link. Not great to rely on speculation when the data is against you. Also, I already said I wasn't defending Trump's immigration policy as "good", just saying he was more effective at enforcing border crossings.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Link says it grew more under Biden in 13 months than under the entire Trump presidency.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Trump is hardly the only example, and my point isn't even that his policies were good. Even without child separations, it's possible to enforce the border much more strictly than Biden is doing. I don't even love strict immigration policies, but the hypocrisy of Democrats being mad about an influx of immigrants annoys me.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
haven’t provided the resources
Illegal immigration was much lower under Trump.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
the President enforces them
Except he's not enforcing immigration laws. That's the complaint.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
This is not migrants doing anything wrong.
Agreed. Republicans are not criticizing migrants, they are criticizing the Biden administration for its handling of the border.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
What’s your source for this comment?
NBC; see link.
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@oromagi
Would a species that intelligent need to use trickery rather than force?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Your argument would benefit with the addition of sources. Remember that the plural of anecdote is not data.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
He didn’t tell them, hey go walk across this bridge and the cops will give you all jobs
You've yet to provide evidence that the government is systematically lying to people to get them on buses. It's simply true that they have more opportunities in sanctuary cities.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
using human beings
Getting them to sanctuary cities is helping them. You could say MLK used humans simply as tools for political stunts, but that's an inaccurate and twisted way of describing his impact on civil rights.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You think Blacks are poor because they are an inferior race
*sigh* One day, I hope you judge people by the content of their character instead of by the color of their skin. "Blacks are poor" is a loose generalization and not a great way to describe individuals.
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@Sidewalker
it's a political stunt
A lot of things can be described that way. Regardless, I think it will be a net benefit, regardless of the intentions of the people doing it. Sit-ins were a political stunt, but they influenced public policy.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
when the census reports that most black families in Texas have a household income below the median
I don't use group averages to judge individual members of that group.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
So did they turn themselves in or not?
They were set free, after which most do not return.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Do you think the census bureau only documents people’s race?
I'm referring to the statistics you cited.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
systematic and systemic racism for generations
Many groups have been historically oppressed, even very recently. You can't attribute every discrepancy to that. The only prominent examples of systemic discrimination in America are affirmative action, which discriminates against Asians, and the selective service registry, which only enlists men. You should mostly be concerned with those.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
to you, the census bureau is a racist organization
I don't judge someone's identity based on census bureau statistics. If you'd like to bring up statistics, we can discuss crime rates, but I think don't think people should be judged based on their race.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Then the authorities release them with a court date to return.
Yes, that's the ineffectual border policy a lot of Republicans have a problem with. I don't happen to mind loose immigration laws, but I don't mind the busing either.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Democrats view minorities as disadvantaged, underprivileged.
What a condescending mentality to have. At least a lot of Republicans believe minorities don't need special assistance to do as well as white people.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
They turned themselves in to the authorities, dog
Not the hundreds of thousands Biden is letting in, and that's kind of the point these governors are making.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
They (as a statistical body)
That's how racists measure things.
I see, racism doesn’t exist in your world.
Systemic racism does not exist, barring affirmative action. It requires discriminatory laws by definition. You probably mean institutional racism, ad it's doubtful whether that exists on a large scale against whites. A lot of polls show whites (as a statistical body) view other groups more favorably than the inverse.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
no notice to local authorities
How do you think they come across the border, dude?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Are black families in Texas just like everyone (every family) else?
I think so, because I'm not a racist, and I judge people as individuals.
how do you explain systemic racism?
How do you explain the Tooth Fairy?
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@Sidewalker
do you supporct this practice
I support very liberalized immigration, and I support the busing. My hope is that if sanctuary cities show they are willing to take in more immigrants, legal immigration quotas will increase. I'm annoyed that a lot of Democratic politicians seem to be against this practice—it could be a huge opportunity for both sides to come to some agreement about increasing legal immigration. The negative reaction makes me think a lot of Democrats aren't actually very interested in significant immigration reform.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Do you know how much an AR-15 costs?
He said black, not poor. I'll just say that this reinforces a lot of stereotypes about how Democrats view minorites.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Ronald Reagan
Somehow I suspected that your only example would come from 30 years ago.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
I found one source alleging that 16 migrants were lied to, though it doesn't say by who. (A lot of people coming over the border are lied to as well—I think a lot of Republicans would like to see Biden enforce the border more strongly.) I see a lot of Democrats complaining that there aren't enough resources o go around, or complaining that the migrants come unannounced. They're beginning to sound a lot like Republicans did not too long ago.
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@Sidewalker
I'm surprised that any Democrats are against this, at least the ones in support of immigration. I'm not trying to generalize here, but there are a surprising number of Democratic politicians who support immigration but oppose the busing of migrants to sanctuary cities.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
political stunt
Is migrating to sanctuary cities a political stunt? I was under the impression they welcomed everyone.
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@Lemming
I suppose dueling wouldn't be very fun without guns 😉
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Off-topic, but I miss RM's brutal honesty.
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@Lemming
I've seen a lot of Democratic circles accuse Republicans of opposing gun rights when it comes to minorities, but the importance of arming minorities is a consistent talking point on the right. I'd be glad that both sides seem to agree, but when Republicans do advocate for giving guns to minorities, a lot of Democrats seem to backtrack and argue that it makes them unsafe. (With the exception of Marxists, who are probably more pro-gun than most conservatives.)
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@Sidewalker
They're getting the migrants for free. Honestly, I'm baffled as to why Democrats are against this since it seems like the whole point of sanctuary cities.
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@IlDiavolo
Pope Francis said he would baptize aliens. I suspect we're due for another crusade anyway.
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@FLRW
It does not follow from that premise that the Green New Deal is good economics, since a lot of it has nothing to do with either of the things you mentioned. It wasn't originally a climate policy at all.
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@Sir.Lancelot
@AustinL0926
There's some subreddits that might be a good source for dedicated users interested in debate. That said, they might not like spammers, and there's a big cultural barrier to the DART style of debate. I'm not sure how we're promoting, but Reddit may allow targeted ads.
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@Best.Korea
I enjoy you, but I think this conversation will probably end up going in circles. Agree to disagree, if that's fine with you.
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@Best.Korea
If you are going to add your words to the Bible
They're in the bible already, via the verses both of us have linked to.
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@Best.Korea
"not ready for love" can be understood in a way of "not wanting love"
"Ready for" and "wanting" are different terms with different definitions. It's clearly associated here with age.
It merely talks about israel as a nation
It's an analogy; hence, it can be describing two things at once.
does not even suggest that love means sex
Love is required for marriage and marriage is required for sex, per biblical standards.
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