Sir.Lancelot's avatar

Sir.Lancelot

A member since

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Total posts: 1,007

Posted in:
The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Conservallectual
Conservallectual has volunteered to debate any of you on politics, race, and religion if you are out an opponent.
Recruitment was 100% successful.

Also, I'll be back later to respond to you guys.
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Dr. Hotez is a coward for not debating RFK Jr.
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@Savant
The Famous American pediatrician “Peter Hotez” has a net worth of $40 Million. According to various online resources (Wikipedia, Forbes, Bloomberg), the most famous American pediatrician Peter Hotez estimated net worth is around $40 Million.
When your net worth is this big, 1.5 million is a token's worth. Peter probably doesn't need a handout from some moron.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@TheApprentice
There must be implementation of affirmative action policies to address gender disparities in traditionally male-dominated fields, such as STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics). (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
I’ll take the Con stance.

Additionally, if possible, I’d like to put out a reservation request. If no other debates interrupt us, and the moderator allows me to switch topics, would Bella3sp be interested in debating on the topic of religion as part of the curriculum? After your current debate, of course.
I got no objections.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Bella3sp
@Devon
(TRT) Transgender individuals should have the right to self-identify their gender without requiring medical or legal interventions. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.) 

All debates must be 3 or 4 rounds. Voting time is 1 week. Max character limit is 20,000.
Devon or Bella may create the challenge first and will go with the standard judges.: Myself, whiteflame, Mps, and Lemming.
Unless either side wishes to request different judges.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Devon
No, I can arrange to put you two against each other. I just need confirmation that Bella wants to make the switch.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Bella3sp
@Devon
If you choose to debate Devon, I would have to temporarily switch you to Transgender individuals should have the right to self-identify their gender without requiring medical or legal interventions. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.).

But it's up to you.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Slainte
Thank you for being part of it.
Couldn't have done it without you guys.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Slainte
Both.

If someone in the Tournament chooses your topic. You will be matched against them.
However, if no one does. You will issue an open challenge abiding by the criteria of the rules and wait for a random person to accept.

If you win, then you are awarded the points of the topic. However, if the random person wins, you just won't be awarded the points. The random person will not get any points because they're not an actual competitor in the Tournament.

Which one would you prefer?
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The Round Table: Entry Stage

Race & Ethnicity
  • Race-conscious admissions policies should be administered in higher education institutions to promote diversity and address historical inequalities. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
AustinL0926 - Con
  • Controversial historical monuments and statues that symbolize racism and oppression should be removed. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • Cultural appropriation is harmful and should be actively discouraged. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • The implementation of reparations for historically marginalized racial and ethnic communities is necessary. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.)
Religion & Politics
  • There must be a separation of religion and state in all aspects of governance. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • Religious institutions should be taxed similarly to other organizations. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • The teaching of religious studies is necessary in public schools as part of a well-rounded education. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
Bella3sp - Con
  • The government should oppose the use of religious exemptions in laws that infringe upon the rights of marginalized groups. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.)

International Relations
  • There should be a global ban on the production and use of autonomous weapons systems. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • Economic sanctions are an effective tool for promoting human rights and democracy in authoritarian regimes. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • Increased international cooperation is required to address the global climate crisis and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • The government should advocate for the establishment of a supranational governing body to oversee global financial markets and regulate multinational corporations. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.) 

Gender Studies
  • The recognition of gender-neutral pronouns and the use of inclusive language is essential in all public and private institutions. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • The implementation of gender quotas in political and corporate leadership positions will achieve gender equality. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • There must be implementation of affirmative action policies to address gender disparities in traditionally male-dominated fields, such as STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics). (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • Transgender individuals should have the right to self-identify their gender without requiring medical or legal interventions. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.) 
Devon - Con

Environmental Economy
  • Transitioning to a green economy is essential for long-term environmental sustainability and economic growth. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • There must be implementation of a carbon pricing mechanism, such as a carbon tax or cap-and-trade system, to incentivize businesses to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • There should be a shift towards a circular economy, where resources are recycled, reused, and waste is minimized, to promote sustainable consumption and production. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • Governments should provide financial incentives and subsidies to promote the development and adoption of renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind power. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.)
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
Religion & Politics
  • There must be a separation of religion and state in all aspects of governance. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • Religious institutions should be taxed similarly to other organizations. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • The teaching of religious studies is necessary in public schools as part of a well-rounded education. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
Bella3sp - Con
  • The government should oppose the use of religious exemptions in laws that infringe upon the rights of marginalized groups. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.)

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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Bella3sp
Do you prefer Pro or Con on the subject?
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Lemming
And Lemming, one of my other judges. Last to be tagged.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@SkepticalOne
@whiteflame
@Mps1213
@AustinL0926
@TheApprentice
Tagged just in case.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
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@Slainte
@YouFound_Lxam
@Bella3sp
@Devon
@jamgiller
Update.
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The Round Table: Entry Stage
Welcome, competitors.

The end of June is approaching which means The Entry Stage has officially begun. 
Here are all those involved in The Round Table Tournament so far.:
  1. YouFound_Lxam
  2. jamgiller
  3. Bella3sp
  4. Devon
  5. Slainte
  6. SkepticalOne
  7. AustinL0926
  8. TheApprentice

Here are the Judges I have chosen.:
  1. whiteflame
  2. Mps1213
  3. Lemming

Here are the rules.:
  1. There will be Five Categories. There will be four topics listed per category. Each topic is worth a certain amount of points. The more points assigned to a topic, the harder it is. And the longer response time.
  2. To qualify for the Finals, debaters must obtain a minimum of 20 points.
  3. All debates must include parenthesis (TRT) at the beginning and you will be required to link your debate in this forum. They must also be Standard and set to Judicial Decision.
  4. Competitors in this tournament may not be judges. The standard judges are the ones mentioned above, but if you wish to go with a different choice for judges, consult with me first.
  5. Mention below which topic you’d like to choose. Only four people at a topic at a time. Opponents will therefore be randomized instead of chosen. 
  6. All topics are on-balance.
  7. All debates must be 3 or 4 rounds. Voting time is 1 week. Max character limit is 20,000.
  8. One topic at a time. No debating two topics at once.


Race & Ethnicity
  • Race-conscious admissions policies should be administered in higher education institutions to promote diversity and address historical inequalities. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • Controversial historical monuments and statues that symbolize racism and oppression should be removed. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • Cultural appropriation is harmful and should be actively discouraged. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • The implementation of reparations for historically marginalized racial and ethnic communities is necessary. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.)
Religion & Politics
  • There must be a separation of religion and state in all aspects of governance. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • Religious institutions should be taxed similarly to other organizations. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • The teaching of religious studies is necessary in public schools as part of a well-rounded education. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • The government should oppose the use of religious exemptions in laws that infringe upon the rights of marginalized groups. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.)

International Relations
  • There should be a global ban on the production and use of autonomous weapons systems. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • Economic sanctions are an effective tool for promoting human rights and democracy in authoritarian regimes. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • Increased international cooperation is required to address the global climate crisis and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • The government should advocate for the establishment of a supranational governing body to oversee global financial markets and regulate multinational corporations. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.) 

Gender Studies
  • The recognition of gender-neutral pronouns and the use of inclusive language is essential in all public and private institutions. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • The implementation of gender quotas in political and corporate leadership positions will achieve gender equality. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • There must be implementation of affirmative action policies to address gender disparities in traditionally male-dominated fields, such as STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics). (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • Transgender individuals should have the right to self-identify their gender without requiring medical or legal interventions. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.) 

Environmental Economy
  • Transitioning to a green economy is essential for long-term environmental sustainability and economic growth. (20 points. Max Time - 2 weeks.)
  • There must be implementation of a carbon pricing mechanism, such as a carbon tax or cap-and-trade system, to incentivize businesses to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. (15 points. Max Time - 1 Week.)
  • There should be a shift towards a circular economy, where resources are recycled, reused, and waste is minimized, to promote sustainable consumption and production. (10 points. Max Time - 3 days.)
  • Governments should provide financial incentives and subsidies to promote the development and adoption of renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind power. (5 points. Max Time - 2 days.)

Something very important. If you win or lose a topic, it becomes off-limits and you cannot debate it again. The Finals start August 10th.
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Mormonism vs Islam: Debate
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@BrotherD.Thomas
I'll tag you and drop the link to the debate if he ever accepts.
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Dr. Hotez is a coward for not debating RFK Jr.
I picture the actual debate looking a lot like the conversation between Dr. Carl Hart and Bill O'Reilly.
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Mormonism vs Islam: Debate
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@Path2Paradise
Tigerlord has announced he is dropping the debate.

Taking his place, if he agrees. Will be Path2Paradise.
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Mormonism vs Islam: Debate
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@DavidAZ
No.
Despite having been involved with the Church in my early teens, I rarely do anything for them now or even attend.



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Mormonism vs Islam: Debate
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@Yassine
@Public-Choice
@YouFound_Lxam
@tigerlord
@DavidAZ
The Judges.
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Mormonism vs Islam: Debate
My debate is with Tigerlord.
This thread will be posted, so when the debate is published, everyone can find it.
All the following judges will be tagged as well.
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Ocean Gate did not want to hire white people
So you’re a greedy, power-hungry grifter using your political influence to pull strings so that the middle-class buys this bullshit? 

Get real. 
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Does this scare anyone else?
Speaking as a mostly carnivoristic omnivore.

It's probably more ethical than the organized serial genocide of animals that our slaughterhouses regularly take part in.
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Debate with Nyxified over transgender identity
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@Nyxified
This discussion may perpetuate for some time and you may find yourself hashing it out with people in the forums who aren't even involved in the actual debate itself or that you don't want involved which could be a bad thing because you didn't show up here to debate them, so doing so will spoil what arguments you're going to use.

Public-Choice has approved majority of the judges with some speculation of who else he wants on.
You've expressed some disapproval for some of the judges, so if you create the challenge first, you'll have more control over who you want on the Voting Council and can avoid wasting time arguing with people whose opinions don't matter all that much.

That said, here are the possible judge arrangements you can go with. Public is likely to agree with any of them, but he can raise objections if he disapproves with any.

  1. Most objective. Me, Slainte, Savant, whiteflame, *WeaverofFate.
  2. Second most objective. Me, Slainte, Savant, Bones, oromagi.
  3. Most even (Biases, non-biases.) Bella3sp/oromagi, YouFoundIxam, Barney, TWS.
Ignore anyone derailing their thread with their biases against transgender ideology.

I edited this to include WeaverofFate to arrangement #1.
Weaver and whiteflame are the site's two best objective voters. I can personally vouch for Weaver especially. Everyone already knows who whiteflame is.



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Debate with Nyxified over transgender identity
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@Public-Choice
Ok, so how about Sir.Lancelot, bella3sp, and whiteflame?

Sir.Lancelot sides with you, bella3sp sides with me, and whiteflame is a mod and has a lot of experience being a voter,  so he can be the "kennedy" of our court lol
Who decided I sided with Nyxified?

I don't have a strong opinion on this subject, or any opinion at all for that matter.
Because I don't care about it.

That said, I'm 100% enthusiastic about judging this debate, even if I couldn't care less about the subject matter.
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We must ban books.
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@FLRW
No, I think he is applying for a job at rondesantis.com.
Ron DeSantis is just unoriginal.
He needs to come up with his own ideas instead of stealing mine.
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Debate with Nyxified over transgender identity
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@Nyxified
@Public-Choice
@Bella3sp
Based on that, Bella3sp has my vote for judge. 
But if you guys choose Bella, you have to choose SkepticalOne to keep it balanced. 

Under no circumstances are you to make Best.Korea a judge. 
I mean you can if you want, I just don’t suggest it. 
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Debate with Nyxified over transgender identity
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@Nyxified
@Public-Choice
@YouFound_Lxam
@Bella3sp
Probably just leave the current judges as me, Slainte, and Savant. (Maybe SkepticalOne)
If you guys need more judges, then here are my two choices.: Bones and oromagi.
(Bones will be biased towards Public, oromagi towards Nyx, but both are objective voters either way. It balances out.) 

Perhaps leave RM and TWS out of this for separate reasons. 

RM- Because he’s too biased and unreliable to vote objectively. 

Despite TWS’s strong conviction on the subject, he can be an objective voter because of his votes in The Tournament. I’d  consider bringing him in, but the mods delete his votes too frequently that I’m unsure his judgment would have any effect on the debate itself. 

Aside from oromagi and Bones, my last two picks are YouFoundLxam and Bella3sp.: 

  • Bella3sp is the more likely of the two to vote more objectively, but she’s also strongly biased towards Nyxified. So idk. I don’t think she would vote objectively, but take my opinion here with a grain of salt. 
  • I have no faith at all in YouFoundLxam’s ability to remain unbiased. He would definitely vote for Public. 


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We must ban books.
We should be banning books. 

Books are a threat to Western Culture because they promote critical thinking, open-mindedness, and independent thought. 

These are all virtues that we, as a Society, should openly reject. 
Libraries threaten the Status Quo and they must all be shut down in accordance. Prompto!

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Debate with Nyxified over transgender identity
How precisely would you 'treat' autism?
By not assuming it is a mental illness that needs to be fixed.
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Debate with Nyxified over transgender identity
No comment.

Everything about this debate is wrong. Everything.

It is the only mental disorder where the delusions are deeply, truly encouraged to the point society and even science bends backwards for it.
Says the guy with autism. 
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Debate with Nyxified over transgender identity
/in.
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Let's actually do something
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@ADreamOfLiberty
A Rodent for President.
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Let's actually do something
Strange question.
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Let's actually do something
Yeah but I am usually not a funny guy, this time I was funnier than you by far. You pointlessly tried to ridicule me back.


I will admit something though, I could be into a hot woman in some kind of cat suit or dog suit (but not fully onesie, want belly and skin all over showing i mean facepaint and ears etc). Bunnies are lame to me though, not sure why.
Don't worry. We're not judging you.
There's conventions for you to Yiff freely.
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Let's actually do something
defending someone who genuinely fucks animals just to one-up me is a bit odd.
No idea who said person is. If the allegation is true, then he's a weirdo.
Not defending him, I'm just insulting you.
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I found a news article that lists DART as the top debate website
That's the site that led me to join this site in the first place.

Let's also pray that the title of this post is false because if it's true, then debate as a whole is dead.
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Let's actually do something
@ADreamOfLiberty
I don't think that's a dog. Sorry.
Perhaps that's why you're not into them.
Maybe your type is someone with a catchier fursona name.
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Doesn't it just get frustrating and boring to have politics as a hobby/passion?
Most passions/hobbies grow boring after a while. This is the Burnout stage and the biggest plateau because people stagnate. It takes willpower to overcome it. 

Frankly, I’m bored of all the Pro-Life/Pro-Choice, Religion/Atheism, and Transgender debates. There’s nothing remotely interesting about these same repetitive subjects. 

Where are the interesting topics at? Let’s talk about Race, Sci-Fi, Movies, Capitalism, Socialism, Dictatorship, Anarchy. I like the thrill of genuinely researching fascinating topics that are actually intellectually stimulating. 

Not this boring shit that everyone likes to talk about. If I see one more post about gender discourse, sexuality, abortion, or religion. I’ll go insane. 
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I'm baaaaack
Welcome back!
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If anybody cared what I think, take a look. If not, stop reading what I think.
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@Nyxified
In any case where somebody sees something I say as being ' a bs rationalization(s)', I'd like to see them show me in a formal debate exactly where I went wrong. Not that I'd expect to win any debate where I'm arguing for trans people given the bias of the website.
I'll vote on the debate to mitigate the potentiality for vote corruption.

If you make it Judges' Decision,
Me, Savant, and Slainte can all agree to judge. It's unclear what their biases are and their personal feelings on the subject, but I know that they will vote objectively.
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If anybody cared what I think, take a look. If not, stop reading what I think.
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@Kaitlyn
I think posts like these are the real reason people wanted you gone, and I don't mean that in the sense that they were justified, but rather that these kinds of topics create a lot of upset people and controversy.
I believe it has more to do with the civility or lack thereof in the forums. Right-wingers are sometimes unfairly attacked for holding views perceived as hateful (Even friendly people like greyparrot catch scrutiny.), but TWS's fights with everyone have probably not helped his image much. So now everyone dogpiles him because hating him became the popular thing to do.

(I'm definitely not a saint, as Rat-Man is referring to me when he includes the following paragraph in his post.):

I am unsure what people think I'd say or where I'd stand. It seems everybody presumed I'd be like Wylted and Badger. I told you all from the start, I am pro-freedom, Wylted is not. If you think that was just pretty words, you're wrong. This website has been a shithole just like DDO was. The Weekly Stupid was cyberbullying, it's just most of those he mocked were people who never watched the show so there was no conflict. I don't want to dig shit up or go into how much of a bully that individual was as it is not about him. It is about DDO and the culture. There was a locker-room high school bullying culture that's returning here and has always been here as an undercurrent.
With that said,
TWS may have made a few anti-trans ideology threads in the past, but he hasn't made a consistent of habit of frequently posting transphobic rants to establish a reputation as a person who hates trans people. That's more YouFound_Lxam's title.

They may share the same or similar beliefs, but TWS's thing was people wrongly assuming he is a white supremacist and that's what he became known as here. His disagreements with oromagi, Sidewalker, Roosevelt, and Rat-Man over issues of race probably cemented this belief.

Whether Wylted actually believes the claims/conspiracies he makes is impossible to determine. But the fact that Wylted regularly posts for Shock Value makes his positions too exaggerated to be authentic. And it certainly raises a few questions.
  • If VP Bootlicker hates people for being racist/transphobic, why would he choose to be close friends with someone like Wylted? The answers are either Bootlicker is a hypocrite with no consistency or that Wylted isn't really racist or transphobic.
  • If Wylted is genuinely an anti-semite, how could he be close to someone like whiteflame? Someone who's openly Jewish.
I feel like a lot of this site (me included) are too quick to make judgments about who people actually are and so it's easier to dismiss their arguments rather than take them seriously and engage in an actual debate.
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Freedom of Speech vs Censorship
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@oromagi
@PREZ-HILTON
How do we feel about oromagi as President?

He's great as a mod, but there's so much more he could do as President.

The problem is.:
  • Mods are Enforcers, with no actual ability to bring meaningful change because they are limited only to what the CoC/Rules allows them to do. There are too many restrictions which prevent them from allowing their personal feelings getting in the way. Which is a mistake, because people like Barney and whiteflame have great vision.
  • The President exists as a mediator to guide the site in the direction that works best for the community and is the balance that stops the mods from abusing their authority, or hold them accountable if they are not doing their job properly.
  • Oromagi is a visionary with great ideas. oromagi sees there is a problem with the unrestrained bigotry/extremism that is flooding the site and knows exactly how to stop it.
  • Oromagi has the brashness that's required for the position. He has criticized the mods in the past. Oromagi has openly created threads where he critiqued the mods for not valuing democracy and for failing to abide by decisions they've made for Elections.
Oromagi was offered the position of moderator in the past, but he turned it down. He only accepted the role when supadudz stepped down.
If he wants to continue being a mod, he should be, but the Presidency would give him more power to enact this change.

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Let's actually do something
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@badger
@TWS1405_2
It's like sex, ADOL. Your brain's a maze to be traversed towards orgasm or dopamine injection. You've carved out pathways. Not so easy to make new pathways. Now if truth really is your ultimate end, maybe, but who has truth as an ultimate end with so much else to get hung up on. So I'll point out to Kaitlyn that she's adopted and mad at her genes and feeling inferior and just wanting to make someone hurt. Because that's her truth. It's the maze she's lost in. It's the best thing anyone could do for her to point that out. Anything else is banging your head against a brick wall. That or walking through your own maze. 
It's kind of sad that badger is trying to make up for a life of nobody knowing who he is.
This thread is the most attention he's received from anyone.
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If anybody cared what I think, take a look. If not, stop reading what I think.
Lmao. No.

Wylted's problem during The Presidency was he never took it seriously. (I never assumed he would anyway.)  Tyranny was never the concern and neither was the possibility of Freedom of Speech being abolished.

You on the other hand,
are a Walking Persecution Complex.

You take everything too personally and create imaginary enemies out of nowhere. You trash everyone, but can't seem to handle when it's done to you. And all of these symptoms would have reflected in your leadership if you were The President.
Wylted was just the safer choice.

  • Accusing oromagi of vote corruption and claiming you were going to declare war on him.
  • Insulting Wylted during the Election and claiming you were going to make him 'feel fear.'
  • Claiming you were going to 'tame me' and then running to the mods to claim I was bullying you when you were shit-talking me.
  • Accusing Ramshutu of bullying you and then likening him to Genghis Khan.
  • Calling Wylted transphobic when you yourself have made transphobic threads.
Badger's presence on the site is like a ghost. Nobody really believes he exists.
The Tyranny Tirade is him assuming he has any actual power.

Still.
Any of us would gladly take that weasel over you.
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Let's actually do something
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@badger
Showing skepticism at someone's loss is not on the same level as believing said loss happened and mocking them for it, no matter how detestable you find either one.

Before we get down to MEEPs or however we're going to do this, I think this post warrants an immediate ban: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8938-floyd-and-the-fatal-effects-of-fentanyl-when-mixed-with-other-illegal-substances?page=2&post_number=59 We can decide on if we'll let him back or whatever, but that post is vile. Dunno how he got away with that in the first place. 

He should be banned for gross inhumanity. I can't find the CoC now, but that shouldn't be so controversial.
You are attempting to sling mud from whatever dirt you can find, hoping that it'll stick by incentivizing a community to lynch TWS for a petty drama that took place months ago.

Let's not forget, you did worse.
What you ultimately justify the site doing to TWS, you justify everyone doing to you.

Are you suggesting we should hold you to the same standards you're apparently applying to everyone else, or is it reserved specifically for people you're threatened by?
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Freedom of Speech vs Censorship
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@PREZ-HILTON
He is basically just the conservative version of Roose
That's not a very accurate comparison.

TWS is just a Karen who sometimes uses artificially-inflated vocab.
Roosevelt is someone who tries to troll, but can't seem to generate words more complex than 'retard' or 'dummy.'
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Freedom of Speech vs Censorship
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@DavidAZ
Disagreements/Debates will still happen because the leftists will still infiltrate the threads by the right. And vice-versa. 

This rule would just stop the derailing of healthy discussion into full-on extremism and allow for more meaningful conversations to take place. 
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The Round Table Tournament Signups
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@SkepticalOne
Yes. 
The Entry start date is to be very soon. 
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Freedom of Speech vs Censorship
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@PREZ-HILTON
Despite their bold views and tendency to start forum arguments, TWS and Kaitlyn are very intelligent people with a lot to contribute. 

If they started debates with topics of their choice. No doubt it would be controversial. 
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